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League Issues: Defense & Plaques
« on: Dec 26th, 2013, 3:50pm » |
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Hi, Guys!
I am not going to post about the two specific issues I have in mind here until after (our extended) Week 17 kicks off on Sunday. I think, for at least one of the issues, it would/could be somewhat inappropriate for me to do so. HOWEVER, I know I am going to lose some/most/almost all of you guys' attention for a number of months once you have submitted your Week 17 lineups, SO I am letting you all know about this now, before I have turned over the lineups section, in the hopes that you will read this message and remember to check back in sometime on Sunday and read my post about these issues and, perhaps, chime in.
Over and Out,
Stegmissioner
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Re: League Issues: Defense & Plaques
« Reply #1 on: Dec 26th, 2013, 9:07pm » |
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on Dec 26th, 2013, 3:50pm, StegRock wrote:Hi, Guys!
I am not going to post about the two specific issues I have in mind here until after (our extended) Week 17 kicks off on Sunday. I think, for at least one of the issues, it would/could be somewhat inappropriate for me to do so. HOWEVER, I know I am going to lose some/most/almost all of you guys' attention for a number of months once you have submitted your Week 17 lineups, SO I am letting you all know about this now, before I have turned over the lineups section, in the hopes that you will read this message and remember to check back in sometime on Sunday and read my post about these issues and, perhaps, chime in.
Over and Out,
Stegmissioner |
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I have two items I would like to bring up also.
I personally think we should look at the Defensive scoring. I personally have the 49ers, and I think Defenses have too much weight.
The second thing- I would like to see all double headers scheduled the same week. Certain weeks everyone would have single headers other weeks it would be double headers......
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Re: League Issues: Defense & Plaques
« Reply #2 on: Dec 26th, 2013, 10:27pm » |
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on Dec 26th, 2013, 9:07pm, DirkDiggler wrote:I have two items I would like to bring up also.
I personally think we should look at the Defensive scoring. I personally have the 49ers, and I think Defenses have too much weight. |
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  Did you read my mind?
But, please, let's let the discussion on this commence after Week 17's games have kicked off!
Quote:| The second thing- I would like to see all double headers scheduled the same week. Certain weeks everyone would have single headers other weeks it would be double headers...... |
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This one unfortunately is a nightmare to deal with. There are surely inequalities that emerge vis-a-vis the schedule. But, it is just a reality, the rectification of which is just not practical,... easy. Indeed, it is really just an exercise in moving the bulge in the carpet. 
I will consider trying to make the biggest bye weeks single-game weeks, but please know that this is MUCH EASIER said than done. The NFL changes their bye-week schedule from year to year. I do NOT want to have to be changing up the GBRFL schedule every year. I know how many hours it takes. I do NOT get "paid" enough.
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Re: League Issues: Defense & Plaques
« Reply #4 on: Dec 27th, 2013, 7:16pm » |
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on Dec 27th, 2013, 7:28am, DirkDiggler wrote:| In regards to the schedule, let me take a shot. And I am not saying we need the double header weeks when there are NOT byes......I am saying that all of the GBRFL teams should have double weeks the same weeks - so everyone is impacted the same by byes. No one would ever be .5 games ahead or behind someone else. |
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I do not even see how, in theory, that makes any difference. In fact, I see how it could make things more unfair (we have two games the bye-week my team is greatly affected, but only one the week my team is not affected at all). My thinning of the schedule during the bye-weeks (which results in the ever so slightly different number of games played) is my way of equalizing things across the board as best as possible. The one thing I could do that I could possibly see making a positive difference is what I mentioned above, that is, making the big bye-weeks single-game weeks. Again, though, this is a TOTAL NIGHTMARE doing this, and it may really be for naught. Remember a schedule contains LOTS of interworking parts. No change to a schedule is done in isolation.
Quote:| By the way, when it comes to defenses, I have been contemplating throwing out every team start 2 defenses(and every team could only have 3 on their roster at any given time. But it seems to be a challenge with bye weeks...... |
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I strongly believe we should (have) refrain(ed) from discussion of this while the season is still in progress and roster moves can be made unless, of course, we understand that we would have to hold off on implementation until 2015. Indeed, now that the (in particular, two-D) seed (which is what I too have been contemplating) has been planted here, we already may have to if "objectivity" and "fairness" is our guide. Point being, Steve, in your jumping the gun in the discussion here, which is precisely what I requested you all not to do, you have done what I was trying to avoid (as small as it may seem to be). Indeed, at this point, I would probably disallow the implementation of the "2-D" solution, if that is the way we wanted to go, for 2014.
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Re: League Issues: Defense & Plaques
« Reply #6 on: Dec 28th, 2013, 1:24am » |
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on Dec 27th, 2013, 8:55pm, DirkDiggler wrote:Do not see the difference of ME discussing it. No extra protection spot would be given this year, and IF we lower the points, it is even dumber to pick up one. But anyways..................it is my opinion only!!!! Doubt anyone is going to pick up an extra D for a potentially LOWER scoring category 
Besides, it is MY opinion only and subject to a vote. I don't think it is fair to throw out a suggestion because it was mentioned. No different if I mention it now or 3 weeks ago. Hell. I mentioned it and am NOT going for a second defense.
Again, my opinion don't mean shit. |
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The suggestion about lowering the points is not the problematic suggestion... But, anyway... Setting all details aside, in wanting to be as 100% aboveboard as possible as commissioner, I refrained from discussing anything. I thought others would follow my lead and refrain until the week kicked off. That was a stupid and, indeed, unnecessary expectation on my part. You are right, Steve, in the sense that there is a distinction between your position as just a participant and mine as the commissioner. In my initial message, I was right that I should refrain. But, as opposed to the commish, for you guys as participants to just throw ideas out there is a different thing and, indeed, not a big deal. It just so happened that in your initial waning, Steve, you touched precisely upon one of the interestingly paradoxical options we have to minimize the luck factor in relation to the impact Defensive Units currently have on our game, AND it is the problematic one that caused me initially to refrain. So, I, in knee-jerk fashion, thought I had a fire to put out.  In any event, I apologize for coming off snippy and accusatory. I hope you can appreciate the circumstance I have outlined and why I responded the way I did, even though that was wrong of me. The key would have been for ME not to comment! Then, it is just the opining of one owner. I made the mess by responding to you. 
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| « Last Edit: Dec 28th, 2013, 1:32am by Stegfucius » |
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Re: League Issues: Defense & Plaques
« Reply #7 on: Dec 28th, 2013, 9:57pm » |
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on Dec 28th, 2013, 1:24am, StegRock wrote:
The suggestion about lowering the points is not the problematic suggestion... But, anyway... Setting all details aside, in wanting to be as 100% aboveboard as possible as commissioner, I refrained from discussing anything. I thought others would follow my lead and refrain until the week kicked off. That was a stupid and, indeed, unnecessary expectation on my part. You are right, Steve, in the sense that there is a distinction between your position as just a participant and mine as the commissioner. In my initial message, I was right that I should refrain. But, as opposed to the commish, for you guys as participants to just throw ideas out there is a different thing and, indeed, not a big deal. It just so happened that in your initial waning, Steve, you touched precisely upon one of the interestingly paradoxical options we have to minimize the luck factor in relation to the impact Defensive Units currently have on our game, AND it is the problematic one that caused me initially to refrain. So, I, in knee-jerk fashion, thought I had a fire to put out. In any event, I apologize for coming off snippy and accusatory. I hope you can appreciate the circumstance I have outlined and why I responded the way I did, even though that was wrong of me. The key would have been for ME not to comment! Then, it is just the opining of one owner. I made the mess by responding to you. |
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It is all good in the hood. Thanks! Besides, I think you should be able to share your thoughts as well - since we run this as a democracy......... but that is a conversation for another day.
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| « Last Edit: Dec 29th, 2013, 9:46am by DirkDiggler » |
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Re: League Issues: Defense & Plaques
« Reply #8 on: Dec 29th, 2013, 4:10pm » |
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on Dec 28th, 2013, 9:57pm, DirkDiggler wrote:| It is all good in the hood. Thanks! Besides, I think you should be able to share your thoughts as well - since we run this as a democracy......... but that is a conversation for another day. |
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Well, the GBRFL is not a completely thoroughgoing democracy, Steve. There are some things I do and will - and reserve the right to - put the kibosh on due to the work it would make for me. Also, it is not that I cannot voice my position. Indeed, as you all know all too well, I often do so quite vociferously and with great force when it is an issue about which I am passionate (and really want things to go "my way"). Here and in other instances, it is a matter of when it is and when it is NOT absolutely appropriate (for me) to do so (and, frankly speaking, while I retract neither my apology to you nor the general sentiment of that post, I do think patience would have been a virtue on your part here, as well), and, as I see it, you (all) should be thankful that you have a commissioner with such a keen eye toward integrity and detail. It is, indeed, why the GBRFL is in its 21st YEAR and hundreds of thousands of leagues have come and gone in that span. So, yea, I am sorry both to you for my snippiness and to the league for responding to you in such a way that I did end up revealing at a time that may not have been 100% appropriate what I, as commissioner and administrator of the league, am thinking, but, on the other hand, I do not really think that your (edited) reply here is entirely rightheaded. Please understand my reasoning here...
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| « Last Edit: Jan 4th, 2014, 6:34pm by Stegfucius » |
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Re: League Issues: Defense & Plaques
« Reply #9 on: Dec 29th, 2013, 6:57pm » |
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PLEASE peruse this with the due diligence it and the effort I made writing it deserve!!! Thank you! 
OKAY,... on to these issues... Here are some thoughts I have had at the close of yet another GREAT GBRFL season with two of our esteemed owners duking it out  for a championship and a myriad of others fighting for a 3rd Place plaque, which actually segues me to one of the issues...
Our plaques truly are works of art. I take great pride working with our long-time vendor on designing them. Having said that, I have noticed at the end of this season, given my relegation to at best third place for a couple of weeks now, that even I, who treasure all my plaques, including my third-placers, but have my 2014 1st Round draft pick, started to think that losing and not getting a plaque would actually be better. Now, it is not in my constitution to throw games, but that aforementioned thought did enter my mind, and, even though it is not remotely possible that I would act on such a thought, I did also question whether or not this is how a potential award winner should feel "in situ", that is, with a good number of games left to play. It has this feeling of awarding someone who reluctantly backed into or, at least, has, not just mixed, by contradictory feelings about "winning" a plaque.
Of course, a 2nd Place plaque comes with mixed feelings, indeed disappointment, as well, but (in all likelihood) you were still duking it out for a championship Week 17. Furthermore, in years past teams in 3rd (and even 4th) place had a(n outside) chance at a championship entering Week 17. Also, the presence of the 3rd Place plaque may be just enough incentive to keep teams from trying to tank their way into the Draft Lottery. So, the question on the table is, should we consider eliminating the 3rd Place plaque or not? (By the way, a reduction in the number of plaques will NOT mean a decrease in league fees.) I want us to consider the question purely in relation to the impact, or lack thereof, the 3rd Place plaque has on the unfolding of the league.
Okay, now for the all-important matter of defensive scoring... Defensive Units are but one component on a team and an unusual one at that in the sense that unlike an individual player there is more "generality" to the assessment and "fluidity" to the outcome (not that I have ANY desire to go IDP, by the way). Yet, our scoring system gives great weight to this component. (See our Rules/Scoring page for details.) There are arguments for this, mind you, but they did not win the day when we decided many years ago to shave quite a number of points off the category (from the old ASG standard). Moreover, though, now, given an NFL in which defenses have been as unpredictable as they were this year (producing both unforeseeably good and unforeseeably bad performances), the element of luck, which, though we can never eliminate, we have always tried to do our best to minimize, exponentially increases its impact on our game. This was on no greater display than this season. I would witness it in multiple games week in and week out, and it was frustrating to see as a commissioner, no less a fellow participant. There are a couple ways we could go about solving or, at least, moving in the right direction on this.
First, we could shave off some more points. Thing is, there is not much left to shave. We could cut "Points Allowed" down from 6 to 4 and "Points Scored" down from 5 to 4, but what else? Perhaps shave "Yards Allowed" down from 3 to 2, and "Sacks", "Interceptions" and "Fumble Recoveries" down from 2 to 1. That would be to really gut defense, but, anyway, that is about all that can be done. There is not much we can do with the bonuses.
The second possibility there is is a paradox, indeed. It could be argued that we could mitigate the luck factor with regards to defensive units by fielding two starting DU's and, thereby, watering down the impact that one has. Of course, the problem with that is one of very limited supply. One way to solve that is to, as Steve suggested above, add a roster spot and cap the number of defenses a team can have at three. That requires the introduction of an artificial cap, which I hate and we have always avoided. That would work, but there might be unintended, indeed, unforeseeable consequences to that (which cannot be articulated beforehand, but inform my intuition against them), which segues me to another problem with this, namely, that it is very theoretical. It seems like this could work, but I can also see how it would not solve much if anything at all.
Another way around the supply problem, that could allow us to avoid the implementation of an artificial cap, would be to allow teams to choose to field one OR two defenses. If the latter is chosen, an AVERAGE of the two defenses' performances would be used. Again, it is all theoretical, BUT this allows us to avoid the introduction of forced artificiality into our game.
There is a third possibility, a real luck minimizer... We employ a "Best Ball" format (like in the old CBFL) at defense. (I digress... In fact, it has entered my mind, albeit fleetingly, that the "Best Ball" format, which really does serve to seriously limit the luck factor AND make life MUCH easier administratively for both the administrator AND the participant as it eliminates weekly lineup submissions, is the way we should go. However,...) The problem with the "Best Ball" format given the scoring system of the GBRFL is, how do we determine what defense is your best one? Objectively? OR, by which one wins a team the game? The problem with the former is how do we determine that. The problem with the latter is that it could yield a stalemate. Of course, we could render a stalemate a sort of tie and leave it at that (opening the dimension of the, albeit remote, possibility of a tie), or head into overtime and, as we do, defer to the teams' head coaches.
Finally, note  that the second and third options do not preclude our also adopting the first, that is, of shaving points!
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So, whew,  there yous have it all. NOW,  "thought-full" thoughts??? We do not have to figure this all out right away. Indeed, I think beginning with thoughtful, but provisional thoughts, as opposed to conclusive sweeping declarations, is the best way to proceed...
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| « Last Edit: Dec 30th, 2013, 12:47am by Stegfucius » |
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Re: League Issues: Defense & Plaques
« Reply #10 on: Dec 30th, 2013, 12:05pm » |
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I am going to give thought to the defenses, but I will weigh in on the 3rd place plaque. As the most recent receiver of the award, I would say do away with it.
I just received mine today, and it looks awesome. Love seeing the players that led my team last year. But it was with mixed emotion that I received it. 3rd place is just that. It was a brutal reminder of what could of been last year. I was so close, if not for a few missed field goals, starting the wrong player, or my defense collapsing.
As a matter of fact, I say no second place trophy either. I would save it all for 1st place. All or nothing! An awesome plaque you can display with pride rather than the regrets of what could of been.
Please do not read this as me being unappreciative! I am! I just think holding out for first place is best!!!!
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| « Last Edit: Dec 30th, 2013, 12:16pm by DirkDiggler » |
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Re: League Issues: Defense & Plaques
« Reply #11 on: Dec 30th, 2013, 1:48pm » |
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I don't want to change anything though I will hear what people say about changing the defense scoring.
I agree that this year was crazy in that the "top" defenses had some really bad games and the category was more unpredictable that usual. However, I am not ready to say we should change it up. Nor am I ready to say that we should reduce the points more (and I think I was the one that suggested reducing points the first time).
I like our system the way it is. There are ways to get around this unpredictable phenomenon ... draft a better defense.
As for the plaques, I see no reason to take away any, including 3rd place. 3rd is really good in this league and I would gladly take it. Just make it optional ... if someone doesn't want it, then they do not have to get a plaque.
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Re: League Issues: Defense & Plaques
« Reply #12 on: Dec 30th, 2013, 4:27pm » |
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My initial, gut reaction is that we should do very little to nothing in the way of changing the defensive scoring system. I can see shaving off a point here and there, but someone will be hard put to convince me that we should do more than that. But I'd like to hear more arguments before I decide.
Here are my initial thoughts.
My first or second year in the league I had a talk with Joe about the place of tight ends and of defenses in the GBRFL, and I think we ended up in agreement about the role of defenses and of defensive scoring: viz., defenses are pretty important in the actual football game (in how many points they give up, how many points they score, turnovers, etc.), and so they're pretty important in our fantasy football games. That's my basic position.
The argument for decreasing the importance of defenses, as it has been put, seems to lean on several owners' experience this year of the predominance of the luck factor. But I can use the same experience to argue that we should start only 2 running backs, or 1 quarterback -- that is, there was a great deal of luck involved in who was injured vs. who was healthy (I had Doug Martin, his backup Mike James, CJ Spiller, and then MJD get hit hard by injuries. That's my starting corps at running back.) But, I get the sense that the argument being advanced goes even farther than this. I get the sense that several owners are upset that historically/generally great defenses had some stink-bomb games and thereby submarined some games for some owners. My response: wow, sounds like all of fantasy football (NOT just defenses) for this whole season. Colin Kaepernick was a steaming pile of dung for at least 8 weeks; Danny Amendola and Mike Wallace, likewise. Ray Rice, Doug Martin, CJ Spiller, Lamar Miller, and Steven Jackson (and others, arguably) all had much worse years than they were expected to have. MUCH worse. As in, even worse than what most would have identified as their "floor" for the year. Same for Kaepernick, RG3, Matt Ryan, and Schaub (to name a few). Point is, the whole year seemed like much more of a crapshoot than usual: it wasn't just injuries but strange trends (the fall-off in running back stats, e.g.) and strange months-long performances by players that made it so. Are we going to shave points for all positions to minimize the role of luck?
In fact, I think there was more consistency in defensive performances than in the other categories this year. The Niners, Seahawks (esp. at home, obviously), Bengals, and Cardinals were generally pretty good, week in and week out. So were the Chiefs, until the last month or so. Do we really think defensive performance was more unpredictable than running back performances (Ray Rice, Doug Martin, Steven Jackson, CJ Spiller) or qb performances (Kaep, RG3, Schaub)? It seems to me a hard case to make. And unless a convincing case can be made for this, and for the CONTINUANCE of this trend in years to come, I don't think it's a good idea to change anything in our scoring system.
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Re: League Issues: Defense & Plaques
« Reply #13 on: Dec 31st, 2013, 5:45am » |
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on Dec 30th, 2013, 12:05pm, DirkDiggler wrote:I am going to give thought to the defenses, but I will weigh in on the 3rd place plaque. As the most recent receiver of the award, I would say do away with it.
I just received mine today, and it looks awesome. Love seeing the players that led my team last year. But it was with mixed emotion that I received it. 3rd place is just that. It was a brutal reminder of what could of been last year. I was so close, if not for a few missed field goals, starting the wrong player, or my defense collapsing.
As a matter of fact, I say no second place trophy either. I would save it all for 1st place. All or nothing! An awesome plaque you can display with pride rather than the regrets of what could of been.
Please do not read this as me being unappreciative! I am! I just think holding out for first place is best!!!! |
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My comment on this is that I know how you feel, but perspective matters. All the 2nd- and 3rd-Placers have a way being more appreciated after you have won a championship. They remind you of the longer journey. This is a deep keeper league, after all. This is anecdotal, granted. But, it was precisely what I experienced after I won my second championship after a number of 2nd-Place finishes. That could turn out to be your experience, too.
Indeed, this could be case in point...
on Dec 30th, 2013, 1:48pm, DB wrote:| As for the plaques, I see no reason to take away any, including 3rd place. 3rd is really good in this league and I would gladly take it. |
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on Dec 30th, 2013, 1:48pm, DB wrote:| I like our system the way it is. There are ways to get around this unpredictable phenomenon ... draft a better defense. |
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Wellllllll,... are you being ironic? You yourself are the counterexample to your very own point! Setting aside the fact that you are our likely 2013 Champion, you did just that this year, indeed, drafting not just one, but TWO defenses very, or perhaps better stated, TOO high, and they both disappointed.
on Dec 30th, 2013, 4:27pm, Travistotle wrote:The argument for decreasing the importance of defenses, as it has been put, seems to lean on several owners' experience this year of the predominance of the luck factor. But I can use the same experience to argue that we should start only 2 running backs, or 1 quarterback -- that is, there was a great deal of luck involved in who was injured vs. who was healthy (I had Doug Martin, his backup Mike James, CJ Spiller, and then MJD get hit hard by injuries. That's my starting corps at running back.) But, I get the sense that the argument being advanced goes even farther than this. I get the sense that several owners are upset that historically/generally great defenses had some stink-bomb games and thereby submarined some games for some owners. My response: wow, sounds like all of fantasy football (NOT just defenses) for this whole season. Colin Kaepernick was a steaming pile of dung for at least 8 weeks; Danny Amendola and Mike Wallace, likewise. Ray Rice, Doug Martin, CJ Spiller, Lamar Miller, and Steven Jackson (and others, arguably) all had much worse years than they were expected to have. MUCH worse. As in, even worse than what most would have identified as their "floor" for the year. Same for Kaepernick, RG3, Matt Ryan, and Schaub (to name a few). Point is, the whole year seemed like much more of a crapshoot than usual: it wasn't just injuries but strange trends (the fall-off in running back stats, e.g.) and strange months-long performances by players that made it so. Are we going to shave points for all positions to minimize the role of luck?
In fact, I think there was more consistency in defensive performances than in the other categories this year. The Niners, Seahawks (esp. at home, obviously), Bengals, and Cardinals were generally pretty good, week in and week out. So were the Chiefs, until the last month or so. Do we really think defensive performance was more unpredictable than running back performances (Ray Rice, Doug Martin, Steven Jackson, CJ Spiller) or qb performances (Kaep, RG3, Schaub)? It seems to me a hard case to make. And unless a convincing case can be made for this, and for the CONTINUANCE of this trend in years to come, I don't think it's a good idea to change anything in our scoring system. |
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My retort here is just that, while your team did have a quite unforeseeable total collapse this year, at least at the other major positions one's hopes are not all riding on one player. ONE DU weighs just about as much as two QB's, three RB's and three RC's! This is not even to mention the fact that each of those positions may contribute to another category. Your ONE defense is SOLELY responsible for winning or losing you this major category, and, meanwhile, if we are honest about this, no one researches defenses even close to how closely we research quarterbacks, running backs or receivers. Indeed, the consideration we give defenses is probably more akin to the consideration we give kickers. If we were just to have the option of playing a second defense, that would, at least, force us to strategize about and, thus, pay attention to the position more, and it would also at least open up the possibility of avoiding having this category be determined SOLELY by ONE DU.
I do not know what the impact on the luck factor would be, perhaps negligible, but it at least makes it possible to diffuse the impact of the category over more of your roster, and just having the option in and of itself would serve to reward those who have made the investment in the position, no?
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Re: League Issues: Defense & Plaques
« Reply #15 on: Jan 1st, 2014, 5:15am » |
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 | I DIGRESS...
In light of Week 17 free-agency, I, as "commissioner", of course, am also thinking about proposing the addition of a new position, "SA", Sports Analyst. I think I have got the inside track on dominating that one.  |
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Re: League Issues: Defense & Plaques
« Reply #17 on: Jan 1st, 2014, 6:09pm » |
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Quote:| I vote you keep it as is. More important, who won the championship this year, i know its not done but either DB or Shit Head won? I am sure someone has an idea what is what? |
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Looks like I may be lighting up another victory cigar.
As for this ...
Quote:| Wellllllll,... are you being ironic? You yourself are the counterexample to your very own point! Setting aside the fact that you are our likely 2013 Champion, you did just that this year, indeed, drafting not just one, but TWO defenses very, or perhaps better stated, TOO high, and they both disappointed. |
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I disagree. In fact, this supports my argument. I am really bad at picking defenses. Always have been. I drafted defense high this year because I felt that was all my team needed at the time. I happened to pick bad ones, but that was the way to solve the problem. I don't think that it was bad luck, I just made the wrong picks. Don't think that averaging 2 defenses is a better solution than just taking a better defense.
The point is that there were good defenses this year. But I am not definitely saying I would vote no ... I am willing to hear what people say.
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Re: League Issues: Defense & Plaques
« Reply #19 on: Jan 2nd, 2014, 7:46am » |
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One that gives up less points and yards and gets more INTs, FR, sacks, and scores.
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Re: League Issues: Defense & Plaques
« Reply #21 on: Jan 2nd, 2014, 5:51pm » |
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on Jan 2nd, 2014, 7:46am, DB wrote:| One that gives up less points and yards and gets more INTs, FR, sacks, and scores. |
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How do we know that a defense gives up fewer points and yards, gets more interceptions, fumble recoveries and sacks and scores more points?
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Re: League Issues: Defense & Plaques
« Reply #22 on: Jan 3rd, 2014, 11:43am » |
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Ok, I will play along, but I hope you get to the point soon.
Retrospectively, we know by looking at the statistics. Prospectively, we can only predict how a player or defense will perform.
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Re: League Issues: Defense & Plaques
« Reply #23 on: Jan 3rd, 2014, 3:49pm » |
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Well, I hope you come along on the journey for however long it takes for it is an important and revealing, and not necessarily lengthy, one... I mean I am not being my usual longwinded self here in these posts, right? Alright, moving right along...
on Jan 3rd, 2014, 11:43am, DB wrote:Ok, I will play along, but I hope you get to the point soon.
Retrospectively, we know by looking at the statistics. Prospectively, we can only predict how a player or defense will perform. |
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Something can only be truly said to be better if one "knows" it is better, no? I mean how can someone say something is better without knowing it is better. Only the proverbial seller of snake oil would do that!
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Re: League Issues: Defense & Plaques
« Reply #24 on: Jan 4th, 2014, 11:45am » |
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Quote:| Something can only be truly said to be better if one "knows" it is better, no? |
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Yes. Are we still talking about the issue of adding another defense?
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What do you mean by "better" when you say "better defense"?