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2009 CBFL Cheatsheets/Commentary Thread
« on: Jun 19th, 2009, 3:37am » |
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On this, the very first post of this thread, I will maintain position-by-position cheatsheets. This will also act as the CBFL Draft commentary (and  trash-talk  ) thread. PLEASE do NOT put comments on the picks and administration/league discussion (IN-HOUSE) threads on the CBFL board! Put comments on picks and how the draft is unfolding HERE! Thank you! 
Cheatsheets
(To view the actual draft, go to: http://www.fantasyfootballer.com/cgi-bin/theGridiron/YaBB.cgi?board=54;a ction=display;num=1245397026.)
QB's
1. Drew Brees - Saints
2. Tom Brady - Patriots
3. Peyton Manning - Colts
4. Kurt Warner - Cardinals
5. Phillip Rivers - Chargers
6. Aaron Rodgers - Packers
7. Donovan McNabb - Eagles
8. Tony Romo - Cowboys
9. Matt Ryan - Falcons
10. Matt Schaub - Texans
11. Carson Palmer - Bengals
12. Jay Cutler - Bears
13. Ben Roethlisberger - Steelers
14. JaMarcus Russell - Raiders
15. Eli Manning - Giants
16. Kyle Orton - Broncos
17. Matt Hasselbeck - Seahawks
18. Brett Favre - Free-agent
19. Matt Cassel - Chiefs
20. David Garrard - Jaguars
RB's
1. Adrian Peterson - Vikings
2. Matt Forte - Bears
3. Steven Jackson - Rams
4. Maurice Jones-Drew - Jaguars
5. Chris Johnson - Titans
6. Michael Turner - Falcons
7. DeAngelo Williams - Panthers
8. Frank Gore - 49ers
9. LaDainian Tomlinson - Chargers
10. Steve Slaton - Texans
11. Brian Westbrook - Eagles
12. Brandon Jacobs - Giants
13. Clinton Portis - Redskins
14. Marion Barber - Cowboys
15. Ronnie Brown - Dolphins
16. Thomas Jones - Jets
17. Ryan Grant - Packers
18. Pierre Thomas - Saints
19. Larry Johnson - Chiefs
20. Darren McFadden - Raiders
21. Kevin Smith - Lions
22. Reggie Bush - Saints
23. Willie Parker - Steelers
24. Marshawn Lynch - Bills
25. Knowshon Moreno - Broncos
26. Joseph Addai - Colts
27. Jonathan Stewart - Panthers
28. Jamal Lewis - Browns
29. Chris Wells - Cardinals
30. Cedric Benson - Bengals
31. Derrick Ward - Buccaneers
32. LenDale White - Titans
33. Fred Taylor - Patriots
34. Felix Jones - Cowboys
35. Ray Rice - Ravens
WR's
1. Larry Fitzgerald - Cardinals
2. Randy Moss - Patriots
3. Andre Johnson - Texans
4. Calvin Johnson - Lions
5. Reggie Wayne - Colts
6. Greg Jennings - Packers
7. Marques Colston - Saints
8. Roddy White - Falcons
9. Steve Smith - Panthers
10. Anquan Boldin - Cardinals
11. Dwayne Bowe - Chiefs
12. Terrell Owens - Bills
13. Chad Ochocinco - Bengals
14. Wes Welker - Patriots
15. Santonio Holmes - Steelers
16. Roy Williams - Cowboys
17. T. J. Houshmandzadeh - Seahawks
18. Vincent Jackson - Chargers
19. Anthony Gonzalez - Colts
20. Antonio Bryant - Buccaneers
21. Brandon Marshall - Broncos
22. Braylon Edwards - Browns
23. DeSean Jackson - Eagles
24. Hines Ward - Steelers
25. Jerricho Cotchery - Jets
26. Bernard Berrian - Vikings
27. Lance Moore - Saints
28. Santana Moss - Redskins
29. Derrick Mason - Ravens
30. Devin Hester - Bears
31. Lee Evans - Bills
32. Percy Harvin - Vikings
33. Laveranues Coles - Bengals
TE's
1. Jason Witten - Cowboys
2. Antonio Gates - Chargers
3. Tony Gonzalez - Falcons
4. Dallas Clark - Colts
5. Greg Olson - Bears
6. Chris Cooley - Redskins
7. Owen Daniels - Texans
8. John Carlson - Seahawks
9. Kellen Winslow - Buccaneers
10. Jeremy Shockey - Saints
11. Kevin Boss - Giants
12. Zach Miller - Raiders
13. Heath Miller - Steelers
14. Visanthe Shiancoe - Vikings
15. Dustin Keller - Jets
16. Brent Celek - Eagles
PK's
1. Stephen Gostkowski - Patriots
2. Nate Kaeding - Chargers
3. Rob Bironas - Titans
4. David Akers - Eagles
5. Mason Crosby - Packers
6. Garrett Hartley - Chiefs
7. Robbie Gould - Bears
8. Jason Elam - Falcons
9. Ryan Longwell - Vikings
10. Neil Rackers - Cardinals
11. John Kasay - Panthers
12. Kris Brown - Texans
13. Rian Lindell - Bills
14. Lawrence Tynes - Giants
15. Adam Vinatieri - Colts
16. Nick Folk - Cowboys
D/ST's
1. Pittsburgh Steelers
2. Baltimore Ravens
3. Tennessee Titans
4. Minnesota Vikings
5. Philadelphia Eagles
6. New York Jets
7. New York Giants
8. New England Patriots
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| « Last Edit: Jun 24th, 2009, 12:36am by Stegfucius » |
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Philosopher King
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Re: 2009 CBFL Cheatsheets/Commentary Thread
« Reply #1 on: Jun 19th, 2009, 12:47pm » |
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on Jun 19th, 2009, 12:39pm, cwhams wrote:| 1.02 - RB Matt Forte - Bears |
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At the end of the day, after thorough overnight osmotic  contemplation, that's who I too would have taken second! I was hoping he would fall to me...  So much for that hope... Great pick, Dubs! 
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Philosopher King
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Re: 2009 CBFL Cheatsheets/Commentary Thread
« Reply #3 on: Jun 19th, 2009, 1:23pm » |
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on Jun 19th, 2009, 1:18pm, cwhams wrote:It is, in fact, who young Takamine would have taken as well. We love those Bears!  |
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Great minds... around  Salukiland... think alike!!! 
Though they were good, you two did make homer  picks, I must say. 
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Re: 2009 CBFL Cheatsheets/Commentary Thread
« Reply #5 on: Jun 19th, 2009, 4:24pm » |
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Yeah, I was waffling at 4 between MJD and Turner. Can't believe Turner made it to round 2.
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Re: 2009 CBFL Cheatsheets/Commentary Thread
« Reply #12 on: Jun 21st, 2009, 12:10am » |
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Half-time report...
on Jun 19th, 2009, 11:32pm, StegRock wrote:| Best/Worst picks so far...??? |
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Well,... if I liked LJ at 6.06, I must admit that I LOVE Willie Parker at 8.02... and, for that matter, Reggie Bush at 7.07, as well! In fact, I had LJ, Bush, Parker and K. Smith (and maybe...???), in that order, at the end of a tier there.
The pick I was most "pressed" in making was Dallas Clark at 6.02. I hated taking, what I consider to be, the top guy of the next tier at the position, which in and of itself is not an entirely bad thing, but I took him right after, what I consider to be, the last guy of the top tier, that is, Tony G. So, with that said, Gonzalez was a great value pick for Chili.
Anyway, overall, I'm very happy here at half-time! What are you guys thinking about your respective teams, about anybody's team?
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Re: 2009 CBFL Cheatsheets/Commentary Thread
« Reply #15 on: Jun 22nd, 2009, 1:09am » |
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on Jun 22nd, 2009, 1:02am, Takamine305 wrote:| 11.03 - RB Cedric Benson - Bengals |
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Like it or lump it... That might very well have been the steal of the draft. 
I'm thinking on some level, though, Nateman,  that was an uncomfortable pick for you to make. 
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Re: 2009 CBFL Cheatsheets/Commentary Thread
« Reply #18 on: Jun 22nd, 2009, 10:42am » |
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on Jun 22nd, 2009, 1:09am, StegRock wrote:
Like it or lump it... That might very well have been the steal of the draft.
I'm thinking on some level, though, Nateman, that was an uncomfortable pick for you to make. |
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I believe Benson is a good selection at 11.03, as would be any starting running back chosen in the 11th round. Benson has had a grand total of 4 good games in a row in the totality of his career. Perhaps he will extend the streak he started last year? 
Make note of the fact that Benson had 38 carries in the game at Cleveland that he got 171 yards...no TDs.
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| « Last Edit: Jun 22nd, 2009, 10:48am by cwhams » |
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Re: 2009 CBFL Cheatsheets/Commentary Thread
« Reply #19 on: Jun 22nd, 2009, 12:24pm » |
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Jay Culter really took a hit this year, huh? If things had remained status quo in Denver, he would have been the 4th QB taken instead of the 12th. I passed on him twice, taking Romo and Ryan. I actually think Culter should be ranked ahead of Ryan but it was close enough in my mind that I could justify taking the guy I would rather root for this year.
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Re: 2009 CBFL Cheatsheets/Commentary Thread
« Reply #20 on: Jun 22nd, 2009, 12:53pm » |
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Couldn't agree with you more, DB. Even though I have a "rooting" interest in Cutler via GBRFL, I would much rather cheer on Ryan.
I do think Cutler still has the potential and ability to be an amazing QB in the NFL. I just don't know if he can do the amount of growing up he needs to do.
And just from a CBFL view (and I hate to say it because I think it's becoming apparent that this guy could be a troubled player), my personal vote for "steal" in this draft is Brandon Marshall. IF he does not get suspended and IF he comes to his senses soon and works with the Broncos for a trade or to stay, I think he will have the same, if not better, season as he did two years ago. He has all the talent in the world. He just makes absolutely horrible decisions off the field.
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Re: 2009 CBFL Cheatsheets/Commentary Thread
« Reply #21 on: Jun 22nd, 2009, 3:11pm » |
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on Jun 22nd, 2009, 12:24pm, DB wrote:| I actually think Culter... |
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Now, Ann Coulter,... that's a who different thing.
on Jun 22nd, 2009, 12:53pm, Drew Rosenhaus wrote:| ... my personal vote for "steal" in this draft is Brandon Marshall. IF he does not get suspended and IF he comes to his senses soon and works with the Broncos for a trade or to stay, I think he will have the same, if not better, season as he did two years ago. |
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... And, a third conditional you missed, IF noodles, Kyle Orton, can get him the ball like Cutler used to, assuming he remains a Bronco. And, vis-a-vis that last conditional, Markie, you are a little bit stuck in your logic here insofar as you took Cutler, who will now quarterback Orton's old team, over Orton, who will now quarterback Cutler's old team, which, GBRFL aside, matter-of-factly indicates how much better of a quarterback than Orton you think Cutler is given, the fact that you are a diehard Broncos fan aside, how much friendlier of a situation Orton finds himself in, moreover, presumably throwing the ball to Marshall. Your one way out would be for you to contend that Marshall will land in Chicago this year, which I don't think has a snowball's chance in hell of happening as long as the Broncos' management has anything to say about it, and in fact they have all to say about it. Plax's going to Chicago would help your position, but that is far from a sure thing and still doesn't overcome the logic of your position, assuming Marshall remains a Bronco that is. Again, in short, insofar as it is possible that Marshall will remain a Bronco, your position assumes that Orton will be able to deliver the ball to him just as well, if not better, than Cutler did (if his numbers are to be just as good, if not better, this year as you say). But, that is largely belied by your selecting Cutler, the Bear, over Orton, the Bronco. We are left with, though not strictly speaking (but when is applied logic ever useful strictly speaking), generally speaking, a logical contradiction of sorts that you can't easily argue your way out of without giving something up. 
Moving right along... 
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Re: 2009 CBFL Cheatsheets/Commentary Thread
« Reply #22 on: Jun 22nd, 2009, 3:55pm » |
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on Jun 22nd, 2009, 3:11pm, StegRock wrote:| ...you are a little bit stuck in your logic here insofar as you took Cutler, who will now quarterback Orton's old team, over Orton, who will now quarterback Cutler's old team, which, GBRFL aside, matter-of-factly indicates how much better of a quarterback than Orton you think Cutler is given, the fact that you are a diehard Broncos fan aside, how much friendlier of a situation Orton finds himself in, moreover, presumably throwing the ball to Marshall. |
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Taking Cutler over Orton simply means that I am fine with taking the chance that I believe Cutler is a more talented QB than Orton. I believe the tools around Cutler do not necessarily have to be all-pro to allow him good fantasy stats (although by CBFL standards and a discussion directly above on this very same thread, he is working with the #2 overall fantasy player, so...)
As you well know, there were many years that John Elway had sub-par talent surrounding him and yet he still posted viable fantasy numbers. Am I comparing Cutler to Elway? Absolutely not. Just comparing the surrounding talent situation. Tom Brady had some pretty good fantasy numbers without Randy Moss. Who was his all-pro target then?
on Jun 22nd, 2009, 3:11pm, StegRock wrote:| Your one way out would be for you to contend that Marshall will land in Chicago this year, which I don't think has a snowball's chance in hell of happening as long as the Broncos' management has anything to say about it, and in fact they have all to say about it. Plax's going to Chicago would help your position, but that is far from a sure thing and still doesn't overcome the logic of your position, assuming Marshall remains a Bronco that is. Again, in short, insofar as it is possible that Marshall will remain a Bronco, your position assumes that Orton will be able to deliver the ball to him just as well, if not better, than Cutler did (if his numbers are to be just as good, if not better, this year as you say). But, that is largely belied by your selecting Cutler, the Bear, over Orton, the Bronco. We are left with, though not strictly speaking (but when is applied logic ever useful strictly speaking), generally speaking, a logical contradiction of sorts that you can't easily argue your way out of without giving something up. |
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Two words will suffice to refute your faulty reasoning here:
Calvin Johnson (1,331 yds, 12 tds)
Who was the superstar QB to whip him the ball last year - Montana? Young? A finally healthy Favre? No to all three. Here is the list of the QBs who got him the ball:
- Orlovsky
- Kitna
- Culpeeper
- Stanton (who should be a starer in my opinion )
Do I think Marshall is as talented as CJ? Absolutely and without a doubt. Is he the same mentally? I highly doubt it. But singularly based on your theory, the Detroit QB should be off the board by now.
He isn't, and you are a pillow-biter.
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Re: 2009 CBFL Cheatsheets/Commentary Thread
« Reply #23 on: Jun 22nd, 2009, 6:47pm » |
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on Jun 22nd, 2009, 3:55pm, Drew Rosenhaus wrote:| Taking Cutler over Orton simply means that I am fine with taking the chance that I believe Cutler is a more talented QB than Orton. I believe the tools around Cutler do not necessarily have to be all-pro to allow him good fantasy stats (although by CBFL standards and a discussion directly above on this very same thread, he is working with the #2 overall fantasy player, so...) |
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Markie, you are going a little apples and oranges here on me with the Lions comparison. What makes this situation with Cutler and Orton and the Bears and Broncos so readily amenable to logical analysis is that it is a rare "exact switcheroo". The only substantial change on either end is the Broncos' coaching situation, which actually should prove to be MORE passer-friendly than Shanahan's. In fact, further pushing the envelope on the logical argument here, I take it to be the case that, making the analysis here even easier, the Bears and Broncos are teams of similar quality, heading into the season at least. At any rate, normally, in these kinds of analyses, there are just too many variables to treat of the situations analogously, no less logically. Usually you have to consider the humungous factors of the teams' relative "overall quality" and "system" and on and on. At least, both of those overarching factors factor into how much a team is going to be in passing and rushing situations, respectively, i.e., some systems are more pass happy and some teams find themselves playing catch-up more often than not. I find at least the latter to be the situation of the Lions. In any event, it's a whole nother situation, bringing with it a whole nother set of variables (especially since it's the Lions) unrelated to the one at hand. With that said, we need not go there. Needlessly bringing in an analogue, the Lions in this case, serves only to muddy the waters of what is otherwise a very clear logically analyzable situation, which, mind you, is a RARE TREAT for us analytic(ally-disposed) philosophers.
So, my ultimate point is that you can't just "simply" make the claim you do. I mean... you can simply justify it in your own mind, but you cannot simply make the case, especially in this case where the guts are so unusually exposed (to logical analysis). Ultimately, contradictions only appear in language insofar as words canNOT capture reality. Contradictions do NOT appear in REALITY.  You can ultimately think that Marshall is the get of this draft, hell, have drafted him yourself, AND still draft Cutler over Orton. I'm just saying that due to the rare interconnectedness manifest in this situation and, consequent, logical analyzability of this particular situation (logical) commitments are more readily exposed, commitments which may cause you to adjust your position or abandon certain points in your position. Everything becomes more hard-pressed to justify in this situation. I was just about to say that one out for you is to claim that Orton will be a different, significantly improved quarterback in Denver than he was in Chicago. But, even that is tenuous because then the justification of drafting Cutler over Orton becomes, not impossible, but strained. What you'd have to do is put the major emphasis of your argument on the one point of change here, that is, the arrival of McDaniels and his system in Denver. I'm not sure you want to do that, though. On the Marshall side of the ball, you'd want to place the emphasis on the chances that he may end up elsewhere, but you didn't do that. In fact, you explicitly included the possibility of his remaining in Denver. Anyway, I'm just saying that this is all more interrelated than we usually see with this stuff,... and that's what makes this particular situation (philosophically/analytically) fun.  Hence, let's keep the discussion of this particular, rather self-contained situation REALLY tight. 
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