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Title: ISSUE: Trade Deadline & Fumbles on Offense Post by StegRock on Dec 31st, 2002, 1:47pm What we are currently discussing and voting on... ISSUE 1 - Moving the "Trading Deadline" to the weekend after Thanksgiving regardless of what week of the season it is. ISSUE 2 - Adding "Cumulative fewest Fumbles" by offensive players as a single 3-point category. Here is how the voting on these issues has gone thus far: ISSUE 1: YES - 2 (Dave Trout, Frank Gonzalez) ISSUE 1: NO - 3 (Steve Stegeman, Dave Bohrer, Rob Pak) ISSUE 2: YES - 3 (Steve Stegeman, Frank Gonzalez, Rob Pak) ISSUE 2: NO - 2 (Dave Trout, Dave Bohrer) ALL VOTES ON THESE ISSUES MUST BE SUBMITTED/POSTED NO LATER THAN MIDNIGHT (EST) SATURDAY, JANUARY 4TH. |
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Title: Re: ISSUE: Trade Deadline & Fumbles on Offense Post by StegRock on Dec 31st, 2002, 2:26pm Here is the reasoning behind the way I voted... As to ISSUE 1, while I somewhat agree that Week 13's falling on Thanksgiving week this year was a prohibitive circumstance to cutting last-minute deals before the trade deadline, I just do not like the idea of moving the trading deadline back yet again. Remember originally, as a holdover from ASG, it used to be Week 12. I NEVER had a problem with that. I would actually vote "Yes" if we decided to vote on this again but make it the week before Thanksgiving instead of the week after (NOTE: that is NOT what we are voting on right now... now we are voting on whether it should be the week after Thanksgiving or NOT). The farther back the trading deadline is just makes making "improper" trades more tempting. Now, I do not think anyone here would actually cut a deal detrimental to the (standards of the) league. BUT, the later the trade deadline is, the more likely it would be for a bottom team to trade players playing solidly at the time of the trade for players who should be solid the next year, but are out with (season-ending) injuries. Let's say Joe were in the running last year/in 2001. It would have been like his trading Jamal Lewis late in the season to Rob Pak for, let's say, Ricky Williams. These kinds of trades seem fairish at the time. But, the truth is, if the players being traded are roughly equal, then this is a total rip-off for the team getting the healthy player. It is like an illicit favor the bottom team is doing for the higher team by absorbing the rest of the useless season of the injured player. The later we push the trade deadline back, the more this becomes a possibility... a probability... a reality! As for ISSUE 2, it was argued that we do not need to add yet another small, trite category. Our game is fine the way it is. While I agree that our brand of fantasy football is just hunky-dorey, there is always room for improvement and this small addition would be an improvement. Fumbles have a huge impact on a team's success on offense and, ultimately, a game. Look no further than Tiki Barber's FOUR fumbles this past weekend. They had as much impact on the game as his whopping 270-some yards gained. They are what kept Philly in the game. Listen, "how small an issue is" is not a reason to vote against it. ACTUALLY, BECAUSE our game is so honed, the only kinds of changes we should be considering at this point in time are the small ones. To be frank, I don't want to hear any "big, sweeping" proposals for at least a couple years. Anyway, given the stats service I now use, adding this category to the spreadsheet would be easy as cake. Bottom line, this idea is an improvement to our game. "How much" it "improves" our game shouldn't matter! Let's do it! Now, I welcome you all to state your cases as well! |
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Title: Re: ISSUE: Trade Deadline & Fumbles on Offense Post by DirkDiggler on Dec 31st, 2002, 3:00pm Issue ONE-- I personally like the trade deadline where it lines. I do not think it should change year to year based on a holiday. I understand this only gives you three days to get a deal done that week, BUT, you had 12 weeks BEFORE Thanksgiving. so my vote is: NO Issue TWO-- I am very torn on this issue. It could have a big impact with some of the close games we have had. Since we count interceptions against QB's, I am going to have to say YES to adding a fumble category. YES |
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Title: Re: ISSUE: Trade Deadline & Fumbles on Offense Post by DOLFAN on Dec 31st, 2002, 3:03pm Issue #1: I vote yes to have the last week of trades to be the week after T-DAY, whatever week # that will be in the future yrs. Issue#2: Steve, it appears that you have the core idea of my rule change proposal, but i don't know if i made it clear to you. I probably didn't clarify myself. What i meant was FUMBLES LOST, not just FUMBLES. Fumbles are basically a loss of down/poor play. [smiley=dejected.gif] I meant it to be simliar to INTs in that it is a turnover = VERY BAD PLAY/loss of possession. [smiley=bawling.gif] If it is just "fumbles" then i vote no. If it is for "Fumbles LOST" then i vote yes. I'm sorry if if did not make that point clear in our earlier discussions. |
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Title: Re: ISSUE: Trade Deadline & Fumbles on Offense Post by StegRock on Dec 31st, 2002, 9:52pm on 12/31/02 at 15:03:07, DOLFAN wrote:
Splitting hairs! ::) And, more work and headaches for the Stegger! ::) We do need to stop tinkering with our system soon. It really is excellent as it stands. Moving right along, Rob Pak and I actually talked about this issue over the phone. First off, I interpreted it to mean "fumbles in general," not just "fumbles lost." Secondly, in my stats pack the "fumbles" category means "ALL fumbles." So, we have been voting on it thusly. If it passes, that is the way it will be implemented in our game. Based on this information, if ANYONE wants to change his vote, he must do it BEFORE the deadline, midnight Saturday, January 4th. If this does not pass, we can then vote on it as just "fumbles lost." So, your vote, Joe, is "No"! Just to make a quick point, though, in support of the way we are currently voting on this, a fumble is not a good thing no matter if it is lost or not. Only luck saves (the result of) a fumble from being really bad, i.e. a turnover. However, they almost always result in the breakdown of the (intended) play. Interceptions, by definition, involve a turnover; fumbles do not. Whether they are lost or not, fumbles are "CRITICAL MISTAKES." ALL of that having been said, I am really not passionate about this issue and do not care if or how we implement it. |
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Title: Re: ISSUE: Trade Deadline & Fumbles on Offense Post by DirkDiggler on Jan 1st, 2003, 3:50pm I need to change my vote on issue #2--Fumbles. I assumed it was fumbles lost. I fumble that is recoved does NOT affect a team too much, so I vote NO. If it becomes fumbles lost.....I will change my vote. |
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Title: Re: ISSUE: Trade Deadline & Fumbles on Offense Post by Fiedlers Choice on Jan 2nd, 2003, 3:09pm Yeah, I agree with Steve Warner [smiley=graduate.gif] and Joe [smiley=bow.gif]on this one. Fumbles lost is a lot different than fumbles overall. If we want to weigh the "impact on the game" like Stegeman [smiley=mickey.gif] says, then a fumble recovered by the offense, which is followed by a sigh of relief, should not count. [smiley=pullleeeeeeeze.gif] If we want to add fumbles because we add INTs, then counting all fumbles would be like adding INTs that are dropped by defensive players.... "almost" doesn't count! :-* That being said, I am personally against the category either way. [smiley=thinking.gif] I think too many small categories detracts from the game, makes things too confusing [smiley=frustrated.gif]and dilutes the value of the important fantasy categories. In other words, I used to think that we should make the rules close to the real thing (that is why I used to support adding points for kicking and the 2 pointer). Now, I think that fantasy football is more about the yardage and TDs and we need not let these BS categories confuse things, even if it makes the game less realistic. [smiley=gonecrazy.gif] |
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Title: Re: ISSUE: Trade Deadline & Fumbles on Offense Post by dowens11 on Jan 3rd, 2003, 9:44am Issue 1 : yes Issue 2 : no Doug |
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Title: Re: ISSUE: Trade Deadline & Fumbles on Offense Post by Skcus Redef 2 on Jan 3rd, 2003, 4:29pm Issue 1: No - keep deadline as is Issue 2: No - I will consider fumbles lost but not fumbles in general. |
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Title: Re: ISSUE: Trade Deadline & Fumbles on Offense Post by StegRock on Jan 6th, 2003, 12:20am Here are the final tallies of the first wave of voting: ISSUE 1: NO - 5 ISSUE 1: Yes - 4 ISSUE 2: NO - 6 ISSUE 2: Yes - 3 Danny is the only one who did not submit votes. HOWEVER, they would not have made a difference anyway. Issue 1, the "Trade Deadline" issue, is officially DEAD. Issue 2, the "Fumbles on Offense" issue will be voted on again in the second wave of voting, but this time we will deal with it as (only) "Fumbles LOST on Offense". See other thread for the next round of voting, which will include the "Coach of the Year" voting, FOR WHICH IT WILL BE STRONGLY ENCOURAGED THAT YOU SUBMIT YOUR VOTES PRIVATELY! Details to be on other thread located at: http://www.fantasyfootballer.com/cgi-bin/theGridiron/YaBB.cgi?board=53;action=display;num=1041832234. |
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