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        Outside the Lines >> Forum Archives >>  OFFICIAL TRADE Thread - 2007 Season
        
(Message started by: PrimeTime on Jul 15th, 2007, 8:20pm)
Title: OFFICIAL TRADE Thread - 2007 Season
Post by PrimeTime on Jul 15th, 2007, 8:20pm
The first trade of the 2007 season has been completed.

The Fighting Chiapets get:

QB: Donovan McNabb
RB: LaDanian Tomlinson
WR: Randy Moss
The Fat Chick Thrillers 2007 #8 and #9 draft picks


The Fat Chick Thrillers get:

QB: Drew Brees, Matt Schaub
RB: Cedric Bension, Maurice Jones-Drew
WR: Anquan Boldin
Both The Fighting Chiapets 2007 #1 picks (#7 overall, by way of The Norsemen) and #10 overall


(modified to correct spelling)
Title: Re: OFFICIAL TRADE Thread - 2007 Season
Post by Chumpzilla on Jul 15th, 2007, 8:26pm
Agreed.   [smiley=thumbsup.gif]
Title: Re: OFFICIAL TRADE Thread - 2007 Season
Post by MordecaiCourage on Jul 15th, 2007, 10:56pm
Alexander, Johnson, and now Tomlinson???  :o This is gonna be another no contest year I guess.  [smiley=idontknow.gif]  Gotta be some kind of cruel joke!! I guess Jackson and Gore are next!! ;)
Title: Re: OFFICIAL TRADE Thread - 2007 Season
Post by BarnabyWilde on Jul 15th, 2007, 11:39pm
I just threw up.
Title: Re: OFFICIAL TRADE Thread - 2007 Season
Post by Tony_O on Jul 16th, 2007, 1:21am
He has made trades like this every year!
Title: Re: OFFICIAL TRADE Thread - 2007 Season
Post by PrimeTime on Jul 16th, 2007, 7:34am
2008 is up for grabs  :D
Title: Re: OFFICIAL TRADE Thread - 2007 Season
Post by StegRock on Jul 16th, 2007, 7:50am
I must concur with MC, BW and TO...

I'm somewhere between... [smiley=hmmmm.gif] and [smiley=nono.gif] AND :P and [smiley=tonguetied.gif] AND :-X and [smiley=yikes.gif]

In terms of flags, I'm somewhere between... [smiley=surrender.gif] and [smiley=flagged.gif]

;)

[smiley=laugh.gif] [smiley=hellyeafunny.gif] [smiley=LMFAO.gif] [smiley=sinister.gif] [smiley=rollinwithlaughter.gif]
Title: Re: OFFICIAL TRADE Thread - 2007 Season
Post by PrimeTime on Jul 16th, 2007, 4:34pm

on 07/15/07 at 23:39:07, BarnabyWilde wrote:
I just threw up.



I think Ray got fair value.  Don't you!
Title: Re: OFFICIAL TRADE Thread - 2007 Season
Post by Callie on Jul 16th, 2007, 4:43pm

on 07/15/07 at 22:56:31, MordecaiCourage wrote:
Alexander, Johnson, and now Tomlinson???  :o This is gonna be another no contest year I guess.  [smiley=idontknow.gif]  Gotta be some kind of cruel joke!! I guess Jackson and Gore are next!! ;)


Well.....he isn't getting Gore....   ;D

Thanks to Philly for pointing me to the draft order.  I'll fish around the GBRFL2 forum for more.  (Sorry I didn't have a chance to do that by now.  Work stuff.)
Title: Re: OFFICIAL TRADE Thread - 2007 Season
Post by Tony_O on Jul 17th, 2007, 4:23pm
A better question to ask might be..... what are we going to do when this league isn't fun anymore because of the results of years of deals like that?
Title: Re: OFFICIAL TRADE Thread - 2007 Season
Post by steelkings on Jul 17th, 2007, 4:50pm
The Chiapets (Ray) Put himself in a position to make deals like this. If you look at it, The QB's are  close to a wash. It may even lean a little in favor of FCT. The draft picks obviously lean in favor of FCT. The Chia's get Tomlinson while the FCT"s get depth. This trade isnt as far apart as it first appears. Look at it this way. After this trade Ray isnt nearly as deep as he was . Westbrook is hurt more than he plays. McNabb is usually hurt by week 5.  But if one of the other big 3 gets hurt then this isnt a good trade for Ray at all!
Title: Re: OFFICIAL TRADE Thread - 2007 Season
Post by StegRock on Jul 17th, 2007, 5:11pm

on 07/17/07 at 16:50:11, steelkings wrote:
The Chiapets (Ray) Put himself in a position to make deals like this. If you look at it, The QB's are  close to a wash. It may even lean a little in favor of FCT. The draft picks obviously lean in favor of FCT. The Chia's get Tomlinson while the FCT"s get depth. This trade isnt as far apart as it first appears. Look at it this way. After this trade Ray isnt nearly as deep as he was . Westbrook is hurt more than he plays. McNabb is usually hurt by week 5.  But if one of the other big 3 gets hurt then this isnt a good trade for Ray at all!


AWESOME analysis!!! [smiley=clap.gif] That's what I'm talkin' about!!! [smiley=yes.gif]

In fact, my "pukey" feeling came from 1) not having the stomach for a deal of such magnitude and the initial shock of it [smiley=ohshit.gif] and 2) thinking that Gene actually worked Ray :o (as intimated throughout sk's post). [smiley=shrug.gif] Ultimately, though, the deal is far from preposterous.
Title: Re: OFFICIAL TRADE Thread - 2007 Season
Post by MordecaiCourage on Jul 17th, 2007, 5:11pm

on 07/17/07 at 16:50:11, steelkings wrote:
The Chiapets (Ray) Put himself in a position to make deals like this. If you look at it, The QB's are  close to a wash. It may even lean a little in favor of FCT. The draft picks obviously lean in favor of FCT. The Chia's get Tomlinson while the FCT"s get depth. This trade isnt as far apart as it first appears. Look at it this way. After this trade Ray isnt nearly as deep as he was . Westbrook is hurt more than he plays. McNabb is usually hurt by week 5.  But if one of the other big 3 gets hurt then this isnt a good trade for Ray at all!


True SK! This IS a fair trade, no doubt about it. The thing that likely makes everyone ill is the stable he's got at RB! We all know that is where most fantasy leagues are won...my bet is that if he falters a bit in any other area (though I doubt it) look for either Alexander or Johnson to get him 2 of what he needs to right his ship!! That's the nature of the beast...he's got all the cards currently.
Title: Re: OFFICIAL TRADE Thread - 2007 Season
Post by PrimeTime on Jul 17th, 2007, 5:19pm

on 07/17/07 at 16:50:11, steelkings wrote:
The Chiapets (Ray) Put himself in a position to make deals like this. If you look at it, The QB's are  close to a wash. It may even lean a little in favor of FCT. The draft picks obviously lean in favor of FCT. The Chia's get Tomlinson while the FCT"s get depth. This trade isnt as far apart as it first appears. Look at it this way. After this trade Ray isnt nearly as deep as he was . Westbrook is hurt more than he plays. McNabb is usually hurt by week 5.  But if one of the other big 3 gets hurt then this isnt a good trade for Ray at all!


Great analysis steelkings!

Here is my perspective.

Believe it or not, this trade actually improves my team.  Prior to the trade I only had two starting QBs and I was counting on Ahman Green and Lamont Jordon as my RB2 and RB3.  Now I have three starting QBs, depth at running back and three 1st round draft picks.

I view Moss for Bolden as a fair swap. Bolden is younger and I have seen him consistently ranked higher than Moss in many places on the internet and in print.

Brees versus McNabb will be a wash, plus I get Schaub (not a stud but he is a starter)

I am hoping that Benson grabs the bull by the horns and lives up to his 1st round draft status.  If he does and gets 300 carries he should be at 1,200+ yards this year.  Jones-Drew should produce about at the same level as last year.  If you look at the analysis below you will see that my projected yards rushing before and after the trade is even.  Granted I will probably lose out on rushing TDs.

QBs befor the trade: McNabb, Losman,
QBs after the trade: Brees, Losman, Schaub

RBs before the trade: LT, Jordon, Green, Droughns
RBs after the trade: Benson, Jones-Drew, Jordon, Green

Projected Rushing Yards:

Before:
LT = 1,600
Jordon= 900
Green = 900
Droughns = 600
Total = 4,000

After:
Benson = 1,200
Jones-Drew = 1,000
Jordon = 900
Green = 900
Total =4,000

I am always willing to gamble in Fantasy Football.  Nothing ventured nothing gained.  Last year I traded my 1st round pick (pick number 3 I beileve) for LaMont Jordon.  Turns out that was a bad move.  Time will tell if this works out for me or not.
Title: Re: OFFICIAL TRADE Thread - 2007 Season
Post by Tony_O on Jul 17th, 2007, 6:16pm
I think the trade itself is totally fair! I just think that as an owner you also have to consider the team you are creating in the deal or competing against vs. the value of making your team better. I think that this mistake has happened more than once in deals involving Ray's Team. I'm not hating! Great Job Ray! The ONLY way Ray loses is IF he has an injury, probably would need two key players to go down! He will still get some depth in the draft.
Title: Re: OFFICIAL TRADE Thread - 2007 Season
Post by Philly on Jul 17th, 2007, 11:08pm

on 07/17/07 at 16:50:11, steelkings wrote:
Westbrook is hurt more than he plays.

Did I miss something here?  [smiley=uh.gif]
Title: Re: OFFICIAL TRADE Thread - 2007 Season
Post by Philly on Jul 17th, 2007, 11:11pm
I agree with Tony on this one... the trade was completely fair. I don't know anyone who is questioning that part of it. The issue is that people (including me) keep sending Ray the FF studs. Barring injuries, Ray likely has another championship locked up (at least that's what the oddsmakers in Vegas believe). However, it will eventually bite him in the butt as he will see those studs age and won't have the young depth to fill in behind him.
Title: Re: OFFICIAL TRADE Thread - 2007 Season
Post by StegRock on Jul 17th, 2007, 11:16pm

on 07/17/07 at 23:11:07, Philly wrote:
I agree with Tony on this one... the trade was completely fair. I don't know anyone who is questioning that part of it.


Cyber communication... [smiley=no.gif]
Title: Re: OFFICIAL TRADE Thread - 2007 Season
Post by Philly on Jul 18th, 2007, 11:20am

on 07/17/07 at 23:16:13, StegRock wrote:
Cyber communication... [smiley=no.gif]


Hmm... I look at the smiley for the message and it's :-X (lips are sealed), yet that's quite misleading because clearly your lips aren't sealed. (Ludwig Wittgenstein would have fun with this one.)

Anyway, I have no idea what your issue is with this message... If you're telling me that my message is "cyber communication" then that is beyond obvious given the medium. Yet your smiley is shaking its head in a negative motion, so maybe you're indicating that it isn't cyber communication that I'm participating in. Or, perhaps, you want to discourage me from partaking in cyber communication. That, however, makes no sense given the medium with which we are presented. If you were really against cyber communication, then it would seem pointless for you to put so much time and effort and money into an Internet-based venture.

Or, perhaps you just think I'm missing the point of the discussions. I merely said that I shared Tony's viewpoint regarding the trade: that the trade, looked at in a micro view, was fair. Yet when looked at in a more macro view (that analyzed Ray's new roster and considered his recent domination of this league), it might not have been a wise trade based on the trade partner.

So, please, I implore you, unseal your lips and let me know what I did to prompt so clear and pithy a response from you.
Title: Re: OFFICIAL TRADE Thread - 2007 Season
Post by StegRock on Jul 18th, 2007, 3:06pm
Dude, you're missing the (beautiful)... irony here.  Your response was the ultimate culmination of the potential irony of the whole conversation.  In fact, you became the irony.  It's like you (unwittingly) took the bait. [smiley=fishing.gif] You say, "I agree with Tony on this one... the trade was completely fair. I don't know anyone who is questioning that part of it."  HOW DROLL (and fortuitous for Tony)... when, if you look back through the posts, it is Tony's, at least, apparently skeptical, initial post WE are all reacting to.  Only after a BUNCH of us chimed in about the fairness of the trade did Tony respond in kind, and THAT's the post you responded to.  I.e., again, you wrote, "I don't know anyone who is questioning that part of it."  That would, none other than, TONY,... at least, that's what we all thought.  BUT, prior to saying that you said that you agree with TONY.  It's hysterical... [smiley=LMFAO.gif] It's like a great politician move.  Politician implies A.  Everybody hounds the politician for implying A and proves B.  Politician backs off A and declares B.  You then walk in and praise said politician for declaring B, and ask, "How did all this questioning even begin." [smiley=laugh.gif] You follow, bro...  So, my lips were sealed because I was, as per the smiley's official name on "the Gridiron", "speechless" a) because of the irony that you walked into and that manifested through you and b) because I knew, as this post is knotty, explaining this intricateness of the situation here would be rough.  I, then, basically speechless, typed TWO WORDS followed by a smiley to indicate an "oh, no" feeling as in "Oh, no...  Miscommunication or, at least, muddled communication strikes the cyber message-board yet again" (because I'm thinking you must not have paid close enough attention to the conversation you were entering/read back far enough through the posts, which is precisely the problem on these boards, though, honestly, not usually for you).  Yours is the kind of post that give people that :-/ [oh, man (how did that guy, in this case Tony, come out the guy smelling like roses and the rest of us goats)] feeling.  Again, you following...???  In a way, you became the victim of irony here, the kind of irony you really only see in this relatively new-fangled cyber world we live in!
Title: Re: OFFICIAL TRADE Thread - 2007 Season
Post by Philly on Jul 18th, 2007, 4:32pm

on 07/18/07 at 15:06:46, StegRock wrote:
Dude, you're missing the (beautiful)... irony here.
 

May I propose that, perhaps, you are misreading Tony's original post? He said, merely, that:


on 07/16/07 at 01:21:56, Tony_O wrote:
He [Ray] has made trades like this every year!

There's not much to infer in that statement. It's all quite explicit. A quick perusal of the trade history of this league will show that Ray has made a number of trades where he was able to leverage depth and future considerations into fantasy studs for his team. I did not take that statement as questioning the fairness of the trade. I don't know that anyone else did either. I think, however, that the initial reaction to any fantasy owner when a player like LaDainian Tomlinson changes hands, that someone must've gotten screwed or there is collusion involved (the latter reaction is not one I want attributed to this league or this transaction, but I hear about it or witness it in many other leagues).

I think Tony most clearly captured the idea that it's not the (micro) trade itself that is the problem, it's the (macro) idea of trading the best FF player in the league (at least in 2006, and projected for 2007) to the team that already has a couple stud RBs and has collected two consecutive league titles. This (my) interpretation of Tony's intention would be further supported by his second comment in the thread:


on 07/17/07 at 16:23:28, Tony_O wrote:
A better question to ask might be..... what are we going to do when this league isn't fun anymore because of the results of years of deals like that?


So you were assuming that your interpretation of Tony's initial comment was shared by everyone else, including me. I'm interpreting his initial comment quite differently (and perhaps incorrectly--only Tony truly knows what he was thinking when he posted). You brought your own bias to his comment and went from there, as did I.

Regarding my previous post to you, I really did not know what it was that you were implying with your succinct comment to me, although I'll admit that I was having a little fun with you (and you didn't even take the Wittgenstein bait I proffered) with some of my commentary.

......

On another note...


on 07/18/07 at 15:06:46, StegRock wrote:
So, my lips were sealed because I was, as per the smiley's official name on "the Gridiron", "speechless"

Where is that "official" name? I only see it called "Lips are sealed" in the list (Add Smileys: ) and also in the filename itself (lipsrsealed.gif). I don't see it in the dropdown menu of smileys.
Title: Re: OFFICIAL TRADE Thread - 2007 Season
Post by StegRock on Jul 18th, 2007, 5:22pm

on 07/18/07 at 16:32:15, Philly wrote:
There's not much to infer in that statement. It's all quite explicit. A quick perusal of the trade history of this league will show that Ray has made a number of trades where he was able to leverage depth and future considerations into fantasy studs for his team. I did not take that statement as questioning the fairness of the trade. I don't know that anyone else did either.

...

So you were assuming that your interpretation of Tony's initial comment was shared by everyone else, including me. I'm interpreting his initial comment quite differently (and perhaps incorrectly--only Tony truly knows what he was thinking when he posted). You brought your own bias to his comment and went from there, as did I.


Dude,... if what you say is the case, then the cyber world is more disassociative than I even imagined.  Regardless of what Tony exactly meant, I think the flow of the conversation from the point of Tony's post that is in question here takes on an obvious character.  In the least, the modus operandi of MC's and my posts are fairly clear with, granted, a little reading between the lines (which one must do in life).  The person, at least, perceived to be "questioning that part of it" was, right or wrong, Tony.  Either that is the case or your statement that "I don't know anyone who is questioning that part of it," is... out-of-place,... awkward,... illogical,... tendentious,... because, immanentally speaking (speaking in terms of "it is what it is"), why in God's good name, would the conversation have gone in the direction it did.  Mind you, I don't think it's, at least intentionally, any of them, Jeff.  I just think it's not quite thought all the way through.

Ultimately, my point is to point out the intricacies of cyber communication and to show how miscommunication can happen VERY easily if things aren't hashed out, like (they are more likely to be) in "real" conversation, with specificity and depth.


Quote:
Regarding my previous post to you, I really did not know what it was that you were implying with your succinct comment to me, although I'll admit that I was having a little fun with you (and you didn't even take the Wittgenstein bait I proffered) with some of my commentary.


So, is philosophy okay now? ;)


Quote:
Where is that "official" name? I only see it called "Lips are sealed" in the list (Add Smileys: ) and also in the filename itself (lipsrsealed.gif). I don't see it in the dropdown menu of smileys.


That's his name qua "message icon".  Check out the pull-down menu.
Title: Re: OFFICIAL TRADE Thread - 2007 Season
Post by Tony_O on Jul 18th, 2007, 6:07pm

on 07/18/07 at 16:32:15, Philly wrote:
 

May I propose that, perhaps, you are misreading Tony's original post? He said, merely, that:

There's not much to infer in that statement. It's all quite explicit. A quick perusal of the trade history of this league will show that Ray has made a number of trades where he was able to leverage depth and future considerations into fantasy studs for his team. I did not take that statement as questioning the fairness of the trade. I don't know that anyone else did either. I think, however, that the initial reaction to any fantasy owner when a player like LaDainian Tomlinson changes hands, that someone must've gotten screwed or there is collusion involved (the latter reaction is not one I want attributed to this league or this transaction, but I hear about it or witness it in many other leagues).

I think Tony most clearly captured the idea that it's not the (micro) trade itself that is the problem, it's the (macro) idea of trading the best FF player in the league (at least in 2006, and projected for 2007) to the team that already has a couple stud RBs and has collected two consecutive league titles. This (my) interpretation of Tony's intention would be further supported by his second comment in the thread:


So you were assuming that your interpretation of Tony's initial comment was shared by everyone else, including me. I'm interpreting his initial comment quite differently (and perhaps incorrectly--only Tony truly knows what he was thinking when he posted). You brought your own bias to his comment and went from there, as did I.

Regarding my previous post to you, I really did not know what it was that you were implying with your succinct comment to me, although I'll admit that I was having a little fun with you (and you didn't even take the Wittgenstein bait I proffered) with some of my commentary.

......

On another note...

Where is that "official" name? I only see it called "Lips are sealed" in the list (Add Smileys: ) and also in the filename itself (lipsrsealed.gif). I don't see it in the dropdown menu of smileys.



Jeff, as far as your interpretation of my comments..... [smiley=bullseye.gif]bulls eye [smiley=bullseye.gif]

That was exactly my point. I saw that some might have been thinking that I believed that the trade wasn't fair, so I posted the second comment!
Title: Re: OFFICIAL TRADE Thread - 2007 Season
Post by StegRock on Jul 18th, 2007, 6:10pm

on 07/18/07 at 18:07:40, Tony_O wrote:
I saw that some might have been thinking that I believed that the trade wasn't fair...


Exactly!!!

If you think about it, what a wonderful lesson (in cyber communication and interaction), no??? [smiley=shrug.gif]
Title: Re: OFFICIAL TRADE Thread - 2007 Season
Post by Tony_O on Jul 18th, 2007, 6:30pm
But at the same time Jeff's research, examination, and contimplation of my coments before speaking, is also a  great example!
Title: Re: OFFICIAL TRADE Thread - 2007 Season
Post by StegRock on Jul 18th, 2007, 6:49pm
Ahhhhhh...  Whatever... [smiley=pullleeeeeeeze.gif] It wasn't like he made that post before your SECOND post...  Not that much "contemplation, research and examination" went into it.  If he had made the post before your second,... maybe,... just maybe,... but still probably not a lot of "research".  But, whatever,... I'm glad you guys "bonded" over this... [smiley=touching.gif]

In any event, this still misses the "bigger picture".  You're processing it too "self-wardly".  It's not about who got who right or who got what right.  The point is beyond that.  The point is about how people communicate and interact, especially in this (disassociated) cyber environment.  That's the real fascinating stuff, not that Jeff "got 'you' right"... after you already adjusted/elaborated your position, in any event.

To get a little "self-ward" about this myself,... [smiley=awwgee.gif] I'LL be happy when Jeff gets ME RIGHT!!! [smiley=hellyeafunny.gif] I'd be pleasantly surprised if ANYBODY really gets me right (around here, at least)!!! [smiley=LMFAO.gif] Now THAT would be amazing!!! ;) (Mind you, though, I think C-Dubs is approaching that.) [smiley=bow.gif]
Title: Re: OFFICIAL TRADE Thread - 2007 Season
Post by Philly on Jul 18th, 2007, 8:06pm

on 07/18/07 at 17:22:54, StegRock wrote:
... because, immanentally speaking (speaking in terms of "it is what it is"), why in God's good name, would the conversation have gone in the direction it did.  Mind you,

I think I explained that right here:

on 07/18/07 at 16:32:15, Philly wrote:
I think, however, that the initial reaction to any fantasy owner when a player like LaDainian Tomlinson changes hands, is that someone must've gotten screwed or there is collusion involved (the latter reaction is not one I want attributed to this league or this transaction, but I hear about it or witness it in many other leagues).

...when I intimated that the first thought when someone sees a trade is to automatically run to the scales of justice and see if it balances. Check out some of the other post-trade discussions on this website and you'll see that many of them are arguing whether the trade was "fair" or not. It's human (i.e., fantasy-owner) nature. I think people were going out of their way to say that this was a fair trade according to the scales of justice, but that the fact that Ray now has LT2, LJ, and Alexander puts a real crimp in the style of anyone hoping to make a run at the Ray Matty Memorial GBRFL2 Championship Trophy.


on 07/18/07 at 17:22:54, StegRock wrote:
So, is philosophy okay now? ;)
It's always been OK. It's just not my bag. That doesn't mean that I'm completely ignorant about the subject. I just don't know nearly enough about it to speak intelligently about it. Hopefully Mr. Frankfurt would be impressed that I don't try to engage myself in those types of conversations. It is not imperative for everyone to have an opinion about everything...

...

Finally, to change subjects again... I'm quite surprised that you're a user of the phrase "it is what it is." You strike me as someone who values the importance of meaning and communication and that is about as empty a phrase as I've ever heard. You are the one who would rather not "agree to disagree," right?
Title: Re: OFFICIAL TRADE Thread - 2007 Season
Post by Philly on Jul 18th, 2007, 8:09pm

on 07/18/07 at 18:49:58, StegRock wrote:
I'LL be happy when Jeff gets ME RIGHT!!!

To be honest, it's a bit easier to get Tony "right" than to get Steg "right"... and that's certainly not a knock on Tony.  [smiley=hellyeafunny.gif]
Title: Re: OFFICIAL TRADE Thread - 2007 Season
Post by Tony_O on Jul 18th, 2007, 8:30pm
The nice thing about the situation is that two things can be equally true at the same time. Due to the lack of tone or body language, this enviroment creates frequent misunderstandings and miscommunications. However, people can be "reading the situation" correctly as well. I think my first post about Ray making trades like this lead Jeff to look at the past trades and assume that I wasn't talking about fairness, but about the teams creating the 5 headed monster we now have to face!

I made the second comment because I could tell that some, not you Steve, may not have ever considered the (macro/big picture) as Jeff called it because of making the deals they made. So, I wanted to steer the ship, that maybe I was at fault for misguiding, in the right direction, which is weighing trades in their totality, not just the immediate return.
Title: Re: OFFICIAL TRADE Thread - 2007 Season
Post by Tony_O on Jul 18th, 2007, 8:31pm
By the way, it is great to be even talking about Football!!!!
Title: Re: OFFICIAL TRADE Thread - 2007 Season
Post by StegRock on Jul 18th, 2007, 8:36pm

on 05/19/06 at 23:58:31, Philly wrote:
Honestly, I could do without all the philosophy here too... it's not my thing.  But I just choose not to participate in those discussions -- primarily because they are so far over my head and I have read so little of the pertinent philosophical texts and authors that I'd be embarrassing myself anyway.


?.?.?


on 07/18/07 at 20:06:06, Philly wrote:
Hopefully Mr. Frankfurt would be impressed that I don't try to engage myself in those types of conversations.


Who's Mr. Frankfurt, by the way?  You've stumped me. [smiley=dunce.gif]


Quote:
Finally, to change subjects again... I'm quite surprised that you're a user of the phrase "it is what it is." You strike me as someone who values the importance of meaning and communication and that is about as empty a phrase as I've ever heard. You are the one who would rather not "agree to disagree," right?


In saying something like this, it just shows how little you've even tried to get to know me. [smiley=no.gif] "It is what it is" OBVIOUSLY is one thing in your head right now and WHOLE NOTHER in mine.  I mean it in an immanent, process philsophy sensibility and/or in an Aristotelian concrete (A=A) tautological way.  I don't mean it simple-mindedly like "Archie Bunker" (a great "character" by the way), so to speak.  The fact that you think that I mean "it is what it is" in the shallow cop-out sense is absolutely a testament to how little you've come to know me.  And, that's an immanental, "it is what it is" observation.

Incidentally, I also don't take so kindly to your incessantly trying to make me eat my words.  I know exactly the recent discussion up "between the 20's" that prompted your move here (http://www.fantasyfootballer.com/cgi-bin/theGridiron/YaBB.cgi?board=56;action=display;num=1182130419).  It's insulting to my intelligence.  Give it up!  Trying to erroneously get me to eat my words isn't a very virtuous venture and, in any event, isn't getting us, as fellow Gridironers, anywhere.


on 07/18/07 at 20:09:48, Philly wrote:
To be honest, it's a bit easier to get Tony "right" than to get Steg "right"... and that's certainly not a knock on Tony.  [smiley=hellyeafunny.gif]


What-the-fuck-ever, man... [smiley=pullleeeeeeeze.gif]
Title: Re: OFFICIAL TRADE Thread - 2007 Season
Post by StegRock on Jul 18th, 2007, 8:44pm

on 07/18/07 at 20:30:32, Tony_O wrote:
The nice thing about the situation is that two things can be equally true at the same time. Due to the lack of tone or body language, this enviroment creates frequent misunderstandings and miscommunications. However, people can be "reading the situation" correctly as well. I think my first post about Ray making trades like this lead Jeff to look at the past trades and assume that I wasn't talking about fairness, but about the teams creating the 5 headed monster we now have to face!

I made the second comment because I could tell that some, not you Steve, may not have ever considered the (macro/big picture) as Jeff called it because of making the deals they made. So, I wanted to steer the ship, that maybe I was at fault for misguiding, in the right direction, which is weighing trades in their totality, not just the immediate return.


Mmmmm... [smiley=lickinmychops.gif] WELL-stated...  Nice, pithy, insightful observation, Toner!!! [smiley=bow.gif] That's the kind of objective, meeting-of-the-minds, middle-ground (not just merely agreeing to disagree), well-thought-out, enjoyable read I'm (always) talking about.  Yuuuuummy! [smiley=hungry.gif] Bring on MORE...

My only retort, and it's a miniscule one relatively speaking, would be that Jeff doesn't deserve all too much credit (I'll come to you a little bit, Tony, and say maybe a little bit for expounding on the nuance of your point) because his post came after your second post.  If it came before, I'd be all aboard.  But, in any case, fair enough. [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Way to diffuse the situation, as well, man!!! [smiley=twothumbsup.gif]
Title: Re: OFFICIAL TRADE Thread - 2007 Season
Post by BarnabyWilde on Jul 18th, 2007, 8:45pm
Let it die Steg.
Title: Re: OFFICIAL TRADE Thread - 2007 Season
Post by Philly on Jul 18th, 2007, 9:27pm
Yes, I said I could do without the philosophy here, but that's my own self-ward look at it because I'm ignorant on about 99% of the subject and really don't feel equipped to engage in those discussions...


on 07/18/07 at 20:36:55, StegRock wrote:
Who's Mr. Frankfurt, by the way?  You've stumped me. [smiley=dunce.gif]
Dr. H. G. Frankfurt, author of a book entitled "On Bullshit." You highly recommended it a couple years ago as an easy yet powerful philosophical text. Believe it or not, I actually picked it up and tried my hand at it. For the most part, it went right over my head (although I did remember the Wittgenstein discussion of someone feeling like a dog that was hit by a car, and a few other tidbits from the book). So, yes, I do try to get you, regardless of what you think. But in the end it wasn't my thing.

I also intimated something very similar in that thread link that you threw back at me in your last post to me:

on 06/26/07 at 23:00:03, Philly wrote:
Sorry to ruffle your feathers [smiley=chicken.gif], Steve, but Confucius is in your wheelhouse, not mine. I have almost no interest in reading/exploring philosophy or religious precepts. It wasn't meant as a slight to you and I'm not sure why you're taking it that way. We all have different interests...




Quote:
In saying something like this, it just shows how little you've even tried to get to know me. [smiley=no.gif] "It is what it is" OBVIOUSLY is one thing in your head right now and WHOLE NOTHER in mine.  I mean it in an immanent, process philsophy sensibility and/or in an Aristotelian concrete (A=A) tautological way.
That clearly isn't what is in my head... I don't even understand any of that. I'm not up on process philosophy or anything that is Aristotelian tautological.


Quote:
I don't mean it simple-mindedly like "Archie Bunker" (a great "character" by the way), so to speak.  The fact that you think that I mean "it is what it is" in the shallow cop-out sense is absolutely a testament to how little you've come to know me.  And, that's an immanental, "it is what it is" observation.
That's my ignorance for not knowing that there was some philosophical meaning behind the phrase. It always seemed like a throwaway statement to me.


Quote:
Incidentally, I also don't take so kindly to your incessantly trying to make me eat my words.  I know exactly the recent discussion up "between the 20's" that prompted your move here (http://www.fantasyfootballer.com/cgi-bin/theGridiron/YaBB.cgi?board=56;action=display;num=1182130419).  It's insulting to my intelligence.  Give it up!  Trying to erroneously get me to eat my words isn't a very virtuous venture and, in any event, isn't getting us, as fellow Gridironers, anywhere.
Nothing "prompted" my move here. I simply stated my agreement with what someone said (regarding football of all things) and you decided to make an issue of it. I wasn't trying to make anyone eat their words. In fact, whenever we seem to have these "discussions," it's you who is throwing deeply buried links back at me. I'm sure I've said some duplicitous things here among my thousands of posts, and if you want to take the time to call me on it, then that's your right and I'll eat the crow.


Quote:
What-the-fuck-ever, man... [smiley=pullleeeeeeeze.gif]
C'mon, Steg... you have to admit that you express yourself in a much more complex manner than Tony (or anyone else, to be honest) does on this website.
Title: Re: OFFICIAL TRADE Thread - 2007 Season
Post by StegRock on Jul 18th, 2007, 9:33pm

on 07/18/07 at 21:27:18, Philly wrote:
Dr. H. G. Frankfurt, author of a book entitled "On Bullshit." You highly recommended it a couple years ago as an easy yet powerful philosophical text. Believe it or not, I actually picked it up and tried my hand at it. For the most part, it went right over my head (although I did remember the Wittgenstein discussion of someone feeling like a dog that was hit by a car, and a few other tidbits from the book). So, yes, I do try to get you, regardless of what you think. But in the end it wasn't my thing.


Ahhhhh,... YES!!! [smiley=doh.gif] GREAT little book!!! [smiley=RIF.gif] Thanks for, at least, giving it a go. [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

As for the rest,... basically,... fair enough... [smiley=yes.gif]
Title: Re: OFFICIAL TRADE Thread - 2007 Season
Post by steelkings on Jul 19th, 2007, 6:55am
http://www.trentonsoupkitchen.org/pix/weinermobile.gif

Dr. H.G. Frankfurt"s Ride. It's an HDUV. Or...Hot Dog Utility Vehicle. It's Aerodynamic Cover Makes It A Hy-bread So To Speak


We've gotten a little off topic but you had to know it was coming
Title: Re: OFFICIAL TRADE Thread - 2007 Season
Post by StegRock on Aug 4th, 2007, 8:44am

on 07/18/07 at 20:36:55, StegRock wrote:
I mean it (is what it is) in an immanent, process philsophy sensibility and/or in an Aristotelian concrete (A=A) tautological way.  I don't mean it simple-mindedly like "Archie Bunker" (a great "character" by the way), so to speak.  The fact that you think that I mean "it is what it is" in the shallow cop-out sense is absolutely a testament to how little you've come to know me.  And, that's an immanental, "it is what it is" observation.


As I get ready to finally go to bed after doing my "behind-the-scenes" work [smiley=builder.gif] for the night, this popped into my head.  I wanted to state my point here more simply and, thus, probably with more meaning to and impact on those here reading it.

Far from its being a "cop out" or a "way out" of an argument, when I use the saying "it is what it is" I mean it as a call to stop rationalizing things away and take on the challenge of confronting things as they are as tough of a pill to swallow as that oftentimes may be.  Quite contrary to its common usage, I'm using it as a way to advance the argument, not force it to a stalemate or halt.
Title: Re: OFFICIAL TRADE Thread - 2007 Season
Post by steelkings on Aug 4th, 2007, 6:08pm

Quote:
Did I miss something here?


Quote:
What-the-fuck-ever



Quote:
My only retort, and it's a miniscule one relatively speaking



Quote:
That clearly isn't what is in my head


Quote:
Who's Mr. Frankfurt, by the way?


Quote:
Dr. H.G. Frankfurt"s Ride. It's an HDUV. Or...Hot Dog Utility Vehicle. It's Aerodynamic Cover Makes It A Hy-bread So To Speak



Quote:
I'm using it as a way to advance the argument, not force it to a stalemate or halt.


Did somebody make a trade?  Not to rain on you's dudes parade of judgement, but I get all excited when I see that someone has posted to the Trade thread on the GBRFL2 board. Then after clicking on it I find a conversation taking place that could be happening on one of the many PYFGIO - Topics threads. (Piss your fellow Gridironer off) I mean really. Trades are so rare in this league (Unless Ray sends a check to someone) that its kind of a tease just to see someone post to that thread. I know, I know. I posted a wiener. I should have never, and Im sorry for it, but never should I have posted a picture of someone driving home a steaming hot wiener wedged in a bun. I'm not the moderator, but it simply shouldnt have happened. I apologize.
Now if you guy's dont mind, I would like to get back to the topic of selling the league trophy to Ray on this thread.

Oh Yeah ......... ;D
Title: Re: OFFICIAL TRADE Thread - 2007 Season
Post by MordecaiCourage on Aug 4th, 2007, 7:12pm
Smack Down Clowns trades 2 smart a_ _ remarks and a name bashing to The Triman Telegoals for his first round sarcasm and a protection spot!!  ;D How's that?  :-* Yes ..please someone offer me something for someone!!
Title: Re: OFFICIAL TRADE Thread - 2007 Season
Post by PrimeTime on Aug 5th, 2007, 7:31pm
I am always willing to trade.  

I have David Carr and Ruben Droughns.  It is pretty obvious that Carr and Delhomme and Droughns and Jacobs should be on the same team.  

I tried to trade Carr and Droughns TO the teams that have Delhomme and Jacobs and alternatively tried to trade FOR Jacobs and Delhomme, but have not been able to make any headway on either one. :'(

It seems that teams are gun shy at the moment. If you really want to trade, all you need to do is be willing to work at it.
Title: Re: OFFICIAL TRADE Thread - 2007 Season
Post by BarnabyWilde on Aug 6th, 2007, 4:00pm
The Smack Down Clowns trade:

Byron Leftwich
Brandon Jacobs
Jeremy Shockey
Tony's 3rd rounder
Ken's 4th rounder

To the Dogs of War for:

Alex Smith
DeAngelo Williams
DeShaun Foster
Jim's 2nd round pick
Jeff's 5th rounder
Title: Re: OFFICIAL TRADE Thread - 2007 Season
Post by BarnabyWilde on Aug 6th, 2007, 4:01pm
The Dogs of War trade:

Steve McNair
my 3rd rounder

to Amish Jihad for:

Tavarius Jackson
Denver Broncos
Jeff's 8th rounder
Title: Re: OFFICIAL TRADE Thread - 2007 Season
Post by MordecaiCourage on Aug 6th, 2007, 4:03pm

on 08/06/07 at 16:00:18, BarnabyWilde wrote:
The Smack Down Clowns trade:

Byron Leftwich
Brandon Jacobs
Jeremy Shockey
Tony's 3rd rounder
Ken's 4th rounder

To the Dogs of War for:

Alex Smith
DeAngelo Williams
DeShaun Foster
Jim's 2nd round pick
Jeff's 5th rounder


I concur  [smiley=thumbsup.gif]
Title: Re: OFFICIAL TRADE Thread - 2007 Season
Post by Philly on Aug 6th, 2007, 4:05pm

on 08/06/07 at 16:01:49, BarnabyWilde wrote:
The Dogs of War trade:

Steve McNair
my 3rd rounder

to Amish Jihad for:

Tavarius Jackson
Denver Broncos
Jeff's 8th rounder


Confirmed!
Title: Re: OFFICIAL TRADE Thread - 2007 Season
Post by PrimeTime on Aug 6th, 2007, 4:21pm
Yeah! Thats what I like to see a nice trading frenzy!  ;D

Good job guys.
Title: Re: OFFICIAL TRADE Thread - 2007 Season
Post by Tony_O on Aug 19th, 2007, 11:26am
The Phenoms trade Duece McAllister and Trent Green to the Telegoals for Phillip Rivers and his 4th round draft pick.
Title: Re: OFFICIAL TRADE Thread - 2007 Season
Post by steelkings on Aug 19th, 2007, 4:01pm
[smiley=dunce.gif]

Yea I confirm it
Title: Re: OFFICIAL TRADE Thread - 2007 Season
Post by steelkings on Aug 20th, 2007, 4:35pm
Anyone want to deal for the first pick?
Title: Re: OFFICIAL TRADE Thread - 2007 Season
Post by MordecaiCourage on Aug 20th, 2007, 4:55pm

on 08/19/07 at 11:26:46, Tony_O wrote:
The Phenoms trade Duece McAllister and Trent Green to the Telegoals for Phillip Rivers and his 4th round draft pick.

I believe Todd needs to receive either a protection spot or one of Tony's draft picks or Todd will only have 8 picks and 13 guys on his roster. Is this correct? I am confused!!??  [smiley=idontknow.gif]
Title: Re: OFFICIAL TRADE Thread - 2007 Season
Post by Tony_O on Aug 20th, 2007, 5:13pm
13 players plus 8 picks equals 21 man roster (Todd)

11 players plus 10 picks equals 21 man roster (Tony)

Should be fine! I updated the draft pick post and my keepers post.
Title: Re: OFFICIAL TRADE Thread - 2007 Season
Post by MordecaiCourage on Aug 20th, 2007, 6:23pm

on 08/20/07 at 17:13:11, Tony_O wrote:
13 players plus 8 picks equals 21 man roster (Todd)

11 players plus 10 picks equals 21 man roster (Tony)

Should be fine! I updated the draft pick post and my keepers post.

My thinking process is that you can't keep a 13th  player unless you have 13 protection spots. If that is the case then the obvious easy fix is for you to give him the  protection spot you are no longer using. It may just be semantics though, I don't know.  [smiley=idontknow.gif]
Title: Re: OFFICIAL TRADE Thread - 2007 Season
Post by Tony_O on Aug 20th, 2007, 7:26pm
If he has 13 and I have 11.....It would seem like it already has happened. I'm not sure if "you" need something in writing, but I think everything is fine like it is. You can check with Steg to make sure.
Title: Re: OFFICIAL TRADE Thread - 2007 Season
Post by steelkings on Aug 20th, 2007, 7:33pm
Ken,
I think where you are hung up is that you are not considering the cut deadline. Once cuts are made and you have your set protected roster you can make trades involving those saved.
Title: Re: OFFICIAL TRADE Thread - 2007 Season
Post by steelkings on Aug 20th, 2007, 7:36pm

Quote:
Anyone want to deal for the first pick?


Wow! I had 11 responses in my mailbox and yet there are only 9 of you.
Title: Re: OFFICIAL TRADE Thread - 2007 Season
Post by StegRock on Aug 20th, 2007, 10:38pm
Tony's done a good job of breaking down the bottom-line mechanics at play here, and Todd's explanation is in essence right on. [smiley=bullseye.gif] "Protection Spots" are only an issue up until cuts.  Once cuts are made, think of it as if the protection spot comes with the player (in fact, though, it's not even about protection spots anymore, but think of it however works best for you).
Title: Re: OFFICIAL TRADE Thread - 2007 Season
Post by Callie on Aug 20th, 2007, 11:40pm

on 08/20/07 at 22:38:12, StegRock wrote:
Tony's done a good job of breaking down the bottom-line mechanics at play here, and Todd's explanation is in essence right on. [smiley=bullseye.gif] "Protection Spots" are only an issue up until cuts.  Once cuts are made, think of it as if the protection spot comes with the player (in fact, though, it's not even about protection spots anymore, but think of it however works best for you).


How about this...after protections are announced, we all have 12 man teams (unless we have traded protection slots before the deadline).  At that point (August 12 this year), that's our team.  What we do with it after that is our own business.   ;D

And if I'm wrong, I need some help understanding.....
Title: Re: OFFICIAL TRADE Thread - 2007 Season
Post by Tony_O on Aug 20th, 2007, 11:45pm

on 08/20/07 at 23:40:18, Callie wrote:
How about this...after protections are announced, we all have 12 man teams (unless we have traded protection slots before the deadline).  At that point (August 12 this year), that's our team.  What we do with it after that is our own business.   ;D

And if I'm wrong, I need some help understanding.....


Exactly!
Title: Re: OFFICIAL TRADE Thread - 2007 Season
Post by Callie on Aug 21st, 2007, 1:11am
Not to beat a dead horse (no smiley included), but maybe it's clearer in the other direction.  Think of Aug. 12 as cut-down day.  Anyone you can't protect, you have to cut.  Protections are only worth the ability to protect players on Aug. 12.  After that, they're expired.  What's left after cut-downs is our teams.  Then we add to that team in the draft.
Title: Re: OFFICIAL TRADE Thread - 2007 Season
Post by Philly on Sep 13th, 2007, 8:03am
Hey people... a trade has been completed.

Cheryl sends: Chris Brown and LenDale White
to
Jeff for: Jake Delhomme, Dominic Rhodes, and Vincent Jackson

(I also posted this in the transactions/draft picks thread.)
Title: Re: OFFICIAL TRADE Thread - 2007 Season
Post by Chumpzilla on Sep 13th, 2007, 8:04pm
:o [smiley=jawdroppin.gif] [smiley=scared.gif]
Title: Re: OFFICIAL TRADE Thread - 2007 Season
Post by captainpurple on Sep 14th, 2007, 9:10pm

on 09/13/07 at 20:04:54, Chumpzilla wrote:
:o [smiley=jawdroppin.gif] [smiley=scared.gif]

?.?.?
so...which way are you shocked?    who do you think got the better end of the deal?

personally, i think White and Brown can be every bit as good as Henry was last year....trick is to know when to play whom.

Silver & Black absolutely HAD to have a QB.  She got that and a very nice young WR.   With her depth, she could certainly afford to deal from the RB position.

All in all, I think S&B got the better end of it, but Amish Jihad got what they needed too...another RB to start every week.  

[smiley=twocents.gif]
Title: Re: OFFICIAL TRADE Thread - 2007 Season
Post by Tony_O on Sep 14th, 2007, 9:35pm

on 09/14/07 at 21:10:05, captainpurple wrote:
?.?.?
so...which way are you shocked?    who do you think got the better end of the deal?

personally, i think White and Brown can be every bit as good as Henry was last year....trick is to know when to play whom.

Silver & Black absolutely HAD to have a QB.  She got that and a very nice young WR.   With her depth, she could certainly afford to deal from the RB position.

All in all, I think S&B got the better end of it, but Amish Jihad got what they needed too...another RB to start every week.  

[smiley=twocents.gif]



[smiley=annoyed.gif] [smiley=flipa.gif] [smiley=flipoffangrily.gif] [smiley=madashell.gif] [smiley=pissed.gif] [smiley=twocents.gif]

I too needed some help at RB!
Title: Re: OFFICIAL TRADE Thread - 2007 Season
Post by Chumpzilla on Sep 14th, 2007, 10:00pm

on 09/14/07 at 21:10:05, captainpurple wrote:
?.?.?
so...which way are you shocked?    who do you think got the better end of the deal?

personally, i think White and Brown can be every bit as good as Henry was last year....trick is to know when to play whom.

Silver & Black absolutely HAD to have a QB.  She got that and a very nice young WR.   With her depth, she could certainly afford to deal from the RB position.

All in all, I think S&B got the better end of it, but Amish Jihad got what they needed too...another RB to start every week.  

[smiley=twocents.gif]


I actually think its a good deal for both...  was just dying to use those smileys!   ;D
Title: Re: OFFICIAL TRADE Thread - 2007 Season
Post by Chumpzilla on Sep 14th, 2007, 10:01pm

on 09/14/07 at 21:35:48, Tony_O wrote:
[smiley=annoyed.gif] [smiley=flipa.gif] [smiley=flipoffangrily.gif] [smiley=madashell.gif] [smiley=pissed.gif] [smiley=twocents.gif]

I too needed some help at RB!


T.J. Is on the block.... no guessing who to start foir the Jets...   8-)
Title: Re: OFFICIAL TRADE Thread - 2007 Season
Post by Callie on Sep 14th, 2007, 10:42pm

on 09/14/07 at 21:35:48, Tony_O wrote:
[smiley=annoyed.gif] [smiley=flipa.gif] [smiley=flipoffangrily.gif] [smiley=madashell.gif] [smiley=pissed.gif] [smiley=twocents.gif]

I too needed some help at RB!


Yeah.  But there was no way you could give me a starting QB that I could take a shot on till Pennington is back.
Title: Re: OFFICIAL TRADE Thread - 2007 Season
Post by captainpurple on Oct 12th, 2007, 10:00am
Fury of The Norsemen sends:

Week 6 #1 FA pick (#9 overall) and 2008 7th Rd pick

to Amish Jihad for:

Week 6 #1 FA pick (#1 overall) and 2008 9th Rd pick

[smiley=thumbsup.gif]
Title: Re: OFFICIAL TRADE Thread - 2007 Season
Post by Philly on Oct 12th, 2007, 12:41pm
nod-nod [smiley=yes.gif]
Title: Re: OFFICIAL TRADE Thread - 2007 Season
Post by Callie on Oct 17th, 2007, 11:14pm
Any decent offers for the Giants DU?  Just so you know, if I don't get a DECENT offer, I'll just sit on both of my DU's and play the match-ups.

(Edit:  Just look at that nice schedule.)
Title: Re: OFFICIAL TRADE Thread - 2007 Season
Post by Tony_O on Oct 18th, 2007, 4:04pm

on 10/17/07 at 23:14:26, Callie wrote:
Any decent offers for the Giants DU?  Just so you know, if I don't get a DECENT offer, I'll just sit on both of my DU's and play the match-ups.

(Edit:  Just look at that nice schedule.)


Hasn't that been the caviot(not sure if correct spelling) to all of your trade offers, if I dont get what I want, I will stay with what I have and wait till next year? Your lucky you took over the "good" team because your scale for measuring trade potential would have made it almost impossible to turn your team around like Ken has with his roster!
Title: Re: OFFICIAL TRADE Thread - 2007 Season
Post by Callie on Oct 18th, 2007, 6:19pm

on 10/18/07 at 16:04:46, Tony_O wrote:
Hasn't that been the caviot(not sure if correct spelling) to all of your trade offers, if I dont get what I want, I will stay with what I have and wait till next year? Your lucky you took over the "good" team because your scale for measuring trade potential would have made it almost impossible to turn your team around like Ken has with his roster!


You're just mad because I wouldn't give you Housh for Clemens.   ;D

All kidding aside, Tony, we all trade to improve our teams or to meet needs.  In the trade offer you made that I'm talking about, you were sensibly trying to fill a team need of yours by offering a trade that would help me with a team need of mine.  I have an obvious team need, too, but I don't want to gut the core of my team in the process.  (I can't afford to!)  I know that there were other players included on both sides, but that was the core trade.  And I honestly didn't feel that an unproven Clemens was worth a stud Housh.

Besides, we both made counter-offers, so we weren't just taking our footballs and going home.   ;D
Title: Re: OFFICIAL TRADE Thread - 2007 Season
Post by Callie on Oct 20th, 2007, 8:51pm

on 10/18/07 at 18:19:54, Callie wrote:
You're just mad because I wouldn't give you Housh for Clemens.   ;D

All kidding aside, Tony, we all trade to improve our teams or to meet needs.  In the trade offer you made that I'm talking about, you were sensibly trying to fill a team need of yours by offering a trade that would help me with a team need of mine.  I have an obvious team need, too, but I don't want to gut the core of my team in the process.  (I can't afford to!)  I know that there were other players included on both sides, but that was the core trade.  And I honestly didn't feel that an unproven Clemens was worth a stud Housh.

Besides, we both made counter-offers, so we weren't just taking our footballs and going home.   ;D


UPDATE:  When I didn't want to trade Housh, I was also considering the health of Javon Walker and the situation for Fitzgerald with Boldin back and QB issues.  Turns out it was a good thought!

Measuring trade potential includes the impact on the team as a whole.
Title: Re: OFFICIAL TRADE Thread - 2007 Season
Post by Chumpzilla on Oct 20th, 2007, 9:28pm

on 10/20/07 at 20:51:48, Callie wrote:
UPDATE:  When I didn't want to trade Housh, I was also considering the health of Javon Walker and the situation for Fitzgerald with Boldin back and QB issues.  Turns out it was a good thought!

Measuring trade potential includes the impact on the team as a whole.


[smiley=twothumbsup.gif]
Title: Re: OFFICIAL TRADE Thread - 2007 Season
Post by Tony_O on Oct 21st, 2007, 12:27am

on 10/20/07 at 20:51:48, Callie wrote:
UPDATE:  When I didn't want to trade Housh, I was also considering the health of Javon Walker and the situation for Fitzgerald with Boldin back and QB issues.  Turns out it was a good thought!

Measuring trade potential includes the impact on the team as a whole.


Yeah, but at the same time you were selling me on how Javon Walker would be ok after the bye week.  That is also why the deal included Cotchery, Klemons and a 2nd round pick for T.J!
Title: Re: OFFICIAL TRADE Thread - 2007 Season
Post by Callie on Oct 21st, 2007, 1:08am

on 10/21/07 at 00:27:49, Tony_O wrote:
Yeah, but at the same time you were selling me on how Javon Walker would be ok after the bye week.  That is also why the deal included Cotchery, Klemons and a 2nd round pick for T.J!


I didn't save the trade negotiation rounds info.  I do know that I thought that Walker should be OK in short time, and that I had WRs and RBs who needed to cover my losses at QB. (And that I had some injury/legal concerns in both squads.)  I do know that I was offering Walker at a low price due to risk/reward factors you had to take if you took him.  And I know that you didn't offer me the farm you seem to be mentioning with me only offering Housh, or even Walker.  It was multi-players on both sides.
Title: Re: OFFICIAL TRADE Thread - 2007 Season
Post by Tony_O on Oct 21st, 2007, 2:04am
Well maybe you didn't read it because T.J.'s name was in the trade, but he last offer I sent you was Klemons, Cotchery, and a 2nd for just T.J. and you replied with, "I can't trade Fitzgerald or T.J." It is no big deal, I was just trying to keep it accurate.
Title: Re: OFFICIAL TRADE Thread - 2007 Season
Post by Callie on Oct 21st, 2007, 4:29am
A second what?  If you mean your second round draft pick, I don't get it.  You were talking about player trades along with swapping 7th for 8th round picks.
Title: Re: OFFICIAL TRADE Thread - 2007 Season
Post by Tony_O on Oct 21st, 2007, 12:43pm
well, once again, either you didn't read it or you had multiple offers with other owners and have mine confused with someone elses.  Here is a copy of the original PM.  I did ask for a draft pick back to make the # of picks even.

Subject: GBRFL2 Date: Oct 12th, 2007, 4:05pm

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What if it was Clemons, Cotchery, and 2008 2nd round pick for T.J. and your 2008 5th round pick?  
Title: Re: OFFICIAL TRADE Thread - 2007 Season
Post by Callie on Oct 21st, 2007, 9:08pm
I deleted those PMs as soon as we were done talking, Tony.  So if you say that was the last offer, I'm sure you're right.

I guess my bottom line is that I wanted to keep Housh, considering my team and the overall trade offers.  (We don't all own a T. Brady.   ;D )
Title: Re: OFFICIAL TRADE Thread - 2007 Season
Post by captainpurple on Oct 27th, 2007, 7:28pm
[smiley=viking.gif] Fury of The Norsemen sends Greg Jennings
to
[smiley=dog.gif] Dogs of War for their Week 8 1st Rd FA pick.

[smiley=twothumbsup.gif]   :'(
Title: Re: OFFICIAL TRADE Thread - 2007 Season
Post by BarnabyWilde on Oct 27th, 2007, 7:41pm
Dogs confirm!
Title: Re: OFFICIAL TRADE Thread - 2007 Season
Post by StegRock on Oct 28th, 2007, 6:47am
I just happened to notice this deal between Robert and Jim.  Jim, so that the trade can go through, do remember to put in an extra drop so you have room on your roster for Greg Jennings.
Title: Re: OFFICIAL TRADE Thread - 2007 Season
Post by BarnabyWilde on Oct 28th, 2007, 8:35am
Yes, I do, but thanks for the reminder!
Title: Re: OFFICIAL TRADE Thread - 2007 Season
Post by MordecaiCourage on Nov 1st, 2007, 10:04pm
The Clowns trade RB Jesse Chatman to the Dogs of War for RC Greg Jennings
Title: Re: OFFICIAL TRADE Thread - 2007 Season
Post by BarnabyWilde on Nov 1st, 2007, 10:06pm
Dogs of War confirm!
Title: Re: OFFICIAL TRADE Thread - 2007 Season
Post by BarnabyWilde on Nov 4th, 2007, 8:19am
Dogs of War get Amish Jihad's 1st round FA pick this week and his 8th round 2008 pick for the Dog's 2nd round FA pick this week and his 7th round 2008 pick.
Title: Re: OFFICIAL TRADE Thread - 2007 Season
Post by Philly on Nov 4th, 2007, 12:38pm

on 11/04/07 at 08:19:53, BarnabyWilde wrote:
Dogs of War get Amish Jihad's 1st round FA pick this week and his 8th round 2008 pick for the Dog's 2nd round FA pick this week and his 7th round 2008 pick.


[smiley=Imwithstupid.gif] [smiley=yes.gif]
Title: Re: OFFICIAL TRADE Thread - 2007 Season
Post by Callie on Nov 8th, 2007, 8:15pm
New trade:  Triman Telegoals / Silver&Gold.

Triman Telegoals gets Silver&Gold's 9th round pick in '08.

Silver&Gold gets Cleo Lemon.  (If he's still breathing.  I'm the official QB killer this year.   ;D )
Title: Re: OFFICIAL TRADE Thread - 2007 Season
Post by Tony_O on Nov 8th, 2007, 8:45pm
why would someone trade anything for a person's last round pick? [offtopic] Is it just me?[/offtopic]
Title: Re: OFFICIAL TRADE Thread - 2007 Season
Post by Callie on Nov 8th, 2007, 8:52pm

on 11/08/07 at 20:45:11, Tony_O wrote:
why would someone trade anything for a person's last round pick? [offtopic] Is it just me?[/offtopic]


At least he got something for Lemon.  Otherwise, he would probably just drop him.

Edit:  Besides, the way things are going for me, it could be a high pick in that round.  A shot at a speculation pick instead of dead wood dropped.  I'll probably be lucky to get another game out of Lemon, anyway.  ;D
Title: Re: OFFICIAL TRADE Thread - 2007 Season
Post by steelkings on Nov 8th, 2007, 9:23pm
[smiley=yes.gif] [smiley=yes.gif] [smiley=yes.gif]

Word!


Quote:
Triman Telegoals gets Silver&Gold's 9th round pick in '08.


Word to your momma, Tony!
Title: Re: OFFICIAL TRADE Thread - 2007 Season
Post by Tony_O on Nov 8th, 2007, 9:55pm
well in the end, the # of draft picks have to match, so really you just swapped 9th round picks. word to your mother to ST! LOL   :)
Title: Re: OFFICIAL TRADE Thread - 2007 Season
Post by Callie on Nov 8th, 2007, 10:20pm
BTW, I know that I need to drop a player to keep my roster number right.  (No need to worry, Steg.)
Title: Re: OFFICIAL TRADE Thread - 2007 Season
Post by StegRock on Nov 9th, 2007, 2:58am

on 11/08/07 at 21:55:42, Tony_O wrote:
well in the end, the # of draft picks have to match, so really you just swapped 9th round picks. word to your mother to ST! LOL   :)


Yea, in this sense the trade really doesn't make sense.  But,... whatever,... it's all good.  Just make that extra cut, Callie, like you said.

(Edit...)

On second thought,... I just put this trade through (for the time being without Callie's extra drop) on the "Transactions" page (on my computer, not on the net) and it was totally retarded. ::) Oh, well...  The main thing is to have fun.
Title: Re: OFFICIAL TRADE Thread - 2007 Season
Post by steelkings on Nov 9th, 2007, 7:22am

Quote:
Yea, in this sense the trade really doesn't make sense.  But,... whatever,... it's all good



Quote:
well in the end, the # of draft picks have to match, so really you just swapped 9th round picks. word to your mother to ST



Quote:
it was totally retarded.


I thought everyone around here was smarter than I am, so I wouldn't need to explain. I was wrong so here go's [smiley=howtoput.gif]


1.  We all know Cleo Lemon will soon be a back up QB. (After this week) His usefulness  [smiley=toast.gif] is growing thin. I have Palmer and Roethlisberger plus both their back ups. What will I ever need Lemon for?


2. Throw me a bone for him. Anything! If its moving up 4 spots in the 9th round so be it.  It would not be within the rules for me to just give him to her. The underlined part is a clue.  [smiley=gotanidea.gif]



Anyone figure this out yet?.......... Ok I'll tell ya.



3. Callie is what, in the 4th or 5th spot? No gaurentees that she will pick up a 2nd QB that will start via free agents. She's playing the guy  [smiley=zombie.gif]that I'm chasing in the standings this week. Wouldn't it be nice if she played him with 2 QB's. I know Cleo's not a stud by any means, but he's better than nothing and I had to find a use for him.

This league is about championships and not draft picks. [smiley=slap.gif]

Thank you guy's for giving me the benefit of the doubt and thinking it through!  [smiley=thinking.gif] :-*
Title: Re: OFFICIAL TRADE Thread - 2007 Season
Post by Philly on Nov 9th, 2007, 8:58am
http://publications.mediapost.com/publications/articles/images/20/10-26Guinness.Cheesehead.jpg
BRILLIANT!
Title: Re: OFFICIAL TRADE Thread - 2007 Season
Post by Callie on Nov 9th, 2007, 8:47pm

on 11/09/07 at 02:58:05, StegRock wrote:
Yea, in this sense the trade really doesn't make sense.  But,... whatever,... it's all good.  Just make that extra cut, Callie, like you said.

(Edit...)

On second thought,... I just put this trade through (for the time being without Callie's extra drop) on the "Transactions" page (on my computer, not on the net) and it was totally retarded. ::) Oh, well...  The main thing is to have fun.


Just playing the team I inherited in a deep keeper league without gutting it, Stevarino.  In a league that hoards QBs and gives no quarter to other teams at that position, I think I'll do better by keeping my strengths and hanging in elsewhere.  Think chess.   ;D
Title: Re: OFFICIAL TRADE Thread - 2007 Season
Post by MordecaiCourage on Nov 9th, 2007, 9:58pm
Good people of the GBRFL2....I have sent 7 trade offers today.... I will be out of pocket after noon tommorrow until Monday afternoon. If you are interested in one I sent...I will take the first caller.  I'll be off and on tonight but may not get the chance to sign on tommorrow morn. If you want the deal let me know tonight if possible. ;D
Title: Re: OFFICIAL TRADE Thread - 2007 Season
Post by StegRock on Nov 10th, 2007, 6:15am

on 11/09/07 at 07:22:04, steelkings wrote:
I thought everyone around here was smarter than I am, so I wouldn't need to explain. I was wrong so here go's [smiley=howtoput.gif]


1.  We all know Cleo Lemon will soon be a back up QB. (After this week) His usefulness  [smiley=toast.gif] is growing thin. I have Palmer and Roethlisberger plus both their back ups. What will I ever need Lemon for?


2. Throw me a bone for him. Anything! If its moving up 4 spots in the 9th round so be it.  It would not be within the rules for me to just give him to her. The underlined part is a clue.  [smiley=gotanidea.gif]



Anyone figure this out yet?.......... Ok I'll tell ya.



3. Callie is what, in the 4th or 5th spot? No gaurentees that she will pick up a 2nd QB that will start via free agents. She's playing the guy  [smiley=zombie.gif]that I'm chasing in the standings this week. Wouldn't it be nice if she played him with 2 QB's. I know Cleo's not a stud by any means, but he's better than nothing and I had to find a use for him.

This league is about championships and not draft picks. [smiley=slap.gif]

Thank you guy's for giving me the benefit of the doubt and thinking it through!  [smiley=thinking.gif] :-*


Uhhhhh,... okay... [smiley=dunce.gif]
Title: Re: OFFICIAL TRADE Thread - 2007 Season
Post by Tony_O on Nov 10th, 2007, 1:59pm
Fantasy Phenoms trades:

Marques Colsten, Trent Edwards, my 2008 1st tounder, and my 2008 7th rounder

to  

Smack Down Clowns for:

Rudi Johnson, Dwayne Bowe, his 2008 3rd rounder, and his 2008 8th rounder
Title: Re: OFFICIAL TRADE Thread - 2007 Season
Post by MordecaiCourage on Nov 10th, 2007, 2:01pm
It is as he has spoken  [smiley=bow.gif]
Title: Re: OFFICIAL TRADE Thread - 2007 Season
Post by StegRock on Nov 11th, 2007, 2:11pm

on 11/08/07 at 20:15:21, Callie wrote:
New trade:  Triman Telegoals / Silver&Gold.

Triman Telegoals gets Silver&Gold's 9th round pick in '08.

Silver&Gold gets Cleo Lemon.  (If he's still breathing.  I'm the official QB killer this year.   ;D )


sk, do remember that because of this deal [and the fact that you did not pick up (go after) any free-agents this week] you have an open roster spot with which you can acquire a free-agent WITHOUT making a drop.
Title: Re: OFFICIAL TRADE Thread - 2007 Season
Post by steelkings on Nov 11th, 2007, 9:46pm
Telegoals send Tony Hunt RB Philly and the telegoals 9th and 8th pick in 2008 draft to the the Chiapets for a player to be named with Rays approval along with the Chia's 5th and 7th picks in the draft.
Title: Re: OFFICIAL TRADE Thread - 2007 Season
Post by Chumpzilla on Nov 11th, 2007, 9:59pm
Agreed.  Player to be named is Baltimore WR Demetrius Williams.  We will put the deal in next weeks line-up submission.
Title: Re: OFFICIAL TRADE Thread - 2007 Season
Post by StegRock on Nov 11th, 2007, 10:52pm

on 11/11/07 at 21:46:58, steelkings wrote:
Telegoals send Tony Hunt RB Philly and the telegoals 9th and 8th pick in 2008 draft to the the Chiapets for a player to be named with Rays approval along with the Chia's 5th and 7th picks in the draft.


To keep this straight, that would be "Callie's 9th rounder".
Title: Re: OFFICIAL TRADE Thread - 2007 Season
Post by Chumpzilla on Nov 11th, 2007, 11:07pm
Correct.  Thanks Steg!
Title: Re: OFFICIAL TRADE Thread - 2007 Season
Post by steelkings on Nov 12th, 2007, 7:57am

on 11/11/07 at 14:11:12, StegRock wrote:
sk, do remember that because of this deal [and the fact that you did not pick up (go after) any free-agents this week] you have an open roster spot with which you can acquire a free-agent WITHOUT making a drop.



I do have to wait until line up submittions and get in line like everyone else. Yes? Or can I do it now?
Title: Re: OFFICIAL TRADE Thread - 2007 Season
Post by Philly on Nov 12th, 2007, 11:31am
You'll have to get in line, like everyone else. The only difference for you is that you don't have to drop anyone to pick up a player.
Title: Re: OFFICIAL TRADE Thread - 2007 Season
Post by Philly on Nov 17th, 2007, 12:02am
A trade has been completed.

Jeff sends:
RB Warrick Dunn, 2008 6th round pick, and 2008 7th round pick

to Todd for:
2008 3rd round pick and 2008 5th round pick

(Note: Todd had an open roster spot because of an earlier trade, which is now filled with this trade. Jeff will have an open roster spot now.)
Title: Re: OFFICIAL TRADE Thread - 2007 Season
Post by steelkings on Nov 17th, 2007, 8:30am
Just as it is written  [smiley=yes.gif]


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