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        Outside the Lines >> Forum Archives >>  How do you know you're in a deeeeeeeep keeper ?
        
(Message started by: captainpurple on Oct 17^th, 2006, 4:32pm)

Title: How do you know you're in a deeeeeeeep keeper ?
Post by captainpurple on Oct 17^th, 2006, 4:32pm

When someone picks up Ricky Williams! [smiley=jawdroppin.gif]

Title: Re: How do you know you're in a deeeeeeeep keeper
Post by StegRock on Oct 18^th, 2006, 2:40am

Three weeks ago in the mother league... [smiley=whistle.gif]

http://www.fantasyfootballer.com/gbrfl/transactions.htm.

Title: Re: How do you know you're in a deeeeeeeep keeper
Post by Philly on Oct 18^th, 2006, 10:27am

Hey... why not grab Maurice Clarett and Lawrence Phillips while you're at it?! [smiley=hellyeafunny.gif]

Title: Re: How do you know you're in a deeeeeeeep keeper
Post by Chumpzilla on Oct 18^th, 2006, 1:20pm

I participated in the Ricky Williams "experiment" last year. Won't happen again. Good luck!

Title: Re: How do you know you're in a deeeeeeeep keeper
Post by Philly on Oct 18^th, 2006, 2:32pm

on 10/18/06 at 13:20:25, Chumpzilla wrote:

I participated in the Ricky Williams "experiment" last year. Won't happen again. Good luck!

Did you inhale? [smiley=bonghit.gif]

Title: Re: How do you know you're in a deeeeeeeep keeper
Post by BarnabyWilde on Oct 18^th, 2006, 4:10pm

on 10/18/06 at 13:20:25, Chumpzilla wrote:

I participated in the Ricky Williams "experiment" last year. Won't happen again. Good luck!

[smiley=bullseye.gif]

Title: Re: How do you know you're in a deeeeeeeep keeper
Post by StegRock on Oct 18^th, 2006, 4:55pm

Don't make the FOUR-time Champ in this system go down your rosters and point out all the players over whom Ricky Williams (who may just find himself in Denver next year with Mike Shanny, who was sniffing around him hard this past offseason, as Shanny goes and jettisons Tatum Bell, a guy we all know he's never been crazy about, just like he did Olandis Gary (one-hit wonder with the Broncos), Clinton Portis, Reuben Droughns ("") and Mike Anderson) is (already) worth having!!!

Title: Re: How do you know you're in a deeeeeeeep keeper
Post by captainpurple on Oct 18^th, 2006, 6:16pm

has Earl Campbell been taken yet? ;)

Title: Re: How do you know you're in a deeeeeeeep keeper
Post by BarnabyWilde on Oct 18^th, 2006, 6:34pm

The 4 time champ can K. M. A. ::)

Title: Re: How do you know you're in a deeeeeeeep keeper
Post by Walker Boh on Oct 18^th, 2006, 6:43pm

Nice to see my move has stirred such interest! ;D I'm well aware of his checkered past, but what did it cost me? A 3rd string QB? Big deal. If there's even a small chance that he comes back to the NFL next season, he's well worth the roster spot.

Title: Re: How do you know you're in a deeeeeeeep keeper
Post by StegRock on Oct 18^th, 2006, 6:43pm

This is a VERY savvy GBRFL pick-up, bottom line. [smiley=yes.gif] You can heed that or you can continue bitching about not getting the first pick in the draft lottery year in and year out. It's your choice... ::) ... :-/

Title: Re: How do you know you're in a deeeeeeeep keeper
Post by Tony_O on Oct 18^th, 2006, 6:50pm

Ouch......that one hurt my feelings [smiley=lickmyass.gif] [smiley=crybaby.gif] [smiley=duel.gif] [smiley=flipoffangrily.gif] [smiley=arguing.gif]

Title: Re: How do you know you're in a deeeeeeeep keeper
Post by BarnabyWilde on Oct 18^th, 2006, 7:03pm

on 10/18/06 at 18:43:55, StegRock wrote:

Oooohhh...wise words from the almighty king of wisdom.

Title: Re: How do you know you're in a deeeeeeeep keeper
Post by Chumpzilla on Oct 18^th, 2006, 7:06pm

Yes... I inhaled deeply. ;D

I will still strongly disagree with this being a savvy pick-up. [smiley=no.gif]

I traded for him, wasted a protection spot... then he retires... then he comes back... then he can't stay off the reefer... [smiley=bonghit.gif] then he goes to the CFL where he doesn't do shit before breaking his arm.

Yes, I have been burned many times by the possible upside of having Williams on my roster... All I know is he'll never be on my roster and I hope and pray he never lands on the Eagles roster either. :o

Title: Re: How do you know you're in a deeeeeeeep keeper
Post by StegRock on Oct 18^th, 2006, 7:26pm

Sorry you had that, for sure, bias-creating experience, Chumpman. I would not have considered (did not even consider) such moves a year, a year and a half ago. Ricky and/in Miami was just too volatile a situation after the BS he pulled the year prior. But, he did play okay; Shanny, Mr. RB, was sniffin' around him this past offseason, which is a curious point in and of itself; he obviously wants to play more football, otherwise, he wouldn't be playing in the CFL, and he WILL get an "opportunity" next year somewhere. Those are the facts of the matter that make him WELL worth a Patrick Ramsey or a Cedric Cobbs.

on 10/18/06 at 19:03:13, BarnabyWilde wrote:

Oooohhh...wise words from the almighty king of wisdom.

Backatchya, dude... ;) Press on, man! Or, should I say,... keep diggin'... [smiley=shovel.gif] [smiley=RIP.gif]

Title: Re: How do you know you're in a deeeeeeeep keeper
Post by BarnabyWilde on Oct 18^th, 2006, 8:17pm

You are soooooo funny. Not.

Title: Re: How do you know you're in a deeeeeeeep keeper
Post by steelkings on Oct 19^th, 2006, 6:45am

Quote:

Mike Shanny, who was sniffing around him hard this past offseason

Quote:

Shanny, Mr. RB, was sniffin' around him this past offseason

[offtopic] The use of the term "Sniffing" seems very Inappropriate when it comes to Ricky Williams. Kinda like saying Ricky will be huffing and puffing while playing in the Mile High city[/offtopic]

Title: Re: How do you know you're in a deeeeeeeep keeper
Post by Philly on Oct 19^th, 2006, 2:51pm

on 10/18/06 at 16:55:10, StegRock wrote:

First off, if there was a book of Fantasy Manlaws, page one would detail the fact that boasting about past championships won (and your use of bold seems to indicate ~~boasting~~ gloating) is weak. [smiley=pullleeeeeeeze.gif] [smiley=hellyeafunny.gif]

That being said, even if he does end up in Denver, who is to say that he's suddenly the next Clinton Portis in that system? I don't know the specifics of his situation in Canada (i.e. offensive system, quality of line, etc.), but he's hardly tearing it up in Toronto. When he comes back, it will be 4 seasons since he's had any significant success in the NFL. It's quite possible that all the wear and tear on his body at the beginning of his career (not to mention the use of illegal substances) has helped to accelerate the deterioration of his skills. He'll be 30 years old before camps start next summer. He's no spring chicken any more, especially at the RB position. [smiley=wiseman.gif]

on 10/18/06 at 19:26:25, StegRock wrote:

What is that old saying... "a leopard can't change its spots"? I think that is probably apropos here. After all, there is a reason he is playing in the great white north this season instead of sunny Florida... (Has something to do with the leopard's spots, if I recall correctly.) As for his value over a Ramsey or a Cobbs? Well, they probably didn't deserve a roster spot in the first place, but that's another argument.

Title: Re: How do you know you're in a deeeeeeeep keeper
Post by captainpurple on Oct 19^th, 2006, 3:51pm

I think the GBRFL2 needs to start IDPers. I take Rod Carruth with my 1st pick.

;D [smiley=deadhorse.gif]

Title: Re: How do you know you're in a deeeeeeeep keeper
Post by BarnabyWilde on Oct 19^th, 2006, 6:21pm

Who is Rod Carruth? Did you mean Ray? ?.?.?

Title: Re: How do you know you're in a deeeeeeeep keeper
Post by StegRock on Oct 19^th, 2006, 6:49pm

Weak arguments... :-/

on 10/19/06 at 14:51:03, Philly wrote:

Gloating about Championships WON I personally have no problem with. (If you haven't won one yet, I can see how that might get under your skin, though, something some of you seem to want to do to me almost exclusively anymore?) ;) Isn't that what we're doing here? There's no money. There's not even any awards in this league. People who "gloat" (if you can call it that) about future "Championships" (of whatever kind) is what I find inane. BUT, IN ANY EVENT, it was only brought up to substantiate "authority" on the matter. Yea, there's a little rah-rah there, but who over here "really" gives a rat's ass. It's not a "Championship" over any of you, BUT ALL FOUR of them ARE in THIS format, which I've been playing successfully in since 1989. Take it for what it's worth, but don't be an ass to me about it.

Quote:

That being said, even if he does end up in Denver, who is to say that he's suddenly the next Clinton Portis in that system? I don't know the specifics of his situation in Canada (i.e. offensive system, quality of line, etc.), but he's hardly tearing it up in Toronto. When he comes back, it will be 4 seasons since he's had any significant success in the NFL. It's quite possible that all the wear and tear on his body at the beginning of his career (not to mention the use of illegal substances) has helped to accelerate the deterioration of his skills. He'll be 30 years old before camps start next summer. He's no spring chicken any more, especially at the RB position. [smiley=wiseman.gif]

I'm not saying he will be the next Clinton Portis. It's an "upswing" possibility, though. Again, he comes at virtually no cost, other than holding on to him. ... But, that's your position. I see whence you are coming. At this time, I disagree,... but I don't need to add to my disagreement pot-shots.

Quote:

Look... I would take Ricky Williams over much "better" players than Ramsey and Cobbs (it just so happens that they were the two players in fact dropped for him) in a GBRFL league or any DEEEEP keeper like this. I get a laugh, though, Jeff... Where is the guy who had Ramsey on his roster in the standings, and where are you? And, please, since you are into adages and proverbs today and casting stones, make sure your own glass house is in order. ::)

Bottom line,... you're not the one who picked him up and has to hold on to him like forever. Jamie is... I am... It'll all come out in the wash eventually... Why put so much energy into criticizing my take and take shots at me? I didn't take shots at yous... I just made posts stating facts of the matter and telling yous what I thought, thinking that yous would like to hear "Steg's take" and (quietly and respectfully) file it away for future reference. But, instead, a couple of YOUS decided to take shots at me for doing so. I "responded" accordingly. Look,... take my insights or leave them. It's your prerogative. There's no reason to chew me up in the meat-grinder in the process. It just ends up being a lot of wasted time and energy (which could be spent doing more "productive" things... here). If you think my take is not of value, ignore it, and give yours if you want. BUT, don't take it to be an opportunity to take pot-shots. That's just Busch League. Ultimately, (I'd think) you('d) got to respect that I walk the talk. I too have saddled myself with Williams, so it's not like I am just "spouting off" here. [smiley=idontknow.gif]

Title: Re: How do you know you're in a deeeeeeeep keeper
Post by Philly on Oct 19^th, 2006, 10:18pm

Sheesh... someone's got their panties in a bind. ::)

The only "pot-shot" I took at you was for your boasting about past championships. I find that presenting the old "I've won (insert number here) fantasy championships" to add credibility to your opinion is weak, whether it happens here or anywhere else on the internet. I would be willing to bet that I'm not alone in that opinion.

The rest of the post was presenting my own opinion of Ricky Williams's future in the NFL, and thusly, fantasy football. The pot-shots (an appropriate term [smiley=kb.gif] given the player in question) were directed toward Ricky himself. If you felt that they were potshots at you, well, then (as Colin Cowherd would say) that's a you problem.

I'm just offering my opinion that I don't feel that adding Ricky Williams to a roster will prove to be a fruitful exercise - for you or for Jamie. But it's obvious my opinion isn't as valuable as yours since I'm currently running at the bottom of the standings here and have not won a championship in my three years in this format - as you are quick to point out.

Title: Re: How do you know you're in a deeeeeeeep keeper
Post by StegRock on Oct 19^th, 2006, 10:59pm

on 10/19/06 at 22:18:39, Philly wrote:

Sheesh... someone's got their panties in a bind. ::)

The only "pot-shot" I took at you was for your boasting about past championships. I find that presenting the old "I've won (insert number here) fantasy championships" to add credibility to your opinion is weak, whether it happens here or anywhere else on the internet. I would be willing to bet that I'm not alone in that opinion.

The rest of the post was presenting my own opinion of Ricky Williams's future in the NFL, and thusly, fantasy football. The pot-shots (an appropriate term [smiley=kb.gif] given the player in question) were directed toward Ricky himself. If you felt that they were potshots at you, well, then (as Colin Cowherd would say) that's a you problem.

[quote]I'm just offering my opinion that I don't feel that adding Ricky Williams to a roster will prove to be a fruitful exercise - for you or for Jamie. But it's obvious my opinion isn't as valuable as yours since I'm currently running at the bottom of the standings here and have not won a championship in my three years in this format - as you are quick to point out.

ONLY in retaliation, Jeff!!! And, NO, I'm not bent out of shape about your making fun of pot-head Ricky. I've been there, done that... myself. What he did to the Dolphins was totally fucked up, and, yes, weed may end up putting out any glimmer of hope his admittedly dwindling future may hold. That part of your spiel I responded to VERY matter-of-factly. I see whence you are coming. You don't feel he's worth putting on a Week 3 or Week 6 2006 GBRFL roster. That's a reasonable,... hell,... that's the conventional take. But, Jamie does. So do I. He has him. I do, too. You don't. What's the problem? What are you(s) trying to convince Jamie and I to drop him?

Moreover, I remain flexible. I accept that things are subject to change and accept that risk, [smiley=yinandyang.gif] so at the end of the day it's really no loss. It's Ricky and ALL his possibilities and ALL the probabilities of those possibilities as of Week 3 that I put on my roster Week 3. I don't deny "ALL" those possibilities. The question is,... do you? I may have put a guy on my team, letting him take up a roster spot for the next 10 months, only to wind up cutting him. But, there is another side of the coin. This situation is not so much about "predicting" [smiley=crystalball.gif] as it is "weighing" (though predicting is surely a part of the process of weighing).

In any event, while I, in general, certainly agree with you that in a faceless, cyber environment with dudes coming from all kinds of different league systems touting their "Championships" so as to add credibility to their opinion "in general" is rather lame (so, no, you're not alone), this is NOT such a "generalized" case. The fact that you lump it thusly is an insult to me. On the other hand, I guess you've got it figured out,... so fuck the guy who's played in THIS system for 18 years and, moreover (as further facts worth considering), has been successful in it, winning 4 Championships and having an overall astonishing record (having his only losing season since 1993 last year, and that was kind of "by plan" as I switched to rebuilding mode coming off that fourth championship, but humbly acknowledging that my team was seriously aging and not ready for another run). Again, my pointing out your "history" in the system is ONLY a function of your reacting to/erroneously calling me out for my pointing out mine. The problem here isn't the pointing out of "histories" in THIS system. That's part of figuring out the solutions, in fact. If you don't like that, then work hard to change your history in the league. Otherwise, don't bitch about others pointing to their successes as case in point and/or reason for assent, which is a valid move as, contrary to what you are presenting, "success" IS a great way to determine "authority" on a matter (in fact, what better way is there?) and, perhaps, see what you can learn... even if you don't swallow the whole ball of wax all the time.

Title: Re: How do you know you're in a deeeeeeeep keeper
Post by BarnabyWilde on Oct 20^th, 2006, 12:00pm

on 10/18/06 at 18:43:55, StegRock wrote:

This statement has been eating at me for a few days now. What does me getting the shaft each and every year by YOU have to do with anything? I had RW on my roster at the end of the season. He burned me like he did Chumpzilla.

Why should I heed this if I feel picking up Williams is a stupid move? Just because you've won 4 championships in this format? That does not change the fact that Ricky is a washed up pot head who will never be his old self again. If he does do well next year, I guess you can say, I told you so. Whoopee.

Title: Re: How do you know you're in a deeeeeeeep keeper
Post by StegRock on Oct 20^th, 2006, 10:11pm

on 10/20/06 at 12:00:11, BarnabyWilde wrote:

If he does do well next year, I guess you can say, I told you so. Whoopee.

No... Fuck the "talk"... IF he makes a strong comeback next year (a BIG "IF", I grant), I won't just be talking about it (I probably won't bring it up again), he'll be having his strong comeback on my team. In any event, on a number of fronts, last year wasn't the year to get in the Ricky ballgame (read, VERY risky business; that had to be known). He was good earlier in his career, and I think he is WELL worth taking a flyer on now... in a DEEP keeper league.

Title: Re: How do you know you're in a deeeeeeeep keeper
Post by Chumpzilla on Oct 20^th, 2006, 11:21pm

on 10/20/06 at 22:11:32, StegRock wrote:

In any event, on a number of fronts, last year wasn't the year to get in the Ricky ballgame

So when I took a chance two years ago and got fucked it wasn't the time... and last year when BW took a chance and got fucked it wasn't the time... BUT this year, it's worth the gamble??? [smiley=bonghit.gif] Good Luck! ;D

Title: Re: How do you know you're in a deeeeeeeep keeper
Post by StegRock on Oct 20^th, 2006, 11:28pm

TWO years ago,... no... That came out of NOwhere (though, given his history in general, I don't know if I would have traded for him)... Last year,... with a new coach spending a high draft on a tailback with whom he is familiar, the atrocious thing he did to the team just a year prior, the fact that he was probably not in the best football shape, etc., etc.,... no, it wasn't an "auspicious" time to get on the Ricky bandwagon (especially if he was being traded for).

Title: Re: How do you know you're in a deeeeeeeep keeper
Post by Chumpzilla on Oct 21^st, 2006, 10:50am

Can anyone tell my "Ricky" scars haven't healed yet? [smiley=hellyeafunny.gif]

Regardless of what happens, it's a shame he didn't "stay the course." Before he got "screwed up" he was a stud RB.

Title: Re: How do you know you're in a deeeeeeeep keeper
Post by Walker Boh on Oct 21^st, 2006, 12:55pm

I think the important point everyone is overlooking here is the fact that we picked him up for FREE. We didn't have to use a draft pick, or lose anything substantial in a trade to get him, all it took was a roster spot. That's it. In my case, I dropped a 3rd string QB that has yet to play this season, and as Philly stated, probably had no business being on my team to begin with. I drafted Ramsey as insurance for Pennington, but he failed to land the back up job, and that made him extremely expendable. A RB with Williams' track record, both good and bad, is well worth the "risk" of picking him up. What's the worst thing that can happen? He doesn't come back to the NFL? He comes back and sits on the bench? He just plain sucks? So what, I'll drop him. Again, what did it cost me? Now think of the (very possible) upside. A starting RB for a 3rd string QB.

LOW RISK + HIGH REWARD = GOOD MOVE

Title: Re: How do you know you're in a deeeeeeeep keeper
Post by BarnabyWilde on Oct 21^st, 2006, 1:50pm

Ah, but it will cost you a protection spot, if you do decide to keep him. Therein lies the cost.

Title: Re: How do you know you're in a deeeeeeeep keeper
Post by BarnabyWilde on Oct 21^st, 2006, 1:52pm

Opinions are like assholes...eveybody's got one. You also have become quite a big one, and let's just say, I am not the only one who's noticed. Have a GREAT DAY!!!

on 10/20/06 at 22:11:32, StegRock wrote:

Title: Re: How do you know you're in a deeeeeeeep keeper
Post by Chumpzilla on Oct 21^st, 2006, 5:21pm

on 10/21/06 at 12:55:44, Walker Boh wrote:

I think the important point everyone is overlooking here is the fact that we picked him up for FREE.

Nope! Trust me. I'm not missing the point. In most cases, you get what you pay for.

Title: Re: How do you know you're in a deeeeeeeep keeper
Post by StegRock on Oct 21^st, 2006, 6:42pm

on 10/21/06 at 13:50:49, BarnabyWilde wrote:

Ah, but it will cost you a protection spot, if you do decide to keep him. Therein lies the cost.

If at that point he's worth protecting, it'll have been well worth it.

Title: Re: How do you know you're in a deeeeeeeep keeper
Post by StegRock on Oct 21^st, 2006, 7:06pm

on 10/21/06 at 13:52:41, BarnabyWilde wrote:

Opinions are like assholes...eveybody's got one. You also have become quite a big one, and let's just say, I am not the only one who's noticed. Have a GREAT DAY!!!

Wow!!! What a statement to greet me with... This is REALLY lowdown... [smiley=nono.gif] and duly noted... It's a statement I'll definitely look back upon at certain times in the future to "remind myself"... "All things 'considered'" here today, I even shared this one with my wife. She just shook her head (and gave me some sound advice)... [smiley=no.gif] Anyway, that's a really terrible and discouraging statement... I'd like those people who think I've become such a "big asshole" (as to merit being greeted by this kind of vitriole) to really look into their hearts and really think whether or not that's a fair and accurate depiction of me (to have deeply-seated in your heart and mind)... Since we're at it, though, would any of these ("droves" [smiley=idontknow.gif] of) "others" want to step up and take a whack at the old Stegger, too??? :-/ Or, maybe it's just the lack of people who will get my back here that proves Jim here right... [smiley=no.gif] Wow... What an awful, awful thing to have said... It was meant to be seriously hurtful and really nothing else!!! Why you would want to do that to me I can't fathom?!?! :-/

This is surely NOT what I do all this for!!! [smiley=nono.gif] ... [smiley=wavinbye.gif]

Title: Re: How do you know you're in a deeeeeeeep keeper
Post by BarnabyWilde on Oct 21^st, 2006, 7:53pm

It was not meant to be hurtful, just an truthful observation.Sometimes, I do feel like you are just a big jerk who does not listen to anybody's opinions when it comes to this website. And given our recent PM conversation...well, that just made me angry, given how much I put into "your" site...and feel I got shafted, once again. Then, you go and make a smart ass remark about me to stop bitchin about being in the bottom five in the GBRFL2. Thanks for that too.

Bottom line, you can sit there and berate someone and make them feel 2 inches tall, with your big words and all, but then when someone goes and makes comments in your direction, then they are hurtful statements. Then, you need people to rally behind you and "get your back". Well, I have been that person time and time again. It works both ways, my friend.

Title: Re: How do you know you're in a deeeeeeeep keeper
Post by MordecaiCourage on Oct 21^st, 2006, 9:06pm

35 Posts and climbing!!!!! This is truly amazing...let's try to get it to 100. Wouldn't that be swell! ::)

Title: Re: How do you know you're in a deeeeeeeep keeper
Post by StegRock on Oct 21^st, 2006, 10:45pm

What-the-fuck-ever... It was subjective, somewhat tendentious (at least, in that it "spoke for uncorroborated others") and ad hominem, and, in any event, you started this when you posted...

on 10/18/06 at 18:34:16, BarnabyWilde wrote:

The 4 time champ can K. M. A. ::)

Before that, I made two posts stating my case and relevant facts of the matter to support that case,... period, end of report,... whether or not you or anybody likes that case or those facts. They are what they are.

And, my shit's just potent because I have a memory like an... [smiley=elephant.gif] and it rings true to, not my words, but the words of the person I am challenging (ultimately, to think more seriously about their words and actions). You know I am a watch[smiley=dog.gif] for consistency (of personality) and am into keeping people on their toes with respect with what they decide to put in print. I want people to make sure they make sense. I don't just make unsupported, ad hominem attacks.

...

Now, regarding what you wrote above with more specificity...

on 10/21/06 at 19:53:53, BarnabyWilde wrote:

It was not meant to be hurtful, just an truthful observation.

Subjective and I suspect VERY biased for some reason that I don't quite know yet, but seems to be coming to a boiling point (which I fear the potentially devastating effects of) because you've been "different" with me for some time.

Quote:

Sometimes, I do feel like you are just a big jerk who does not listen to anybody's opinions when it comes to this website.

Ad hominem attack number two... And, where have I heard this kind of rhetoric before??? And, what does it really mean??? I mean... really??? You got a secret up your sleeve about how to make the "big strides" around here, like getting financing for the magazine, you want me to hear??? By all means, lay it on me!!!

Basically, by and large, I find that people who have this attitude are those who start believing their "headlines" and get too big for their britches. I mean... You do do and have done quite a bit for the site, Jim... Thank you! [smiley=bow.gif] If you think you are "owed", though,... even though I look forward to someday giving back to those who have stepped up to the plate for me,... that's ultimately the wrong attitude (to have with me). (Let me tease this notion out... with an example I recently used in a Confucianism seminar regarding the attitudes parents and children should have toward one another. This won't directly map onto our discussion here, but it will provide a good analogue. Parents should not expect their children to take care of them during their old age, BUT should be open to their children's doing so. Likewise, children should feel like they should take care of their parents in their old age, BUT should be open to their not having to do so. [smiley=yinandyang.gif] ... [smiley=zenmaster.gif] You follow...???) Anyway, Jim, if you feel like you are doing too much and not getting enough in return, perhaps you need to cut back on what you are doing around here, and, frankly speaking, friend, whatever you do, do NOT send another donation, not if it's going to be part (and perhaps parcel) of this angst of yours towards me. ... As a matter of fact, though, those who do do more, should have a much greater appreciation of ALL I do and have done... I mean... you have done quite a bit... How do you think it stacks up against what I do and have done percentage-wise, though???

Patience is a virtue... There is a time and place for everything. But, if you burn your bridge before that time and place has arrived,... :-/

Quote:

And given our recent PM conversation...well, that just made me angry, given how much I put into "your" site...and feel I got shafted, once again.

If you were so angered by this reply of mine,...

on 10/20/06 at 22:05:57, admin wrote:

IF what he was proposing comes to pass, given the "scope" of his project vis-a-vis, let's say the GOTG, I felt it was a good move for the "greater good" of the site to let their board be on top. BUT, as I have stated in the "Locker Room", I have a feeling I'll be deleting it here soon enough. Thank you for your anticipated understanding, though.

Out,
Steg

...I can't help that. Again, (I suspect) there is WAY more going on here,... which I am just seeing the outer skin of, but which I am SURE I don't want to experience the full brunt of (because it is going to take way too many hours of my life trying to disabuse, at least in the right manner).

In any event, since we are "deferring" to "unknown others",... which I truly hope aren't in fact just a couple of guys fueling each other's fires,... let me say that there are also "others" who understand quite well, from the "bigger picture" perspective, why I had decided to do what I did. (That's also not to mention that, if you think this "argument" all the way through, the NAFFLIU's board should probably be listed above the GoTG's. The NAFFLIU and its board, though it is rarely used, have been in existence way longer than the GoTG, and they have a web site of their own and are part of the (granted, back-burner project of the) FFLA.) In any event, though, after feeling badly all last night about how you felt (rightfully or not) about what I did, I came to a fair-minded (though, really unnecessary) resolution and spent a good hour and a half making it a reality. YOU're welcome! (Don't worry... Given your frame of mind, I didn't expect a thanks.)

BUT, at any rate, ULTIMATELY, "it" and the decisions I make for the betterment and future of this site are NOT about you, Jim. When people start thinking that it is "about them", that's when angst builds up like it has here.

Oh, and by the way, it is you, NOT me, who has opened the doors to the discussion of our "private messages". So, don't go pulling some backdoor bullshit on me. I'm not going to let you just bring it up in an ad hoc and tendentious way in public,... especially not when I went to great pains to "make it right" (even though I should not have been made to feel like what I did was otherwise).

Quote:

Then, you go and make a smart ass remark about me to stop bitchin about being in the bottom five in the GBRFL2.

As I stated above, you left yourself open to such a move. If you can, take that (important) lesson as a lesson learned and grow from it... or not.

Quote:

Bottom line, you can sit there and berate someone and make them feel 2 inches tall, with your big words and all...

"Revealing..."

Quote:

...but then when someone goes and makes comments in your direction, then they are hurtful statements.

They are hurtful in that they truly are ad hominem,... extra bothersome in that they are not well-founded or -thought-through... or, at least, -presented.

Quote:

Then, you need people to rally behind you and "get your back". Well, I have been that person time and time again. It works both ways, my friend.

It does work both ways. You get my back. I'll get yours. This is not a case of that, though. It's not that you do things for me and the site, including get my back (sometimes of your own accord, going back in time, but rarely unpromptedly... anymore), and I start playing favorites and making "business" decisions based on what (all of) you think I "owe" you. You do things for the site (and me merely as a matter of fact if you want to get right down to it since I see what you are exhibiting here) strictly out of the goodness of your heart and, maybe, secondarily, with an eye toward the "bigger picture" I am trying so hard to make happen here, BUT NOT with anything specific or "small"/"small-minded"/"petty" (like the order in which the board for the GoTG is listed in the "Affiliate Leagues" section) in mind. You don't make it tit-for-tat. You don't even put me in such a position... if you have any "bigger picture" respect for my efforts here... even if not or no longer for me as a person.

[smiley=no.gif]

Title: Re: How do you know you're in a deeeeeeeep keeper
Post by Frog Princess on Oct 22^nd, 2006, 12:04am

on 10/21/06 at 13:52:41, BarnabyWilde wrote:

Opinions are like assholes...eveybody's got one. You also have become quite a big one, and let's just say, I am not the only one who's noticed. Have a GREAT DAY!!!

You are young, my son, and, as the years go by, time will change and even reverse many of your present opinions. Refrain therefore awhile from setting yourself up as a judge of the highest matters.
Plato (427 BC - 347 BC), Dialogues, Theatetus

Title: Re: How do you know you're in a deeeeeeeep keeper
Post by steelkings on Oct 22^nd, 2006, 8:14am

Purhaps if the two of you(BarnabyWilde,Steg) would act more like our subject:

http://archi-reggae.blog.excite.it/img/tosh.jpg

I wouldn't have to read Plato on the GBRFL2 website!

Title: Re: How do you know you're in a deeeeeeeep keeper
Post by BarnabyWilde on Oct 22^nd, 2006, 10:24am

Well, I am done here(on this thread). Thank you for moving my board Steg. I do appreciate your efforts. Sorry if I ruffled a few feathers here guys. I am just very fustrated.

Sincerely,

BW

Title: Re: How do you know you're in a deeeeeeeep keeper
Post by StegRock on Oct 22^nd, 2006, 12:34pm

on 10/22/06 at 10:24:29, BarnabyWilde wrote:

I am just very fustrated.

As it concerns matters here,... about what??? Get it out of your system now (if you haven't already (I'm guessing not and, thus, that we've just pushed the bulge in the carpet to a different time and place betwixt which you are not going to have one kind or compassionate word for me, earthquakes inclusive, [smiley=scared.gif] as you "walk the line" gritting your teeth)). (If it happens to involve StegsList.com, I'd suggest having a sit-down with Gene Nestro, Primer. He'd be able to shed some light and save me the effort of having to do so.) As it doesn't concern matters here,... best of luck working it out. [smiley=letsmakeup.gif]

Title: Re: How do you know you're in a deeeeeeeep keeper
Post by Philly on Oct 22^nd, 2006, 1:07pm

Sorry I'm getting here so late, but I've been away from the computer all weekend and only catching up on things now.

As another long-timer here who feels he has put in a fairly significant amount of effort in helping to provide content (articles, weekly reports, message board posts, etc.), not to mention a fairly significant amount of other assistance in the form of donations, I have to agree with BW here somewhat. There have been some changes in attitude in you Steg, over the recent past. And Jim and I haven't been "fueling each others fires". I've become frustrated with some of your responses and your general attitude lately, and merely shared an "Is it just me?" type of email with him late last week. That email may have prompted him to post what he did, knowing he wasn't alone in his thoughts.

I'm starting to wonder if this is becoming less and less a fantasy football site and more a place for Steg to tell people how to think and act. I understand how important philosophy and the idea of "thought" is to you, but you seem to be unable to separate it from much else.

I guess Jim and I have more to gain (and lose) than most others here on the site because we've probably been more involved in a lot of the things going on since the beginning. I'm certainly not trying to take away from what you've done, but it is your site after all (a point which you're happy to share).

Maybe it's just that we (and I shouldn't be speaking for Jim here, but I sort of read that from his responses) don't feel any sense of ownership of anything here. If I share a thought about something to possibly improve the website, it seems like it's not welcome--just more of a burden for you. Off the top of my head, I can only think of one real suggestion I specifically made that was implemented (taking the borders off the list of team reports above). When I ask questions about some methods to reduce the spam (something that we find quite irritating), I get it thrown back in my face. I provided quite a bit of content at one time, but you made it fairly clear to me that the content alone wasn't worth as much as a check.

I think maybe it might be a good time for you to really look in the mirror and ask yourself some questions about the people you're hoping to surround yourself with to bring the site to greater heights, and also think about how you're treating them.

Title: Re: How do you know you're in a deeeeeeeep keeper
Post by captainpurple on Oct 22^nd, 2006, 1:14pm

[smiley=nono.gif] Wow....

I certainly didn't mean to stir up this kind of hornets nest. I was just observing the humor inherent in our obsessive sport, and pointing out the pickup in relation to a conversation happening in other parts of the GridIron:

Holding Out Some Hope... (http://www.fantasyfootballer.com/cgi-bin/theGridiron/YaBB.cgi?board=56;action=display;num=1160148810)

Sorry it's come to this, and hopefully you ALL know this didn't start with malicious intent.

Now, whose got my lute and kumbaya lyrics? ;D [smiley=bonghit.gif]

Title: Re: How do you know you're in a deeeeeeeep keeper
Post by StegRock on Oct 22^nd, 2006, 2:36pm

on 10/22/06 at 13:07:33, Philly wrote:

As another long-timer here who feels he has put in a fairly significant amount of effort in helping to provide content (articles, weekly reports, message board posts, etc.), not to mention a fairly significant amount of other assistance in the form of donations, I have to agree with BW here somewhat.

What's the somewhat part??? I've heard the "some" part... What's the "what" part??? Just to keep things "fair" and "balanced". I wasn't the one calling anyone an, and I quote, "asshole" and "big jerk". Find me doing so once, Jeff,... EVER!!!

Quote:

There have been some changes in attitude in you Steg, over the recent past.

That's good to know I'm growing,... [smiley=zenmaster.gif] but,...

Quote:

I've become frustrated with some of your responses and your general attitude lately, and merely shared an "Is it just me?" type of email with him late last week. That email may have prompted him to post what he did, knowing he wasn't alone in his thoughts.

I thought you said, "Jim and I haven't been 'fueling each others fires'." ?.?.? What you say there is exactly stoking the fires.

Yous know what... I've been frustrated with some of you guys' responses and general attitude with me lately.

"You've become frustrated with MY responses..." How droll? You mean the fact that I participate religiously on your "Gridiron Guarantee" threads when you, I believe, have yet to on "the Red Zone PRIMED Players and Mirages" threads, which is supposed to be a "duty"!?!? You mean the kudos I just gave you earlier today on the "Eagles In-season Report" thread. You mean all the thanks I give you guys. How about the "Go Rutgers" post I made, mainly for you, up on "the Sidelines"? On the other hand, I received more e-mails, phone calls, private messages and even posts right up on the boards here from friends and family expressing concern last week given the earthquake. How about the two guys conspicuously absent from any of that? NARY A WORD of kindness or concern from either of you!!! Instead, actually, in the case of Jim, some bullshit is what I got last week.

In your case, Jeff,... really,... you haven't been the same with me ever since we went at it over that college chick story I told back in the day. That's fine. We live and learn about one another. But, though my knowledge has, my attitude toward you has really never changed (we'll get to the suggestion stuff below). I get your back... like with Bill, but you don't even appreciate it or, at least, you appreciate it only in a very guarded fashion. On the other hand, you barely give me a thank you anymore, at least one that isn't either obviously reluctant or immediately "mitigated". For example, herein, you write, "I'm certainly not trying to take away from what you've done," and then go on to write, "but it is your site after all (a point which you're happy to share)." Virtually nothing sincerely positive comes from you to me anymore. It's ALL guarded!

Now, granted, we have some fundamental different attitudes when it comes to the hobby. You are VERY invested in rookie analysis and the NFL Draft. It's a part-time job of yours. I just don't think rookies and analysis thereof and, hence, the NFL Draft are that important when it comes to (efficient) fantasy football analysis. That's a sticky point, man,... a point in which you are HEAVILY invested and on which we seriously disagree. This, I am sure, is in your craw. But, the disagreement isn't going anywhere. I'm unlikely to be converted (but I never say never), and I have no interest in changing your mind. I'm cool with the work you do in that direction. But, it doesn't mean I am going to remain absolutely silent about it (the irony). And, there are other differences, some just as poignant as this one. But, I can let bygones be bygones. Neither they nor any more "philosophical" disagreements we've had will change my overall attitude toward you in an overarching way. What I mean is, though I will go at it with you over this or that, having it out with you over this or that will not prevent me from extending the peace pipe and, for example, rooting for and acknowledging in public your Rutgers Scarlet Knights. But, was your angst part of your not expressing well wishes to me last week??? Now, there's a question requiring soul-searching...

Quote:

I'm starting to wonder if this is becoming less and less a fantasy football site and more a place for Steg to tell people how to think and act. I understand how important philosophy and the idea of "thought" is to you, but you seem to be unable to separate it from much else.

(but)...in fact, I haven't really changed in my administration and running of the site at all if you reeeeally think about it. I think that you all's hubris, in light of your contributions, which you (both) should probably cut down on, that has.

Quote:

Maybe it's just that we (and I shouldn't be speaking for Jim here, but I sort of read that from his responses) don't feel any sense of ownership of anything here.

You "own" your teams in the GBRFL2 and the CBFL. You "own" your Eagles, Giants, Bengals and Lions reports and fantasy articles. You "own" that which you've put in,... all of which, you have to remember, no matter how "much" it is, still only represents a fraction of what is "done" here. It just is what it is, man!

Quote:

If I share a thought about something to possibly improve the website, it seems like it's not welcome--just more of a burden for you. Off the top of my head, I can only think of one real suggestion I specifically made that was implemented (taking the borders off the list of team reports above). When I ask questions about some methods to reduce the spam (something that we find quite irritating), I get it thrown back in my face. I provided quite a bit of content at one time, but you made it fairly clear to me that the content alone wasn't worth as much as a check.

Believe it or not, I hear you here, man. But, it is what it is. I am at the point where I really NEED revenue to get this thing where I want it (i.e. cutting some checks for those who are in the trenches with me). But, to the degree that this sentence may seem to suggest (to an outsider looking in) that I am a money-grubber,... come on!!!

This also speaks to the "kind of" suggestions you ask me to take care of. I mean,... come on, Jeff. I'm incorporating people's stuff all the time. Even despite patting our new member Froggy on the back, but, in true Steggy fashion, slapping her in the face on the way in, I went out and got her a couple "alien" smilies that she wanted. Unpromptedly, I added the "spock" graphic steelkings used for me. I have and have not purchased domain names based on you all's thoughts and I did add a "meta keywords" phrase to my pages based on a search-engine optimization suggestion you made. There are graphics of yours, Jeff, on this site. Back in the day, when the suggestions were more modest, regarding basic font, background, table and cell colors and appearance, graphics, smilies, and basic features, you (all) made a HUGE difference. I just do it very seamlessly... in a sense, and (I think) you are forgetting, and to be honest, the more technical the "work" gets, which is getting to be more and more so the case, the more seamless it ALL is. These days, the suggestions you make aren't so simple for me to deal with/implement, and I don't necessarily want to have to explain myself all the time. There are just some things (like upgrading the forum, which is going to be a nightmare as things stand given the manual tweaks I've made and lack of regular upgrades I've been able to make) that aren't going to happen until I can afford to have a professional come in and do them for me. Furthermore, your approach in bringing some of these things up is, well, lacking. One time you suggested a security measure (in light of all the spammers we're attracting as of late) and in doing so gave me an entire in-service on my administrator control panel here... as if I don't have every nook and cranny of it memorized like the back of my hand AND as though I don't know the options I do have, which I had mentioned I would eventually do, but haven't just yet... for reasons I don't feel like having to explain nor should I have to. What's happening, though, is that you are filling in the gap there negatively, instead of giving me the benefit of the doubt. Furthermore, when I do mention something, like in this situation, leave it alone after that. I said there was a move I would make. When you push me on it, seemingly forgetting that I said there was a move I would make and giving me a lesson in the program I have come to know inside and out, it's going to rub me the wrong way. Bottom line, if a good suggestion doesn't get done or I respond negatively to it or, for that matter, anything "progessive" isn't getting done without even being suggested, there's probably good reason. To think otherwise is to insult my intelligence and, moreover, my LOVE of this site, this BABY of mine (make no mistakes that is what this is for me; when you all are looking your newborns [smiley=newbie.gif] and toddlers in the eyes, something that is announced all the time, a family of my own is on hold, part and parcel because of this venture... and my philosophy on bearing and rearing children). I have NOTHING but the best of intentions for the site. But, one man with a thin wallet (and that's including a solid year of donations here) can only DO so much (just writing this is taking me more than 90 minutes,... during HOT football action where I (think I) am kicking ass, [smiley=awwgee.gif] which is what this is supposed to be about about (right?),... but I STILL have the transactions for the week for the two leagues STILL AHEAD of me here this morning :P). That said, differences ARE still being made. A security move to dissuade spammers is on the horizon (I'm holding off for a reason), and small things such as "meta keywords" as I mentioned above come out of your suggestions. Some of the stuff you are suggesting, though, just isn't (reasonably) doable given our current circumstances.

Quote:

I think maybe it might be a good time for you to really look in the mirror and ask yourself some questions about the people you're hoping to surround yourself with to bring the site to greater heights, and also think about how you're treating them.

And, you and especially Jim here, don't!?!? ?.?.?

I do EVERYDAY, Jeff!!! If there is really any "change" (I'd call it "growth"), it's precisely because I do... JUST LIKE I DID WHEN I "SUBSTANTIVELY" BEAT MYSELF UP ALL NIGHT LONG THE OTHER NIGHT REGARDING THE FUCKING PLACEMENT OF THE GoTG BOARD AND MADE A SOLID 90 MINUTES OF EXTRA (UNNECESSARY) "WORK" (yea, "work", Jeff) FOR MYSELF THAT I NEEDED LIKE A HOLE IN MY HEAD,... BUT I GOT SOMETHING DONE (that I am happy about and happy that Jim is happy about)!!! :-/

...

I really think you (guys) are losing sight of the "bigger picture"... perhaps out of impatience, perhaps because you feel like you are giving too much (which, I, again, even if it causes a slight regress, HIGHLY suggest your cutting back on if it is causing this skewed perception of me and this angst).

Title: Re: How do you know you're in a deeeeeeeep keeper
Post by steelkings on Oct 22^nd, 2006, 8:45pm

You guys shouldnt be doing this here on the public board. Thats what PM's are for. Your embarrassing each other and getting nothing accomplished in the process. The three of you have been around too long to be throwing stones at each other in front of everyone.

Move on!

Just my two cents [smiley=twocents.gif]

Title: Re: How do you know you're in a deeeeeeeep keeper
Post by StegRock on Oct 22^nd, 2006, 10:12pm

I tend to disagree with you, sk. First of all, I am not embarrassed at all by anything I've expressed herein. I mean... I see where you are coming from,... in general, but especially when it comes to name-calling. HOWEVER, I know I have no problem with what I've stated herein and will stand by just about every word of it, and I think it's important for you all to get to know who I am... for better or worse. This is surely a way to do so. These types of situations also allow me to further establish what I want to be the precedent this site is guided by. Besides that, I think that to get things out in the open, moreover, "out in the open" can be a healthy exercise. How people act in front of others is very telling and something, as a guy intending on turning this into a full-fledged business with offices someday, is interested in observing. Furthermore, in these forum environments, correspondence that goes on privately can get twisted and brought up in VERY tendential ways at calculated times in public and then the casualty count can become worse. Also, I, personally, don't mind having public record of such occurrances. I, at times, decide to take on certain "discussions" by private message. I think, for my intents and purposes, I have a reasonable pulse on when and where to "do my thing", i.e., I can behave myself, mommy.

Title: Re: How do you know you're in a deeeeeeeep keeper
Post by Walker Boh on Oct 22^nd, 2006, 10:34pm

on 10/21/06 at 13:52:41, BarnabyWilde wrote:

Opinions are like assholes...eveybody's got one. You also have become quite a big one, and let's just say, I am not the only one who's noticed. Have a GREAT DAY!!!

Wow BW, that was way out of line. Did Steg really deserve that? Here? At the very least, you could have sent him a private message, or even better, given him a call. Is your relationship with him really that meaningless to you? If this was my website, and you were working for/with me, I would kick your ass to the curb, and you'd deserve it. You and Philly seem to think that Steg is changing, but I just don't see it. I see the same fantasy football and philosophy geek that I've seen from day one. A guy that believes in what he writes, and expects others to be accountable for their words and actions. A guy that busts his ass to grow our site "the right way". A guy that deserves better then the shit you just pulled. Your complete lack of respect is unacceptable in my book. Though unfortunately, doesn't surprise me anymore.

Title: Re: How do you know you're in a deeeeeeeep keeper
Post by Frog Princess on Oct 22^nd, 2006, 11:09pm

Quote:

....I wouldn't have to read Plato on the GBRFL2 website!

There's a lot more where that came from!
[smiley=lightningbolt.gif] [smiley=numchuk.gif]

Title: Re: How do you know you're in a deeeeeeeep keeper
Post by Tony_O on Oct 22^nd, 2006, 11:23pm

on 10/22/06 at 22:34:09, Walker Boh wrote:

Hey Pot,

I realize that you must think that BW doesn't deserve the same respect as Steg(and I'm not implying that he does) or you would have IM'd this message to BW. Instead you are doing the same thing you are calling him out for.
Missing you, Kettle

I think all of the original parties, including Steve, said the things they were FEELING, but might have chosen the wrong time, place, and may have used some misplaced words. I for one have noticed that Steve seems to have been using curse words more frequently(which I wouldn't consider growth), however considering the latest events on his island, these words might have been formed out of the frustration in his mind and not from his heart and soul. That same situation(not the earthquake) probably goes for Jim too. That is my take. Although, it is probably not going to be recieved because unfortunately it seems like Steve would not consider me, someone with the position, standing, or intelligence to enlighten him.

Title: Re: How do you know you're in a deeeeeeeep keeper
Post by PrimeTime on Oct 22^nd, 2006, 11:26pm

on 10/22/06 at 23:09:27, Frog Princess wrote:

There's a lot more where that came from!
[smiley=lightningbolt.gif] [smiley=numchuk.gif]

Huh!?! ?.?.?

Title: Re: How do you know you're in a deeeeeeeep keeper
Post by Philly on Oct 22^nd, 2006, 11:31pm

on 10/22/06 at 14:36:30, StegRock wrote:

I'm not calling anyone names either. It's something I try very hard to avoid because I personally don't think it helps solve anything. I try to keep things civil...

Quote:

I thought you said, "Jim and I haven't been 'fueling each others fires'." ?.?.? What you say there is exactly stoking the fires.

What I intended to get across is that we haven't been encouraging each other to gang up and "get Steve". Like I said, it was really just an email to see if I was on an island in my perception of the situation here.

Quote:

Yous know what... I've been frustrated with some of you guys' responses and general attitude with me lately.

I would expect that. I know that I've felt a bit inclined to deal with you differently as a result of the attitude I'm feeling from you. It's probably not the "right" way to deal with things, but I know my patience with you has certainly been diminished and sometimes a snarky comment just feels better.

Quote:

"You've become frustrated with MY responses..." How droll? You mean the fact that I participate religiously on your "Gridiron Guarantee" threads when you, I believe, have yet to on "the Red Zone PRIMED Players and Mirages" threads, which is supposed to be a "duty"!?!?

Actually, I'm not sure what this has to do with my frustration. But since you want to go in this direction. I'm happy that you feel the need to be a Gridiron Guarantee zealot (although I get the impression that you're still not thrilled with the fact that I'd prefer it to be more of a fun, irreverant thread while you want it to be more of a legitimate prognostication). And I haven't been active on the threads you mention (although I'm sure I've done at least one so far, but that's not the point). And as far as it being a "duty"? Really? I'm trying to strike an appropriate balance between my career (the 12 hours a day I'm away from home), family (most weekends and a couple hours each night), and some me time (which is split pretty evenly between a couple websites). So I do what I can. I make sure I get an Eagles fantasy report up every week, with enough lead time before the game (and I also keep the reports fresh throughout the off-season). I try to get updates regarding the Eagles on the site. I try to read every post on the site and respond to the ones I can. Unfortunately, the Primed players and the mirages are things I just don't get time to prep for.

Quote:

You mean the kudos I just gave you earlier today on the "Eagles In-season Report" thread. You mean all the thanks I give you guys. How about the "Go Rutgers" post I made, mainly for you, up on "the Sidelines"?

This is all part of getting to know someone. A "thank you" or two (or ten) doesn't always offset an irritating post where your sole intent is to make me look bad or feel bad. I'm not the type who really cares one way or the other if I get thanked. But I react quite negatively to the other.

Quote:

On the other hand, I received more e-mails, phone calls, private messages and even posts right up on the boards here from friends and family expressing concern last week given the earthquake. How about the two guys conspicuously absent from any of that? NARY A WORD of kindness or concern from either of you!!!

And I see you're the type who needs constant stroking. Live and learn...

Quote:

In your case, Jeff,... really,... you haven't been the same with me ever since we went at it over that college chick story I told back in the day. That's fine. We live and learn about one another. But, though my knowledge has, my attitude toward you has really never changed (we'll get to the suggestion stuff below).

That story just rubbed me the wrong way, obviously. Honestly, I don't give it much (if any) thought now, but it did give me another view of you that I didn't like.

Quote:

I get your back... like with Bill, but you don't even appreciate it or, at least, you appreciate it only in a very guarded fashion.

Another can of worms here. I really disliked what Bill said to me, and I told him about it. But the thing is, I kind of liked Bill and what he brought to the website and (despite the whole mess) we came to an understanding and I accepted his sincere apology before he left. I'm a big boy here and am perfectly willing to fight my own battles (if that's what they become). Sometimes your stepping in to grab my back (without asking if that's what I really want) isn't appreciated. But I know that's something you feel like you need to do, so I let you.

Quote:

For example, herein, you write, "I'm certainly not trying to take away from what you've done," and then go on to write, "but it is your site after all (a point which you're happy to share)." Virtually nothing sincerely positive comes from you to me anymore. It's ALL guarded!

Like you mentioned about yourself before (in a response to Jim), I too have a pretty good memory and lots of people's comments get tucked away in the back of my mind. The ones that are most poignant, however, are the ones that strike me the wrong way.

Quote:

Now, granted, we have some fundamental different attitudes when it comes to the hobby. You are VERY invested in rookie analysis and the NFL Draft. It's a part-time job of yours. I just don't think rookies and analysis thereof and, hence, the NFL Draft are that important when it comes to (efficient) fantasy football analysis. That's a sticky point, man,... a point in which you are HEAVILY invested and on which we seriously disagree. This, I am sure, is in your craw.

Actually, it's not in my craw at all. Seriously. You don't do much in the way of IDP either. That doesn't mean it's not important. It's just not your bag. That's fine. I also understand that it's the vets, and not the rooks, that are the lifeblood of fantasy football. But that doesn't mean that the rookies don't warrant the analysis and interest. Look at the most recent GBRFL draft. All of the picks up until yours (irony?) were rookies (a total of 13 picks). Obviously there is some importance to the analysis and understanding of rookies in fantasy. But, it's not your thing, that's fine. You eat the apples and I'll eat the oranges... it's all still fruit...

Quote:

...What I mean is, though I will go at it with you over this or that, having it out with you over this or that will not prevent me from extending the peace pipe and, for example, rooting for and acknowledging in public your Rutgers Scarlet Knights. But, was your angst part of your not expressing well wishes to me last week??? Now, there's a question requiring soul-searching...

Honestly, it was a case of me being out of touch. This is the first weekend during the football season where I've actually been home for more than a couple hours on a Sunday, which is why I'm posting. I was completely unaware of the earthquake in Hawai'i and didn't know about it until after I logged in here and read that other than some tremors and a loss of electricity, you were far enough away from the epicenter to experience any real damage. There was no calculated intent NOT to respond with well-wishes... I'm not that evil-minded.

Quote:

And there are other people who have just as much ownership in a CBFL or GBRFL2 sense as we do and don't contribute an ounce of effort otherwise to the site. That's not the type of ownership that I was talking about. And I'm also not trying to compare what I do for the site with what you do for the site. It's not even comparable...

Quote:

I really think you (guys) are losing sight of the "bigger picture"... perhaps out of impatience, perhaps because you feel like you are giving too much (which, I, again, even if it causes a slight regress, HIGHLY suggest your cutting back on if it is causing this skewed perception of me and this angst).

Perhaps I am losing sight of the bigger picture. Maybe we could use a reminder once in a while as to what the bigger picture is and where the site is going. There's very little discussion of that. It's just a surprise here and there (StegsList and Co-Commissioner are the most recent). It's always something you've been cooking up that you essentially spring on the rest of us. Other than the publication, which you've at least mentioned (without going into too great of detail) there's very little discussion of the site's future, other than the fact that we're still on the way there.

Title: Re: How do you know you're in a deeeeeeeep keeper
Post by BarnabyWilde on Oct 23^rd, 2006, 12:18am

Wow, Tony, thank you for getting my back. I could not agree with you more on what wrote about Walker's post. He should have just minded his own business or just sent me a PM. And, I know WB, I am sure you only stepped up to say something because either A) Steg asked you to, or B) you are still bitter about the baseball league, which by the way everyone is this: 2 owners never paid, so Jamie got shorted some winnings. I can no longer reach these out of state people via email (I no longer have valid emails for them) so I can not collect. I was going to pay him out of my own pocket, but money is very tight around my house right now. After his post here, I no longer care about that. That's okay WB, I hold no real ill will towards you or Steg. I just said what was on my mind. I fell a bit better now that it is out, but I am sorry if I hurt Steg's feelings.

And Steve, my fustration has nothing to do with Steglist. But, since you brought it up, yes, I was pissed about getting the 5th pick in the GBRFL2 draft for the 3rd year in a row, which is why I have boycotted all the weekly posts Between the 20s. There are other things too, which I do not care to discuss here.

Now, I hope we can all just get along now. [smiley=letsmakeup.gif]

on 10/22/06 at 22:34:09, Walker Boh wrote:

Title: Re: How do you know you're in a deeeeeeeep keeper
Post by StegRock on Oct 23^rd, 2006, 2:52am

This should be fairly innocuous and even somewhat self-critical, but still reasonably/a little bit on the offensive, so don't get your panties in a ruffle,... sk... ;)

on 10/22/06 at 23:23:02, Tony_O wrote:

I for one have noticed that Steve seems to have been using curse words more frequently(which I wouldn't consider growth)...

Tony, I don't know where you've been,... but I've been cussing my fuckin' ass ;) off since day one. That's why it's part of the members agreement that you agree to when you sign up that this is a site for adults and that cursing is allowed. This smiley, [smiley=dick.jpg], I don't just endorse. I CREATED him... with mine own loins,... [smiley=LMFAO.gif] I mean, hands... [smiley=rollinwithlaughter.gif] Sometimes I go overboard... TO MY DETRIMENT. On the other hand, you don't know me well enough to lump this in with my growth... or lack thereof, which I will grant you as possible, but not something you are in a position to assess or comment on. The fact of the matter is, to be TOTALLY honest (with yous about myself), my potty mouth is, believe it or not, tied into my philosophy... of life (perhaps to my detriment). I mean... I am not oblivious to circumstances. I don't cuss at family picnics or in graduate seminars. But, I actually find nothing inherently wrong about using "bad" words to express, among various things, 1) poignant emotions and 2) wit/humor. I don't overuse cuss words, but I don't under-use them either. In any event, for better or worse, it's surely nothing new. It has nothing to do with the earthquake, which, again, was more of an inconvenience than anything. And, though you didn't say this, it has, at best, little to do with my overall growth as a "person" (and, in fact, I would argue that the jury is still out as to whether it is part of my growth as a person (and not a detriment to it) or not... despite what those of you who are devoutly religious/Christian or just straight-laced might say).

on 10/22/06 at 22:34:09, Walker Boh wrote:

...fantasy football and philosophy geek...

Thanks for getting my back, Jamo. But, what I've quoted here above,... Arrrgh! >:( ... ;) A geek is something I've never been, and while that doesn't stand for a row of beans to people who only know me via cyber-space and philosophy is choc-a-bloc of them, I cannot deny, (which drives me bananas) I am pretty sure you (and some of you others) know how much I hated the FFToday moniker of FF Geek and that I hate domain names like HuddleGeeks.com. I really dislike that our hobby is tagged with the geek stigma. Bad choice... [smiley=nownow.gif] I would have been more amenable to nerd, [smiley=nerd.gif] even... :D

on 10/22/06 at 23:31:39, Philly wrote:

That story just rubbed me the wrong way, obviously. Honestly, I don't give it much (if any) thought now, but it did give me another view of you that I didn't like.

Jeff, this is a tight rope to walk... We've met and hung out twice, remember... Consistency, my friend... I mean I didn't care what you divulged to me. Doesn't affect my impression of you one bit... But,... are you giving me the same slack??? That's all I have to say.

Quote:

I gotchya. And, I DEFINITELY know where you are coming from with the first part there. However, that is part of your "deal" here, for sure. But, in any event, all I am going to reiterate here is what I said earlier in one of the long treatises... While you all are growing families and what not, this is MY baby, and, yes, to some extent my having a family is on hold to see this through. So, just be "considerate" and "careful" when using such a word as "own" with my "baby" here. I mean... I know whence you are coming... in part. But, I don't think "ownership" is something you should expect. Something "like" that, perhaps, but even when the day (I so look forward to) comes to pass and I am cutting checks for those who "work" with/for FantasyFootballer.com and am working with dudes in an office someday,... I don't think the word "own" would apply. Again, while I know what you mean... kind of, I don't think the word "own"/"ownership" will ever really apply, and, thus, I don't think it is the right or even just mode to be thinking/considering things here in. This is MY baby. You are never going to "own", per se, any of it :-/ (other than to the degree that you own what I indicated earlier like your reports and teams and such). [smiley=shrug.gif]

Quote:

Jeff, you are assuming way more of a plan than is the case, brother. My PLAN this year (and pretty much for every year henceforth) was (is) to pull the magazine off... out of a hat,... which you were/are ALL well apprised of. CraigsList.com led to StegsList.com all in about a week. I had thought of it about a month prior, but decided to act on it in about a week, pretty much EVERY WAKING HOUR of which I spent WORKING on it. Steve/DirkDiggler can tell you the story. I had happened to speak with him when I first came up with the idea (again, about a month prior to opening shop). He thought it was a great (and timely) idea. The Co-commissioner services literally was an overnight brainstorm. BUT, these were BOTH back-up plans to the failed one of the magazine. And, in any event, what's to "discuss" with such things? These are businessy decisions I've pretty much got to make. All you really could have done was dissuade me from doing it for a fee, in which case I wouldn't have done it, in which case it wouldn't exist and would be another thing I'd be a(nother) "year behind on". Now, mind you, this is perhaps the area you are meaning to indicate when you say "own" or "ownership". I get that. But, man, there just aren't enough hours of the day for me to express (in speech, no less in writing) ALL the things I want to do and pursue here. Bottom line, until we are in a conference room in the FantasyFootballer.com offices hashing this out over a table, so to speak (or at least discussing things qua business during official business conference calls), "ownership" in this way just ain't gonna be happenin'. ON THE OTHER HAND, if you have an idea or dream that you have the wherewithal, i.e. technical know-how/fundage, to make a reality, by all means, let's talk. That IS an avenue of "ownership", so to speak.

on 10/23/06 at 00:18:39, BarnabyWilde wrote:

But, since you brought it up, yes, I was pissed about getting the 5th pick in the GBRFL2 draft for the 3rd year in a row, which is why I have boycotted all the weekly posts Between the 20s. There are other things too, which I do not care to discuss here.

But, Jim, you are misplacing your anger, brother. If you think for even a second that I rigged the lottery, you've got me WAY WRONG. That is NOT my style. If anything, yous should know that. I may cuss my ass off, but I play by the rules... to an extremely and excrutiatingly neurotic and anally-retentive degree (I count EVERY stroke and penalty on the golf course; my best score EVER, a 99, my second best, a 110+; it is what it is). The luck of the draw is the luck of the draw. Be mad at Lady [smiley=hooters.gif] Luck, NOT me, bro,... please.

Title: Re: How do you know you're in a deeeeeeeep keeper
Post by steelkings on Oct 23^rd, 2006, 7:07am

Quote:

I can behave myself, mommy.

This has gone on long enough! Steg has appointed me Mom. [smiley=simpmarge.gif](No, I'm not sleeping with you)

Now I want all you little bitches to go cut me a switch and I'll fix this little mess right now. [smiley=waitinforu.gif]

GO DAMMIT! [smiley=scared.gif]

Title: Re: How do you know you're in a deeeeeeeep keeper
Post by captainpurple on Oct 23^rd, 2006, 12:55pm

on 10/23/06 at 07:07:32, steelkings wrote:

Well, that certainly cures any Edipous complex I might have had! ;D

Title: Re: How do you know you're in a deeeeeeeep keeper
Post by Philly on Oct 23^rd, 2006, 1:17pm

First off... let me address the fact that this discussion is taking place on the boards here instead of PMs. I complained about something similar when Steg and The Dog were going at it, but that was on a much more public thread (i.e., a team report page in the Red Zone). This one is buried on a somewhat more private board. I apologize, sk, that you're being subjected to it, but these are some issues that probably need to be hashed out between some of us long-timers here.

on 10/23/06 at 02:52:55, StegRock wrote:

I'm not exactly sure what you're getting at here... Anyway, the unfortunate thing is that your divulging affected my image of you. That is a part of your character that you chose to share with others. Of course it affected my impression. It's part of who you are. As far as cutting you some slack -- I don't think I've mentioned it since we worked through it initially. My goodness, it's not like I bring it up whenever we disagree on something fundamentally. I didn't even bring it up in this go-round. I think I've cut you plenty of slack on it. But that doesn't mean I can just erase the fact that it happened... Like I said, it rarely even crosses my mind when I'm thinking of the old Stegger.

Quote:

Since we're not hashing things out over a table in a boardroom, or even having an occasional conference call... maybe you could take a few minutes to list an idea now and then in the Official's Locker Room area. I don't think I would have tried to dissuade you from doing anything. Might I have raised a question or two? Of course. Might I have had a brainstorm that would have made either/both ideas even better? Who knows? But I was in the dark with both of them (even if they were last-minute types of things). I know another (busy fantasy) website tried a Co-commissioner type of idea a couple years ago. I know it failed. I don't know why it failed -- but I might have (or someone else might have) been able to get some answers.

Quote:

ON THE OTHER HAND, if you have an idea or dream that you have the wherewithal, i.e. technical know-how/fundage, to make a reality, by all means, let's talk. That IS an avenue of "ownership", so to speak.

That's why there needs to be some more discussion. You may have an idea for something that one of us might have some wherewithal/technology/funding that we're not even considering because we're not thinking in the same directions.

When it all gets down to it, I have a very good relationship with everyone here on this site. Of course there are some people I would consider friends, some more like acquaintances, and some I don't consider much at all. And, aside from a couple times I've locked horns with Jim (all of which were resolved fairly quickly), you're the only one with whom things keep getting "rocky." I'm just trying to lay my cards on the table and address it rather than let it fester. Don't look at this as an attack on you. I'm trying to be as forthright (and civil) as possible. When I look at my post in the Experts League thread last night (a sincere attempt to show that I'm willing to work on things here), I see your response and I'm confused again? I'm not sure why you're taking that tack. Sure, it may seem insignificant and I'm guessing there was some attempt at humor there from you, but why respond that way, if at all?

Title: Re: How do you know you're in a deeeeeeeep keeper
Post by MordecaiCourage on Oct 23^rd, 2006, 3:50pm

on 10/21/06 at 21:06:51, MordecaiCourage wrote:

35 Posts and climbing!!!!! This is truly amazing...let's try to get it to 100. Wouldn't that be swell! ::)

56th post and climbing...well on our way to 100!

Title: Re: How do you know you're in a deeeeeeeep keeper
Post by StegRock on Oct 23^rd, 2006, 6:30pm

on 10/23/06 at 13:17:26, Philly wrote:

AMEN to that!!! [smiley=yes.gif]

Quote:

It is just that you said something in D.C. to me, which, mind you, I have NO PROBLEM with, Jeff, (I'm cool... [smiley=thumbsup.gif]),... but which bothers that part of me that seeks "consistency" in people... in light of your judgment of me on that girlie story. I guess you are not remembering what you told me (which I will NOT bring up in public). In any event, it is not at all really consistent with your judgment of "my character" given that story of mine.

Quote:

I think you're "getting" me here to a large extent, but maybe not completely. I'm not looking for ownership in a real, tangible, business sense. When I talk about "ownership", I'm referring to more of a need to feel like a "valued employee" or something of the sort. It's more of an abstract ownership than a "I want 15% of the company stock" or anything like that. Like I said, I don't need a public "thank you" when I do something you like. Just like I don't need a public "dressing down" when you disagree with me. I just want to feel more a part of this place--a feeling I'm not getting.

Since we're not hashing things out over a table in a boardroom, or even having an occasional conference call... maybe you could take a few minutes to list an idea now and then in the Official's Locker Room area. I don't think I would have tried to dissuade you from doing anything. Might I have raised a question or two? Of course. Might I have had a brainstorm that would have made either/both ideas even better? Who knows? But I was in the dark with both of them (even if they were last-minute types of things). I know another (busy fantasy) website tried a Co-commissioner type of idea a couple years ago. I know it failed. I don't know why it failed -- but I might have (or someone else might have) been able to get some answers.

That's why there needs to be some more discussion. You may have an idea for something that one of us might have some wherewithal/technology/funding that we're not even considering because we're not thinking in the same directions.

Jeff, I just don't think we're there yet. I think you are speaking in the ideal in one sense, and also, in another sense, maybe hearkening back to the good old days when I had oodles of time on my hands and was calling you and Jim on a regular basis. So, in one sense, we aren't there yet, and in another, those days are gone. Furthermore, though, when I am off-put by some suggestions (that include a lecture on my admin control panel), I am not "encouraged" to explain things. Also, and I am willing to concede that this may be a function of our not talking [smiley=phone.gif] frequently like we used to, many of the things being asked of me/being brought up matter-of-factly imply that I am not doing/trying the best I can and, well, some of them just aren't doable whether from a technical or financial perspective. So, in those latter cases, it's not that I don't want to do them. I can't, and, yet, as the place grows and time goes by, the work piles up. So, given the former of the aforementioned, I get frustrated. And, as you can see how I've tied it together here, we have a real knot. (Warning: the following sentence is a looooong, run-on sentence, expressing just about the whole story of whence I am coming!) I'm busting my ass off, being prevented from making the big stride of the magazine, which you all DO know basically all about, and yet I got a dude with an idea here and an idea there, who, because he isn't in my head and I am no longer speaking with him on a regular basis, (unwittingly, granted) is making suggestions that have little to no chance of happening and, furthermore. imply, at least, that I haven't considered such things, all of which he would know if we spoke [smiley=phone.gif], and sometimes come with condescending lectures (about the very program I've been working with for over four years now), and all the time the work continues to increase and, yet, I seem to be the only one taking care of the day-to-day mundane tasks of, for example, updating the team report threads up in "the Red Zone" while some of these "idea guys", who get on my case for responding tersely and negatively, a function more of circumstances than anything, aren't even posting their "Red Zone PRIMED Players for the Week", which could readily be done in the time that another idea is presented to me. :P It's frustrating, Jeff, and a bit helpless. I don't have time to "lend an ear" to every idea, at least not in writing. So, I have to give pithy responses, which usually, because of circumstances, are negative, a negativity that gets exacerbated by the necessary pithiness of the (written) response. And, mind you, AS I HAVE ALREADY STATED, your suggestions sometimes do have a behind-the-scenes impact like how your suggestion about "search-engine optimization" led me to add "meta-keywords" to the pages. But, I don't necessarily have time to announce all this stuff. SO, AGAIN, YOU ARE MAKING A DIFFERENCE EVEN IF YOU DON'T KNOW IT. Just get off my jock. I am up to my eyeballs in WORK (both here and as regards the culmination of my Master's). I just canNOT give a "detailed" response in writing, explaining why or why not or to what degree I can or cannot implement said suggestion thrown at me,... moreover, when I got to get my "Red Zone PRIMED Players" up, and, furthermore, just as a function of the circumstances, the response is likely to be, unfortunately, in the negative. So, again, the responses are likely to be terse and negative. I'm sorry. That's where we are in this venture. That's what I got time for. However, you got my numbers. You have a brainstorm, give me a call. [smiley=phone.gif] You want to stay more in the Steggie loop, give ME a call. Don't always put the ONUS on me, for Christ's sake.

In any event, though, you all have "worlds" here in which you exert almost exclusive influence: your reports, for example, and participating in "the Red Zone" and "between the 20's" stuff. While I am unable to be in touch with yous on a very regular basis, I am looking for yous to be patient during this time and hone your skills on those projects and help me get the basics, like "the Red Zone" threads, taken care of, at least, before throwing yet another steak on my ALREADY FULL, and getting FULLER, plate.

And, bottom, bottom line, I surely reserve, nay, have the right to creatively do whatever I want whenever I want without running it by the "board". Look, I'm a realist. You can say that maybe if I run this idea or that idea by others maybe I'll find people with the wherewithal, technical, financial or otherwise, to make it happen. [smiley=pullleeeeeeeze.gif] Come on, Jeff! That's just a bit tendentious. I know what came out of our regular conversations [smiley=phone.gif] in the past. Mainly, you and Jim were apprised of what I was "up to" and the general direction I was going in. And, while that is, of course, EXTREMELY important, it was never overly substantive. I basically did my thing. You guys just, in some cases, perhaps knew a little beforehand. To make this more concrete, it's not like there was anything anyone could do to help me with "Steg's List" or the "Co-commissioner Services", which are really the only TWO ideas I had this past summer. Again, my "springing stuff on yous" is more a function of our not speaking [smiley=phone.gif] anymore lately than anything else. No big differences are going to come about THAT CAN'T BE MANIFESTED LATER by making me explain myself or open suggestion boxes (more work) before "doing the NECESSARY work, which is all I have time for" and, well, "getting the job done".

Yes, more discussion would be nice... I've already stated that. In fact, that's why the "BIGGER PICTURE" is being missed by you (and Jim) anymore. Bottom line, though, we're just not there/no longer there for the time being,... and, in any event, it's not like my phone is ringing of the hook with phone calls from you guys. :-/ There are just not enough hours in the day to be discussing ALL this stuff in writing on a message board. As I said, Steve Warner and I happened to speak [smiley=phone.gif] around the time I came up with the "StegsList.com" idea, so he became a sounding board. You want to encourage "discussion", don't (always) lay it at my doorstep. I don't bite. You guys know that. My bark is worse than my bite. Take the initiative and give me a call. [smiley=phone.gif]

And, please, in light of all this, understand why I have been and have had to be terse and negative in my responses. It's a function of the circumstances more than anything. It's not personal toward you, outside of the fact that it gets under my skin to see an idea pretentiously laying at my doorstep, as if I hadn't thought of it (in some cases where I EXPLICITLY have), perhaps with an accompanying lecture while I notice that same person hasn't posted their "Red Zone PRIMED Players and Mirages". The BEST thing if you want to avoid these terse and negative responses is TO PICK UP THE PHONE [smiley=phone.gif] and run them by me and, more importantly, plug [smiley=plug.gif] yourselves back into the "bigger picture" that, as things grow bigger and bigger here, I don't have time to be explaining away in writing. What could be accomplished in a 5-minute phone [smiley=phone.gif] conversation can take HOURS to hash out in writing. Look NO further than at this VERY thread. :-/

Quote:

...you're the only one with whom things keep getting "rocky." ... When I look at my post in the Experts League thread last night (a sincere attempt to show that I'm willing to work on things here), I see your response and I'm confused again? I'm not sure why you're taking that tack. Sure, it may seem insignificant and I'm guessing there was some attempt at humor there from you, but why respond that way, if at all?

Jeff,... frankly speaking,... bro,... there is just a clash in personalities. That was just me being me,... and,... no,... I'm not going to change for you... or anybody. I'm "all good", so to speak. I meant that "You fucker... ;)" in the BEST of ways. In fact, metaphorically, it's like I'm patting you on the back. The fact that you are so "sensitive" means, in all honesty (and this is kind of good in a "general" way, but bad in a more "specific" way), you don't really get me/our personalities clash. I mean... I mean something "nice", and you take it as something "bad". This is... not good,... moreover,... that you haven't figured out and/or accepted that that is the way I communicate... and even warm up to people. And, that's me,... and I'm not changing. And, I'm not asking you to change your "way", either. But, you've got to understand and accept me for me just like I understand and accept you for you (put another way, figuratively, just like I accept your "girlie" stories, so to speak, you've got to accept mine... (you follow how I am tying that in and actually find it quite fundamental, at least metaphorically, now?)). [smiley=shrug.gif]

Title: Re: How do you know you're in a deeeeeeeep keeper
Post by steelkings on Oct 24^th, 2006, 6:44am

Quote:

I mean I didn't care what you divulged to me. Doesn't affect my impression of you one bit...

Quote:

And, I'm not asking you to change your "way", either. But, you've got to understand and accept me for me just like I understand and accept you for you (put another way, figuratively, just like I accept your "girlie" stories, so to speak, you've got to accept mine...

Lucy, You have some splaining to do! [smiley=rollinwithlaughter.gif] [smiley=rollinwithlaughter.gif]
[smiley=rollinwithlaughter.gif]

Title: Re: How do you know you're in a deeeeeeeep keeper
Post by StegRock on Oct 24^th, 2006, 8:38am

on 10/23/06 at 18:30:34, StegRock wrote:

It's not personal toward you, outside of the fact that it gets under my skin to see an idea pretentiously laying at my doorstep, as if I hadn't thought of it (in some cases where I EXPLICITLY have), perhaps with an accompanying lecture while I notice that same person hasn't posted their "Red Zone PRIMED Players and Mirages".

Just to be ABSOLUTELY clear here, Jeff, fellas,... it's not that I really care so much about you guys' not getting these little bullshit tasks done. In and of themselves, they're REALLY not a biggie (to me), though I do believe it's all the little things that add up to one great foundation. I do believe that if we... I lose sight of the little things,... which is something I think about when I get a "big thing" suggestion but see that that person hasn't posted his "Red Zone PRIMED Players",... we're doomed. Anyway, it's just more that I wish yous would see the obvious "bigger picture", i.e. the one I don't necessarily need to explicate... I.e., if you can't even carve away time to do your weekly "Red Zone PRIMED Players and Mirages", then what boat do you think I, who am maintaining ALL the little shit to go with all the ever-increasing big shit, am in??? It's getting to be much. Just think it through... What if I "sprung on yous" another feature up in "the Red Zone" I wanted all yous to participate in, "Red Zone PRIMED Rookies", let's say. In a short (terse) and not necessarily sweet (negative) manner, yous (justifiably) would be like, "Steg,... [smiley=pullleeeeeeeze.gif] Enough already, bro!" Now, multiply your not being able to get around to posting your (measly) "Red Zone PRIMED Players" for the week along with my (ridiculously) throwing another little BS task/request at yous like the aforementioned hypothetical one I just made up a million times over, and you'll be where I am these days (except I am still getting around to all that little shit). ... I'm just asking you to appreciate that (the fact that if you can't even get around to the little things, what do you think it's like for the old Stegger?) when approaching me with some of these "suggestions", which, frankly speaking, are typically of a VERY "sweeeeeeping" nature and would require a significant amount of time and effort (or professional assistance, i.e. $$$). Moreover, I am asking you to be particularly sensitive to this during this time when we aren't talking [smiley=phone.gif] as much and you aren't "in my head" like yous used to be. Generally speaking, we are not in a "suggestion box", no less "boardroom meeting", era right now on "the Gridiron". We are in a "Steg has barely enough time to wipe his ass" and, lo and behold, "I don't have time to do my Red Zone PRIMED Players and Mirages for the week" era. [smiley=hellyeafunny.gif] I cut you slack with the latter. How about cuttin' me some slack... in general (for a while)? Please understand that suggestions about things I can't get done (but in some cases would like to) just adds to my (inner) frustration, especially when I look up to see an empty "Red Zone PRIMED Players" thread (which gives me outer frustration... and indicates that "a" "bigger picture" is being missed). Peace out! I've got to stop explaining myself and... GO TO BED,... a novel concept!!!
[smiley=yawn.gif] -> [smiley=sleepers.gif]

The big jerk asshole's out... [smiley=wavinbye.gif]

Title: Re: How do you know you're in a deeeeeeeep keeper
Post by MordecaiCourage on Oct 24^th, 2006, 12:07pm

on 10/24/06 at 08:38:07, StegRock wrote:

it's all the little things that add up to one great foundation. I do believe that if we... I lose sight of the little things,... which is something I think about when I get a "big thing" suggestion but see that that person hasn't posted his "Red Zone PRIMED Players",... we're doomed.

Gotta say I agree with ya' Steg on this. This was one of the "little things" that hooked me to this site in the first place...the participation of a "core" group of guys (and gal) chiming in with their thoughts in the Red Zone Primed Players thread. I saw names weekly like BW, Philly, Callie, Chumpzilla, WB, Tony O, CP, StegRock etc. etc. etc., calling it like they saw it. Now it seems as though that participation is shrinking a bit (to include my own participation) I have only participated in that about every other week here lately. I think we should get back to the business of "tending the store " if you will. Put differences aside...agree to disagree...give each other due respect and let's all try not to be so thin skinned. I suggest light-hearted dogging of each other and not so much name calling. Example: Calling Steg and A** Hole is a bit out of bounds and it appears he took it as such. Labeling him as a "fantasy football and philosophy geek" was light hearted. Steg seemed to take slight offense to that as well and that is where he should learn to chill a bit. It's give and take and don't sweat the small stuff gents! Listening to all this is like being at my firehouse and watching the young guns arguing about who didn't clean the compartments on one of the fire trucks! It's annoying and it's silly. You'd all be in my office explaining to me, not why you were arguing, but why as a team you could not accomplish the simplest of tasks? Bottom line: we all "live" here at the Gridiron. Take care of your house!! [smiley=fireman.gif]

Title: Re: How do you know you're in a deeeeeeeep keeper
Post by Philly on Oct 24^th, 2006, 2:46pm

on 10/24/06 at 12:07:24, MordecaiCourage wrote:

agree to disagree...

That quote's not going to win you any points. ;)

Quote:

...give each other due respect and let's all try not to be so thin skinned. I suggest light-hearted dogging of each other and not so much name calling. Example: Calling Steg and A** Hole is a bit out of bounds and it appears he took it as such. Labeling him as a "fantasy football and philosophy geek" was light hearted. Steg seemed to take slight offense to that as well and that is where he should learn to chill a bit.

I make a very concerted effort NOT to participate in name-calling--whether it's fantasy trash-talking or during a more serious disagreement (out of respect for the others' involved). It's been my modus operandi since the beginning here and it probably should have been noticed as I'm hardly an infrequent poster. But in return for that I get called "You f***er" (pure disrespect in mind, especially as a direct result of an attempt to mend fences) and now I'm supposed to just smile and go post my Fantasy Mirages? [smiley=pullleeeeeeeze.gif] I challenge anyone to find someone here (including Philosopher Kings) who puts more time and effort and thought (year round, mind you) into their fantasy team reports than yours truly. Yet I'm getting called to the carpet because I haven't participated in most of the RedZone Primed Players threads?

Listen, I appreciate your efforts at being the diplomat/arbitrator here Ken. My post isn't meant to be disrespectful to you. It's just that there's a great deal of frustration on the parts of some long-timers here that (hopefully) is being ironed out.

Title: Re: How do you know you're in a deeeeeeeep keeper
Post by MordecaiCourage on Oct 24^th, 2006, 3:07pm

on 10/24/06 at 14:46:28, Philly wrote:

Listen, I appreciate your efforts at being the diplomat/arbitrator here Ken. My post isn't meant to be disrespectful to you. It's just that there's a great deal of frustration on the parts of some long-timers here that (hopefully) is being ironed out.

I hear you Philly, no disrespect taken...... I'm sure you'll keep in mind that frustrations probably run on both sides of the fence here and that, while being called a f****r isn't right, the higher road is sometimes the better road to take. Don't ruin something you seemingly enjoy doing over some frustrating issues. You guy's fantasy insights [smiley=yinandyang.gif] are two huge reasons why I, and I'm sure others, stuck around on the Gridiron in the first place. Cooler heads prevail.
[smiley=fireman.gif]

Title: Re: How do you know you're in a deeeeeeeep keeper
Post by Tony_O on Oct 24^th, 2006, 3:39pm

That's it Dammit! I will have my Primed players of the week up for Week #8. Thanks for the reminder MC! I have "Fans" that have been missing my superior knowledge and Fantasy insights! Back to the Basics!!! [smiley=bow.gif] [smiley=gladiator.gif] [smiley=money.gif] [smiley=loudnclear.gif] [smiley=bullseye.gif] [smiley=pumped.gif] [smiley=wizard.gif]

Title: Re: How do you know you're in a deeeeeeeep keeper
Post by StegRock on Oct 25^th, 2006, 5:47am

on 10/24/06 at 14:46:28, Philly wrote:

But in return for that I get called "You f***er" (pure disrespect in mind, especially as a direct result of an attempt to mend fences)...

Look, I'm sorry, Jeff, for posting, and let's get this exactly right,...

on 10/23/06 at 02:56:20, StegRock wrote:

(Message Icon = :D)

You fucker... ;) ... ;D Thanks!

... BUT, apology aside, substantively speaking, the fact that you can't handle MY form of bonding and expression doesn't bode well for our future "working" relationship. We've made great strides on this thread, in fact, as you've pointed out, but one of those "strides" is a realization that our personalities evidently clash. Now, being an optimist, I'm willing to chalk some of it up to our not talking much anymore... because I've been "lude", to say the least, from day one. You used to poke fun at me about it... in a, to use MC's terminology, "light" way back in the day... that I took very well (i.e., I typically used to accept and even get a laugh out of your "mommy" comments). Bottom line,... again,... as far as substance is concerned, not rhetoric and moral high-horseness, for you to take what I consider to be bonding and acceptance of your olive branch (choice of expression aside) as "pure disrespect" "especially as a direct result of an attempt to mend fences" is about as pointed of a clash in personalities as you'll get. Of all we've discussed, this seems irreconciliable. The fact that we know that is a good thing, but it itself is not. Of course, I can... and will try my best to note this and start treating you with kid gloves (relative "to me", that is),... but, again, that ain't no good in the "bigger picture" of our potential "working relationship", either. That's not a "real" solution. It's a band-aid.

BUT, PLEASE, do not read anything totally doomsday here. As Jamo could tell you (because I've happened to mention it to him), once this thing starts rolling into a business, YOU, JEFF, are my first priority. NONE of this changes that bottom line. Expressing myself how I do aside,... I am a man of my word (however it is expressed), honor and character. What you have done for the site and me does not get lost amidst this bullshit.

on 10/24/06 at 12:07:24, MordecaiCourage wrote:

Labeling him as a "fantasy football and philosophy geek" was light hearted. Steg seemed to take slight offense to that as well and that is where he should learn to chill a bit.

God... ::) You guys really do have a hard time getting me (right). Yes, I have my beef with the geek label as it applies to fantasy football (because I think it is somewhat out of place, yet, for some unknown reason, to me at least, some people seem to revel in it) (but not as it applies to philosophy because, there are no two ways about it, a good portion, if not a vast majority, of my philosophy colleagues are geeks), BUT there was definitely a playful sense to my comments. Did you not see the smilies I wound my message to Jamo up with???

...

Regarding the last two posts, I almost get the feeling that this stuff is being mentioned for tendential purposes (even if unwittingly). It's hard for me to think that Ken didn't know I was quite playful in my response to Jamo. As such, I almost get the feeling that bringing that up was an indirect way to mitigate the scolding of sorts of Jim for, in a mean-spirited way, calling me asshole (and big jerk) by also pointing to an impropriety of mine. Why can't someone just get my back full-heartedly, i.e. without including a critique of me (to perhaps mitigate the fact that my back is the one being gotten)? Is it that bad of thing to be (seen as) getting Steg's back anymore? Again, I just wonder.

In a similar vein, I feel like this "You fucker... ;)" comment is being held over my head. It somehow (perhaps, unwittingly, and I can only guess this is a hill Jeff finds worth dying on) mitigates what's "happened" to me on this thread, namely, as someone who I spoke with on the phone about this said, that I am really being inappropriately and disrespectfully put through the ringer here. Point being, Jeff's insistence on bringing this up comes off (to me) like Steg said that to me so why can't he be called an asshole and a big jerk... because, after all, it ain't me who called him that? If he can call me a fucker, we can call him an asshole and a big jerk. Of course, that totally misses the point about context and, thus, comes off as tendentious. I called Jeff what I called Jeff as a term of endearment (the fact that our personalities clash doesn't change that), whereas, I was called what I was called maliciously, to a degree at least. Again, I'm not saying that you are doing this purposefully, Jeff. But, it is the effect as I see it and feel it.

on 10/23/06 at 00:18:39, BarnabyWilde wrote:

Last, and I'm sorry to have suck Jim back into this whole thing as he's bowed out, but I have to respond to this... because I do take exception to it. Jim, you made it a point to explicitly speculate that I put Jamo up to defend me, which isn't a problem in and of itself, BUT, since you did so, makes your words very tendentious since the guy you are thanking for coming to your aid is a personal friend of yours, moreover, one who has, though become a solid member of the site, not had the best relationship with me, notably telling me that he'd have me eating my teeth, and (I hate to bring this up, but I gotta) went out of his way to, as it turns out, erroneously or at least questionably, praise Jeff for not throwing his being right about Mike Bell in my face. So, Tony, where are my kudos for REALLY not throwing it back in Jeff's face, not even uttering a word about it, even though at the end of the day, when it matters, all that bullshit aside, I ended up being right about Mike Bell? But, I didn't and had NO intention to throw it in his face. I digress... Again, is it this en vogue to stomp on my head whenever the chance can be had, even if it might be questionable or even erroneous, but so out of vogue to get my back or throw a little love my way, even when it's clear-cut? (Mind you, I understand, Tony, that you probably haven't even given this a second thought, which isn't a problem in and of itself. But, when you did give it a thought, I was the one pooped on.) In any event, the degree to which Jamo might have been my henchman, Tony, in a sense, surely was yours. Jamo and I have never met, and, mind you, as yous know, Jamo and I have gone at it (over Jimmy C.), but "worked" through it. But, moreover, as yous know, Jamo takes care of the league spreadsheet for me for you guys. I mean I still have to deal with the raw stats, but he does the scoring sheet (the much bigger task). Point is, because of this "behind the scenes" "work" that he does for me, I think,... nay,... know that he has a deep and very tangible appreciation of what I do (behind the scenes and, thus, more so "overall"), and that appreciation is going to increase as he's just taken another burden off my shoulders. Jamo is now also going to be responsible for updating the web pages, the "Results" and "Standings" pages, after doing the spreadsheet. This is also a time-consumer,... and all this stuff is behind the scenes. I bring this up generally in light of the discussion on this thread about my lack of receptivity to new ideas and suggestions vis-a-vis the work "needing" to be done. Guys, in all honesty, and Jamo's training in it will be ongoing for probably quite some time, but JUST breaking gnarly multi-team ties in the standings can take upwards of 30 to 45 minutes and in some extreme cases it has taken an hour, and that's just you all's league. I also have to do my league's. And, while Jamo will be doing all this stuff, I will probably still have to deal with this aspect for quite some time until he gets a reasonable hang of it. The point, though, is, forget about all the "front-end" stuff, the reports, "the Red Zone" and "between the 20's" stuff, and so on and so forth, I'm talking about spending, on average, about 30 minutes a week working pen-to-paper on tie-breaks in the standings of the GBRFLeagues. Friggin' yikes! And,... the MAIN point here,... Jamo is acquiring an ever-greater appreciation of all that, moreover, by way of helping me get the job done, and why can't that be seen as the inspiration of his getting my back, and whatever other speculation that might go to mitigate that be put aside? Again, is it that cool to discredit me?

on 10/24/06 at 15:39:40, Tony_O wrote:

Lookin' forward to it, Toner... [smiley=yes.gif] ... [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Title: Re: How do you know you're in a deeeeeeeep keeper
Post by steelkings on Oct 25^th, 2006, 8:30am

Quote:

Posted by: steelkings Posted on: Oct 22nd, 2006, 7:45pm
You guys shouldnt be doing this here on the public board. Thats what PM's are for. Your embarrassing each other and getting nothing accomplished in the process. The three of you have been around too long to be throwing stones at each other in front of everyone.

Move on!

Just my two cents

Quote:

Posted by: Philly Posted on: Oct 23rd, 2006, 12:17pm
First off... let me address the fact that this discussion is taking place on the boards here instead of PMs. I complained about something similar when Steg and The Dog were going at it, but that was on a much more public thread (i.e., a team report page in the Red Zone). This one is buried on a somewhat more private board. I apologize, sk, that you're being subjected to it, but these are some issues that probably need to be hashed out between some of us long-timers here.

Quote:

Posted by: StegRock Posted on: Oct 23rd, 2006, 5:30pm
on Oct 23rd, 2006, 12:17pm, Philly wrote:First off... let me address the fact that this discussion is taking place on the boards here instead of PMs. I complained about something similar when Steg and The Dog were going at it, but that was on a much more public thread (i.e., a team report page in the Red Zone). This one is buried on a somewhat more private board. I apologize, sk, that you're being subjected to it, but these are some issues that probably need to be hashed out between some of us long-timers here.

AMEN to that!!!

[smiley=howtoput.gif]

That's a nice fence you guy's are building. Lovely. Is it a dog ear or picket fence? Make sure you use the proper framework with it. That way it never falls down. I'm glad its a two sided fence though. It seems alot stronger when the slats are installed on both sides. And, For a couple of guys that complain that they dont have much spare time, it's amazing what youve accomplished.

CONGRATULATIONS

[smiley=drown.gif] [smiley=inthebox.gif] [smiley=vice.gif] [smiley=whatever.gif]

Yours always
MOM

Title: Re: How do you know you're in a deeeeeeeep keeper
Post by StegRock on Oct 26^th, 2006, 3:48am

sk,... :-/

"The unexamined life is not worth living, and the unlived life is not worth examining." [smiley=zenmaster.gif]

I love the way "bygones be bygones" folks so often don't let "bygones be bygones".

And, please, how about putting the effort you are putting into playing mommy here into figuring out how to use the "quote" function right, man? That would be much more productive. I would guess that twenty minutes of some patient practice and "paying attention" would probably have you using it like a wiz. [smiley=yes.gif] That would be a worthwhile effort. Telling us how to comport ourselves really isn't. [smiley=no.gif]

Title: Re: How do you know you're in a deeeeeeeep keeper
Post by steelkings on Oct 26^th, 2006, 7:04am

on 10/26/06 at 03:48:08, StegRock wrote:

Love the way you enjoy pointing out others shortcomings as a defense mechanism. Its the pedomorphic part about you I get. :-/

BTW: Youve been quoted like a champ. Now swollow one of these

http://www.stampedeblue.com/images/admin/Chill_Pill.png

Title: Re: How do you know you're in a deeeeeeeep keeper
Post by MordecaiCourage on Oct 26^th, 2006, 1:26pm

on 10/26/06 at 07:04:58, steelkings wrote:

pedomorphic

Wow...sk!!! Great word [smiley=thumbsup.gif]...... of course, I had to look it up to see if it meant what I thought it meant. (It does) ;) I'm gonna use it on one of my "aforementioned" crybaby rookies at the FD [smiley=fireman.gif], giving you "full credit" of course. Now, let me sit back, pop some corn [smiley=popcorn.gif], and observe the fallout that's most definately and deservedly gonna come from your rebuttal to the Stegger.
[smiley=arguing.gif]

Note to all tuned in ears: I really am not enjoying this as much as I appear to be.... I'm just doing my part to see this thread reach 100 posts!!

Title: Re: How do you know you're in a deeeeeeeep keeper
Post by Tony_O on Oct 26^th, 2006, 4:57pm

on 10/26/06 at 13:26:00, MordecaiCourage wrote:

Now, let me sit back, pop some corn [smiley=popcorn.gif], and observe the fallout that's most definately and deservedly gonna come from your rebuttal to the Stegger.
[smiley=arguing.gif]

Note to all tuned in ears: I really am not enjoying this as much as I appear to be.... I'm just doing my part to see this thread reach 100 posts!!

Your Bad!!! [smiley=demon.gif] [smiley=evil.gif] [smiley=fireman.gif] But here is another post! ;D

Title: Re: How do you know you're in a deeeeeeeep keeper
Post by MordecaiCourage on Oct 26^th, 2006, 5:30pm

on 10/26/06 at 16:57:40, Tony_O wrote:

Your Bad!!! [smiley=demon.gif] [smiley=evil.gif] [smiley=fireman.gif] But here is another post! ;D

;D I'm not just bad Tony.....I'm rotten!!! [smiley=Freddie.gif] To quote one of those aforementioned crybaby fireman rookies of mine who always seem to find a way to make the simplest of situations into a day long or week long ordeal......."That's how I roll"
;)

Title: Re: How do you know you're in a deeeeeeeep keeper
Post by StegRock on Oct 26^th, 2006, 7:04pm

on 10/26/06 at 07:04:58, steelkings wrote:

Love the way you enjoy pointing out others shortcomings as a defense mechanism.

What-ever... [smiley=pullleeeeeeeze.gif] That's just ad hominem, ad hoc clueless bullshit... on SO MANY levels... it doesn't even merit a response. I'll say this much... Backatchya, Toddo... And, believe it or not, given the "logic" (VERY loosely used) of your spiel, just that suffices as a very coherent and cogent comeback.

Quote:

Its the pedomorphic part about you I get. :-/

More ad hominem bullshit from the masta [smiley=jammaster.gif] of ad hominem bullhit... Anyway, MC,... you had more luck than me looking it up, at first at least. I could guess the meaning, "childish", which, I guess in some respect Todd was trying to be respectful to me by not using that word and couching it in a big word. That is duly noted and appreciated. But, it would have helped to spell it correctly... It's "paedomorphic". It would have saved me a number of minutes of diving into three dictionaries looking for it.

...

I digress... Honestly, Jeff's shit's real. So is Jim's, though, unfortunately, he doesn't often take/have the time to really tease his thoughts and feelings out. Productive, even if not always positive, things and realizations usually come out of Jeff's and my tussles and sometimes come out of Jim's and mine when he does have the rare opportunity to take the time to tease it out. I find that very little comes out of these things with Todd. He's just "bobbing and weaving". [smiley=boxer.gif] The problem with that is he mixes in serious, critical comments with his overall playfulness and "committed lack of seriousness", which can lead to some real knock-out punches that pack a ton of potential hurt feelings (because the stuff's not backed up or argued; an attempt isn't even made; it's just slung like mud), which is what we are both doing at this point. But, hey, I can play both games... really well.

Quote:

Youve been quoted like a champ.

[smiley=clap.gif]

Now swAllow one of these...

[smiley=dick.jpg]

...

Let me wind up one more time... Boy, mommy sure hath changed colors... Again, given your "circularity",... the irony,... don't you need a mommy now??? Watch out... When you try to have your cake and eat it too, you'll end up biting your tongue... by not biting your tongue.

Title: Re: How do you know you're in a deeeeeeeep keeper
Post by MordecaiCourage on Oct 26^th, 2006, 9:08pm

[smiley=popcorn.gif]

Title: Re: How do you know you're in a deeeeeeeep keeper
Post by StegRock on Oct 26^th, 2006, 10:07pm

Have an ice cream with that, MC... [smiley=letsmakeup.gif] ... :D

Title: Re: How do you know you're in a deeeeeeeep keeper
Post by Philly on Oct 26^th, 2006, 10:21pm

I thoroughly enjoyed the vocabulary lesson for the day. That's a word I'll have to hang onto and be sure to recycle at some point (not necessarily here, though).

....

For what it's worth, pedomorphic is an accepted variant of paedomorphic.

Code:

pedomorphic. Dictionary.com. Merriam-Webster's Medical Dictionary, Merriam-Webster, Inc. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/pedomorphic (accessed: October 26, 2006).

Title: Re: How do you know you're in a deeeeeeeep keeper
Post by PrimeTime on Oct 26^th, 2006, 10:22pm

Just thought I would help you all out.

ped·o·mor·phism (pd-môrfzm, pd-)
n.Retention of juvenile characteristics in the adult, occurring in mammals

pae·do·mor·pho·sis or pe·do·mor·pho·sis (pd-môrf-ss)
n. pl. pae·do·mor·pho·ses (-sz)
Phylogenetic change in which juvenile characteristics are retained in the adult form of an organism.

Title: Re: How do you know you're in a deeeeeeeep keeper
Post by StegRock on Oct 26^th, 2006, 10:51pm

Well, the former wasn't in any of the three dictionaries I consulted, including the on-line Merriam-Webster one... [smiley=idontknow.gif] Oh, well... Again, on the one hand, it was nicer than saying "childish",... but it still wasn't nice nor appreciated. :-/

Title: Re: How do you know you're in a deeeeeeeep keeper
Post by PrimeTime on Oct 26^th, 2006, 11:04pm

on 10/26/06 at 22:51:06, StegRock wrote:

Again, on the one hand, it was nicer than saying "childish",... but it still wasn't nice nor appreciated. :-/

I agree - it was not nice ! [smiley=yes.gif] [smiley=steg.gif]

Title: Re: How do you know you're in a deeeeeeeep keeper
Post by StegRock on Oct 26^th, 2006, 11:10pm

Let me clarify... because A LOT of what is said here, including by yours truly, :-/ isn't "nice",... it is that that was "inappropriate" and "ad hominem", [smiley=no.gif] not just not nice.

Title: Re: How do you know you're in a deeeeeeeep keeper
Post by MordecaiCourage on Oct 27^th, 2006, 2:08am

on 10/23/06 at 15:50:37, MordecaiCourage wrote:

56th post and climbing...well on our way to 100!

OK folks we've reached # 79 in this thread and it looks as though it's fading...may not reach the 100 I've so looked forward to!!! So...to ensure that we reach 100 I'm gonna have to say something really nasty to you Big Jerks!!! Yeah that's right, you're all Big Fat Honkin' Jerks . And I mean it [smiley=assinface.gif]

Title: Re: How do you know you're in a deeeeeeeep keeper
Post by steelkings on Oct 27^th, 2006, 7:59am

on 10/27/06 at 02:08:45, MordecaiCourage wrote:

Ya mean like this!
http://www.mtv.com/shared/media/news/images/p/Powers_Austin/sq-fat-bastard-goldmember-newl.jpg

If my use of the word pedomorphic (paedomorphic)was inappropriate, then many apologies to you "f***ers. Now off I go to swallow a................

Title: Re: How do you know you're in a deeeeeeeep keeper
Post by Philly on Oct 27^th, 2006, 9:49am

on 10/27/06 at 02:08:45, MordecaiCourage wrote:

OK folks we've reached # 79 in this thread and it looks as though it's fading...may not reach the 100 I've so looked forward to!!!

I was going to lock the thread once we reached #99 anyway. [smiley=hellyeafunny.gif]

Title: Re: How do you know you're in a deeeeeeeep keeper
Post by The_Dog on Oct 27^th, 2006, 6:06pm

........

Title: Re: How do you know you're in a deeeeeeeep keeper
Post by Tony_O on Oct 28^th, 2006, 3:20am

I just had to get to this.............sorry it is in an untimely matter.........

on 10/25/06 at 05:47:39, StegRock wrote:

since the guy you are thanking for coming to your aid is a personal friend of yours,

Let us look at my first mesage on this thread.....

on 10/18/06 at 18:50:08, Tony_O wrote:

Ouch......that one hurt my feelings [smiley=lickmyass.gif] [smiley=crybaby.gif] [smiley=duel.gif] [smiley=flipoffangrily.gif] [smiley=arguing.gif]

Now obviously if someone was reading each message they would know that I was laughing at what you said to Jim about his whinning. Not in the least sticking up for him. My smiles are meant to show him saying kiss my ass and you saying he is whinning, then you guys arguing, a token Jim smiley, and then you guys arguing.

The first part of my next post was in response to Walker _Boh's post adressed to Jim complaining about what Jim said about you while inessence saying the same thing about Jim. Basically, he was being a hypocrite.

Here is Walker's message:

on 10/22/06 at 22:34:09, Walker Boh wrote:

here is my rsponse to his...

on 10/22/06 at 23:23:02, Tony_O wrote:

I just thought he should have taken his own advice. He could have stuck up for you without dogging Jim, but perhaps this had to do with their other baseball issuses.

The second part of the message, I think is sticking up for the Jim, Jeff, and Steve. I was saying that all of you were sharing your feelings but maybe some frustration had caused a bit of miscommunication.

on 10/22/06 at 23:23:02, Tony_O wrote:

I think all of the original parties, including Steve, said the things they were FEELING, but might have chosen the wrong time, place, and may have used some misplaced words. I for one have noticed that Steve seems to have been using curse words more frequently(which I wouldn't consider growth), however considering the latest events on his island, these words might have been formed out of the frustration in his mind and not from his heart and soul. That same situation(not the earthquake) probably goes for Jim too. That is my take. Although, it is probably not going to be recieved because unfortunately it seems like Steve would not consider me, someone with the position, standing, or intelligence to enlighten him.

so to say that I was "getting Jim's Back" because I was his friend just seems to be a convinent tool for your response. I don't think I stood up for anyone of you any different.

on 10/25/06 at 05:47:39, StegRock wrote:

moreover, one who has, though become a solid member of the site, not had the best relationship with me, notably telling me that he'd have me eating my teeth,

Man Steve, the tread on this is starting to wear pretty thin. You always seem to want to bring this up when you want to make me seem unauthoritive or unimpotant. It must be that elephant brain of yours. I sure wasn't thinking of those thoughts when I donated to the site. But, I see how you truly SEE me.

on 10/25/06 at 05:47:39, StegRock wrote:

and (I hate to bring this up, but I gotta) went out of his way to, as it turns out, erroneously or at least questionably, praise Jeff for not throwing his being right about Mike Bell in my face. So, Tony, where are my kudos for REALLY not throwing it back in Jeff's face, not even uttering a word about it, even though at the end of the day, when it matters, all that bullshit aside, I ended up being right about Mike Bell? But, I didn't and had NO intention to throw it in his face. I digress...

Now I didn't have the time to go back and read the original thread about this subject. But, I thought the Jeff's take was, "Don't be surprised if Mike Bell is the opening day starter", which he was. So, I gave hima pat on the back for being right and not gloating about it. I thought your original take was, "Ron Dayne is goign to be the man in Denver", which turned out to totally wrong. I'm sure you will correct me if I'm wrong.

on 10/25/06 at 05:47:39, StegRock wrote:

Again, is it this en vogue to stomp on my head whenever the chance can be had, even if it might be questionable or even erroneous, but so out of vogue to get my back or throw a little love my way, even when it's clear-cut? (Mind you, I understand, Tony, that you probably haven't even given this a second thought, which isn't a problem in and of itself. But, when you did give it a thought, I was the one pooped on.)

I will give you props for ....after your original thoughts on Dayne were completely wrong, you said don't be surprised if he winds up with Houston. Congratulations!!! [smiley=bow.gif] [smiley=wizard.gif]

I hope that makes you feel better. However, your thoughts that he would be tear it up there, yeah those were wrong too. He wasn't even active last week. Believe me when I say that I was aware of all these things and never tried to put it in your face. As well as the CBFL defensive scoring system. I didn't comment on that either because it would not be supportive of you in the least.

So, I know that you think that I'm a piece(a solid one) of shit that never sticks up for you, but I actually tried to do that with my original takes on this thread. I also was trying to have your back by not blasting you about Dayne or the CBFL Defensive scoring set-up. But, I guess that doesn't really matter. There goes my chance at "the bigger picture".

on 10/27/06 at 02:08:45, MordecaiCourage wrote:

It might just have a chance to reach a 100 now!!!

Title: Re: How do you know you're in a deeeeeeeep keeper
Post by StegRock on Oct 28^th, 2006, 6:12am

No,... VERY fair enough... and quite well-argued if I must say so! [smiley=awwgee.gif] I readily accept many of those lumps (and even what I don't see eye-to-eye with I think you've fairly reasonably argued),... especially this one...

on 10/28/06 at 03:20:29, Tony_O wrote:

I do have to ween myself off of that one... [smiley=yes.gif] I'm sorry I fall back on that one ALL the time. [smiley=bow.gif] I mean... it is what it is,... but it is getting to be my hack, lame comeback with you.

...

The only small point I would want to beg to differ with you about, and I mean this in a very academic sense, is this one...

Quote:

I just thought he should have taken his own advice. He could have stuck up for you without dogging Jim, but perhaps this had to do with their other baseball issuses.

Jim,... baseball issues aside,... by calling me an asshole and a big jerk, was the culprit. I mean,... are you saying Jamo should have just spoke "in general"? I get the spirit of where you are going, Tony, but, hey, Jim wasn't speaking "in general" when he call ME an asshole. I don't get the luxury of being "called out" "in general". I mean... we don't need to play games like that. [smiley=no.gif] We're all "men" and can take it. We all would have known who he was referring to, anyway. [smiley=shrug.gif]

Title: Re: How do you know you're in a deeeeeeeep keeper
Post by Tony_O on Oct 28^th, 2006, 11:13am

I just meant that he could have addressed your situation specifically to whatever degree he wanted without calling Jim names. I would have called him on that no matter who he was talking about.

Title: Re: How do you know you're in a deeeeeeeep keeper
Post by BarnabyWilde on Oct 28^th, 2006, 2:19pm

Wow...I truly am sorry for what my opinion of Steg has caused.

From now on, I plan on posting my lineups and team reports here...and that is all. Good luck to everyone.

Title: Re: How do you know you're in a deeeeeeeep keeper
Post by StegRock on Oct 28^th, 2006, 6:53pm

on 10/28/06 at 11:13:16, Tony_O wrote:

I just meant that he could have addressed your situation specifically to whatever degree he wanted without calling Jim names. I would have called him on that no matter who he was talking about.

Tony,... maybe I am missing it,... but Jamo didn't really participate in any name-calling. He came close with his hypothetical there,... but I don't see anything that crosses the line,... at least,... surely not to the degree that Jim did. Now that, we can beg to differ on.

Title: Re: How do you know you're in a deeeeeeeep keeper
Post by Tony_O on Oct 29^th, 2006, 12:01am

Your right Steve, he didn't call Jim any names. I guess he just questioned his integrity and character, which might actually be worse than name calling. However, I took acception to doing it in a public manner, but saying Jim should have not done the same to you in a public manner. I wasn't overly offended, I jusy thought it was a bit hypocritical. I have never had any problems with WB and I hope he truly doesn't stay away. If I affended him in anyway, I APOLIGIZE Walker_Boh!