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   Trying to meet yous on "middle ground"...
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Stegfucius
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Trying to meet yous on "middle ground"...
« on: Sep 14th, 2008, 3:31am »
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... even though it may be too late, and I'm not even talking about all the bullshit; I'm talking "logistically" at this point with the season already underway. BUT, technically, "officially", with the kickoff of Week 2's games still pending, we still could make it under the wire. Even if not, it still may not be too deep into the season for you all to consider sticking with a "true" GBRFL format and "the Gridiron"...
 
So, the question is, would you guys like to stick with an authentic GBRFL format? If the answer is yes, I can work with yous a little bit here... Jeff has graciously permitted me to use his CBSSportsline account to access the sortable stats so as to run the GBRFL (for further details, click here: http://www.fantasyfootballer.com/cgi-bin/theGridiron/YaBB.cgi?board=56;a ction=display;num=1181325562). THANK YOU, JEFF!!! In turn, but, honestly, in any event, what I'd be willing to do for yous FOR FREE, because it wouldn't be too much sweat off my brow as I have to do it for the GBRFL anyway, is provide you with a GBRFL spreadsheet workbook WITH THE STATS ALL IN IT along with the games ALL SET UP (all I would need is you all's team numbers) so all yous would have to do is input the lineups, a task which Jeff and Jamie had done/helped me with over the last three seasons, anyway. The only thing I will have to spend a little extra time doing initially, which I am willing to do without charge or bad feelings, is set up the initial spreadsheet workbook for The Deuce League. Once that's done, every week, after I finish configuring and drop the stats into the mother-league sheet, I'll convert it into The Deuce League workbook and post it via this board for whomever to download. Now, this is contingent on when I hear back from yous all, but I could have the Week 1 sheet to yous by as early as Sunday night. Just PLEASE do note that Monday is my LOOOOOOOOOONG day (I leave at 7:00 a.m. and don't get home until about 10:30 p.m.). So, it's either Sunday night or, after then, Tuesday. Now, again, someone's going to have to input the lineups, and you guys are not going to have me running a web site for yous with, most notably, a lineups submission form and me objectively, yet expertly (in terms of this format), taking care of weekly transactions for yous, so yous have to deal with that somehow. I don't think any of these factors are preclusive, however. I think they can all be overcome... without even having to fudge a thing because of the limitations of league-management services. The web site, the standings, results, rosters and transactions pages could ALL be run off this message board. It won't be fancy-dancy, but it'll be on "the Gridiron". Inputting the lineups each week is doable as Jeff and Jamie showed. Lineups could be submitted by e-mail or private message here on "the Gridiron" to some dummy account set up for that sole purpose (where the "Call Back" feature could be used as a check) or even set through some league-management system. Free-agents and how to deal with Week's 1 and 2 are the sticky "talking points" yous would have to figure out how to deal with, although I think the latter is easily overcome in various ways [as long as people are willing to "give" a little bit and think in terms of the "bigger picture" of the league and its direction, i.e. (back) out of the sea of cookie-cutter, run-of-the-mill league-manager-run leagues, and not just in terms of two measly (sets of) games during a single season]. It's just a matter of having an open mind and recalling that love you "had", have for this, if NOTHING ELSE, UNIQUE site with its quirky, yet intriguing, owner.
 
Now, PLEASE don't balk just because you've "moved on", and PLEASE don't READ INTO the timing of my proposal. It has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with ANYTHING other than the fact that Gino's and my life has been turned upside-down and inside-out for the better part of the last two months, but we are, alas, finally almost settled in in Nor Cal. Really think this through. I think what you guys decide to do here is more "critical" than it might appear at a moment's glance. That's all... I'm actually sorry that this couldn't have been tended to in a more expeditious way (and maybe that will shed some light on why I needed such a supposedly/apparently "exorbitant" amount of cash going into this year; I KNEW how over-the-top inconvenient this all was going to be for me this late July/August/early September; case in point, I just finished up the mother league's Week 1 results a few hours ago), but, also, I have to say that I am dismayed at how my non-responsiveness during this time was misinterpretted, let's say, "ungenerously" by (a core of) you guys. Gino and I literally haven't had much time to sniff our assholes the last two months. But, that's then. This is now. It is what it is. I am offering now what I am offering now. And, I don't think it's that bad... of an olive branch. At least, PLEASE don't beat me with said olive branch... ...
 
Anyway, do get a move on this... Time IS of the essence here, obviously...
« Last Edit: Sep 14th, 2008, 1:36pm by Stegfucius » Logged
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Re: Trying to meet yous on "middle ground"...
« Reply #1 on: Sep 17th, 2008, 11:04pm »
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I think as a group we are going to decline at this time. We will ride out year over at our new haunt. Thank you though.
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Re: Trying to meet yous on "middle ground"...
« Reply #2 on: Sep 18th, 2008, 2:06am »
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And, what about the board here?  No need, right?
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Re: Trying to meet yous on "middle ground"...
« Reply #3 on: Sep 21st, 2008, 6:27am »
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Well, with the message board I'm sure you all's new haunt provides and you all's CONSPICUOUS absence, I am safely guessing that this here is ancient history to you all, and this board is safe for demolition. Ultimately, unless I hear some kind of contrary response here very soon, I'm just going to go with the two I had received...
 
on Sep 12th, 2008, 1:44pm, MordecaiCourage wrote:
... but it's looking like we probably wont need to use it. ... If it's a problem for you to maintain it then I would just zap it if it was a bother.

 
on Sep 12th, 2008, 4:47pm, BarnabyWilde wrote:
Delete the message board. We don't need it.

 
... and proceed accordingly.
« Last Edit: Sep 21st, 2008, 1:48pm by Stegfucius » Logged
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Re: Trying to meet yous on "middle ground"...
« Reply #4 on: May 25th, 2009, 5:27am »
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How come not one of yous ever thought,... "GOBS" of cash aside, i.e. neither that which I was hemorrhaging nor that which I was requesting...
 
"From roughly July 15th to September 15th, when fantasy football is at its absolute height and there is a ton to do, Steg's life is going to be TOTALLY UPSIDE-fuckin'-DOWN,... only to finally get sort of 'settled down' in his family's new digs just in time for the birth of his and Gino's FIRST CHILD within a couple months (it turned out to be five weeks), which is right as he heads into finals??? The guy's REALLY up against it here (again, I'm setting aside, for argument's sake, the small matter that now I was obviously going to be paying for you all's good time, to the evident tune of -$222 for 2008, which is to just ignore the time spent),... is it no wonder he is actually offering up some way to save the league???"
 
Or, at least, not one of yous ever expressed it... either to me personally or, better yet, here publicly. It still astounds me... even just from the "human" side of it all. I hadn't ONE "friend" amidst yous... The best that could be mustered up was some point-of-fact, from-on-high telling-ME-the-way-it-WAS, heartless response.
 
Anyway, STILL just getting things off my chest... You guys came to mind vis-a-vis other things I'm working on here and contacts I've been making as of late. Fact is, I enjoyed fantasy football last season. To me, it's just A SHAME it has to be said that I did so "notwithstanding you guys, on the one hand; not withstanding you guys, on the other, nor even not with-standing you guys, unfortunately, for there was no one left for me to stand with." I hope it was all "worth it". For me, truth be said, again regretfully, it absolutely was.
« Last Edit: May 25th, 2009, 12:26pm by Stegfucius » Logged
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Re: Trying to meet yous on "middle ground"...
« Reply #5 on: May 28th, 2009, 2:10am »
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Steve, I don't even know how to respond to this post or even if I should. But I am going to try. I really find it hard to believe you still harbour such negative feelings towards the GBRFL2 group. Everyone understood that there was a cost involved for you both financially and time-wise. The fact did not (actually could not) be missed! You certainly made those facts known every opportunity you could. That in itself was fine, people will generally oil the squeaky wheel. Some of us did, some of us did not for various reasons. The number one reason that I can tell you that the squeaky wheel did not get oiled in this case (or at least to the substantive level you were seeking) was because of the "way or the manner" in which you called this group out while you were seeking help. We got it. But you pounded it and pounded it, and always you put a negative spin on the situation. You even told people who were giving that their contributions were too meager!! That's a slap in the face that I don't think you still get to this day. Your angst is showing still to this day. It's really rather sad to see someone not being able to get  past the past. Forgive and forget, forge forward, don't hold a grudge Steve.  
 
You stated that the timing was poor for you because Monica was on the way, papers were due, a move was taking place, and you had to carry the complete burden of fantasyfootballer.com. Has it ever occurred to you that everybody here probably has similar issues going on also? You looked at your friends as enemies because your perception was (and is) that we were standing by watching you drown while we could have thrown a drowning man a float. Who says life issues are yours exclusively? That is a pretty narrow observance of the life condition I think.
 
I think you wrongly stated that you had no friends amidst us. The so called heartless response was not heartless at all..in fact it was a let your "yays be yays" and your "nays be nays" response. Exactly the type of response that was (and hopefully not still) necessary at the time. We could not argue that issue with you Steve and come out on the other end feeling that we were even heard. Your point was always heard and placed in a position of utmost promenance.  
 
Do you really think that 10 people got together one day and decided they were leaving because there was going to be a possible cost invoked? Not the case here Steve...in fact was never the case at any point that I am aware of..never even spoken amongst the group. The point of aggravation came from the ever increasing suggestions of unloyalty, questioning friendships, intellectual brow-beatings, and just plain bad feelings that you had rendered unto us. You can drive a person or two away with certain attitudes, hell, we all can do that in a fit of rage...but Steve, when a whole group of friends makes an exodus, I believe it to be a pretty clear sign of where the problem mainly was. I don't think you did, nor do I believe you have yet grasped the concept that YOU played the major role in this whole incident.  
 
Steve, neither do I write this to be a bur in your side nor to cause you grief. I count you amongst friends, I truly do. As your friend, I think you should consult your closest-knit friends and have them HONESTLY shed some insight on the way you handle people and respond to people. If you are fortunate enough to have the types of friends who will pull no punches and not just ear ticklers, then I am trusting that you will be given a gift that I would suggest you take with a humble and contrite heart and learn from.  
 
With all this being said, Steve, this is my full honest assessment of your above post...I hope that you will not find this distasteful or hurtful because of the public nature of it. I want to tell you that I think you are a genuine and honest person. I believe in what you are trying to do here with this site. It is a great idea and the concept is better than any other site I've visited. Please, be mindful of what made this site a great destination in the first place. Enough of all this, let's move forward.
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Re: Trying to meet yous on "middle ground"...
« Reply #6 on: May 28th, 2009, 4:57am »
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F U, dude... I am shaking with anger,... frustration... Get your facts straight! Something YOU can't seem to do. This is so sloppily thought through it's hard for me to believe it's not intentional, which would be downright... Mind you, I'm MUCH MORE a "paint the bigger picture" guy than a "facts" guy, BUT, when the facts are so egregiously incorrect and the gist is SO TENDENTIOUS, like it all was in your private messages to me a year ago, it's hard to swallow. I have rarely read such (unthoughtful, unthought-through in a beyond-the-surface way) bullshit in my life...
 
on May 28th, 2009, 2:10am, MordecaiCourage wrote:
You even told people who were giving that their contributions were too meager!!

 
I NEVER said that!!! Do your fuckin' homework first... Someone else says I said it, and now it's used against me here! How droll!? In any event, here we go again with the EXTREMELY "selective" memory... More of the same from the old Kenster...
 
Quote:
Has it ever occurred to you that everybody here probably has similar issues going on also?

 
Uhhh,... yea... BUT, you all aren't RUNNING THE SITE and THE LEAGUE(S) (and anticipatively paying, what ended up being, $222 to do so)! [But, I digress... Didn't I already address (and undress) this argument long ago when, I think, Jim or somebody made it???]
 
Quote:
I think you wrongly stated that you had no friends amidst us.

 
Maybe so, BUT this post is proof positive that you are (evidently, at least) NOT one of them.
 
Quote:
The so called heartless response was not heartless at all..in fact it was a let your "yays be yays" and your "nays be nays" response. Exactly the type of response that was (and hopefully not still) necessary at the time.

 
More proof in the pudding!
 
Quote:
We could not argue that issue with you Steve

 
What are you talking about? That's all yous did!
 
Quote:
... and come out on the other end feeling that we were even heard

 
Could it, GASP, be because of the inadequacy, if not downright incorrectness, of the position? But, of course not... That's not (evidently) entertained by any one of you in public or behind the scenes. What's the argument, anyway? I was bound to run the league for time immemorial...???
 
Quote:
Do you really think that 10 people got together one day and decided they were leaving because there was going to be a possible cost invoked? Not the case here Steve...

 
There we go playing mind-reader and putting words in my mouth,... in this case, thoughts in my head... In fact, the point I'm trying to make is the diametric opposite of this! It's that not one person... Awww,... fuck it! I can't do this anymore, especially when I know my interlocuter isn't even going to TRY TO get it... Moreover, the group as a whole NEVER... Awww,... fuck it! Exasperation! Anyway, no, OF COURSE, you didn't! I prompted it with my "request/ultimatum (however you choose to interpret it, generously to me or, the usual from this lot, NOT)".
 
Quote:
Steve, when a whole group of friends makes an exodus, I believe it to be a pretty clear sign of where the problem mainly was.

 
Your position is ultimately riddled with (HUGE) assumptions, of which we all know the danger. Here, the assumption, albeit a relatively small one in comparison with your "psychiatric assessments", is "friends".
 
In any event, do you REALLY think this PSYC 101 BS moves me???
 
Quote:
I don't think you did, nor do I believe you have yet grasped the concept that YOU played the major role in this whole incident.

 
OF COURSE, I did... but only insofar as I made my "request/ultimatum"... Trust me, though, you guys wouldn't have left the trough otherwise, bottom line.
 
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Steve, neither do I write this to be a bur in your side nor to cause you grief.

 
Well, know that you failed in your mission.
 
Quote:
I count you amongst friends, I truly do. As your friend,

 
With friends like you, I don't NEED enemies!
 
Quote:
I think you should consult your closest-knit friends and have them HONESTLY shed some insight on the way you handle people and respond to people. If you are fortunate enough to have the types of friends who will pull no punches and not just ear ticklers, then I am trusting that you will be given a gift that I would suggest you take with a humble and contrite heart and learn from.

 
OH, GOD... Get me a bucket... I GOTTA PUKE...
 
Here you go setting up that clever "Catch 22" on me, the natural sophistry of someone who really doesn't have an argument outside of ad hoc and ad hominem attacks. Just to be clear, it's (hypothetically) "Catch 22" insofar as there is no logical way out of calling anybody who empathizes with me an "ear tickler". According to the rhetorical "logic" here, the only people that are "not punch pullers" are going to be those who can "show me the light" of my errant ways. BUT, I DIGRESS... I am saying this as if this guy REALLY knows anything about my life outside this site... when the fact is that's ACTUALLY the problem here. REALLY knowing someone, me in this presumed case, would be the ground that would allow the "Catch 22" to be avoided. POINT BEING, THAT'S WHY YOU DON'T GO THERE... HERE!!! BUT, Ken can't help himself because he's got me allllllllll figured out. Praise the Lawd!
 
Continuing on, here you go pretending to know me again. I have INCREDIBLY CLOSE, WONDROUSLY DEEP and CRITICALLY THOUGHTFUL relationships... off this site! The problem is the medium, which a few enlightened souls have realized and confessed, DEFINITELY NOT ME, at least not per se! The level of depth I go for (in both senses of the phrase) is, as I have come to learn, just extraordinarily hard, perhaps impossible, I must admit, to pull off via this on-line, message-board medium. But, I can't help that. That's just me... and perhaps seals the ("commercial") fate of this site in the long run, I understand. Of course, it is indubitably impossible when the person with whom I am engaged is not at all up to the task, such as I have found is the case with, for example, you. In any event, though, I am "a bit" too intense for this medium. That I get! But, that's it! My personal relationships with those around me are among the most profound and highest quality you will ever find, and my general likability, let's say, I wouldn't trade. But, that's again virtually impossible to manifest in an environment like this. That said, try poppin' a private message to any one of the GBRFLers (preferably pointing him to this discussion so all tendentiousness is avoided). They range from old college/fraternity buddies to internet buds. All I have met, though. Either that or, if you REALLY CARE (to bark up this extraordinarily presumptous tree), give ME a call (you still have access to the GBRFL "Owner Information" page). Let's talk. That's definitely a better medium to get to know someone... to the degree that you presume/pretend to know me. OR, BETTER YET, JUST DON'T GO HERE!!! It is a place you should NOT go in this medium. Address my thoughts directly,... or go away! Don't just pull this (old) shit (which if you really think it through is really just confirmatory of my post) out of your ass and toss it at me...
 
In any event, the only astonishment I am expressing at this late juncture (which I couldn't contain at the moment a few days ago), which is something I cannot forget, is simply the TOTAL lack of understanding and compassion that not one of you did not exhibit... through yet another post dated here May 28, 2009... by MordecaiCourage. Praise the Lawd! And, as regards you specifically, your TOTAL ignorance of anything we discussed behind the scenes last year is mind-boggling. You evidently think by just talking through my responses to your messages and not substantively responding to them and just talking at me they are going to go away and you are going to drone me (down and) out. Well, let it be known that they haven't gone away AND the one-sided, unresponsive brow-beating has me far from down and out (in all senses of the phrase). This is so typical of... Praise the Lawd! And, any guilt angle there might be to your m.o.,...
 
Quote:
With all this being said, Steve, this is my full honest assessment of your above post...I hope that you will not find this distasteful or hurtful.

 
I don't find it to be... IT IS!
 
Quote:
I want to tell you that I think you are a genuine and honest person. I believe in what you are trying to do here with this site. It is a great idea and the concept is better than any other site I've visited. Please, be mindful of what made this site a great destination in the first place.

 
Backatchya... [As hapless as this is going to be as, though I of course know what you are getting at (the team reports, the unique activities and leagues, the analysis and discussion that went beyond the surface, the people and camaraderie that the, eh-hem, "site" drew, maybe the organization or maybe not and so on...), you haven't a clue as to whence I am coming, but I'll ask anyway...] How's about you think that one alllllll the way through there, Ken, and, moreover, its sustainability?
 
...
 
Anyway, where's that whole "splinter/log in the eye" rhetoric when it comes to YOURSELF, Ken? The DOUBLE irony... as yours I at any rate take to be a misinterpretation of the quote, which is supposed to encourage self-reflection, not necessarily dissuade judgment. But, in any event, I'll be generous and take it that you think you cannot give an inch with me (here or behind the scenes) because of your diagnosis of my "character" (or lack thereof, as you would apparently have it). In your mind, it's the bigger picture. If you give in at all to me, in your mind you're enabling me. So, you must stand firm with me... It's the only brand of "compassion" you know. Praise the Lawd!
 
on Nov 12th, 2008, 10:56pm, StegRock wrote:
And, there we are...
 
 
 
THE END!!!

 
(What a waste of my time, I know... )
« Last Edit: May 28th, 2009, 10:43pm by Stegfucius » Logged
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Re: Trying to meet yous on "middle ground"...
« Reply #7 on: May 28th, 2009, 12:47pm »
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"Squeaky wheel"...  YOU SCUMBAG!
 
...
 
Here's the kicker, the swift kick in the head that is... Personal situation last year aside, economy aside, if it were JUST the money, I almost certainly would have continued running the league(s)... as I do the site now and into the foreseeable future... in the reddest of red days for me and my family, mind you {probably to the full roughly $1000 a year it costs [but at least I don't blow too much time on it relatively speaking notwithstanding this episode of arrogance, the absolute hubris of which (praise the Lawd) has my blood boiling] }.  If it were just the money, there I would have been homeless living out of a storage bin and a flea-bag hotel room hemorrhaging cash for three weeks with a 7/8-month pregnant wife, WHO WOULD HAVE GONE ALONG WITH IT ALL MIND YOU (bless her heart), all alone without family and friends in California where we've never been with a lousy, yet EXPENSIVE hotel internet connection in Good-Nite Inn not getting a lick of doctoral-level schoolwork done, YET fretting over getting the GBRFL2 updates done in a timely manner... while, say, Ken here (you know, the self-proclaimed EIGHT-time donor ) makes sure to count his Lincolns.  I would have paid, in any event WOULD PAY, for it all and (at least some of) you guys wouldn't (have) bat an eye.  What a picture,... would have done Norman Rockwell proud!  But, after all, yous deserved it, right, by way of them there weekly team reports [which I had to "officially" close down last year for, ultimately, just this reason, that is, to put it generously, the unsustainability of the situation... I (admittedly) CREATED with my foolishly thinking that genuine personal closeness and human connectedness could be facilitated in this sterile two-dimensional on-line environment (where what makes, for example, me likable in real three-dimensional life isn't easily manifest, in fact is often misconstrued... see MC's post above) and pushing the site along too fast and expecting too much from folks who were ultimately strangers; THAT is where the error in my ways lies]?  But, hey, praise the Lawd!
 
You know,... though it sort of bums me out a little, I commend Tony to some degree for having the gumption to just get outta here and not pretend to know me or like me and, moreover, NOT put me through the grinder of haughty presumptousness and tendentiousness as is done in the post above.  Praise the Lawd!
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Re: Trying to meet yous on "middle ground"...
« Reply #8 on: May 28th, 2009, 6:11pm »
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on May 28th, 2009, 2:10am, MordecaiCourage wrote:
With all this being said,...

 
"Let me give you one more steaming helping...
 
Quote:
Steve, this is my full honest assessment of your above post...I hope that you will not find this distasteful or hurtful because of the public nature of it.

 
... and then say..."
 
Quote:
I want to tell you that I think you are a genuine and honest person. I believe in what you are trying to do here with this site. It is a great idea and the concept is better than any other site I've visited. Please, be mindful of what made this site a great destination in the first place.

 
Don't think I am ignoring your couple of positive comments, MC, it is just that, after you "Jigsawed" me,... call me crazy but,... I don't believe them.  Case in point, if one is not honest with himself, how can he be honest with others?  It doesn't make sense.  It's impossible, and it's why your niceties here at the very end of your post are incredible (or at best indicative of the not well thought-out nature of your post overall or a not so well veiled attempt at mollification).  It's just the vanilla fluff on top of the shit sundae you're serving me up. Praise the Lawd!
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Re: Trying to meet yous on "middle ground"...
« Reply #9 on: May 28th, 2009, 10:40pm »
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You can say anything you want...and you will of course tell the story how you want it ...that's nothing new here. The spinning does not change your stature one inch, it is simply your side of the story and that in itself has validity. What you once again fail to see, or care to see for that matter, is that there are two sides to every story. You continue to validate your position and curse the other side without really listening. What does change your stature however, is that you are mocking my faith in Christ..and that belittles you, not me. I do digress a bit here and tell you this, because this is what you are trying to provoke from me...and I'm in a generous mood so I'm gonna give you the pleasure of watching a man of faith falter a bit in this statement... If we were face to face I seriously doubt that you would have said FU and/or called me a scumbag for one simple reason and that reason is this...I would have kicked your pasty ass! There..enjoy it Steve...consider it a gift.
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Re: Trying to meet yous on "middle ground"...
« Reply #10 on: May 28th, 2009, 11:37pm »
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on May 28th, 2009, 10:40pm, MordecaiCourage wrote:
You can say anything you want...and you will of course tell the story how you want it ...that's nothing new here. The spinning does not change your stature one inch, it is simply your side of the story and that in itself has validity. What you once again fail to see, or care to see for that matter, is that there are two sides to every story. You continue to validate your position and curse the other side without really listening.

 
For the UMPTEENTH time,... BACKATCHYA, man!  But, actually, at least I respond point-by-point.  Your saying that I'm spinning it and just stating what I see and what I don't see doesn't make it so.  Best I can tell, per your description of things, you're at least dug in just as deep, so what do you expect?  Perhaps there is just a mirroring effect going on here.  Thing is, again, at least I address you all's/your posts POINT-by-POINT, which is at the very least indicative of dealing with the other side.  You rarely, if ever, indicate that you have even READ my posts, just like in this post of yours right here!  Oh, right, reading ain't really your thing...  I almost forgot.  For you it's just verbal diarrhea and throwin' punches.  Great!  Why do I waste my time?
 
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What does change your stature however, is that you are mocking my faith in Christ..and that belittles you, not me.

 
I am not belittling Christ per se.  I am belittling your brand of Christianity or at least your "representation" of it (see below, folks).
 
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If we were face to face I seriously doubt that you would have said FU and/or called me a scumbag for one simple reason and that reason is this...I would have kicked your pasty ass! There..enjoy it Steve...consider it a gift.

 
Sound familiar...
 
on Dec 2nd, 2003, 5:25pm, Tony_O wrote:
(T)here is no way in hell you would talk to me that way in person. You might say you would talk to me that way, but after about 10 or 20 words the blood from your lips, nose and gums might change the way you deliver your message.

 
There are the two most professed Christians that have ever darkened the door of "the Gridiron"!
 
Computer - "$500."
Internet connection - "$29.99 per month."
Membership on "the Gridiron" - "FREE!"
Seeing a couple of hardcore Christians admit violence is all they got left - "Priceless!"
 
The attack on me and who I am as a person, who you do not really know in the slightest, versus an F U and a little name-calling,... if you think one is better than the other, you're lost.
 
...
 
But, I digress...  What is it exactly that you want me to entertain, Ken?  Don't give me the arrogant psychiatric analysis of who I am as a person.  Just tell me, if you can, in clear and precise terms what it is that I am not getting... about you all's/YOUR position.  What is it that I don't see?  What is it that I haven't addressed or addressed in a way that can be reasonably refuted?  Or, better yet maybe, more to the point, what would you have suggested I should have done last year?
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Re: Trying to meet yous on "middle ground"...
« Reply #11 on: May 29th, 2009, 3:45am »
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And,... or, if that's too much and since we are at a stalemate,... as you would have everybody believe, because of me,... what do you make of your crediting yourself with more than double the number of donations you actually made (an easy thing to check, mind you), and, moreover, more importantly, how that affects your attitude (in relation to all this)?
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Re: Trying to meet yous on "middle ground"...
« Reply #12 on: May 29th, 2009, 5:34pm »
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Well steve-o I did tell you that I would gift that nugget to you...called you out ..said I'd kick your ass...told you you could use it in your crusade against "my brand of Christianity" so I'm glad I could oblige you there. I guess my brand of Christian is the same as everybody elses...imperfect....and thank God my imperfections were known to God even before I was born... that's why He knew we (my particular brand of Christian) would need a Saviour who could live the perfect life so that I (the particular brand of Christian) could find acceptance through Him. I am a work in progress Steve..never claimed I wasn't.....never would presume that much. However I do find it interesting that you enjoy bashing people like myself..and that you would even drag Tony into this, who has been silent on the issue because he has moved on from it. You can say what you want from this point on I don't particularly care. As for my Priceless admission of violence...I'll own it and say that if Christ Himself were standing by my side and you said those ugly things to me...I'd still bloody your nose. You didn't out me as being an imperfect Christian..God convicted me of that years ago....so your opinion on the matter means nothing. I'm tired Steve.....I am sorry we can't see eye to eye on ANYTHING...I'll move on and never "darken" the door of The Gridiron again. Good luck with it, I sincerely hope it sees a revival. I'm done.
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Re: Trying to meet yous on "middle ground"...
« Reply #13 on: May 29th, 2009, 5:47pm »
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on May 29th, 2009, 3:45am, StegRock wrote:
And,... or, if that's too much and since we are at a stalemate,... as you would have everybody believe, because of me,... what do you make of your crediting yourself with more than double the number of donations you actually made (an easy thing to check, mind you), and, moreover, more importantly, how that affects your attitude (in relation to all this)?

  Oops forgot to answer this.....don't want to leave ya hangin' .  I do recall the discussion and honestly just threw a number in there that sounded about right...the  truth of the matter is, I don't keep track of what I gave or didn't give..I didn't research it before I threw it into the argument..simply an oversight on my part. I am sure you will label it as a "convenient" oversight for my particular brand of Christianity. I remember seeing that I misquoted myself at that time and should have clarified my position I guess, but I was extremely weary of the fight and I was just done with it.....like I am with this whole arguement we've got going on here now  Steve. I'm just tired of it all as you should be also. That's why I can't understand why you are still harboring this resentment against the old GBRFL2 crew. I thought it was over. You gave the ultimatum and we moved on..you were heard and the majority agreed we wanted to go a different route...think it malicious?? You shouldn't have. All points were noted, good and bad and the decision ws unanimous to leave. It was not intended to hurt you, in fact it was agreed that we would not use the boards here for the league out of respect to your feelings. That is all I got for you Steve.
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Re: Trying to meet yous on "middle ground"...
« Reply #14 on: May 29th, 2009, 6:40pm »
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on May 28th, 2009, 2:10am, MordecaiCourage wrote:
Do you really think that 10 people got together one day and decided they were leaving because there was going to be a possible cost invoked? Not the case here Steve...in fact was never the case at any point that I am aware of..never even spoken amongst the group.

 
on May 29th, 2009, 5:47pm, MordecaiCourage wrote:
You gave the ultimatum and we moved on..you were heard and the majority agreed we wanted to go a different route...

 
...
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Re: Trying to meet yous on "middle ground"...
« Reply #15 on: May 30th, 2009, 8:35am »
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(It's somewhat of a shame that you took off before I made this post, which, if I could have gotten around to it earlier today/yesterday, I would have. Ah, well... In the bigger picture it doesn't matter. But, I REALLY do hope you read this one carefully and thoroughly, Ken.)
 
But, first...
 
on May 29th, 2009, 5:34pm, MordecaiCourage wrote:
(I)f Christ Himself were standing by my side and you said those ugly things to me...I'd still bloody your nose. You didn't out me as being an imperfect Christian..God convicted me of that years ago....so your opinion on the matter means nothing.

 
I get a real kick out of Christians who use their Christianity (in this case Christ Himself, which is really kicking it up a notch) to justify (or even endorse?) their bad behavior (I had a few Catholic buds at Catholic U., a whole nother brand of Christianity, mind you, do the same thing,... e.g., when it came to their on-line poker "exploits"). Bottom line, you wouldn't have bloodied my nose without Christ first looking at you with scorn or at least disappointment for your prior (uncalled-for) post to me. But, I digress... This post is not meant to be as argumentative and caustic as it is to be engaging and conversational (which, of course, is sort of irrelevant at this point)... What I just stated will not be irrelevant to the rest of this post (in fact this will all sort of come back around full-circle), BUT it's still fighting words which I want to get away from.
 
With that said, you wouldn't have bloodied my nose at all... because I wouldn't have made those comments (but not for the reason you claim) because you wouldn't have posted the kind of reply you did to my original post here because I would have been expressing my thoughts and feelings to you FACE-TO-FACE, and the whole matter would have taken on a different character. We would have gone about things in the more personable, thoughtful, mindful, reasonable, thorough, immediate (unrehearsed), interactive, heartfelt, humane, and so on, manner that talking face-to-face or even over the phone permits, BUT which this medium surely does NOT (especially if things are not being highly perused and considered before being responded to). The whole time I was giving not just myself, but both of us, an out: it's the medium, stupid (so to speak). The problem, at least to this "blown out of proportion" degree, isn't really you or Tony or me; it's the medium. Furthermore, though, I was, am willing to take it one step farther by way of, vis-a-vis this medium, taking the brunt of the blame by pointing out that my particular analytical, introspective and "bigger picture" mode of communication is obviously too intense, philosophical and, bottom line, demanding for this medium (which, mind you though, a few people, such as C-Dub, bgsgfan and maybe sk, Primer and Philly, have come to realize and come to terms with and maybe even come to have an appreciation of). To wit, this admission provides the basis for, for example, you to say as a conversation ender of sorts, "Steg, you're too much (for me)," and in the process communicate something both critical and complimentary (and complementary if you think about it). The ultimate point is that if we were speaking face-to-face, not only would nobody's nose get bloodied or teeth get knocked out, but we would understand one another to an exponentially greater degree and probably, in stark contrast, end it all in a hug.
 
That having been said, I do not care about you as a Christian. I care about you as a person. I'm a here and now guy. In this plane of existence, we are people first. All the rest just follows. I readily admit that I am just using your Christianity against you because I am unimpressed by how it is represented by a great proportion of its followers, which I typically associate (partially correct or not) with a (born-again, Bible-banging, Baptist or at least Protestant, in any case, Americano) brand of Christianity I take it that you represent, which ULTIMATELY has little to nothing to do with making people better people, more thoroughly thoughtful, mindful, considerate, caring, open-minded, reasonable, human-hearted, ethical, compassionate, understanding, reflective, learned and so on, more effective and valuable if you will, in the here and now. Let me give this context... I had written the following in threads on "the Sidelines"...
 
on Mar 17th, 2008, 1:02am, StegRock wrote:
I stumbled upon this VERY supportive... nugget while perusing D.C. Lau's "Introduction" to his translation of the Mencius... As per what I've written above, I wouldn't express this in quite the way Lau does, but the point is surely well-taken... by this "crusader"...
 
"One great difference between moral philosophers in the Chinese tradition and those in the Western tradition is that the latter do not look upon it as their concern to help people to become sages while the former assume that that is their main concern. Western philosophers deal only with the problem of what morality is. They leave the problem of how to make people better to religious teachers. In China, however, there has never been a strong tradition of religious teaching, and the problem has always fallen within the province of the philosopher."

 
on Jul 25th, 2007, 11:27pm, StegRock wrote:
In the Far East (we're not talking India, and remember Buddhism is Indian), traditionally, culturally and historically, ethics and morality is NOT based on religion. There is no religious system which provides for you ethical maxims, like the Ten Commandments. Religion and belief are used more for dealing with the unknown, especially death, and, as my wife puts it, "wishing". Its most common manifestation is in the way of ancestor worship and wishing for good fortune. (Incidentally, this combinational dynamism is what makes Tibetan Buddhism so fascinating and useful because, while being very religiously Buddhist, it has a certain humanistic bent when it comes to ethical conduct, which is very evident in the works of Tenzin Gyatso, the current Dalai Lama.) Religion does NOT act as the basis for acting in the world together with others. Religion and, moreover, belief are not the ground for ethics and morality. [In fact, making religion/belief(s) the ground of action is my definition of "belief system".]
 
In the West, traditionally, culturally and historically, this is quite the contrary. Religions and belief systems are precisely what provided us with our morality and ethics. The only way the western mind has been trained to have a moral and ethical sensibility is through religion. In fact, we call people who don't live according to their religious/religion's moral beliefs hypocrites. Now, there are differences from western religion to western religion, but the "Thou shalt not kills" overlapped enough that we could get by. However, and here's the rub, this fledgling country comes along (America) and, with good, but imperfect intentions, declares the separation of Church and State. It is no wonder how, in a short 225-year span, we have a country in rather extreme moral decay. At least, we all recognize the steady downward trend in morals from generation to generation. (How many times have you had that conversation about "how it once was", probably hearkening back to a time before you were even born???) This psychological process of being told what's right and wrong and what to do in a religious, "Ten Commandments" type of way has made us reliant on rules and laws to tell us what and what not to do, and that's why the Constitution has become God in America. I see it right here on "the Gridiron". Rules are not seen as guidelines. They are seen as commandments. Whenever a situation arises that requires thinking outside or beyond the rules and forces us to confront morality and ethics in its more raw form, head-on, I watch the moral compasses spin out of control (mine used to too). But, it's not a great mystery. How couldn't an ethical sensibility of a people have been lost and morals undergone decay when we have gone and separated OUT of our leadership model that which has been the source of moral and ethical understanding and guidance in our cultural heritage for millennia?
 
Again, summed up, there's a people whose morals and ethics are bound up in religion. That same people creates a society that separates out religion from governance. It's no surprise that that people is going to lose its moral and ethical way. WE ARE THAT PEOPLE!!!
 
Now, mind you, I'm not saying that (Western-style) religion is the best source of moral conduct or that we should work backward and try to rescind our separation of Church and State. What I'm saying is that we are at a VERY unique juncture in human history where the wrong move could mean eventual, inevitable oblivion to America, BUT the right move would mean America's reclaiming its great status in the world. Western-style religiousness could enrich the Far-eastern way of believing, and a Far-eastern understanding of ethics could enrich the western way of acting in the world.

 
Be that as it may,... you see,... I have an uncle with a fantastic sense of humor, Uncle Mel, born-again Baptist, not particularly generous, but very pious, sugar-coats his post-conversion misdeeds, but not his pre-conversion transgressions, not so great with the facts, but all about the Truth, but in any event, a basically great, fun guy,... doesn't know me for shit, but is always praying for me and Gino and now Monica all the time. Fact is, his brand of Christianity has been nothing but an obstacle, an obstruction actually, to his getting to truly know his sisters, one of whom is my mother, and all of his nieces and nephews. This is because he is treating us as objects instead of subjects. If you are interested in what I am talking about, check out this essay of mine: http://www.internetstitute.com/Self-finalpaper.pdf. Now, his nuclear family is huge, popped out a bunch of kiddies back in the day, and I suppose he has deeper, more meaningful relationships with them... as they by and large have stayed within the flock, and he is certainly very popular at whatever church he attends. But, outside of one trip I made down to Florida about five years ago checking out grad-school options (there it was the University of Miami), where I thought inroads were made, on the phone all he really does is talk AT me. He is not listening to a word I say... because it's not a testimonial, for which he is waiting literally sometimes on bated breath. He does the same thing to my mom, who at this late point in life fawns over him, her older brother, because she hearkens back to a man who, before his "conversion", was just as good if not better of a man, at least to his siblings and parents, who he basically left behind, during hard times mind you, after he "found Christ". But, despite the fact that he alienated everybody in his birth family, people look up to him as somewhat of the patriarch of the family (while nevertheless still whispering that they could ultimately do without all the "Lord" rhetoric), and, at any rate, he's always praying for everybody. We'll have the usual brief conversation once in a blue moon, but daily right around the birth of Monica when he really seemed to be going for the testimonial, but, in any event, IN REALITY that is, where I listen to him, he won't listen to me YET AGAIN, I'll go along with it, and he'll tell me how he's praying for me, Gino and Monica.
 
Now from this point, please hear me out... What I want to say back is how about getting to really know me as a person first, so you know who I am and what I want out of life and, thus, what to pray for! Otherwise, you are just praying for what YOU want for me and my family! But, let's think this through... He does have two legitimate retorts. For one, in terms of the here and now he could say back that he can only pray for that which is consonant with his beliefs, which he takes to be righteous, and on and to which he is, respectively, thoroughly and absolutely sold and wholeheartedly and firmly committed, and, since his prayers are, at any rate, directed to and to be answered by his God, he just has to assume/hope that what I get out of life, regardless of what I want, is consistent with His (and, I think, his, my uncle's that is) plan and, more tangibly on the ground, the Christian life as he understands it. In other words, his prayers have to simply be that we turn toward the born-again Christian way of life. Now, that's "a little bit" YIKES to most of us, granted (probably not you, Ken), but it's not illogical or, more importantly, internally inconsistent. But, my response would simply be how do you know that what I am going for in life is not consonant with that way of life of yours! In fact, I would argue that, in good part, at least with respect to the here and now, IT IS! As such, in what respects it is and to what degree it is could then be the focal point of your prayers. THAT would be a more genuine way of praying for me (that would be a way of REALLY praying for me), though it would take the work of getting to know me for who I am which requires acute listening and true back-and-forth dialoguing (not "necessarily" the Christian mission). I take that to be a walk-off homer on my part.
 
But, Uncle Mel has one other (soteriological) response to my query about what he's praying for for me and my family, namely, our salvation. And, let's face it. That's the bottom line. This would be his better initial response. He's better off keeping it in the after-life and not in this life. After all, this brand of Christianity is not ultimately about this life, so why not leave the matter of providing a model for ethical conduct, acting and being together with others, in this life up to those of us better equipped to deal with it (and not just leave it in the hands of those who are ultimately not just willing to punch people in the face, but can find justification of sorts in their religion for doing so)! What I propose in no way necessarily contradicts the Christian mission. Of course going in this direction compromises the significance of the "testimonial". But, as long as my uncle is willing to give up the testimonial push, I can just be thankful to him for caring about my soul and, more importantly, doing so in a way that permits him to still be supportive of me in this life even if he still doesn't take the time to get to really know me all too deeply. At least, he won't be discouraged from doing so. So, understand that this second response of his in no way nullifies my last response to him (that is why it is SO IMPORTANT to think it ALL THE WAY through; had we just jumped to this second possible reply of his and not mentioned the first, we would have cut off our understanding at a lower level, quite literally). In fact, his and my final two responses just illumine and highlight the difference of our concerns and, moreover, more importantly, in such a way that there can be a "bleeding into one another" instead of a "water and oil" situation. My "here and now" (which is my primary concern and, THUS, what I have "expertise" in because I devote the time/my life to it) does not have to be in conflict with his "hereafter" (which is his primary concern, and, THUS, what he has "expertise" in because he devotes the time/his life to it) and vice-versa. What were once two sides can now be seen as one continuum. The only thing really holding us up is his holding on to the "testimonial". He lets go of that and the walls obstructing a true relationship between us come tumbling down. He'll have a reason to listen to me, and I, him. The problem, though, is that he is stuck to a belief (okay so far) that he takes as ultimate (still okay, but...) and, therefore, he has all the answers (uh-oh) at least insofar as the answers to all else are rendered moot or, at best, trivial and not really worth pursuing (OH NO). Don't worry about reading and thinking so much; just get your butt to church on Sunday... alllll day! Now, mind you, a solution to this problem of belief does not come naturally to me because it is not an illness from which my parents and I suffered. However, (I have come more and more to realize that) it is apparently what underlies my academic project of the "suspension of metaphysics" via Confucius, Wojtyla and Gyatso. Because a prescription doesn't come naturally to me, I have to go and figure it out. ... So, I press on for my Ph.D. in Philosophy, Piled Higher and Deeper.
 
The End!
 
In very short, Ken, (correctly or not) I totally see you in this light (via this medium), have for some time. Like with Uncle Mel, I see the piety more than the generosity (in discourse and...) as well as the sugar-coating and selective memory or at least the loose and easy tendentious treatment of the facts, and I have found that you engage with me in an absolutely analogous, if not same exact, way as my uncle. WITH THAT HAVING BEEN SAID, we have an extra obstruction between us, the computer screen. I am willing to blame it ALL on the medium and even my over-the-top level of communicative intensity vis-a-vis the medium. I cannot, however, accept an ad hominem assailment on my character such as the one you dished out. If you are willing to blame the misunderstandings that take place here on the medium as I am, we're good. That said, if you want to engage with me on a serious issue, especially when it's a tender matter like the one here, which I am obviously still brooding over to some degree a year after the fact, do so thoroughgoingly or at your own risk, preferably/advisably not at all, and this is not for any other reason than your honoring the degree to which you "DO" know me... vis-a-vis the medium (that is, instead of taking liberties with the ways in which you DO NOT know me, i.e. in real life). But, again, this is all apparently moot given your decision yesterday to delete your account (which I think was done in haste, but... it is what it is). Nevertheless, this write-up is valuable to others who want to stick around around here, and I find that this is a philosophically important topic that is worth my while to hash it out just for myself.
 
Bottom line, generally speaking, I have DEFINITELY come to learn through experience and observation here over the last seven years that (blaming) the medium is always a (fairly genuine) way out of contentious discussions... taken too far, gone bad. In fact, I believe it to be a MUCH MORE genuine way out than agreeing to disagree, which is an admitted cop-out, whereas, blaming it on the medium is just admitting the problematic communicative reality of the situation and the fact that at a certain point it's preventing headway in a given (contentious) discussion to be made. I wish I would have had this insight before. I am glad I have it moving forward, though, and on into the eventual next generation on "the Gridiron".
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Re: Trying to meet yous on "middle ground"...
« Reply #16 on: Jun 5th, 2009, 6:48pm »
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This...
 
on May 28th, 2009, 10:40pm, MordecaiCourage wrote:
You can say anything you want...and you will of course tell the story how you want it ...that's nothing new here. The spinning does not change your stature one inch, it is simply your side of the story and that in itself has validity. What you once again fail to see, or care to see for that matter, is that there are two sides to every story. You continue to validate your position and curse the other side without really listening. What does change your stature however, is that you are mocking my faith in Christ..and that belittles you, not me. I do digress a bit here and tell you this, because this is what you are trying to provoke from me...and I'm in a generous mood so I'm gonna give you the pleasure of watching a man of faith falter a bit in this statement... If we were face to face I seriously doubt that you would have said FU and/or called me a scumbag for one simple reason and that reason is this...I would have kicked your pasty ass! There..enjoy it Steve...consider it a gift.

 
on May 29th, 2009, 5:34pm, MordecaiCourage wrote:
Well steve-o I did tell you that I would gift that nugget to you...called you out ..said I'd kick your ass...told you you could use it in your crusade against "my brand of Christianity" so I'm glad I could oblige you there. I guess my brand of Christian is the same as everybody elses...imperfect....and thank God my imperfections were known to God even before I was born... that's why He knew we (my particular brand of Christian) would need a Saviour who could live the perfect life so that I (the particular brand of Christian) could find acceptance through Him. I am a work in progress Steve..never claimed I wasn't.....never would presume that much. However I do find it interesting that you enjoy bashing people like myself..and that you would even drag Tony into this, who has been silent on the issue because he has moved on from it. You can say what you want from this point on I don't particularly care. As for my Priceless admission of violence...I'll own it and say that if Christ Himself were standing by my side and you said those ugly things to me...I'd still bloody your nose. You didn't out me as being an imperfect Christian..God convicted me of that years ago....so your opinion on the matter means nothing. I'm tired Steve.....I am sorry we can't see eye to eye on ANYTHING...I'll move on and never "darken" the door of The Gridiron again. Good luck with it, I sincerely hope it sees a revival. I'm done.

 
... or this...
 
on May 30th, 2009, 8:35am, StegRock wrote:
With that said, you wouldn't have bloodied my nose at all... because I wouldn't have made those comments (but not for the reason you claim) because you wouldn't have posted the kind of reply you did to my original post here because I would have been expressing my thoughts and feelings to you FACE-TO-FACE, and the whole matter would have taken on a different character. We would have gone about things in the more personable, thoughtful, mindful, reasonable, thorough, immediate (unrehearsed), interactive, heartfelt, humane, and so on, manner that talking face-to-face or even over the phone permits, BUT which this medium surely does NOT (especially if things are not being highly perused and considered before being responded to). The whole time I was giving not just myself, but both of us, an out: it's the medium, stupid (so to speak). The problem, at least to this "blown out of proportion" degree, isn't really you or Tony or me; it's the medium. Furthermore, though, I was, am willing to take it one step farther by way of, vis-a-vis this medium, taking the brunt of the blame by pointing out that my particular analytical, introspective and "bigger picture" mode of communication is obviously too intense, philosophical and, bottom line, demanding for this medium (which, mind you though, a few people, such as C-Dub, bgsgfan and maybe sk, Primer and Philly, have come to realize and come to terms with and maybe even come to have an appreciation of). To wit, this admission provides the basis for, for example, you to say as a conversation ender of sorts, "Steg, you're too much (for me)," and in the process communicate something both critical and complimentary (and complementary if you think about it). The ultimate point is that if we were speaking face-to-face, not only would nobody's nose get bloodied or teeth get knocked out, but we would understand one another to an exponentially greater degree and probably, in stark contrast, end it all in a hug.

 
You tell me which sounds more "Christian"?!?!  Or, at least, which would be a better representation of the "Christian" way of life?!?!
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Re: Trying to meet yous on "middle ground"...
« Reply #17 on: Jun 5th, 2009, 11:16pm »
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I guess with all this "Christianity talk", there is only one thing left to say;
 
HOLY CRAP!
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Re: Trying to meet yous on "middle ground"...
« Reply #18 on: Jun 6th, 2009, 12:41am »
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on Jun 5th, 2009, 11:16pm, sk wrote:
I guess with all this "Christianity talk", there is only one thing left to say;
 
HOLY CRAP!

 
Isn't that "wholly crap"? Or, is it "holey crap"?
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Re: Trying to meet yous on "middle ground"...
« Reply #19 on: Jul 1st, 2009, 6:09am »
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I know... I'm... , one that is no longer even part of the show here, mind you, I know. But, I can't help myself based on what I stumbled across this evening...
 
on May 28th, 2009, 2:10am, MordecaiCourage wrote:
If you are fortunate enough to have the types of friends who will pull no punches and not just ear ticklers, then I am trusting that you will be given a gift that I would suggest you take with a humble and contrite heart and learn from.

 
My "friends" with whom I shared this (nonsense) were a bit puzzled by and curious about this use of the term "ear ticklers". I got the basic idea of what MC meant: "yes men" or something along those lines. However, while doing some academic research tonight, I stumbled across something,... well,... curious, if you will... If, by "ear ticklers", what was being alluded to and implicitly applied to me was what's going on at "2 Timothy 4:3" of the New Testament, then I'm afraid to say that my interlocutor here has lost all ability to think for himself, which, of course, is exhibited by the lack of point-by-point responses made by him. I guess I did not provide enough "ear-tickling" fodder. But, I digress...
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Re: Trying to meet yous on "middle ground"...
« Reply #20 on: Jul 1st, 2009, 10:25pm »
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on Jul 1st, 2009, 6:09am, StegRock wrote:
If, by "ear ticklers", what was being alluded to and implicitly applied to me was what's going on at "2 Timothy 4:3" of the New Testament, then I'm afraid to say that my interlocutor here has lost all ability to think for himself...

 
Just to clarify, what I meant by this is when a person can only think, reason in terms of or, moreover, on the terms of quotes and passages from the Bible, especially when it comes to matters philosophical, moral and/or that press the intellect. To most of us with a little more than a half a brain, the Biblical appeal almost always doesn't ring true. When those of us hear, say, "This is an example of '2 Timothy 4:3'," we think to ourselves, perhaps after a moment of pause, "No, it's not." It is this kind of mentality that has some of these people condemning Obama or the Pope as the Antichrist. But, I digress...
 
I understand what's at play, the natural urge of the human mind to make connections. The problem is the simpler and more obvious a "so-called" connection is, the greater the general appeal potentially is, and that is even among smart people because, when it comes to matters philosophical, it's not about (the) smarts (you bring to the dance); it's, on the contrary, about (taking the time and) thinking it through (in a way that you don't just rely on what you know going in). And, the greatest connection usually sought after is the one which corresponds with one's own opinion/with what one is convinced.
 
Mind you, though, by this particular interlocutor, behind the scenes I was (condescendingly) told how I was cherry-picking the good from the philosophies of the East and West and making my own religion (which was pulling me away from my Christianity). (Of course, I had to disabuse him of that last parenthetical point because, even insofar as it could be said to be the case, it surely wasn't the way he means it.) This is to grossly oversimplify and totally misunderstand my work (and, frankly speaking, the work of the serious comparativist scholar in general) and relegate it to the romantic ponderings and wanings of the undergraduate or perhaps even high school student (mind you, I've been there; my East-West comparative work as an undergrad was, not to mention immature, surely wrought with the idealism of a young man). But, people tend to relate things to others as they relate to them themselves. To wit, this interlocutor's response to my Confucius-Wojtyla essay, which I shared with you all here way back when it was selected for presentation at the annual UH Philosophy conference, was along the lines of how he liked a handful of particular quotes coming from Wojtyla and out of his philosophy. Now, MAKE NO MISTAKES... The passages Ken chose, especially those of Dr. Kenneth Schmitz, really are truly awesome. The quote from Schmitz on vertical transcendence, which incidentally I employ along with his one on horizontal transcendence again in my more recent Subject-Object essay, but I would venture to say even more poignantly, is not only intellectually stimulating, but downright touching. That having been said, he related to those quotes not on the terms given in the essay but on his own terms. Now, in and of itself, that's not that big of a deal. But, it IS when, as aforementioned, he goes on to critique my philosophical endeavors, in a somewhat condemnatory way mind you. The fact is those quotes, as great as they are, are but the details... of the premises... of the argument... of a philosophical position... of a developing philosophy. His taking my essay the way he did was (logically) okay, even though he wasn't getting the real nectar of what I was saying. Where he made his mistake was when he took the liberty of critiquing what I'm up to, which is evidently beyond the purview of his understanding... as MANY things are beyond mine. It's just that everyone prides himself or herself on being a philosopher of sorts. Philosophy, due to its becoming equated with mere opining in this Americano freedom-of-speech culture, is not commonly thought by the laity to require training like other disciplines. Unfortunately, the only way to gain an appreciation of, not only Philosophy, but this very predicament is to get trained in the field or be humble enough to exhibit a general attitude of deference and a generous inquisitiveness toward those who have.
 
But, again, I digress...
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Re: Trying to meet yous on "middle ground"...
« Reply #21 on: Dec 19th, 2009, 3:52am »
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For a myriad of reasons,... just seemed like this was the right place to post this awesome, pithy quote...
 
"We speak so stupidly about pride-and Christianity has even made us feel that it is sinful!  The point is:  he who demands and obtains great things from himself must feel very remote from those who do not-this remoteness is interpreted by those others as 'a high opinion of himself;' but he knows it (the remoteness) only as ceaseless labor, war, victory, by day and night:  of all this, the others know nothing!"
 
Gee,... I wonder which great philosopher that was...??? Think,... just spelling his surname right is an accomplishment of sorts...
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