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MordecaiCourage
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Re: Offseason on "the Gridiron"
« Reply #75 on: Nov 30th, 2005, 12:50am »
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on Nov 29th, 2005, 8:20pm, StegRock wrote:
Well, fellow Gridironers,
 
 
1) Our "FF-specific Team Reports" section, which is featured at the top of the pages of the forum has, thankfully, grown by leaps and bounds this year. That section along with the other "added" (non-forum) related links in that area above the forum is really pushing the forum itself down, however, necessitating quite a bit of (extra) scrolling. How would you guys like to see the stuff up there reorganized/consolidated? The "Donations" link ain't going anywhere. But, besides that, the rest could be consolidated under two headings: "FF-specific Team Reports" and "Other Featured Content". I mean, one quick case in point, as things stand right now "the Newsstand" and "The REAL Feed" links are in fact redundant. Also, do you guys like that stuff up there where it is or would you prefer those links to be off to the left? Or, what other ideas do you have regarding this?

 
Steg...I have only been here for a short while so I don't feel I can speak with much authority on site layout or content. However, I will try to provide some insight to how I see it. I personally like the layout you have, but I can see where you may want to reorganize things a bit. The Team Reports section is what pulled me to the site in the first place and is one of my favorite things about the Gridiron. I would like to see that stay at the top in the same or similiar layout. I'm not sure how the heading "Other Featured Content" would look, but yes I agree it could be consolidated in some fashion.
 
Quote:

2) This is a very small one... Is it time to remove the "smiley memorial" to 9/11 up at the top center? Do NOT get me wrong. I like it. I like those who like it. And, I like that it in its small way helps us not forget that event. BUT,...??? ...

 
On this subject I can speak with authority. Being a firefighter myself, I've got to say that the memorial means something to me. Alot in fact, but I do think it is time to remove it completely or replace it with something more site specific. I think that most Americans will never forget 9/11. Those that have forgotten will not be stirred by a memorial anyway...even if pictures of the Towers themselves were staring them in the face every day! It's just "not" in them. For those of us who do remember, well hey, we don't need a reminder now do we? That's because it "is" forever in us.
 
Bottom line as I see it is that you should consolidate and refresh the site as you see fit. You are putting in the time in the trenches and if you need or just want to tone things down a bit then you should go for it!! I for one am not going anywhere...I'm here for the long haul. Thanks for asking for our opinions, it shows your willingness to improve this for all of us. Let me know if you need any kind of help.
 
« Last Edit: Nov 30th, 2005, 12:52am by MordecaiCourage » Logged
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Re: Offseason on "the Gridiron"
« Reply #76 on: Nov 30th, 2005, 1:49am »
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Thanks for the fair-minded input, MC! I hope others follow in suit and express their "thoughtful" takes.
 
...
 
Also, I did not realize that my post was going to be the last post on the prior page and, thus, get quickly buried.  So, I am going to quote it here so it appears in full, the way I wrote it on page 4 here...
 
on Nov 29th, 2005, 8:20pm, StegRock wrote:
Well, fellow Gridironers,
 
I am at one of these junctures where I'd like to (in the spirit of slow, but steady progress) garner some input from you all regarding (reasonable/small) upgrades/modifications to be considered for the offseason. At this time, I would like input on the following...
 
1) Our "FF-specific Team Reports" section, which is featured at the top of the pages of the forum has, thankfully, grown by leaps and bounds this year. That section along with the other "added" (non-forum) related links in that area above the forum is really pushing the forum itself down, however, necessitating quite a bit of (extra) scrolling. How would you guys like to see the stuff up there reorganized/consolidated? The "Donations" link ain't going anywhere. But, besides that, the rest could be consolidated under two headings: "FF-specific Team Reports" and "Other Featured Content". I mean, one quick case in point, as things stand right now "the Newsstand" and "The REAL Feed" links are in fact redundant. Also, do you guys like that stuff up there where it is or would you prefer those links to be off to the left? Or, what other ideas do you have regarding this?
 
2) This is a very small one... Is it time to remove the "smiley memorial" to 9/11 up at the top center? Do NOT get me wrong. I like it. I like those who like it. And, I like that it in its small way helps us not forget that event. BUT,...??? ...
 
Finally, please understand that at this time I am asking about these two issues in particular as I am, given what I perceive to be their particular importance at this time, willing to add getting them done to my already full plate. So, I want input about what I can (make the time to) do. What I don't need is a deluge of unfocused recommendations. So, please limit your suggestions to these areas of inquiry. And, ON THE OTHER HAND, if you kind of like things as they are, please let me know that too (though I don't think this is totally going to be or even should be the case as I myself think something, even if just something small, needs to be done, at least with respect to #1 above). The point being, if you guys think things are fine as they are with respect to these issues, I can consider directing my energies to other "projects".
 
Please do feel free to chime in here. Just do so thoughtfully. There are few, if any, sites out there where your input on such developmental matters matters. Here I ask for it. I implore you all to take advantage of this unique opportunity to "make a difference". Thank you for your anticipated thoughtful input! I am...
 
...Sincerely,
Steve Stegeman
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Re: Offseason on "the Gridiron"
« Reply #77 on: Nov 30th, 2005, 7:21pm »
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on Nov 29th, 2005, 8:20pm, StegRock wrote:

1) Our "FF-specific Team Reports" section, which is featured at the top of the pages of the forum has, thankfully, grown by leaps and bounds this year. That section along with the other "added" (non-forum) related links in that area above the forum is really pushing the forum itself down, however, necessitating quite a bit of (extra) scrolling. How would you guys like to see the stuff up there reorganized/consolidated? The "Donations" link ain't going anywhere. But, besides that, the rest could be consolidated under two headings: "FF-specific Team Reports" and "Other Featured Content". I mean, one quick case in point, as things stand right now "the Newsstand" and "The REAL Feed" links are in fact redundant. Also, do you guys like that stuff up there where it is or would you prefer those links to be off to the left? Or, what other ideas do you have regarding this?

 
I like where the team reports are, easily accessible right there on the front page. If there was a way to keep them there and make them smaller, but still recognizable, then by all means, shrink them down! As long as the site still looks professional (like it does now) I am all for it!
 
Quote:
2) This is a very small one... Is it time to remove the "smiley memorial" to 9/11 up at the top center? Do NOT get me wrong. I like it. I like those who like it. And, I like that it in its small way helps us not forget that event. BUT,...??? ...

 
Since I too work in the   and   as a 911 dispatcher, I like seeing the 911 smiley. Please keep it there!!  
 
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Re: Offseason on "the Gridiron"
« Reply #78 on: Dec 1st, 2005, 9:51am »
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Steg,
For the most part I like the site the way it is. Ive been around for a while and have kinda gotten used to it. You are right however that the Newsstand and the Real Feed are redundent. Also, If I were to change the smiley memorial at the top, I would change it to a memorial of the New England Patriots.      Oh wait, sorry , Thats Jakes site!
    Anyway, I know you didn't ask for it but.....        
I think it would be wise to include a Site rules or etiquitte link. It seems to me that alot of time is spent (rightfully) on moving things or explaining things to the newbies. I.E. it took me forever to figure out that I could search   for archived info before starting a new redundent thread. I had to be slapped around by the moderator a few times before I got it.   Being slapped by the moderator did 3 things. It helped to keep the site clean yes, but it made me originally feel that the site ownership was being overly pretencious and insulting. I didnt see the ultimate goal and I just wasnt used to this style of forums. It also took time away from the moderators who otherwise could have used said time for their own enjoyment.  This site operates differently from any other.   I was insulted because I didnt understand what better actually was. It would be nice to point people to a front page Etiquitte and rules area instead of refering to posted threads that newbies wont pursue by themselves anyway. I was close to leaving and never coming back. Fortunatly I had the patients to sit back and see the big picture. I wonder how many people we have lost who could share valuble insite because of their own lack of patients. You have to raise your children   slowly. Sorry for offering what you didn't ask for. Just trying to shed some light my brother.  
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Re: Offseason on "the Gridiron"
« Reply #79 on: Dec 1st, 2005, 12:52pm »
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Maybe the Reports could be indicated with a header and a team helmet or logo indicating each team.  I too think that they take up a bit too much space.  They're getting the prime real estate, above the fold, as it were, when the message board is the heart and soul of the site. I'd also remove the borders from the table.  Some of the links up top would better be represented by a rectangular button to draw more attention to them - as it is, I often don't even see them any more when on the site - they've just become more "text".  I have to admit, however, that this site is primarily text-driven and I'm more of a graphical kind of guy...
 
As for the 9/11 smiley.  I don't need a reminder to remember it.  I think it's time to take it down.  9/11 is but one of a number of tragic events that have taken place in the world in recent years.
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Re: Offseason on "the Gridiron"
« Reply #80 on: Dec 1st, 2005, 1:36pm »
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I would generally agree with Jeff.  
 
When you log on to the page, it seems that the team links are what the site is about.  While they are VERY important and add a LOT of value, the forums are what is the critical meat of the site.  (in my opinion) Granted, there is a HUGE link to the forums, but my attention is drawn to all the team reports because they are so colorful.   So I would recommend either consolidating them, or maybe moving them.  However, either way, I do not think they should get too buried cause they do provide a lot of value.
 
As far as the 9/11 smiley, I believe you know my opinion.  I think it should be removed.
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Re: Offseason on "the Gridiron"
« Reply #81 on: Dec 1st, 2005, 1:39pm »
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I've also discussed this with you before to some extent, but in case you've forgotten my thoughts...
 
I believe that the Gridiron should have an "Index" or "Home" page, with links to everything else that exists on other pages.
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Re: Offseason on "the Gridiron"
« Reply #82 on: Dec 1st, 2005, 10:48pm »
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Thanks for the thought-filled responses, fellas!
 
on Dec 1st, 2005, 9:51am, steelkings wrote:
I think it would be wise to include a Site rules or etiquitte link. It seems to me that alot of time is spent (rightfully) on moving things or explaining things to the newbies. I.E. it took me forever to figure out that I could search   for archived info before starting a new redundent thread. I had to be slapped around by the moderator a few times before I got it.   Being slapped by the moderator did 3 things. It helped to keep the site clean yes, but it made me originally feel that the site ownership was being overly pretencious and insulting. I didnt see the ultimate goal and I just wasnt used to this style of forums. It also took time away from the moderators who otherwise could have used said time for their own enjoyment.  This site operates differently from any other.   I was insulted because I didnt understand what better actually was. It would be nice to point people to a front page Etiquitte and rules area instead of refering to posted threads that newbies wont pursue by themselves anyway. I was close to leaving and never coming back. Fortunatly I had the patients to sit back and see the big picture. I wonder how many people we have lost who could share valuble insite because of their own lack of patients. You have to raise your children   slowly. Sorry for offering what you didn't ask for. Just trying to shed some light my brother.

 
sk, I think you are still not quite there (in grokking my modus operandi)...  "How" we go about this, not just the "what", is fundamental to the "effort".  Your proposal rests upon a couple, I firmly believe to be, faulty presuppositions and one incorrect assumption...  First, if dudes aren't reading the message-board descriptions with due diligence, who is to say that they are going to read some generalized, likely VERY long-winded preface explaining the rules of etiquette of the forum?!?!  I just don't see it happening.  The problem dudes, the ones who don't pay attention to the message-board descriptions, will be the same ones who won't read that either, and meanwhile I've just given the "good ones" more (unnecessary) shit to sift through.  Secondly, this all presupposes that etiquette on "the Gridiron" is black-and-white enough that it can even be explained, moreover, in less than 10 pages.  I knew it never could; hence, the tack we take.  Lastly, dudes who are turned off by and run away because of their threads' being moved or locked, mind you, usually with very gracious messages appended by the moderators explaining why, and, in the case of moved threads, with automatic move notices, are NOT dudes I want to be part of the foundation of "the Gridiron".  If you (not you, sk,... the generalized "you") can't handle your thread's being moved along with a kind message explaining why and an automatically provided move notice linking to its new location, you need to get a grip.  If you can't, there are any of a multitude of lawless FF forums out there for you to inhabit.  Ultimately, the effect of this process is that I know pretty much without doubt the dudes who do stay on a) "get it" (like you finally did) and b) are stable, healthy-minded people.  The forum is just a little over three-years-old.  I'm fine with the number of members we have and, furthermore, I love the across-the-board quality of person we attract.  That reality will pay off HUGE dividends in the long-run.
 
on Dec 1st, 2005, 12:52pm, Philly wrote:
Maybe the Reports could be indicated with a header and a team helmet or logo indicating each team.  I too think that they take up a bit too much space.  They're getting the prime real estate, above the fold, as it were, when the message board is the heart and soul of the site. I'd also remove the borders from the table.

 
A couple notes here...  The table just doesn't look good without the borders.  I tried it.  It just looked terrible,... like the links were floating out there disorganizedly.  Regarding the helmet/logo suggestion, you have to know what my response is there.  I'm always VERY sensitive to infringing on NFL-licensed stuff.  I don't like sites that do it (and I think they end up paying the price for it).  A javacscript-driven header from which a drop-down menu of links appears is what I am thinking... both for the "FF-specific Team Reports" AND for our "Other Featured Content".  But, that definitely takes us down the path of concealment of the extras for the sake of what really amounts to about two-and-a-half inches (a key two-and-a-half inches, mind you; that's why this is even being discussed, but two-and-a-half inches, nevertheless).
 
on Dec 1st, 2005, 1:39pm, Philly wrote:
I believe that the Gridiron should have an "Index" or "Home" page, with links to everything else that exists on other pages.

 
NO, I have NOT!  I still have the old graphic you sent me and am starting to really give it a "hard look".  ...  This is ultimately the direction I see us going in, BUT this move is going to have to be VERY well-thought-through and I do not think we are quite there yet.
 
...
 
At this very moment, I tend to be most agreeable with Jim's "conservative" take.  But, I still want to hear people out.  CONTINUE THE DISCUSSION...
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Re: Offseason on "the Gridiron"
« Reply #83 on: Dec 1st, 2005, 10:48pm »
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1. The team reports are a great feature, one that definitely catches the attention of new visitors, but things are getting congested up there and they can be a lot to digest when bunched together with all the other information. I would suggest a link that takes you to a page that specifically showcases the team report feature that the site offers. I think it's big enough to stand on its own.  
 
2. Keep the smiley. If it was important enough to put it there, then it's important enough to leave it. I feel something every time I see it, and it reminds me of what's important. Plus, it just looks cool.
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Re: Offseason on "the Gridiron"
« Reply #84 on: Dec 2nd, 2005, 12:05am »
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on Dec 1st, 2005, 10:48pm, Walker Boh wrote:
1. The team reports are a great feature, one that definitely catches the attention of new visitors

 
The team reports are what initially attracted me to this site. It gives the site a more "professional" feel. To my knowledge the Gridiron is the only site that has this, and that's a plus in my book. Let me explain what I mean. For instance...every forum you log onto, you generally are going there to get opinions on who to start, who to trade for, etc. etc. The new user may see it as any old "Joe" could be answering their question. The team report section gives them that info and more and the sense that a pro is working on it. It also (I guess I can generally speak here) shows that the particular team had been studied by the correspondent and cuts to the chase of those questions that a user was signing on for. It just seems like the info. involved is less guessing and more educated...if that makes sense. I don't think that it detracts from or keeps newbies or anyone else from still posting questions as originally designed, but it adds a sense of professionalism in my opinion. Could it be polished up some? or moved? I'm sure it could and will keep evolving, but I do like it and it is what my co-workers are always reading when I see them logged on to the Gridiron.  
« Last Edit: Dec 2nd, 2005, 10:09pm by MordecaiCourage » Logged
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Re: Offseason on "the Gridiron"
« Reply #85 on: Dec 2nd, 2005, 8:35am »
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Quote:
sk, I think you are still not quite there (in grokking my modus operandi)...  "How" we go about this, not just the "what", is fundamental to the "effort".  Your proposal rests upon a couple, I firmly believe to be, faulty presuppositions and one incorrect assumption...  First, if dudes aren't reading the message-board descriptions with due diligence, who is to say that they are going to read some generalized, likely VERY long-winded preface explaining the rules of etiquette of the forum?!?!  I just don't see it happening.  The problem dudes, the ones who don't pay attention to the message-board descriptions, will be the same ones who won't read that either, and meanwhile I've just given the "good ones" more (unnecessary) shit to sift through.  Secondly, this all presupposes that etiquette on "the Gridiron" is black-and-white enough that it can even be explained, moreover, in less than 10 pages.  I knew it never could; hence, the tack we take.  Lastly, dudes who are turned off by and run away because of their threads' being moved or locked, mind you, usually with very gracious messages appended by the moderators explaining why, and, in the case of moved threads, with automatic move notices, are NOT dudes I want to be part of the foundation of "the Gridiron".  If you (not you, sk,... the generalized "you") can't handle your thread's being moved along with a kind message explaining why and an automatically provided move notice linking to its new location, you need to get a grip.  If you can't, there are any of a multitude of lawless FF forums out there for you to inhabit.  Ultimately, the effect of this process is that I know pretty much without doubt the dudes who do stay on a) "get it" (like you finally did) and b) are stable, healthy-minded people.  The forum is just a little over three-years-old.  I'm fine with the number of members we have and, furthermore, I love the across-the-board quality of person we attract.  That reality will pay off HUGE dividends in the long-run.  

 
I usually don't involve myself with this kind of thread for obvious reasons. I really wasn't sure about posting the original reply to your initial question. After furthar review, I went back through the registration process and everything I asked about was there. Its basically all written in plain english. I didn't even need my Stegeman decoder Thesaurus and Dictionary to understand it. Well anyway, I'll try and not let anymore University of Illinois moments happen again.
 
 
STEELKINGS
 
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Re: Offseason on "the Gridiron"
« Reply #86 on: Dec 2nd, 2005, 9:53pm »
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i think that all in all it looks good.  the forums are what got me here!  if there was a way to reduce the size of the team previews and a way to determine which were for the current week, i would be all for it.  with all respect to 9/11, i will not forget and think we can move on.  looking good and thanks for asking for input!
 
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Re: Offseason on "the Gridiron"
« Reply #87 on: Dec 5th, 2005, 7:12pm »
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As Steg can confirm, I'm not the Gridironer to comment on how to set up anything in web-speak. I'm not a linear person. I'm a concept person. And I do love to see the newbies. So....
 
I'd like to see the search feature as a more prominent thing - just to get people into the info they want so they will learn how much we have for them. As for the 9/11 smiley, we've seen how many first responders we have around here ( THANK YOU!!!! ), and I always want to honor all of the honorable. What do you guys think about revolving smileys that honor the many branches of service and all of those who do the generous tasks who take the risks and do the work that keeps us safe?
 
Just a thought.
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Re: Offseason on "the Gridiron"
« Reply #88 on: Dec 5th, 2005, 10:08pm »
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on Dec 5th, 2005, 7:12pm, Callie wrote:
What do you guys think about revolving smileys that honor the many branches of service and all of those who do the generous tasks who take the risks and do the work that keeps us safe?
 
Just a thought.

 
I think that's a great idea!!! Don't know how easy it would be on Steg   to rotate something like that in, but it is an HONORABLE thing to do!
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Re: Offseason on "the Gridiron"
« Reply #89 on: Jan 2nd, 2006, 7:44am »
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Hey, all!  Any (quick) thoughts about the teeny-tiny little tweak (relatively speaking) that I made to the stuff at the top of the page, most notably the "Fantasy Football-specific Team Reports" section of links and the "featured" links?  I changed the font size, and the font in the case of the reports links.  Is everything "acceptably readable"?  On my screen, it's totally good to go, but... what about on yours???
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Re: Offseason on "the Gridiron"
« Reply #90 on: Jan 2nd, 2006, 9:44am »
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I changed the font size, and the font in the case of the reports links.  Is everything "acceptably readable"?

 
The team names look kind of small and scrunchy on my screen, maybe if you turned off the bold attribute ?  
 
(I don't have a fancy monitor however, I believe it's a 15")
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Re: Offseason on "the Gridiron"
« Reply #91 on: Jan 2nd, 2006, 5:05pm »
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on Jan 2nd, 2006, 9:44am, junkyardjake wrote:
The team names look kind of small and scrunchy on my screen, maybe if you turned off the bold attribute ?
 
(I don't have a fancy monitor however, I believe it's a 15")

 
Good comment... That is exactly my greatest area of concern.  They do look a bit scrunched together, and I am DEFINITELY willing to turn off the "bold" attribute.  The damnedest thing is... I like the (scrunched) look (that bolding "Arial Black" produces).  I think it looks cool. When I turn off the bold attribute, it looks less scrunched, BUT to my eye it looks less cool.  Also,... and this is of a bit more substance,... the thickness of the letters allows some of the finely-tuned colors I'm trying to work with there against the black background to come through better.  When bold is removed, it, of course, looks less scrunched, but then the team names themselves that are in colors, like dark gray or blue, for which the tight-rope walk is quite thin, aren't nearly as clear.  It's the thickness of the letters that seems to give them a (fighting) chance of still jumping off the screen.  That said, anybody else have a problem, objectively or subjectively speaking, with the scrunched look of the team-report links?
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Re: Offseason on "the Gridiron"
« Reply #92 on: Jan 2nd, 2006, 7:05pm »
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I can defintely read the team reports, however, they look kind of blurry to me.  The letter 'O' is a big round solid circle.  'V' is an upside down solid triangle, etc....
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Re: Offseason on "the Gridiron"
« Reply #93 on: Jan 2nd, 2006, 7:19pm »
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Okay,... I am going to quickly change it (DD).  Tell me if it's better...
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Re: Offseason on "the Gridiron"
« Reply #94 on: Jan 2nd, 2006, 7:22pm »
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on Jan 2nd, 2006, 7:19pm, StegRock wrote:
Okay,... I am going to quickly change it (DD). Tell me if it's better...

 
Better?  ...  Or, better, but now worse in a different way?
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Re: Offseason on "the Gridiron"
« Reply #95 on: Jan 2nd, 2006, 7:43pm »
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on Jan 2nd, 2006, 7:22pm, StegRock wrote:

 
Better? ... Or, better, but now worse in a different way?

 
BETTER!!!!
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Re: Offseason on "the Gridiron"
« Reply #96 on: Jan 2nd, 2006, 7:50pm »
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on Jan 2nd, 2006, 7:43pm, DirkDiggler wrote:
BETTER!!!!

 

 
Thanks, DD, JYJ!
 
Where else can you see your input make such an immediate impact???  See or should I say "don't see" what happens after you put a crinkled customer opinion form in the "suggestion box" with all the gum wrappers in it at your local Walmart!!!
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Re: Offseason on "the Gridiron"
« Reply #97 on: Jan 2nd, 2006, 7:52pm »
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I do have a suggestion....why not eliminate the section that states junior correspondents and senior correspondents?  Then you will have more room for the team names.
 
OR, make the font small on junior and senior correspondents?  OR wrap text and make the box smaller for correspondents?  
 
I personnally think the more important information is the reports, and not the correspondent info.  Again, this is only my opinion.......
 
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Re: Offseason on "the Gridiron"
« Reply #98 on: Jan 2nd, 2006, 8:24pm »
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Putting the old guy to work here today, huh???
 
Anyway, Voila!!!  Your wish is my command!!!
 
The bottom line is that it was a good, thoughtful suggestion...  Thank you, DD!
 
BUT this is work for me...  You want to help keep it going...
 
http://www.fantasyfootballer.com/donate.htm.
 
That said, do NOT hold back any other (reasonable) suggestions.  I'm just, yet again, making sure that the bigger picture doesn't get lost in the shuffle... I'm doing a constant "cost-benefit" juggling act here... that I explain vividly on the "Site Donors" thread, which every good, well-intentioned Gridironer should visit on a semi-regular basis...
 
http://www.fantasyfootballer.com/cgi-bin/theGridiron/YaBB.cgi?board=58;a ction=display;num=1068780634;start=25.
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Re: Offseason on "the Gridiron"
« Reply #99 on: Jan 2nd, 2006, 9:04pm »
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Quote:
Anyway, Voila!!!  Your wish is my command!!!  
 
The bottom line is that it was a good, thoughtful suggestion...  Thank you, DD!  

 
LOOKS GREAT!!!!  Thanks Steg!!    
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