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        Outside the Lines >> Forum Archives >>  One league gone!
        
(Message started by: StegRock on May 11th, 2003, 1:56pm)
Title: One league gone!
Post by StegRock on May 11th, 2003, 1:56pm
Guys,

Check your e-mails as soon as reasonably possible!  I have sent you all an urgent message!  After perusing it, you will see that one league is out of the FFLA.  Please remove that league's logo(s) and link(s) from your respective sites.  More information is contained in the e-mail and if you have further questions, feel free to jet them at me.  If they are of the innocuous variety, feel free to ask them here.  If not, out of respect to all parties involved, I would suggest asking such questions privately by e-mail, but of course, you can send them to everybody.  You are even welcome to call me as my e-mail indicates.  Well, be in touch!  I am...

...Sincerely,
Steve Stegeman
Commissioner & Webmaster, GBRFL/CBFL
Title: Re: One league gone!
Post by PA Outlaws on May 12th, 2003, 8:31am
Bye Bye! Won't be missed!  [smiley=flipoffangrily.gif]
Title: Re: One league gone!
Post by BarnabyWilde on May 12th, 2003, 8:35am
No loss! See ya biznatch!
Title: Re: One league gone!
Post by DBFFL_Commish on May 12th, 2003, 11:48am
What a joke, I am not sure what exactally was told to you all but I am sure it isn't the whole truth. Anywho I am glad to be rid of this lame attempt to rival FFtoday.com That website is far better then this and the rest of you would be wise to get rid of StegRock as soon as possible for he is nothing but trouble.

[smiley=moon.gif]
Title: Re: One league gone!
Post by PA Outlaws on May 12th, 2003, 11:54am
First of all, FFtoday is NOW a joke! It used to be a good, quality site. People like you are probably the ones who ruined it. There is absolutely no intelligent conversation to be found there. Post something and you get nothing but sarcasm, belittlement, and ridicule. At least here, there are INTELLIGENT football minds. You can get good, sound information and advice without the bullshit! We are better off without your kind here. Do us all a favor and stay over at FFtoday and spill your garbage there.  [smiley=wave.gif]
Title: Re: One league gone!
Post by DBFFL_Commish on May 12th, 2003, 1:53pm

on 05/12/03 at 11:54:38, PA Outlaws wrote:
First of all, FFtoday is NOW a joke! It used to be a good, quality site. People like you are probably the ones who ruined it. There is absolutely no intelligent conversation to be found there. Post something and you get nothing but sarcasm, belittlement, and ridicule. At least here, there are INTELLIGENT football minds. You can get good, sound information and advice without the bullshit! We are better off without your kind here. Do us all a favor and stay over at FFtoday and spill your garbage there.  [smiley=wave.gif]


It isn't a joke, the joke is you. Maybe the reason you get the sarcasm and belittlement is becuase you don't ask any intelligent questions. You post senseless drabble that doesn't mean anything worth while to read.
Title: Re: One league gone!
Post by StegRock on May 12th, 2003, 2:51pm

on 05/12/03 at 11:48:24, DBFFL_Commish wrote:
BLAH... BLAH... BLAH... [smiley=moon.gif]


[smiley=dick.bmp]

I really, truly want to drop this, but, though I appreciate what these guys are doing, I really do not want them sticking their heads out and taking bullets for me.  So, I will stand up and be a man, something which if you had done with your league members, something I implored you to do, would have prevented this all from degenerating the way it did.  Don't you see, Shawn, that this Ryan pal of yours (and a couple cohorts he recruited) led you down the wrong path here?  It may be cool to have a trash-talker like that in your league; we all like to have at least one of those, but that is not how you comport yourself in real life or business which is what his dealings with me should have reflected.  When it did not, you should have taken a strong stand.  He did not really relent until I just gave up; a tactic you told me would work.  Well, you never ended up really doing anything much to quell the situation, at least nothing that worked, actually wanted no part of it all as I recall and have documented, and leaving well enough alone eventually didn't work with this asshole as we saw 14 or so days later this past Saturday night, and I, the guy busting his hump here with all this, continued to be the punching bag.

I also had a sneaky suspicion that somehow you were going to make an attempt to make me look bad here.  Overall, what I wrote both above and in the letter I sent out to the guys was "fairly" innocuous, but I did point out that I thought you would try to make me look bad and that deleting all the relevant posts over on your boards could be part of that.  And, well, what do you go do right on my own site that I have worked on so hard for so long?  That's just straight-up fucked-up, dude!  But, thanks for following through for me and confirming my suspicion. ;)

The bottom line here, though, Shawn, is that I have every single correspondence that went down, e-mails and message boards, saved; pardon me, I had saved the DBFFL message-board pages before your member "Hostile Intentions" chimed in and bent me over.  His two posts are the only two pieces of correspondence I don't have saved.  Every single other piece I have saved and it all paints a clear picture.  As I stated before, I will state again, these are available to anyone who would like to peruse them, and, yes, a couple guys already have seen what went on, i.e. the treatment I received, on the DBFFL boards.  The one piece I did forward to them all was a final e-mail from your "league founder" Ryan that pretty much sums everything up pretty well.

Shawn, I wanted to get your attention and, yes, my final e-mail was a bit harsh.  I finally blew a gasket, which was extremely justified and could have been anticipated when Ryan brought his shit over here specifically to the GBRFL board and naming himself Stegrocks_Owner.  Don't you get it?  Ryan, not you, not me... Ryan is the big weiner [smiley=LMFAO.gif] , I mean winner, here, and that is a shame.  We ARE, from the ground up, building something special here which will very well benefit all of us, possibly monetarily, whether you want to see that fact or not!  But, it is going to take "cooperation and consideration" to get there.  But, instead, in this case, the great Ryan got what he wanted, which is for you to pull out of the FFLA and, moreover, get back at me for your originally backing me up and asking him to send me that apology e-mail, which, yes, I have saved.  Of course, at this point it was hard to justify/explain the FFLA to him or anyone for that matter because you had apparently never done so.  In any event, his apologizing to me at your request must have been a VERY humbling experience for him that he festered over, although he continued bashing me with his posts over on your boards.  Well, he knew he would get my goat with that message of his here, and he was right.  It was a Saturday night; I was having an enjoyable, relaxing night hangin' out, and that was the straw that broke the camel's back and, yes, I flipped.  I must admit, though, that he did kind of dig the DBFFL's grave with his post about ditching that stupid FFLA thing.  Point being, after the beating I had been taking combined with my feeling that the DBFFL is better off going its own way, I let it fly.  But, make no mistakes, though I used some vituperative language, nothing of what I wrote was "not understandable" given the events that led up to it, which Ryan's final "Ha!  Ha!  I won" e-mail sums up perfectly.

...

As for FFToday, better, nah... more popular, sure, and they should be.  They have been around for ages; my little "behind-the-scenes" Gridiron has only been on the scene for a little over 8 months.  So,...[smiley=shrug.gif] You know nothing of my relationship with Mike over there, anyway.  I am still on his staff, for goodness sake, although I am not sure how much sense it really makes for me to write any more articles for him, so the one I did for him in November could be my last... by my choice.  Do your homework first, brother? ::)

...

Finally, guys, DON'T FEED INTO SHAWN AND LET THIS, OUR GOOD THING HERE, DEGENERATE!  He is miffed right now, understandably so!  Let's not provoke him and his "hatin' parade" that he is on!  Let him babble on to himself!  Don't respond [smiley=silence.gif] , moreover nastily,... and he will eventually go away... his way!  As my wife likes to say, "Bygones!"  Next,...
Title: Re: One league gone!
Post by PA Outlaws on May 12th, 2003, 3:52pm
Agreed Steg! Just don't like people hatin' on us!  [smiley=fumin.gif]
Title: Re: One league gone!
Post by StegRock on May 29th, 2003, 1:21pm
Fellas,

Now that this has died down, I wanted to say something to all of you...

Thank you, each and every one of you, for getting my back here.  I feel like I am trying to do good here, and I love and respect the individual contributions all of you are making to our awesome hobby by way of your great and unique leagues and sites and the devotion each of you exhibits, but I was a little worried that this might cause enough of a shake-up that our good thing might begin to break apart, moreover, if "they" tried to actively undermine me, which they actually attempted here above, but were cut off at the pass.  THANK YOU!  I appreciate all the support you all gave me by e-mail, and how quickly you did so, and I especially want to thank BW and PA for stickin' their necks out here on this thread.  Though I wanted to put a stop to things so as to avoid exacerbating the situation, it made me feel good to see a couple dudes go out on the limb for me here mainly because of the 4-on-1 DBFFL beating I had been taking theretofore.  With all of you, but with PA in particular, I felt like he was getting my back in a bar fight, and that was nice because that is the kind of guy I am.  Someone fucks with one of you guys, at least with regards to fantasy football, your sites, leagues or whatever, well, they're fuckin' with me too because I know (firsthand) the effort each of you is putting in, and I am not one to allow miserable mother fuckers to naysay people who are trying their best.  And, I ain't wearin' gloves.  I also want to thank you all for getting the DBFFL logo off your sites.  There is only one of you left (eh-hem, Jim [smiley=awwgee.gif]) who needs to take that nasty Dirty Bird down, but I understand the sitch and I know very well where you stand, BW. ;) Anyway, it was great that this went as smoothly as it did and that is thanks to each and every one of you. [smiley=bow.gif]

Your "Thankful... full" Friend,
Steve
Title: Re: One league gone!
Post by BarnabyWilde on May 29th, 2003, 8:14pm
You are quite welcome Steve.

And Todd is aware of the changes that need to be made. I hope he can get to them soon. I will keep on it!

Jim
Title: Re: One league gone!
Post by PA Outlaws on May 29th, 2003, 9:44pm
No thanks needed Steg! That's why we are here! We're all here for the love of the hobby and sport [smiley=smitten.gif] and to further this site and all of our own! I know you would have my back and I gladly will return the favor! Let's keep it going!  [smiley=strollin.gif]
Title: Re: One league gone!
Post by StegRock on May 31st, 2003, 3:38am

on 05/29/03 at 13:21:10, StegRock wrote:
Fellas,

Now that this has died down, I wanted to say something to all of you...

Thank you, each and every one of you, for getting my back here.  I feel like I am trying to do good here, and I love and respect the individual contributions all of you are making to our awesome hobby by way of your great and unique leagues and sites and the devotion each of you exhibits, but I was a little worried that this might cause enough of a shake-up that our good thing might begin to break apart, moreover, if "they" tried to actively undermine me, which they actually attempted here above, but were cut off at the pass.  THANK YOU!  I appreciate all the support you all gave me by e-mail, and how quickly you did so, and I especially want to thank BW and PA for stickin' their necks out here on this thread.  Though I wanted to put a stop to things so as to avoid exacerbating the situation, it made me feel good to see a couple dudes go out on the limb for me here mainly because of the 4-on-1 DBFFL beating I had been taking theretofore.  With all of you, but with PA in particular, I felt like he was getting my back in a bar fight, and that was nice because that is the kind of guy I am.  Someone fucks with one of you guys, at least with regards to fantasy football, your sites, leagues or whatever, well, they're fuckin' with me too because I know (firsthand) the effort each of you is putting in, and I am not one to allow miserable mother fuckers to naysay people who are trying their best.  And, I ain't wearin' gloves.  I also want to thank you all for getting the DBFFL logo off your sites.  There is only one of you left (eh-hem, Jim [smiley=awwgee.gif]) who needs to take that nasty Dirty Bird down, but I understand the sitch and I know very well where you stand, BW. ;) Anyway, it was great that this went as smoothly as it did and that is thanks to each and every one of you. [smiley=bow.gif]

Your "Thankful... full" Friend,
Steve


The timing of my posting the message above is going to turn out to be so ironic, unfortunately!  A briefing for now, I'm tired of being nice and obliging 99.9% of the time [smiley=tired.gif] and then being bent over and told to take it the .1% of the time I "react," read NOT cause, "respond," stand up for what I am doing here, for what I think is right and needs to be done, the sum total of which is this wonderful, positive, welcoming, active site we have!  Yea, it is like 2:15 in the morning right now and I don't want to ever feel like I feel right now, and I think I have identified the source.  Just about everybody on "the Gridiron", something from which I could profit very directly someday, is SO thankful to me when I do the littlest of things like add a little smiley or something.  With the FFLA, though, it seems like I could bend over backwards, break my back in the fucking process, pump your leagues up to people, and still end up getting grief and stress and maybe even a bad-rap in the process.  Meanwhile, according to my plans, the FFLA itself won't bring me a damn thing, at least not in terms of direct profit.  According to what I have in my head, if you guys just keep progressing with your sites, you will be the direct (monetary) beneficiaries of your league's being part of the FFLA.  The FFLA brings nothing to the table for me directly.  How then does the FFLA fit into the puzzle?  It brings to the table magnitude and perhaps credence based on its substantiveness.  However, I am starting to come to realize that the FFLA is more analogous to a "house of cards" rather than a house made of brick.  Without substance and almost complete understanding, cooperation and consideration on the parts of all those involved, those two components basically going hand-in-hand, the FFLA fundamentally loses its value... to me.  It doesn't fit in the puzzle anymore and actually acts as a source of frustration for me and an impediment to the progress of the plan I have for a greater network, as has been exhibited because people are not even on a similar page, no less the same page, and paying attention or evidently even care to.  Basically, and this does NOT apply directly to any of you FFLA representatives, as I see it, because this is an endeavor in its infancy, but "call-to-action" stages, if you are not working with me here, you are working against me and probably making double- and triple-work for me.  Maybe I am just taking this FFLA thing to a level you did not expect... to have to comply with.  That I can understand and makes sense.  It would also confirm the writing on the wall.

I am WAY tired of writing about this.  For all I know anymore, half of this may not even be being read.  I am VERY discouraged right now!  Anyway, if you want to discuss this, feel free to send me your phone number.  If you want mine, ask me to send it to you and I will... immediately and diligently like I have always done everything. :argh:
Title: Re: One league gone!
Post by DirkDiggler on May 31st, 2003, 9:57am

on 05/31/03 at 03:38:37, StegRock wrote:
The timing of my posting the message above is going to turn out to be so ironic, unfortunately!  A briefing for now, I'm tired of being nice and obliging 99.9% of the time [smiley=tired.gif] and then being bent over and told to take it the .1% of the time I "react," read NOT cause, "respond," stand up for what I am doing here, for what I think is right and needs to be done, the sum total of which is this wonderful, positive, welcoming, active site we have!  Yea, it is like 2:15 in the morning right now and I don't want to ever feel like I feel right now, and I think I have identified the source.  Just about everybody on "the Gridiron", something from which I could profit very directly someday, is SO thankful to me when I do the littlest of things like add a little smiley or something.  With the FFLA, though, it seems like I could bend over backwards, break my back in the fucking process, pump your leagues up to people, and still end up getting grief and stress and maybe even a bad-rap in the process.  Meanwhile, according to my plans, the FFLA itself won't bring me a damn thing, at least not in terms of direct profit.  According to what I have in my head, if you guys just keep progressing with your sites, you will be the direct (monetary) beneficiaries of your league's being part of the FFLA.  The FFLA brings nothing to the table for me directly.  How then does the FFLA fit into the puzzle?  It brings to the table magnitude and perhaps credence based on its substantiveness.  However, I am starting to come to realize that the FFLA is more analogous to a "house of cards" rather than a house made of brick.  Without substance and almost complete understanding, cooperation and consideration on the parts of all those involved, those two components basically going hand-in-hand, the FFLA fundamentally loses its value... to me.  It doesn't fit in the puzzle anymore and actually acts as a source of frustration for me and an impediment to the progress of the plan I have for a greater network, as has been exhibited because people are not even on a similar page, no less the same page, and paying attention or evidently even care to.  Basically, and this does NOT apply directly to any of you FFLA representatives, as I see it, because this is an endeavor in its infancy, but "call-to-action" stages, if you are not working with me here, you are working against me and probably making double- and triple-work for me.  Maybe I am just taking this FFLA thing to a level you did not expect... to have to comply with.  That I can understand and makes sense.  It would also confirm the writing on the wall.

I am WAY tired of writing about this.  For all I know anymore, half of this may not even be being read.  I am VERY discouraged right now!  Anyway, if you want to discuss this, feel free to send me your phone number.  If you want mine, ask me to send it to you and I will... immediately and diligently like I have always done everything. :argh:


Uh, while not a commish in any of the leagues and just a member, I think maybe you should sleep on it.  Being an outsider who knows very little  about whats going on except the posts I read, I think this is a good thing.  

From all the posts on all the leagues, it seems you have the buy in from the commishes.  Granted, not everything is always going to go perfect and not everyone is always going to agree, but overall it is a goodgreat thing!

It is like having kids.  You love them all the time, but you don't always have to like them.  And like having brothers and sisters, you love them all the time, but sometimes they can be real dumbasses.

Do you feel better this A.M.???  For the betterment of the site I hope so.

I know people appreciate what you do!

Take care....just my thoughts.
Title: Re: One league gone!
Post by StegRock on May 31st, 2003, 5:49pm
Well, Dirk, all, I have come down a bit.  There is an important message on page 2 of the following thread (visit it only if you have the time and a cup of tea or brandy or whatever you like next to you ;) as it is Steggie-style l-o-n-g, which it had to be if we are all going to get on the same page here and keep the FFLA up and running):

http://www.fantasyfootballer.com/cgi-bin/theGridiron/YaBB.cgi?board=56;action=display;num=1051998680;start=25.

Honestly, though, I still got to do some soul-searching here, nevertheless.  Not that this applies to any of you posting on this board, but I refuse to break my back for dudes who break my balls. [smiley=whatever.gif]
Title: Re: One league gone!
Post by Cirrinone on May 31st, 2003, 6:27pm
Grrrr, just typed up a whole thing and then I accidentally deleted it. Haha. Oops.

But Steg... to make my long post (that was deleted) short, I think I speak for everyone here when I say WE APPRECIATE YOU.

When I had no members, no interest in my league, you welcomed me here. Since then, I've discovered a great FF environment, a reliable source for TONS of FF information, and a great home for my league... a home in which I really hope STAYS PUT.

Everyone reading, please join me in saying "I APPRECIATE YOU". Show some love, boys.
Title: Re: One league gone!
Post by StegRock on May 31st, 2003, 6:45pm
Jon, THANK YOU SO MUCH!

But, do remember that "the Gridiron" ain't goin' anywhere!  What I have to "re-think" is this FFLA thing ONLY.  I am sure my psyche will come around this time around and we'll just press forth.  But, I've now had a seed planted that, perhaps, the FFLA is at a point of diminishing returns, moreover, now that the leagues have finally been called to somewhat "substantive" action and I have incurred two similarish situations, the first of which did not end up the way I had hoped.
Title: Re: One league gone!
Post by DirkDiggler on May 31st, 2003, 7:03pm
[quote author=StegRock link=board=1;num=1052675764;start=0#15 date=05/31/03 at 18:45:15]Jon, THANK YOU SO MUCH!

But, do remember that "the Gridiron" ain't goin' anywhere!  What I have to "re-think" is this FFLA thing ONLY.  I am sure my psyche will come around this time around and we'll just press forth.  But, I've now had a seed planted that, perhaps, the FFLA is at a point of diminishing returns, moreover, now that the leagues have finally been called to somewhat "substantive" action and I have incurred two similarish situations, the first of which did not end up the way I had hoped.[/quote


Steg--

I understand your point.  However, I offer that the FFLA DOES bring lots of good things.  It brings a solid core group of members and posters.  It brings the QFLers, Jon's group, the SBFFLers, etc.etc. etc....   Would the website survive without the FFLA?  Yes.  But does it add a unique substance and solid group of guys.  Yes.   Do you have to put as much work into the FFLA as you have?  NO.  I personally think that you have solid commishes who "believe" and can run with it.  

As far as the thread in question.....just ignore it.  (I know that may be hard)
Title: Re: One league gone!
Post by StegRock on May 31st, 2003, 8:53pm
Steve,

Your trying to smooth things over here, though well-intentioned, is, well, quite a bit naive.  The spirit of it is nice, but you really do not have all the information and facts you need to make such statements.  Of course, I know the value of the FFLA.  I'm the guy who conceived it; I'm the guy formed it.  But, your implication that I do not have to be putting as much effort into it as I have is just lame (as per my post on that thread).  That type of proposition somewhat fundamentally justifies what went on on that thread and definitely defeats my purpose.  I don't want to have to put a governor on my efforts, enthusiasm and passion; I'd rather elevate that of those around me, and I do not think what I ask is too much.  It does not involve much more than caring, paying attention, reading and thinking.  So, while I appreciate your sentiment and the generalities you point out, [smiley=bow.gif] I don't appreciate your interpretation and according specific recommendation. [smiley=no.gif]

Your Friend,
Steg
Title: Re: One league gone!
Post by StegRock on Jun 1st, 2003, 1:55pm
Just when I was finally coming out of my funk here about all this, midday Sunday, "SLAM!"  To be completely frank with all of you, this is one of the reasons I responded as (apparently) "harshly" as I did to ZAGS post.  I just knew in my gut that there was more that met the eye here, and, make no mistakes, there is.  What a downer, especially on a Sunday and going into a HELLISH week for me personally, which, again, if dudes were paying attention and being just a little thoughtful, would know as I have made posts alluding to it!  I don't need this high blood-pressure I am getting from this THIS fucking WEEK!  But, anyway,... can't expect too much.  That's been made fairly lucid to me.  What I have in my head right now...  I am going to, possibly later today, pose a question to you all.  Basically, kind of a "who wants to stay and 'come together' here under the guidelines and precedents I have deemed necessary to accomplish the unique results I want to realize/who wants to go back to wherever and give it all up at this point" type thing.  The passive underlying "pissing contestish" thanklessness that is going on here is so over the top, it borders on active "unthankfulness"!  Well, get back to ya's later...  I've got to go about pulling these knives out of my back, especially that last big one. [smiley=no.gif]
Title: Re: One league gone!
Post by StegRock on Jun 2nd, 2003, 12:38pm
Well, this morning I woke up with a rude, but expected, awakening!  Suffice it to say the straw that broke the Steggie's back has arrived.  While I am trying to bring people together here by providing a free board for all the FFLA leagues on what amounts to the ground floor of a greater FF-network project, here's what's goin' on behind my back:

http://www.aimoo.com/forum/freeboard.cfm?id=471872.

Funny thing is, the problem was never their league board here, right?  Never was!  They can do whatever the hell they want there.  So, how does this move really fix anything substantively other than to just break off and do their own thing, while still getting the benefit of the FFLA here?  Gee, that's bein' part of the team!

BUT, I "get it"... ultimately!  It is as I basically said in an e-mail way back.  It's ultimately a pissing contest with FF leagues, and message boards are such a territorial thang.  I might even go as far as to say, especially based on their complete absence here now, that maybe, for some of them over there, they are enjoying this and hoping that their departure tears this place down or apart or whatever.  Well, I got news for ya's.  It just makes me want to succeed and reap the harvest without them, just like the DBFFL, just that much more!

However, frankly speaking, I must admit that I knew all along that this was going to be a dicey part of the venture, moreover, because I knew that the rules for this place that I would have to mandate to acheive the greater goal(s) were not going to be palatable to those not seeing or interested in the bigger picture and since at this juncture I was going to have to rely on/ask for "assistance" from more members of the leagues, this was even more likely to be a high hurdle, and, make no mistakes, the FFLA has become a definite obstacle to progress at this point.  I know that some of you may not agree with that on face value, but I am talking in the bigger picture and the undermining influence the FFLA seems to bear.  I mean if the realization of the greater vision just required you guys, the commissioners and webmasters of the respective leagues, we might not be where we are.  But, it takes "more," more than evidently even some of you are willing to sacrifice.  I mean how quickly did this all deteriorate.  Talk about gettin' weak at the knees fast, brother!  Whew!  As my dad used to say, with friends like you...  It just puts everything in more perspective for me.

Anyway, now is when I really needed (to lean on) you guys in the grand scope of this project.  It ain't gonna' happen.  I thought the FFLA would/could bring to the table some magnitude and substance, especially in the early going (in exchange for exposure/a stage, individualized assistance and attention...  enjoyin' Hostica, Jeff?, the opportunity to be a part of something BIG and potentially revenue-generating, and the chance to come together and share ideas with other like-minded fantasy footballers in a substantive way).  Instead, though, I get... well, what I knew I would likely get all along... a bunch of "territory marking".  So, I guess I am getting what I asked for. [smiley=shrug.gif]

Bottom line, I ain't carryin' this thing on my back anymore.  I'll be damned if a bunch of dudes who do this to me now are going to hang on and benefit, potentially big-time, from where this is headed!  So, where does that leave us?  As far as I am concerned, I can wash my hands of this.  Returns are diminishing with every day that passes.  We'll have an in-between period here where I just won't go irrationally knockin' shit down, but in the least that PHAT SBFFL link ain't stayin' on "the Gridiron" index page very long, and unfortunately neither will/can the rest.

If the FFLA here is to dissolve, but you still want your board here, I will leave it.  BUT, just hosting any league's board is not what I intended, moreover, it will defeat my purpose as it would be a source of dudes who were possibly dragged over and signing up without really "signing on".  Getting into the business of just hosting league boards in general is not a direction I will go in.

Where does that leave us?  Why don't you tell me?  To what degree are you on board here?  Jeff's degree or less!  If so, move on!  If not, tell me, but know that I am NOT twisting your arm!  If you are not man enough to do what it takes to help me, I would rather have you depart now on a good note rather than later possibly on a bad one.

Oh, and by the way, Jeff, thanks for doing this this week.  If you guys could just not think about yourselves for just a second,... whatever!  I'll be thinkin' 'bout ya' during my 4-hour exam on Thursday!  Just don't let me see you go gippin' shit from my site!
Title: Re: One league gone!
Post by StegRock on Jun 2nd, 2003, 1:42pm
Okay, guys, the pithy post mentioned in my e-mail is now one above.  This post is just to announce that, if you didn't notice, I have already gone about taking the links to the FFLA leagues, at least those that have boards here, off "the Gridiron" index page.  I will leave it like that until we come to some sort of resolution.  For those of you left standing with me [smiley=ready4war.gif] , if anyone, I will put the links back.  The rest of the boards, I will delete.  I will, however, leave ALL the logos and links up at the GBRFL and CBFL sites for the time being, but that ain't gonna' last too long, resolution or not, maybe 2 or so weeks.  Now make sure to read the post above.  That's the key one!  Thank you!
Title: Re: One league gone!
Post by Cirrinone on Jun 2nd, 2003, 2:50pm
Well Steve, I'd just like to say I'm in forever you want to take my league, the FFFL, and furthermore, the FFLA and "the Gridiron". I will continue to post here and enjoy this great environment you provide us with, and HOPEFULLY, continue my league as a part of the FFLA. So, with the others or not, count me in...

Thanks.
Title: Re: One league gone!
Post by StegRock on Jun 2nd, 2003, 3:06pm
Jon (and Morris behind the scenes), THANK YOU for the supportive words and understanding! [smiley=bow.gif]

I know I can be "difficult" sometimes.  I just want things to really mean something, and I am probably fighting, as I have been told by all too many, a VERY uphill battle in this on-line environment.  But, I am going to keep hacking away at it because "I believe."

Anyway, I gotta' get the fuck off the computer here today, at least for a bit, ;) and get my life back.  I just wanted to make sure you were all aware of the productive thing that came out of all this.  You can find that on the following thread on which I make RATHER clear what I am looking for in guys here on "the Gridiron" and what I don't want:

http://www.fantasyfootballer.com/cgi-bin/theGridiron/YaBB.cgi?board=58;action=display;num=1054503783.

Man, can you imagine the (lengthy) kind of philosophical texts I am going to be writing someday?  YYYYYOUCH! :P
Title: Re: One league gone!
Post by PA Outlaws on Jun 2nd, 2003, 7:02pm
Give it a rest! Is this a fucking cult or a fantasy football board. Listen to some of you, I worship you, I need a few good men to follow, I will do anything you ask, please enlighten and guide me o' great one! What the fuck. It is fantasy football! The key word being fantasy!I am sick and tired of hearing where this place is going! I have not said anything in weeks. I did not want to get into a shouting contest. I never asked to be part of this "huge thing." You asked us. If I would have known you would try to be Hitler and control everything and everyone, I would have never put my league in this position. I look like the asshole here. I convinced my league how great it is. I convinced them to be a part of it. Then you try to tell people what they can and ca't say. It is a fucking fantasy football message board. We are a grassroots league that is no different than any others. You act like you did so much for us! What did you do? Yes, you gave me great tips and advice for my site. I am, and will always be, appreciative of that! We don't want or need to be famous. I thought you had a cool idea and it sounded great to be a part of it! When you act like god and berate anyone who feels differently than you, than you have a problem! You act like a three year old who throws a tantrum when he doesn't get his way! Everything is fine and dandy, until Steg disagrees with you! God forbid some people have original thoughts! We have always given you credit and do appreciate all the hard work you put into it. But when my league mates aren't welcome, than it is my job to find a new message board, which I did. Did it have to do just with the message board, NO! But our league and the people in it were not just here for the message board. We were involved. We posted, and provided insight. We just didn't know that we could only post insight that was approved of. I mean look how off the handle you went for a LEbron James thread. My god. Was it that big of a deal. If that is the worst thing that ever happens here, consider yourself lucky! Did you think our league would fold if we weren't part of the Gridiron! Come on! If you even read my first post there, it said this doesn't even compare to the Gridiron, and I can't hold a candle to Steg! Did you read that? How fucking needy are you? I have third graders in my classroom who are less needy and in demand of attention than you! You did this with the DBFFL. I looked back on the emails you sent and now see the picture clearly. You stuck your nose in there and tried to force your shit on them! You can;t do that to any kind of person with their own mind and backbone! I never asked for a damn thing. I helped where I thought I could. I even volunteered to help out on some things (logo, i.e.) Whether you like to admit it or not, this place is turning into the Gridiron. You can blame us, but it really is people like you. The problem with FFtoday was when you posted something that someone didn't agree with or like then you got blasted. Sound fucking familiar! Look back over all of the threads. Find one where any SBFFL member blasted anyone. We made two mistakes and you would of thought we spread the fucking smallpox virus! What is going to happen when you disagree with the next person who posts something! Berate them like a little kid. Just because it is your site, and your work, and your thoughts doesn't give you the right to treat people like shit. You keep saying how much you did for us. YOu got our logo on a few really good sites. Big fucking deal. We didn't want any money or anything, we wanted to find a place where we could talk some football. I hope you reach your dream for this here. I know what it is BTW! Then watch when people want a part of it, for the money or the fame or whatever. You'll wish you had a few good old grassroots leagues who are in it for the hobby! You can make us out to be the bad guys, but we aren't. Look what caused all this fellas, a post saying someone liked KFFL because he thought the other sites where different FF sites. Holy shit! He should be arrested for that! I think you need to spend more time off of the computer. You need to stop acting like GOD! You ain't him brother. You read every fucking post on every fucking thread. I think you probably read everyone's private messages too. It's too bad. We loved it here. You had a great group of guys who would have helped you get where you wanted to go. We asked for not a god damn thing in return. I leave with no regrets knowing our only mistake was that we spoke our minds. People can try to make you feel better, but posting that someone likes KFFL, or that someone wanted to talk about Lebron James is not cocky or boisterous. If you think that is check the definition. We provided the insightfulness. We only got defensive when we were attacked! Remember, YOU started all of this as you did with the DBFFL. I checked the emails. They were happy and you started to stick your nose in there and they got defensive too. See a pattern my friend. So stop putting the blame on us. I do thank you for posting our logo and spreading the word on us. But if this was what the FFLA was going to become I am glad we are out! I again thank you for your expertise and insight on web design. I learned a lot from you. I hope you reach your goal for this site. Best of luck to all.......

Peace!
Title: Re: One league gone!
Post by StegRock on Jun 2nd, 2003, 7:23pm
Facts completely out of whack!  I disagree with you absolutely and categorically because you are and they are almost all wrong!  But, thanks for all you did for me... whatever that might have been or that hasn't been voided by all this!  "I read it four times in a week, and I wasn't moved!"  That's a quote from yaw boy Mike who is to credit with the "boisterous, reckless, etc., etc." line that I quoted.

Gotta' watch out for two-faced back-stabbers on the net.  Told it many times!  That's "one thing" I can never be accused of.  NO ONE wears his heart more on his sleeve than me!
Title: Re: One league gone!
Post by PA Outlaws on Jun 2nd, 2003, 7:38pm
Truth hurt? How did I backstab? Did I have an original thought? And I like you to list a fact that is "out of whack"?
Title: Re: One league gone!
Post by StegRock on Jun 2nd, 2003, 10:01pm
Do I have to do this?  This is getting excruciating!  I'm already moving on from this and have other things I need to do this week of much more importance!  Not to mention, I sent you an e-mail, which is important because I don't want to delete anything from your board that you might need before you get it, AND I have come up with a good idea that will perhaps save the FFLA and infuse it with the substance I am looking for.  I want to move on with that stuff, but before I do I will follow through like I always have and address this for you, Jeff, the one who had my back.  Thank God we weren't in a "real" barfight; I would have been dead!


on 06/02/03 at 19:02:37, PA Outlaws wrote:
...I have not said anything in weeks.


Things have not been bad for weeks unless you want to count that faggoty "LeBron James" issue, which was about a week and a half ago and regarded your two-faced friend, who I had done a number of beyond-the-call-of-duty favors for as an admin and once told me he would go to war with me.  None of my replies to that issue were harsh anyway.  Go look!  I thought that was LONG over with, anyway; meanwhile, obviously, he was harboring that up and through yesterday when he brought it up again out of nowhere.  You want to talk about blowing something out of proportion!  It is he that is blowing this out of whack, not I!


Quote:
I did not want to get into a shouting contest.


This is actually one of the biggest problems here.  These guys coming in from these FFLA leagues are your friends, not mine.  It was kind of part of my plan that you guys would "police" your guys, who, like in the case of the SBFFL, will be your friends no matter what, yourselves, a) knowing how (anally-retentive) I can be (but somewhat purposefully), and b) with it in mind that there is something obviously good going on here.  Shawn gave me the same kind of hands-off, cop-out line initially, too.  If he would have just inserted himself into the situation and put his foot down, he would probably still be here AND he would still have his friends because they are his "real" friends.  I mean if one of my GBRFL guys made a post like, e.g., ZAGS did, I would have put my foot up his ass and corrected him.  He would have seen he made a mistake and we would DEFINITELY still be friends afterwards because, as you say, this is just fantasy football.


Quote:
I never asked to be part of this "huge thing." You asked us.


There is A LOT of truth there.  I have admitted it in a number of posts now.  And, this may be the main reason the FFLA is not working out at this point.  It started under very different premises and a very different context.  I did go about incorporating it in with "the Gridiron" after the fact and in a matter-of-fact manner.  No two ways about that!  That may not have been right of me!  But, given what I have in my head, which is somewhat vague still, but fairly grandiose, it seemed like the next logical step.  It would be a way you guys could substantively help me out by boosting my post and membership count early on when I need it, and we could get to know one another better in the process.  Eight and a half months later,  :-/ !


Quote:
If I would have known you would try to be Hitler and control everything and everyone, I would have never put my league in this position. I look like the asshole here. I convinced my league how great it is. I convinced them to be a part of it. Then you try to tell people what they can and ca't say.


That's really over-the-top calling me Hitler.  Anyway, you, everybody who joins here, should have a good idea about how the place is going to be run.  Right smack-dab in an OBVIOUS part of EVERY page since DAY ONE it has said:

"PLEASE NOTE that if you post something to a board inconsistent with the purpose/theme of that board, it WILL BE dealt with!  So, PLEASE read the message-board descriptions before posting!  Thank you!"

Actually, "dealt with" used to say the more hardcore "DELETED" if you recall!  This is something Morris noticed right off the bat way back when, if you remember, and it was something he was critical of.  Anyway, now you (all) can see why I left it there.  I think it is ABUNDANTLY clear how I run this site and what I value.  I mean look at my "FF-League Silliness" thread "between the 20's", a thread I know you visited and posted on.  I think it is quite CLEAR what kind of idiots make me laugh and that I don't want here.  Come on!


Quote:
You act like you did so much for us! What did you do? Yes, you gave me great tips and advice for my site.


I should not have to answer that question.  The fact that you ask it shows me a lot.  I started the ball rolling back in '99 and went out and recruited a great chap like Jon in '03 who provided you with an awesome graphic for your league.  You would have never met him otherwise.  I "inspired"/"forced" (if you will) you to get on making a logo for your league just like Matt did me.  I am the guy who brought this all together.  But, if that idea is too abstract for you, just put it in terms of recruitment.


Quote:
I am, and will always be, appreciative of that!


You have a hell of a way of showing it.


Quote:
We don't want or need to be famous.


I can't lie.  Fame and my site's being popular and my becoming more influential in this hobby of ours is of interest to me, but only on a substantive level, at least what I consider substantive.


Quote:
I thought you had a cool idea and it sounded great to be a part of it!


That's a shame you are throwing it all away for the likes of, what I would guess to be, two and a half dudes, the two-faced Mounty, ZAGS and maybe Mike half-heartedly.


Quote:
When you act like god and berate anyone who feels differently than you, than you have a problem! You act like a three year old who throws a tantrum when he doesn't get his way! Everything is fine and dandy, until Steg disagrees with you! God forbid some people have original thoughts!


Please show me all the instances in which this is happening.  Maybe, as it has been suggested to me in the past, it is just the way I write.  I know a lot of dudes misunderstand me or misconstrue my intent because I have a tendency to use big words.  That's because I like to.  Half the time, at least lately, it is because I am practicing my GRE vocabulary. ::) :-[

Quote:
But when my league mates aren't welcome, than it is my job to find a new message board, which I did. Did it have to do just with the message board, NO!


What-ever to the first sentence! [smiley=pullleeeeeeeze.gif] As for the second part, you could have at least been up front with me from the get-go about it rather than have me find out by seeing "board 2" at the top of your left frame when I visited your site this morning (just interested to see if you had dropped down those logos at the bottom of your pages like I had suggested on the SBFFL board and was never responded to because this shit went down... you will never meet a guy like me ever again who will take interest in you all's league and site like that from the outside, and you guys just squandered that positive energy... well, three of you did).  But, the problem wasn't with your SBFFL board here, anyway!  A new league board isn't the solution!


Quote:
But our league and the people in it were not just here for the message board.


I thought this was just a fantasy football message board and nothing else.  I mean it isn't, at least to me.  But, don't argue with me out of both sides of your mouth.  It is either just a message board or something more, not both!


Quote:
I mean look how off the handle you went for a LEbron James thread. My god. Was it that big of a deal.


No, again, read through my responses.  You should really be asking this question to your buddy Kev.  I will reiterate, he is the one who brought it back up again yesterday.


Quote:
Did you think our league would fold if we weren't part of the Gridiron!


Hell fuckin' no!  And, I would NEVER want such a thing to happen!  But, I have sensed it, regarding "the Gridiron", from dudes like, well, Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde, Mounty.


Quote:
If you even read my first post there, it said this doesn't even compare to the Gridiron, and I can't hold a candle to Steg! Did you read that?


Yes, I did.  But, it does not change the substantive reality of the situation.  I mean that's nice, but you were movin' without giving notice.  That hurt much more!


Quote:
You did this with the DBFFL. I looked back on the emails you sent and now see the picture clearly. You stuck your nose in there and tried to force your shit on them! You can't do that to any kind of person with their own mind and backbone!


COMPLETELY INCORRECT!  I got beat up for the following word-for-word initial post I made on their boards:

"Hi to my fellow fantasy footballers of the DBFFL,

First and foremost, I wanted to say to you guys something that I have told Shawn many a time, "You guys have a great league and web site here!"  

You may be aware of the DBFFL's membership in the Fantasy Football League Alliance (FFLA), a substantive grassroots network of FF leagues that has been in existence since 1999.

Now, because of the DBFFL's being part of the FFLA, the DBFFL has a link and a message board on "the Gridiron" forum at FantasyFootballer.com, the (acting) hub for the FFLA, kind of. This board is NOT to be looked upon as detracting in any way from your forum here, on which you guys go about very league-specific talk and smack-talk. You should by all means continue contributing your unique energy/energies to this great hobby of ours by what you are doing here. It is just that on your DBFFL board over on "the Gridiron" you can do/accomplish three things (that I can think of off the top of my head) that you cannot here: 1) you can give the DBFFL significant exposure by way of this more "public" forum; i.e. strut your stuff (your board on "the Gridiron" is NOT like yours was at FFWarroom, where the rest of us were unable even to view your board... your board on "the Gridiron" is for "members" AND "fans"/"interested onlookers"); 2) you can become aquainted with some of these other guys, enthusiastic fantasy footballers like yourselves, with whom you have an indirect connection by way of the FFLA (and in the process help make the DBFFL a bigger and more active and integral part of the FFLA), and 3) you can lend a guy, who is not a "complete" stranger by way of Shawn and this FFLA thing, a hand in furthering and developing his substantive, but fledgling, yet burgeoning, FF web site, which in turn helps the FFLA which is part of the mission of that site, and which in turn helps the DBFFL which is part of the FFLA. Not to mention, the site is (becoming) a great source of football information and the "general" boards, "the Red Zone", "between the 20's" and "the Sidelines", will provide you with a nice outlet for intelligent football discussion. In any event, I hope to see you all at least posting on the DBFFL board, which is pretty much dead, a fact that dismays me as I KNOW that is NOT indicative of the fervent participation in the DBFFL. Without further ado, here is the URL for the DBFFL board on "the Gridiron":
http://www.fantasyfootballer.com/cgi-bin/theGridiron/YaBB.cgi?board=01.

So, after signing up, make sure to either 1) tell Shawn to tell me that you have signed up or 2) contact me, StegRock, by sending me a private message over there or post a message on your DBFFL board so I know you are in the DBFFL, as I will then go ahead and designate you a "DBFFLer", a nice bonus of the forum and another way of giving the DBFFL some more well-deserved exposure.

At any rate, I hope I have not stepped on any toes here, Shawn. I know that you had said that you were going to post a link to "the Gridiron", so...

Well, I look forward to meeting and getting to know all of you. I am...

...Sincerely,
Steve Stegeman a.k.a. StegRock
of the GBRFL & CBFL of the FFLA"

A simple "no thank you" would have been sufficient!

Oh, and, by the way, you, Mr. "Backbone", with some faceless dude over the net! [smiley=pullleeeeeeeze.gif] You did a great job with yaw boyz here!


Quote:
I never asked for a damn thing.


Hmmmm...  Really!  Never asked for a damn thing (of me)!


Quote:
We made two mistakes and you would of thought we spread the fucking smallpox virus!


That's you all's perception of my doing my job.  It wasn't a problem with you, or Kev for that matter, for EIGHT MONTHS.  All of a sudden the "group" shows up and the "group mentality" kicked in.  That's closer to the reality of the situation.  It's like the psychological observation that people act one way on their own and another way when they are back with their high school buds, regardless of age.


Quote:
Just because it is your site, and your work, and your thoughts doesn't give you the right to treat people like shit.


You all's perception that I treated you like "shit" is more a commentary about you all than me.  Think about it!  Did I really treat Daunte Williams and ZAGS like "shit"?  Come on!  Read the posts!  If anything, outside of my little pissy post to ZAGS, which really conveys my disappointment more than anything, the opposite is closer to the truth.  Oh, and, e.g., was I treating Kev like "shit" when I helped him set his profile up?  Again, this perception that I treated "your members," all of them, I guess, like shit is more about you all's (insecure) perception than my actions and, more specifically, is probably about their not being the only "kings of the hill" here.  Like with "Screaming_Weasel", people act one way when they are leading the charge (I know that he ran leagues), but another when they have to blend in or, perhaps, take a back seat.


Quote:
I hope you reach your dream for this here.  I know what it is BTW!


YOU DO! :o (As your buddy Kev always says when he is on the defensive) Enlighten me, please!  To be quite frank with you, I am not absolutely clear on where this is going.  As I have said before, I have a rough sketch of sorts, but I am just kind of letting this thing evolve (in that direction).


Quote:
Look what caused all this fellas, a post saying someone liked KFFL because he thought the other sites where different FF sites. Holy shit! He should be arrested for that!


You STILL DON'T get it!  For the fucking 1,000,000th time, I could care less about his bringing up KFFL.  I just did in a recent post of mine in "the Red Zone".  It was WHERE this happened.  My gripe has more to do with "paying attention" than KFFL.  His post there could not have been more inappropriately placed and, moreover, undermining to my efforts or defeating my purpose, at least what it was on that thread.

Okay, on second read here, I see that you do get it.  But, in any event, once again, ZAGS's reaction and inability to put this in the past is more telling than my initial pissy little post.


Quote:
You read every fucking post on every fucking thread. I think you probably read everyone's private messages too.


True.  Untrue.


Quote:
It's too bad. We loved it here.


Obviously not!  You and Kev maybe did before the minions showed up.  But, after that you loved what you thought "the Gridiron" was, not what it was.  It was okay when we moderated "outsiders," but it was not okay when we moderated "SBFFLers," which happened "officially" all of once, Kev's "LeBron James" thread, something he, not me, just can't let go!


Quote:
You had a great group of guys who would have helped you get where you wanted to go.


Obviously not!


Quote:
...or that someone wanted to talk about Lebron James...


Here we go beating that drum again.  I guess it is because it is the ONLY one you really can and/or that Kev keeps feeding you BS on and you keep eating.


Quote:
...cocky or boisterous.


Yaw boy Mikey's words!


Quote:
We only got defensive when we were attacked!


Again, yea, all of TWICE, and only, perhaps, ONCE a little harshish.  The other time, the FUCKING LeBron James thead of Mr. Hyde's, was absolutely legitimate and none of the correspondences would seem inappropriate to a well-grounded, secure human male!  Anyway, some resolve, guys.  Two "incidences" and you guys run off with your tails tucked.


Quote:
Remember, YOU started all of this as you did with the DBFFL.


Yea, I made that first initial post above.


Quote:
See a pattern my friend.


Definitely, and that's why I have to start making sure I am not dealing with freaks or back-stabbers anymore in this faceless, on-line environment.  Just like I do with theEnglishMaster.com and have done here with my "staffers," some sort of "real" contact, a 1-hour phone call perhaps, is probably in order.  Funny thing is, you and I did talk for about 10 or 15 minutes.  I got a good feeling.  Didn't get deep enough into it, though.  Once I hooked you up with the info you needed about Hostica, it was obvious you needed to run.  HOWEVER, if you did not like what you heard or had a bad feeling about me, because I did ramble a bit, you should have, well, moved on.


Quote:
I do thank you for posting our logo and spreading the word on us. But if this was what the FFLA was going to become I am glad we are out! I again thank you for your expertise and insight on web design. I learned a lot from you. I hope you reach your goal for this site.


Again, you, Kev, ZAGS, theWave, have "some" way of showing it!

:whew:

Nothing is black and white as we all know.  This is what it takes to get at the gray, the pith!

Again, ALL of this probably could have been avoided if you made a stand or, at least, responded to that second private message of mine, which I sent to you, ZAGS and Kev, and which was VERY fair-minded.  Anyway,... [smiley=whatever.gif]
Title: Re: One league gone!
Post by sporto on Jun 2nd, 2003, 10:11pm

on 06/02/03 at 19:23:44, StegRock wrote:
Facts completely out of whack!  I disagree with you absolutely and categorically because you are and they are almost all wrong!  But, thanks for all you did for me... whatever that might have been or that hasn't been voided by all this!  "I read it four times in a week, and I wasn't moved!"  That's a quote from yaw boy Mike who is to credit with the "boisterous, reckless, etc., etc." line that I quoted.


Someone needs a HUG!! [smiley=laugh.gif]




I'm sick of that Internal server Error anyway!!!

Gotta' watch out for two-faced back-stabbers on the net.  Told it many times!  That's "one thing" I can never be accused of.  NO ONE wears his heart more on his sleeve than me!
Title: Re: One league gone!
Post by StegRock on Jun 3rd, 2003, 12:05am
Hey, sporto, you're right!  I could use a hug! [smiley=shrug.gif]

And, from your signature...
"It dosen't matter how many times a man gets knocked down.....Only how many times that man will get up!" Vince Lombardi

I will never stay down! ;) [smiley=wave.gif]
Title: Re: One league gone!
Post by ZAGS on Jun 3rd, 2003, 8:52am
It's a shame you think Jeff stabbed you in the back! He is the only reason we even gave this place a try! We could sense from the begining what a  [smiley=dick.bmp] you where, but because of all the work Jeff had put in, we decided to give it a try.
I love how you try and say how much you have done for our league, what a fucking joke! Your tips that you gave Jeff for his website where nice, but really had no impact on the league. This league ran just fine on CBS! I would rather pay $65 dollars more to corporate america, than to stay here, and have to worry all year long when the next blow up is going to be because someone did not read the entire thread before he posted!
You make me laugh when you say to Jeff, you are throwing all this away for 2 and a half dudes.  What you don't seen to understand is that, Me, DW, and the Wave, are the three founding fathers of this league!
Good luck in trying to achieve your master plan, you are going to need it with that God complex you have!
Title: Re: One league gone!
Post by StegRock on Jun 3rd, 2003, 9:04am
I've tried to toe the middle-ground here and to most onlookers I seem fair enough.  Regarding the SBFFL, the point is not that I did SO MUCH.  It is that I, an outsider, even took an interest.  But, enough!  You will evidently never understand or appreciate how precious and unique that was.  You guys are relentless and self-important!  Please stop!  You really are making my life hell at this point and at a time when I really do not need the additional stress or anguish!
Title: Re: One league gone!
Post by StegRock on Jun 8th, 2003, 11:55pm
Fellas,

First, the good news! :) As you probably already saw, the links to all the league sites that have boards here have been re-posted.  A nice "step back forward"! :D

As for the FFLA, you all should have gotten Jeff's e-mail.  Besides that, I have received responses from three of you thus far (you know who you are... you sent them to me only, so I will honor your confidentiality).  Based on the responses, I am CONFIDENT that the FFLA can at least press forth with my two leagues and the three leagues of the three guys who responded besides Jeff, and I am excited to do so as we are now all on at least a similar page.  I think there will be much smoother seas ahead for the FFLA. [smiley=yes.gif]

The other side of that, however, and I think it was fairly evident in Jeff's message, is that the SBFFL will not be part of things anymore.  This was actually confirmed in a message I received from Mike, a.k.a. theWave.  Moreover, the dearth of Jeff's response leaves me little choice.  If we were to let the SBFFL remain under such a "vague" understanding and agreement, I think we would be asking for history to repeat itself.  The three of you that responded thus far made it very clear that you were willing to "work" with me here, including in the potentially "more challenging" role of [smiley=policeman.gif] of your guys in the general forum.  That kind of precise understanding and agreement is what is necessary for us to proceed.  It is a substantive, proactive step towards our avoiding "awkward situations" in the future.

Well, that is how things stand right now!  I am still awaiting two more responses, but I feel good about the future of the FFLA once again.  Just remember to adjust those FFLA logo designs!  We are now down to seven.  Actually, since membership has gone down (by two), we may want to consider decreasing our cap from 12 to 10.  We'll deal with that later, though!  Over and out!  I am...

...Sincerely,
Steve Stegeman [smiley=smileytrash.gif]
Title: Re: One league gone!
Post by StegRock on Jun 11th, 2003, 6:00pm
Guys, got Matt's response and thought I should post that latest e-mail I sent out to you all here for "public record":

Matt (All),

I think I have come up with the fair middle-ground solution here.  It is such an appropriate way of proceeding that I am going to "cc" this to everybody, even including Jeff and Mike of the SBFFL.  Really, it's just formalizing what Rick of the FFL has done thus far and I have let him do with the suspicion that his gang probably isn't very much into the message-board world.

That is, continue to be part of the FFLA, but, especially since you do not foresee your IFLAF board getting too much activity, let's get rid of it.  That way you do NOT even have to feel like you have to do any "arm-twisting" of your guys to get on over, much like Jeff, who had good intentions, did, and the guys from the IFLAF who do come over to "the Gridiron" come over AS INDIVIDUALS, not IFLAFers.  That way you do NOT have to worry about having to get in the middle of anything and if they don't like things on "the Gridiron", they can come and go as they please without feeling any type of "obligation".  If the occasion did ever come to pass where I had to "deal with" someone, who "happened" to be in the IFLAF, with regards to the rules of "the Gridiron", I would just ask that you not take sides or, even more so, OUTWARDLY go against me, moreover, just because you are "getting your guy's back".  On "the Gridiron" he wouldn't be "your guy"; he would just be another INDIVIDUAL member, who is bound to the rules of the joint that my staff and I are "bound to" enforce.  If this were to be acceptable, Matt, I would take down the IFLAF board, but leave your "button logo" in our avatar database.  I would, however, remove the custom title "IFLAFer".  Ultimately, this relationship would be exactly like the one Rick of the FFL has maintained, de facto.  Since Jeff of the SBFFL said he still liked the FFLA, I suppose this option could be open to them as well, as I really do like, though maybe not all their constituent parts, their site and overall enthusiasm for the hobby, and, though I have taken the SBFFL stuff off my sites, nothing has been made "official" regarding the SBFFL yet.  Also, Morris, even though you answered the questionnaire the way you did, if this were an option you would like to take, too, you, of course, would be welcome to, as well.

This, ultimately, is not the relationship I was hoping for with all this, BUT you can't always get what you want in life, especially when you change the circumstances midstream as I basically did.  As I alluded to in a former message, I am sure most of the rest of the leagues that come in at this point will be with it in mind to take advantage of the "amenities"/"fringe benefits" of "the Gridiron".  So, I'll still get what I wanted from the relationship, just to a slightly lesser degree.

That having been said, please opine in any way you want.  If you think this is not a good idea because it would be like there are two levels of membership in the FFLA, the ones on board with "the bigger picture" and the ones "not", please state your case.  One way of looking at that, though, would be to consider that the leagues that would be in the "not" category were in the FFLA PRIOR to the establishment of "the Gridiron".

Well, I look forward to hearing back from EVERYBODY, including Jeff and/or Mike, on this!  I think this would be a fair way for us to "get over the hump" here and keep this thing completely intact, if we so choose.  In any case, this has been a very productive sequence of events.  Be in touch!  I am...

...Sincerely,
Steve Stegeman
Commissioner & Webmaster, GBRFL

As per Matt's response, which you all should have received, I have already proceeded accordingly.  I ultimately think this is a positive breakthrough. [smiley=thumbsup.gif]
Title: Re: One league gone!
Post by StegRock on Jun 19th, 2003, 4:09pm
Okay, guys, get ALL SBFFL logos and links OFF your sites.  They are officially out, or should I say, they never responded to my VERY reasonably-stated e-mails and have taken ALL FFLA stuff off their site, obviously showing where they stand. [smiley=wave.gif]

Their stuff has been off the GBRFL and CBFL sites for a bit and I noticed that the IFLAF and NAFFLIU have also taken down their stuff. [smiley=wave.gif]

In any event, here are the revised FFLAStrip and FFLABox graphics (for download):

http://www.fantasyfootballer.com/images/FFLAStrip.jpg

http://www.fantasyfootballer.com/images/FFLABox.jpg

At this point, the "strip" graphic may be the better one to use.  If I put one back in my signature again, it will probably be that one as I can tell it will fit perfectly, at least until we get an eighth league.

Well, be in touch!

Steg [smiley=smileytrash.gif]


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