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Topic: My team sucks ASS, and Proposed Rule change (Read 3618 times) |
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Fantasy Field General
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My team sucks ASS, and Proposed Rule change
« on: Oct 1st, 2007, 2:04pm » |
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Before i get to complaining about my team i thought of something that might of interest to our league. I do not know about you but thse injuries are freaking killing me and it seems to be killing others just as bad. I feel like the team with the least amount of injuries will win no matter how strong your team is at the start of the year.I feel last year i had no chance mid way due to all my injuries and this year alone i already have Rudi Johnson, Jake Delhome, Javon Walker,J.P Losman out. Does anyone have any interest of installing a new rule that reads something like this: When a team loses a starting player they would be entitled to pick up their back up first as long as that player is not on a current roster. For example, i lost Rudi Johnson, the following week i would have first right to Kenny Watson as long as he is not on a roster. I think with that in place it at least hedges a team in a fair way to stll compete even with injuries to their players. It is such bullshit how other teams benifit only from injuries then by draft picks and trades. It is becoming very old for me that year after year i lose players, i have no shot of picking them up in free agent and by half way through the year i am playing 1 rb, 2 wrs ect. Just a thought! Besides that, my team blows. Galloway- 1 catch 7 yards McNabb- 137 yds Willie Parker- i gave up the house for him, 37 yds Darrell Jackson-I had to play by default, 33 yds. Tatum Bell- Had to play by default, 44 yds Freaking Terrible!!
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Philosopher King of Fantasy Football Site Administrator GBRFLer Champ - '94, '99, '02, '04
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Re: My team sucks ASS, and Proposed Rule change
« Reply #1 on: Oct 1st, 2007, 6:13pm » |
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Danny, I am truly bummed out about your team. Really,... I am... I'm all broken up. In all seriousness, though, this is a can of worms, man,... that I hope I am not pushed to have to extrapolate out. I will say this... from a philosophical perspective... Very few good, objective rules are born of selfish (for the lack of a better term) perspectives and subjective experiences. We all have a TON of roster spots. Use your extra roster spots on the backups to your starters... instead of those of others.
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Red Zone Master
# 179
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Re: My team sucks ASS, and Proposed Rule change
« Reply #2 on: Oct 1st, 2007, 6:28pm » |
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I realize I'm in the Deuce, but I'll kibitz in here as I'll most likely be affected by this outcome. I am in a redrafter that does this. I think it works fine there. But in a dynastly league like this, I don't agree that people should be allowed to leave their handcuffs out there and then get them "free" if needed. I have Cadillac, Addai and Leinart all injured. OK, Leinart isn't really injured...but he's being benched for parts of games. I am OK because I'm carrying Pittman, Keith and Warner. I just think it's part of managing the team in this dynasty format.
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Fantasy Field General
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Re: My team sucks ASS, and Proposed Rule change
« Reply #3 on: Oct 1st, 2007, 9:55pm » |
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Steve, i am not the only team getting killed by injuires. DB, he has been getting hurt, Alex Smith, Lamont Jordan, Caddie Williams, this week alone. If we are trying to make this league as real as it can get, it is not any different the a backup coming in after an injury. Yes, i agree there are plenty of roster spots and you can still keep the backup if you chose to, but it sucks to keep bakups on your rosters incase of injury. I can see why you disagree because your team is being built on other teams injuried players, i.e ward, ron dayne ect. It was only a suggestion that i think should be discussed, hopefully other owners will see my point.
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Philosopher King of Fantasy Football Site Administrator GBRFLer Champ - '94, '99, '02, '04
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Re: My team sucks ASS, and Proposed Rule change
« Reply #4 on: Oct 1st, 2007, 10:15pm » |
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Danny,... think this through, brother... Think of HOW MESSY this would be... in VARIOUS ways, not the least of which would be in terms of administration. It would open a can of worms we'd never get under control. Inequity after inequity would come up and consequent sub-rule after sub-rule would have to be hammered out. And, since you took a potshot at me and my team,... let me say... You didn't think to bring this up during ANY of your THREE Championship runs... Your team's bad,... so there must be a reason, right?
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Philosopher King of Fantasy Football Site Administrator GBRFLer Champ - '94, '99, '02, '04
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Re: My team sucks ASS, and Proposed Rule change
« Reply #5 on: Oct 2nd, 2007, 2:55am » |
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Look... Seriously,... I'm not looking to stifle discussion. But, as league commissioner and administrator being in tune with league administration and the "bigger picture", I can foresee how knotty this would be on so many levels, and I just don't want to see a groundswell of support develop around a discussion that has "optimistically" spun out of control and isn't well thought through... because, one way another, it's gonna fall on my shoulders. Either, I am going to have to untie the logical knot created by a not well-thought-through discussion, OR I'm going to have to deal with the nightmare of administering and administrating the according changes. I mean... even as I try to be generous and entertain the idea, stumbling block after stumbling block enters my mind. I mean just sitting here typing this at least a half dozen problems come to mind. Of over-arching philosophical import, the whole notion seems to violate one of the league's fundamental principles, viz. worst-to-first free-agency. Just to make this absolutely clear,... I wouldn't support this no matter where I was in the standings and what my team's situation was. This is NOT a knock on you Danny when I say this, BUT I, as commissioner concerned about not just the health of my team but of the league, am always a bit leery when it comes to owners making rules suggestions based on perceived injustices happening to their own teams. In any event, I would just want you and others to put the work in that would be required for such a sweeping rule change to even be considered as well as have an eye toward efficiency in your presentations and discussion. If this is really something you see as worth entertaining, don't just throw out "random thoughts" about the matter... intended just to "sway" other owners who are in the same boat. That's just playing politics. Put together a DETAILED proposal of sorts explaining how this would work in terms of, at least, the following: lineup submissions, weekly free-agency, each position (what's the equation for receivers), determining who the "immediate" backups in fact are, severity of injury qualifications (mind you, Danny, none of your guys have sustained season-ending injuries), implications on trading, non-injury player losses (suspensions and such), the differing roster dynamics of each NFL team, and on and on and on. Mind you, I take this to be essentially rhetorical, thinking that once you even start entertaining this on these various levels the way I am, you'll realize for yourself what I know and am sensitive to here and likely throw in the towel on this... AND YOUR TEAM... ...
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GM
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Re: My team sucks ASS, and Proposed Rule change
« Reply #6 on: Oct 2nd, 2007, 6:35pm » |
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I get where you are coming from Dan but I don't agree. I want a competitive league and I think the current system insures that, by having the bottom teams getting the first shot at potential playmakers. There are a ton of additional avenues out there for you to aquire that player in question, the first being making a trade to get the first or second FA pick. I am sure currently both Steg and Cooper would be willing to do a trade. You just have to pay a bit for those trades. I did in the offseason - I gave up quite a bit to get the backup Turner from you. Granted, he has some long-term potential as well but he is a backup, nonetheless. There have been several instances when I have been screwed with injuries and you either make a trade or you try and ride it out. For me, I have won a championship with only one QB (and didn't make a move) and I lost a championship when T.O. decided to vacation for a majority of the Eagles season (and tried to make a move). In that case, I made a dumb move to get Hines Ward and Pittsburgh D and I had to give up Gore to do it. It was my decision and a bad one but it was my choice to make. I like the current system where either you make plans to get your backups on your roster or you know ahead of time if your starter or starters go down, you need to have replacements in the wings. Just because some teams are thin, I don't think they should be the first ones in line for a FA. If you are thin, fix it yourself. If not, the standings will eventually fix it for the entire league and the thin teams will end up at the bottom, with a chance to fix gaps and maybe climb up the standings. BOTTOM LINE: I am a stong NO vote to any change, unless there was a significant, amazing argument presented (and I would still need a ton of convincing).
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Fantasy Field General
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Re: My team sucks ASS, and Proposed Rule change
« Reply #7 on: Oct 2nd, 2007, 9:38pm » |
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Steve, you keep mentioning that my idea is because my team is bad. No, my team is actually very good when healthy and will NEVER be as bad as yours no matter who is injuried. This thought does not only have to do with this year, last year as well. I probably could of won or come close if McNabb did not go down. It is hard for me to give a specific plan when i really do not understand the inner makings of running the leauge. Hahn, Michael Turner was a small part of the deal, Hasselbeck is working out very well for you, especially when ALex Smith is gone for a while. Steve, Losman is gone for a long time, Jake D is probably gone for the season as well. It was just a suggestion which i never make, not a big deal. I am very happy with my team especially when healthy.
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Red Zone Master
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Re: My team sucks ASS, and Proposed Rule change
« Reply #8 on: Oct 3rd, 2007, 12:46am » |
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Danny, I hear what you are saying and I feel ypur pain. Everyone has injuries, they are part of the game. Hell a few years ago I wanted to change my name to the "all injured team", hell I think Steve may have even let me do it for a while, I can't remember. That year I think I lost 6-7 starters. This year in my league I have lost Delhomme, Westbrook, Maroney, Boldin, Andre Johnson, Calvin Johnson...you do the math...that is/was my entire week 1 starting lineup. This is fantasy football bro. You have the right to complain. We all have felt your pain over the years at various times in our fantasty football lives. Last year I lost 3 starting QBS in this league. I had to make trade after trade after trade, it sucked I know. Just suck it up make some deals and move on. I agree with what Mark said 100% with what he said above. But in this case I have some sympathy for you Danny. I propose that we make a "Danny CRAYBABYFeder" rule which is as follows: Whenever a player on Feder's team goes down with a season ending injury, or one where the player misses 1 month, 1 week, 1 practice, gets a hangnail, a bruise, a bandaid, or cuts themselves shaving, anything where mommy needs to kiss it Then Feder gets the best player...at that position of course...from any 2 other teams in the league that he wants..FREE!!!!!!! Or we could just change the rules to "positions" scoring. Now this would be where an owner would get ALL of the rushing yards, passing yds, receiving yds from 3 NFL teams. No players, just the teams stats. a total of 30 teams would be used. Then when someone wants to pickup one of the other 2 NFL teams on waivers, bye weeks and whatnot, whomever sends Danny the most cases of beer...for him to cry into...and boxes of Kleenex to wipes his tears away, would get to pickup that team off waivers. So, what do you guys thing of my proposals of the FEDER CRYBABY RULE?? We can discuss it at the next draft. My vote is a yes. Oh and Danny
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Fantasy Field General
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Re: My team sucks ASS, and Proposed Rule change
« Reply #10 on: Oct 3rd, 2007, 9:52am » |
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Wow, my SAT prep class and high school vocabulary teacher have FAILED me, cause I have NO IDEA WHAT AN "INBREAD" IS! Alex Trebek: "It is where you put your wheat and yeast, if you're a cook." Contestant: "What is INBREAD?" Alex: "Correct, you choose again." ANYWAY, I don't have a firm opinion on this situation. I lean towards Mark and Joe and Steve's position, but I'm willing to be convinced otherwise. It seems to me that the bottom line is this: shit happens -- it's fantasy football. I do completely sympathize: I just lost Deuce for the year (and perhaps for his career) after trading Plax to get Deuce. What I thought was a nice trade becomes a nightmare. On the other hand, I think Danny has a point: viz., how much more does luck become a factor when we have no protection from injuries? I'm sure you guys have hashed all this out, and if so, let me know. But perhaps, if you haven't, we could figure out SOME way to limit the ravages of (bad) luck via injuries. If not, so be it, but maybe we can give it a try.
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Gridiron Great
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Re: My team sucks ASS, and Proposed Rule change
« Reply #11 on: Oct 3rd, 2007, 10:10am » |
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on Oct 3rd, 2007, 9:52am, T-Rave wrote:Wow, my SAT prep class and high school vocabulary teacher have FAILED me, cause I have NO IDEA WHAT AN "INBREAD" IS! Alex Trebek: "It is where you put your wheat and yeast, if you're a cook." Contestant: "What is INBREAD?" Alex: "Correct, you choose again." ANYWAY, I don't have a firm opinion on this situation. I lean towards Mark and Joe and Steve's position, but I'm willing to be convinced otherwise. It seems to me that the bottom line is this: shit happens -- it's fantasy football. I do completely sympathize: I just lost Deuce for the year (and perhaps for his career) after trading Plax to get Deuce. What I thought was a nice trade becomes a nightmare. On the other hand, I think Danny has a point: viz., how much more does luck become a factor when we have no protection from injuries? I'm sure you guys have hashed all this out, and if so, let me know. But perhaps, if you haven't, we could figure out SOME way to limit the ravages of (bad) luck via injuries. If not, so be it, but maybe we can give it a try. |
| I think we have figured it out. The only way to protect against injuries is carry the back up. And since there are 22 roster spots for 14 'starters', it is possible to carry a good portion of your back ups. However, we all know that would not be wise. I am against changing the rules. The best way for a team to get better is to use the free agent process. I say keep it like it is.....
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Philosopher King of Fantasy Football Site Administrator GBRFLer Champ - '94, '99, '02, '04
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Re: My team sucks ASS, and Proposed Rule change
« Reply #12 on: Oct 3rd, 2007, 2:35pm » |
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on Oct 3rd, 2007, 10:10am, DirkDiggler wrote:there are 22 roster spots for 14 'starters'... |
| Quick fix, fellas (sorry, Steve ),... 21 roster spots (used to be 22 back in the day, though) and, ultimately, 10 starters (right? ... I'm not exactly sure what Stevo might have meant there.). | I DIGRESS...
By the way, some of the shit getting posted over here is HYSTERICAL right now. Mark's post on the other thread, and Joe and T's posts here,... and even Danny boys', though, I'm sure, unwittingly. [And, no, Danny, that word is NOT the adverb meaning "not (Jason) Witten"... That would be "unWittenly".] GREAT stuff, guys! |
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Gridiron Great
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Re: My team sucks ASS, and Proposed Rule change
« Reply #13 on: Oct 3rd, 2007, 3:27pm » |
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on Oct 3rd, 2007, 2:35pm, StegRock wrote: Quick fix, fellas (sorry, Steve ),... 21 roster spots (used to be 22 back in the day, though) and, ultimately, 10 starters (right? ... I'm not exactly sure what Stevo might have meant there.). |
| Yikes, that is what I get for trying to think at work!! Night sure what I was thinking either!!
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Re: My team sucks ASS, and Proposed Rule change
« Reply #14 on: Oct 3rd, 2007, 10:56pm » |
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I am also in agreement with Steg, Hahn and Warner. No offense to you Feder, but I think your proposal is a shitty idea. Like Hahn said, you can always trade for the free agent pick and you can back up your players instead of picking up someone else's backup. Also, how far are we going to go. And if there is no legitimate back (i.e. the running back situation in Green Bay, Houston, etc.) who do you get. Do we have to wait until the game starts and you get the person who starts the game? Basically if we go with your system, what is the use of having free agency.
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Re: My team sucks ASS, and Proposed Rule change
« Reply #15 on: Oct 4th, 2007, 10:36am » |
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I will take this opportunity to resurface a rule change which pops up every few years....The proposal of 1 or 2 IR positions, where an injured starter can be placed into one of those spots to allow roster room for his replacement or any other pick. Obviously, this brings up a need for rules so every time Chad Pennington gets a hangnail and is out for the week, he cannot be placed in IR. It has to be a "real" long term injury. This doesn't solve Dan's issue, but it helps alleviate some of the pain. I'll take 6th grade education for $200 Alex.
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« Last Edit: Oct 4th, 2007, 10:38am by Art Vandalay » |
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Philosopher King of Fantasy Football Site Administrator GBRFLer Champ - '94, '99, '02, '04
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Re: My team sucks ASS, and Proposed Rule change
« Reply #16 on: Oct 4th, 2007, 2:38pm » |
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My take on what Frank brings up is as follows... It's not an unreasonable request. It is surely doable. It is a modest change. A little extra administrative yuckiness, but,... eh,... not a biggie. But, FIRST, do note that this does NOT do anything for Danny's (alleged) "issue". It seems related, and I guess in a peripheral sense to this discussion, is, but it really addresses a different "issue" altogether. Second, from an administrative and league-logistical standpoint, I would be more amenable to just adding an extra roster spot, period. BUT,... boy,... 22 x 10 = 220! YIKES! Back when we did carry 22-component rosters, we only had 8 or 9 teams. We went down to 21 precisely because we bumped up to 10 teams. So, I guess that ain't a good idea. BUT, in any event, from a "personal" perspective, I don't know if ANYBODY in this league is suffering from a "DEAD-WEIGHT" player more than ME in Michael Vick, and I am not complaining in terms of proposing rule changes and am holding on to him and plan, at least right now, to do so for the next one or TWO years so as to see how this "situation" fleshes out. I just think a "dangly" I.R. thing just gives us MORE UNNECESSARY wiggle room. That said, if people REALLY wanted it, it's surely entertainable in a way that Danny's original proposal here is not. Just understand that one doesn't really have to do with the other. THAT said, I hope we don't just want to go tinkering with the rules because we haven't for the last two years. To me, that's a GOOD sign!
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« Last Edit: Oct 4th, 2007, 7:28pm by Stegfucius » |
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Philosopher King of Fantasy Football Site Administrator GBRFLer Champ - '94, '99, '02, '04
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Re: My team sucks ASS, and Proposed Rule change
« Reply #17 on: Oct 4th, 2007, 2:48pm » |
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Let me add this to my post immediately above... on Oct 4th, 2007, 2:38pm, StegRock wrote:BUT, in any event, from a "personal" perspective, I don't know if ANYBODY in this league is suffering from a "DEAD-WEIGHT" player more than ME in Michael Vick, and I am not complaining in terms of proposing rule changes and am holding on to him and plan, at least right now, to do so for the next one or TWO years so as to see how this "situation" fleshes out. I just think a "dangly" I.R. thing just gives us MORE UNNECESSARY wiggle room. |
| Would a new I.R. rule even be applicable to Michael Vick? (RHETORICAL QUESTION!) ... And, so (already) start the complications...
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Red Zone Master
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Re: My team sucks ASS, and Proposed Rule change
« Reply #18 on: Oct 4th, 2007, 7:01pm » |
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on Oct 4th, 2007, 2:48pm, StegRock wrote:Let me add this to my post immediately above... Would a new I.R. rule even be applicable to Michael Vick? (RHETORICAL QUESTION!) ... And, so (already) start the complications... |
| exactly my question Stegger. how about Ricky Reefer? He's not injured, but isn't allowed to play. Could he take one of the IR spots? can someone on a 4 game suspension be put in there? I think it's just a mess that will eventually lead to a "this guy is inactive for this week, so I'm sliding him to an IR spot". Rosters are already large enough that FA is slim pickens. I can't imagine if we too another 20 players out of it I'm still on the "no change" bandwagon. Part of a dynasty league is managing your team for the long haul, and part of that is ensuring you're OK if you get hit by the injury bug. Unfortunately, the injury bug is a 2 ton gorilla sometimes...but ce'st la vie
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3 straight underperforming seasons, one nitwit head coach, 2 problem child WRs, 1 collosal trade bungle....but a wild boat party with booze and hookers!!!????? Priceless.
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Re: My team sucks ASS, and Proposed Rule change
« Reply #20 on: Oct 4th, 2007, 10:37pm » |
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I think that placing someone on IR is not a bad idea, however, I definitely think that there should be some restrictions on it. In my opinion, if someone is placed on IR, it should be required that they stay on it for a certain period of time (at least 4 weeks) because that would prevent people from putting someone on IR, just to pick up someone to plug in for a week. It would definitely help teams who have legitimate injuries to their player for a significant period of time. I don't think it should apply to players such as Ricky Williams or Michael Vick who are out of football due to off the field related issues or even to those who have failed drug tests. It should only apply to people who are "injured". Also, max only 1 IR spot, not 2.
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Gridiron Great
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Re: My team sucks ASS, and Proposed Rule change
« Reply #21 on: Oct 4th, 2007, 10:44pm » |
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on Oct 4th, 2007, 10:37pm, Pakman wrote:I think that placing someone on IR is not a bad idea, however, I definitely think that there should be some restrictions on it. In my opinion, if someone is placed on IR, it should be required that they stay on it for a certain period of time (at least 4 weeks) because that would prevent people from putting someone on IR, just to pick up someone to plug in for a week. It would definitely help teams who have legitimate injuries to their player for a significant period of time. I don't think it should apply to players such as Ricky Williams or Michael Vick who are out of football due to off the field related issues or even to those who have failed drug tests. It should only apply to people who are "injured". Also, max only 1 IR spot, not 2. |
| For the record, I would definitely vote against adding additional roster spots in any shape way or form. However, if we are going to discuss this, I would vote that if you place someone on IR, they should have to be out for the remainder of the season! Policing when someone should or shouldn't be on the IR would be complicated.
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Red Zone Master
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Re: My team sucks ASS, and Proposed Rule change
« Reply #22 on: Oct 4th, 2007, 11:04pm » |
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Here gentlemen, let me help you guys out a bit. In my league we discussed this years ago and we came up with a rule that, for the most part, is fair and balanced: We have 1 IR spot, but you can ONLY use it if your player is put on the official NFL IR...out for the season. Not for a week or a month, again injuies are part of the game. This way you basically can carry him free for the rest of the year. You do not get an extra waiver pick that week you just simply use your regular picks or trade for one. With that said some teams may or may not use the IR spot/s (1 or 2), doesn't matter on amount. Therefore; it may just be simpler to add 1 extra roster spot instead of the IR thing as some guys...Danny Feder will no doubt whine about that too because some guys got to use their spot and some didn't. Oh, one more thing, these spots ARE NOT TRADEABLE in my league. Maybe this will help when we talk about it for next year. I would rather just have the extra roster spot to keep things simple. I know, I know, thank you , thank you Hey Danny :
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Re: My team sucks ASS, and Proposed Rule change
« Reply #23 on: Oct 4th, 2007, 11:55pm » |
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on Oct 4th, 2007, 10:00pm, IbdFunk wrote:I like that idea Frank! I think it would benificial for when the bye weeks start. This week i need to pick up a kicker and try to fill in for my injuried players. |
| Okay, now we have taken a complete turn from the original topic. This thread was started to discuss Feder's awful team (which from what I can tell we are all in agreement) and then to discuss Feder's awful idea for being able to be first in line for a backup IF that backup wasn't on someone's team. That died, correct? So now the discussion has moved completely away from the original topic and morphed into the IR/extra roster spot debate. This may be better suited on its own board. In addition (and this is just me), it may be wise for Frank to start the post and in detail propose his idea for the rule change. That way, everyone has a clear understanding on what is being proposed. I only bring this up because when I had the idea for extending the season out beyond week 17, Steve asked me to post the idea and open it for questions/discussions.
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Philosopher King of Fantasy Football Site Administrator GBRFLer Champ - '94, '99, '02, '04
I love ''the Gridiron''!
Posts: 19639
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Re: My team sucks ASS, and Proposed Rule change
« Reply #24 on: Oct 5th, 2007, 1:02am » |
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It's here now, Markie... We might as well just continue it here. No need for a new thread. IN FACT, I REALLY hope there is NO need for a new thread for this... if you follow...??? First off, we're ALREADY seeing all the complications here. But, MOREOVER,... guys,... pinch yourselves for a second... If we push down on "this" (alleged) "bulge" in the carpet, it's just going to create a(n alleged) "bulge" somewhere else. There's NO "ultimate justice"/"perfect system". If we increase our roster limit from an already extended 21 to a RIDICULOUSLY extended 22, straight up or by way of an I.R. spot, the complaints will then shift to the fact that there are no free-agents to pick up. Free-agent transactions will totally dry up. It's already difficult, but with another 10 players on rosters, the top teams won't be able to get anybody, and it'll be slim pickings for the bottom teams for whom free-agency is supposed to provide hope. The point is that there is no ultimately fair solution. We're just moving the bulge. In fact, in the spirit of mixing it up, legitimate arguments could be made for our cutting our rosters down to 18, 16 or perhaps even less. Or, to go more toward the total dynasty format, it be argued that we should go all the way up to 25 or so roster spots. The point is that arguments could be made, pros and cons could be pointed out for just about ANY number of roster spots. After years of playing, 21 seems VERY appropriate for our league and what we want to experience in this league. I, in a way, look at it as 20 roster spots + an (already embedded) I.R. spot. Let's not fix something that's not broken nor overcomplicate something that's beautiful in its simplicity. Look,... REALLY,... if we truly pride ourselves on having a league of exceptionally GREAT owners, then there is going to be turnover in the standings. If our "high opinion" of ourselves is accurate, then it is a virtual logical consequence that teams are going to have ups and downs. I mean, if that doesn't happen, then our "high opinion" of ourselves is, must be put into question as it would seem that "by definition" we really don't have a league of exceptionally GREAT owners. We would have no choice but to wonder about how great the quality of our league is. I mean... I, for one, do NOT ever want the rules to be finagled for me. I, in fact, would take offense to the very idea. These are the circumstances we all have to overcome, and I want to be the best at overcoming them, not have them changed or bent so as to ease my team's (inevitable) rough times.
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« Last Edit: Oct 5th, 2007, 2:32pm by Stegfucius » |
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