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Rush... to judgment!
« on: Oct 1st, 2003, 2:53pm » |
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I actually like Rush Limbaugh as a political commentator. I definitely do NOT always agree with him, but his logical reasoning skills are superb and his incendiary commentary entertaining in the least. I do NOT, however, like him on Sunday NFL Countdown. His presence seems awkward to me and he does not bring anything of "real" value to the show as I see it. BUT, here's what's currently topping "The REAL Feed" and according to the pieces, ESPN has Rush's back and, moreover, the show's ratings are up and it allegedly has (a lot) to do with the addition of Limbaugh:
ESPN backs Limbaugh
USA Today: Sports (01.10.2003 13:12)
PHILADELPHIA - Donovan McNabb is a three-time Pro Bowler and was runner-up for NFL MVP. Still, some critics question his credentials. Before McNabb led the Eagles to a 23-13 victory over the Bills on S...
Limbaugh-McNabb Controversy
WPVI: Sports (01.10.2003 13:02)
Before McNabb led the Philadelphia Eagles to a 23-13 victory over the Buffalo Bills on Sunday, commentator Rush Limbaugh said on ESPN's "Sunday NFL Countdown" that the fifth-year quarterback is overrated. Limbaugh's comments sparked controversy for their racial overtones.
Any thoughts, fellas? 
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| « Last Edit: Oct 1st, 2003, 2:53pm by Stegfucius » |
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UFF Primetime Prophet
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Re: Rush... to judgment!
« Reply #2 on: Oct 1st, 2003, 3:35pm » |
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I agree with Steg on this one... Rush Limbaugh is a very insightful and able political commentator, but his NFL fan-dom does not necessarily make him an authority on football.
He said that McNabb was overrated, which he very well may be. The Eagles defense and special teams over the past 2-3 years have certainly made things much easier for McNabb. Regardless of the play of any other position, the QB gets too much credit and too much blame for the successes and failures of the team.
But Rush said the reason why McNabb is overrated is because of a social justice of the media (of which Rush apparently forgets he is a part of now). The media wants a black QB to succeed?
Does anyone remember McNabb's stats from last year (10 regular season games played)?
86.0 QB Rating
211-361 (58.4%) 2289 yards
17 TDs - 6 INTs
63 rushes - 460 yards - 6 TDs
Those look like decent numbers to me considering his supporting cast. The completion % should be higher in a WCO system. But McNabb didn't make mistakes to hurt the team. (Any idea how many INTs Manning threw?)
Rush's statement was ludicrous. Why would the media want McNabb to succeed because he is black? Why aren't they championing the cause of Quincy Carter if that is the case? I don't think anyone would be surprised to hear how critical the Philadelphia media has been of McNabb when he throws short passes 5 yards short or 5 yards over someone's head...
If Rush said the NFL wants the black QB to succeed, it might have slightly more credence, although that only seems applicable to head coaches right now.
Rush is a very intelligent man and is a tremendous debater, but his facts are wrong in this argument. I don't think he said anything racist, but I think he is accusing others of a reverse racism that is inaccurate.
ESPN will stand behind him because ratings of NFL Countdown have risen quite substantially (and will do so even more now that Rush is making ridiculous comments).
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| « Last Edit: Oct 1st, 2003, 3:37pm by Philly » |
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Re: Rush... to judgment!
« Reply #3 on: Oct 1st, 2003, 5:25pm » |
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I think the comment was definately racist. He didn't just say "he was overrated". He said and meant a lot more than that. He said McNabb was being all hyped up because of one thing, the color of his skin, and that the hype was unwarranted. Maybe it came out wrong, but the way it came out was racist. 
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Philosopher King
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Re: Rush... to judgment!
« Reply #4 on: Oct 1st, 2003, 5:57pm » |
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Well, I will quickly add this... There is a difference between "racist" (a misnomer in and of itself as we are all in the human "race"; we are really talking about ethnicity) comments and statements of fact that involve "racial" (again, a misnomer) realities or premises. In America, our "liberal" oversensitivity has its costs, for one just the acknowledgment of "particular" harsh, but nevertheless true, realities, the lack of acknowledgment of which is causing us to live/exist in an "unreal" American bubble of inaccurate and inconsistent hyperbole.
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Re: Rush... to judgment!
« Reply #5 on: Oct 1st, 2003, 6:17pm » |
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on Oct 1st, 2003, 5:57pm, StegRock wrote:| Well, I will quickly add this... There is a difference between "racist" (a misnomer in and of itself as we are all in the human "race"; we are really talking about ethnicity) comments and statements of fact that involve "racial" (again, a misnomer) realities or premises. In America, our "liberal" oversensitivity has its costs, for one just the acknowledgment of "particular" harsh, but nevertheless true, realities, the lack of acknowledgment of which is causing us to live/exist in an "unreal" American bubble of inaccurate and inconsistent hyperbole. |
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As elucidated by the statements proffered by Limbaugh, the crux of the issue is not the determination if the aforementioned is, verily, a "racist," but, conversely, if his assertion is, indeed, accurate. While factual, the illustration tendered by Limbaugh, is, in effect, flawed as a consequence of a lack of prerequisite legitimacy.
I hope that clears things up.
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Re: Rush... to judgment!
« Reply #8 on: Oct 1st, 2003, 8:26pm » |
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on Oct 1st, 2003, 5:25pm, DB wrote:| I think the comment was definately racist. He didn't just say "he was overrated". He said and meant a lot more than that. He said McNabb was being all hyped up because of one thing, the color of his skin, and that the hype was unwarranted. Maybe it came out wrong, but the way it came out was racist. |
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"I think what we've had here is a little social concern in the NFL. The media has been very desirous that a black quarterback do well," Limbaugh said. "There is a little hope invested in McNabb, and he got a lot of credit for the performance of this team that he didn't deserve. The defense carried this team."
How can anyone percieve that as racist?
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| « Last Edit: Oct 1st, 2003, 8:27pm by Keyshawn Johnson 76yards » |
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Democratic presidential caRe: Rush... to judgment!
« Reply #10 on: Oct 1st, 2003, 8:44pm » |
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Quote:| How can anyone percieve that as racist? |
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Well,  , you may think he didn't mean it that way, but if you don't see how it can be perceived that way ...  ....
The perception is clear. As quoted in an article I read:
"Democratic presidential candidate Wesley Clark urged ESPN to fire Limbaugh. Clark, a retired Army general who entered the race Sept. 17, called the remarks "hateful and ignorant speech."
In a letter to ESPN, Clark said, "There can be no excuse for such statements. Mr. Limbaugh has the right to say whatever he wants, but ABC and ESPN have no obligation to sponsor such hateful and ignorant speech. Mr. Limbaugh should be fired immediately."
Another Democratic candidate, Howard Dean, echoed Clark's sentiment to fire Limbaugh.
"To imply that the success of African-American is an undeserved gift from a biased media is absurd and offensive," Dean said in a statement.
NAACP president and CEO Kweisi Mfume suggested that if Limbaugh isn't fired, ESPN should at least provide an opposing point of view during the Sunday Countdown show.
"What's almost as bad as Limbaugh's comments is ESPN's feeble defense for putting him on the air," Mfume said in a statement. "If this is the future of ESPN, I think fair-minded fans, who tune in for sports news coverage, and not for racist views, should get their sports on other networks. It is appalling that ESPN has to go to this extent to try to increase viewership."
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Philosopher King
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Re: Rush... to judgment!
« Reply #11 on: Oct 1st, 2003, 8:45pm » |
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And, what about freedom of speech and expression now, folks? It might have been an imprudent statement made at an inauspicious time, but he certainly does not deserve to be fired because of it and, moreover, people should not be asking for that. That's whack! That having been said, as per my original post, his job should be in jeopardy on more "substantive" grounds, a la Dennis Miller. But, then again, it's all about the almighty  and ratings are up!
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Philosopher King
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Re: Rush... to judgment!
« Reply #13 on: Oct 1st, 2003, 9:40pm » |
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on Oct 1st, 2003, 9:26pm, Callie wrote:| However, this is about Fantasy Football. |
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Well, this isn't about fantasy football, actually. As such, it is on "the Sidelines"!
on Oct 1st, 2003, 9:26pm, Callie wrote:If I were to talk about political racism in Fantasy Football the way you have talked in this thread, I might ask you, why don't Clark and Dean and Mfume adress the massive slave trade in the Middle East and Africa where thousands of people of all races are bought and sold. Or, if a soccer team in Iraq can stop worrying about being tortured if they lose.
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Enjoy your freedom, but use it responsibly. |
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Now, I don't know who the "you" is that you are directing this toward. If it's me, I'm confused. ??? In any event, though, thumbs  up on IT ALL! You are right on the mark, friend! 
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steelkings
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The problem is not that Rush( Who is a jerk off anyway) put his foot in his mouth. Its not that Berman didnt soften it as he said. Its the fact that this show doesn't preview the games anymore. Two weeks ago the Steelers played the Chefs in what was the biggest game of the week at the time. All they could talk about was how Joey porter was (Forrest gump voice) shot in the buttocks. This was it. No comments about the size differance of linemen between the 2 teams. Nothing. Just Porter was shot in the ass. If they preview the Philly / Bills game maybe they talk about Mcnabb playing behind a makeshift line while he hands the ball to a hold out back. Dimwit Limbone thinks we over rated Mcnabb because he's black. I dont think so. I think we over rated Mcnabb because they were supposed to go to the superbowl. Get back to hosts that have something to offer about the game. It George w. starts running between the tackles i'll listen to Limpbone. Furthermore. Is it me or is Michael Irvin 1 or 2 straws full of coke from being a complete dumb ass! As you can tell. I like that show less and less all the time.
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Re: Rush... to judgment!
« Reply #18 on: Oct 2nd, 2003, 9:55am » |
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Here's a link to Rush's resignation for those who don't have an account with the NY Times...
http://msn.espn.go.com/gen/news/2003/1001/1628537.html
-------------------------------
Wow... lots of fun things going on with Rush...
Now he apparently has an Oxycotin addiction on top of it all. (I can see the NY Post headline tomorrow: "Oxy-moron")...
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The more I thought about the Rush-Donovan issue, the more I realized that, although he's been challenged on the issue, Rush has never effectively defended his original assertion: that the media has overrated McNabb because they want to see a black QB succeed.
On his own show yesterday (from which Rush preaches from a bully pulpit) Rush merely said he must have been right because it caused such a stir among sportswriters. Flawed logic at its very best...
I am very familiar with the sports media in Philadelphia. And, if Rush is correct, wouldn't the Philadelphia media be the ones overrating McNabb the most (since they write about him the most)? While they've all come to Donovan's defense in this issue, they certainly never failed to criticize McNabb for his play in the past, yet never tied his failures to his race.
(I guess Rush is a color-commentator too?)
Oh well, this should all die down by the end of the day.
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| « Last Edit: Oct 2nd, 2003, 9:56am by Philly » |
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Re: Rush... to judgment!
« Reply #20 on: Oct 2nd, 2003, 10:11am » |
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Quote:| for a person to say his statements make him racist is also IGNORANT. (SO save it DB). |
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 OK, I'm ignorant.... that's a strong comeback! . Your persuasive argument convinced me that the statements have nothing to do with race and cannot be read to imply that McNabb got too much credit because he's black. How can I be so stupid. Thank you for pointing this out.
Quote:| Donovan said it best..."I thought we were through with this"... |
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Your quoting McNabb was the nail in my argument's coffin. It is not like McNabb took offense and came out against Rush because I'm sure you would have mentioned those comments as well.
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Re: Rush... to judgment!
« Reply #21 on: Oct 2nd, 2003, 10:46am » |
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First off, Limbaugh comments are wrong anyway regardless of if McNabb is black or white. If he does believe that McNabb is overrated, he should have left it at that. There was no reason to bring McNabb's race into.
I am white, but if I were black, I would have taken this comment as a slap in the face. Limbaugh slams McNabb's ability and than says the main reason McNabb is thought of as a top player in the league is because of his race at the position he plays. That's crazy. Last I counted, there have been nine black quarterbacks that have started games this year. Are they all overrated? I think not. Skin color should not have even been an issue.
I don't neccessarily believe the comment itself was rascist, but it was uncalled for. No matter what color Donovan is, it was a poor assessment of his skills as a professional football player.
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| « Last Edit: Oct 2nd, 2003, 11:51am by BarnabyWilde » |
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Re: Rush... to judgment!
« Reply #23 on: Oct 2nd, 2003, 12:17pm » |
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Man, ALL this McNabb hype on this very thread is practically proving Rush's point! Outside of somewhat of a burst last season, which, by the way, included NO 300-yard passing games (remember the main/distinguishing attribute of a "quarterback" is throwing the ball), and his Randall Cunningham-like ability to run, which, by the way, is surpassed by a healthy Michael Vick, he has been statistically mediocre, notwithstanding the fact that we, in the fantasy world, typically award more points for rushing yardage and touchdowns than passing yardage and touchdowns.  Yea, he hasn't had a great set of receivers to work with (as most see it... though I don't totally agree with that claim), but don't the truly great ones (and not just statistically speaking, so as to cover all bases here), like Favre, Montana, Elway, Aikman, etc., etc., make those around them great, not just themselves. I mean Donovan is good at making Donovan look good, but that's just about it if you think about it undogmatically, at least in the big picture/the long-run... all you hear about regarding the Philly offense is Donovan, Donovan, Donovan, and, oh, by the way, a weak O-line that can't block for Donovan, a poor receiving corp that can't catch Donovan's passes, and a lackluster set of running backs that don't really keep the defense from focusing on Donovan. Look, fellas, do we look back now and think of Randall Cunningham as a great quarterback? Not at all, not if you are truly objective about it! He didn't win squat, really; he didn't last long, and when his legs gave out with age as will always inevitably happen with these running quarterbacks, he showed that he could not really fulfill a more traditional and arguably more prototypical quarterback role, despite a short-lived stint with another team, the first "greatest show on turf" in Minnesota, with whom I could have even tossed for a buck 50 a game. 
So, do I think McNabb is overhyped? Somewhat! I mean look at Brad Johnson, a demure, good-natured, homeboy, who, oh, by the way, just led his team to a Super Bowl Championship after having been written-off by most, and, who, oh, by the way, you never even hear about anymore, at least relatively speaking. As for Rush's comment about McNabb's being black as part of his being overhyped. I don't know... Yes, Favre, Plummer and Gannon are getting quite a bit of media attention paid to them these days, BUT I would say that McNabb, Vick, Culpepper, McNair and Leftwich, in particular, do get an awful lot of (disproportionate) attention vis-a-vis Brunell, Johnson, Green, Collins and Boller, to draw equivalent parallels, who seem to be in similarish situations with those guys. Maybe that's splitting hairs, but... I can see it a little bit. Does their being black have something to do with it? Is "the media desirous for a black quarterback to succeed"... and if so, why? Are we as a nation overall desirous for such... and if so, why? I frankly don't know... But, as for the yes-no part of the question, perhaps! I wouldn't rule it completely out! And, could it deal with a VERY ill-fated guilt complex over slavery paybacks that is making us weak at the knees when facing the harsh truths of life on Earth, not just in America, anymore? Very possibly! And, is that an ugly thing to intimate and confront? Definitely, obviously! Nevertheless, was his comment still ill-advised? Surely! But, is the "public" reaction to it and ultimate end result commensurate and proper? Hell no! Dusty Baker's managing in the baseball playoffs, for God's sake! What's good for the goose doesn't seem to be good for the gander here and freedom of speech and expression seems only to apply when we... "they" want it to, i.e. when the likes of, e.g., the great Rev. Al Sharpton evokes it. Go ahead, Brittney and Madonna, tongue it away for all of our kids to see and move on not only undaunted and basically untarnished, but even more popular! That doesn't piss off the ACLU or the NAACP (why should it ... just crazy white folk) or NOW (shouldn't it ??? ) or Oprah ( ) or (insert name of any given like-minded victims' group that you can "come up with" here), so it's ALL GOOD!  Let the extreme porn industry hide behind Amendment 1 and let the Ten Commandments be crucified at the hands of a deluded "separation of church and state" argument, BUT the already well-known, fairly ultra-conservative, Rush Limbaugh, who, granted, shouldn't even be on Sunday NFL Countdown to begin with, makes a "dicey" comment that may "touch upon" some ugly truth "of the state of things", OFF WITH HIS HEAD!
God damn it... To come down, I need to pop in a good ole' rape-n-snuff flick, rip up a Bible and, hell, for good measure, where do I sign up for that lawsuit against McDonald's?
"They killed Kenny!"-  -"You bastards!"
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| « Last Edit: Oct 2nd, 2003, 1:50pm by Stegfucius » |
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