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        Featured Leagues >> GBRFL >>  2009 Protection Lists
        
(Message started by: DirkDiggler on Jul 27th, 2009, 9:52pm)
Title: 2009 Protection Lists
Post by DirkDiggler on Jul 27th, 2009, 9:52pm
I wanted to send my tentative, early keeper list.  Very subject to change!!


QB- Manning, Schaub, Rivers, Bulger
RB- Julius Jones, Portis, Gore, Bush, Kevin Smith
WR- Coles, Houshmanzadeh, D Bowe
Def- Ravens
Title: Re: 2009 Protection Lists
Post by StegRock on Jul 27th, 2009, 10:50pm
[offtopic]By the way, guys,... let's use this as the official thread on which to announce protections [of course, you are still welcome to submit them to me via another medium if that is more convenient for you (and then I'll post them here)].[/offtopic]
Title: Re: 2009 Protection Lists
Post by Art Vandalay on Jul 29th, 2009, 11:56am
When are they due? ?.?.?
Title: Re: 2009 Protection Lists
Post by StegRock on Jul 29th, 2009, 4:49pm
Frank, all,... they are actually not due until, as usual, one week prior to the draft date.  As the Summer Meeting & Draft is scheduled for Sunday, August 16th, one's protections/cuts would be due by 11:59 p.m. (EST) on Sunday, August 9th.  So, as of right now, there is no rush.  One somewhat important peripheral matter to note, though, Baby [smiley=newbie.gif] Monica's christening will also be on Sunday, August 9th.  Come that night, I'm probably going to be pooped after a long day of ceremonies and partying with family and friends who we don't get to see often (anticipatively, including some of you). :P The point being, many of you call in on cuts day to chit-chat with the old Stegger.  While, of course, you all are still welcome to call in your cuts on the 9th, it's most definitely not going to be a good day for the chit-chat part.  So, for those of you who would like to do that, [smiley=phone.gif] know that I relish doing so but that cut-down day is not, unlike is usually the case, going to be the day to do it.  For that matter, the day before, Saturday, probably won't be that great of a day as well.

One other IMPORTANT related note, per our decision of a year ago, the Draft Lottery will also NOT take place at the Summer Meeting & Draft.  It will be done the evening after cut-down day.  Expect that we'll be doing it through FreeConferenceCall.com, the service we've used in the past, sometime after, say, 6:30 p.m. (EST) on Monday, August 10th.  Before resuming discussion on this, please let me get to Jersey first.  We'll hammer this all out then.  Do note that each and every GBRFLer does not need to participate.  In fact, we need only three people, one to "pull the numbers out of the hat" (his [smiley=moon.gif] ass) ;) and two dudes checking the result on the spreadsheet and acting as a check on each other.  Lastly, as for our arrival in Jersey, we are leaving tomorrow and anticipate arriving at my mom's late on Friday or midday Saturday.  Over and out...
Title: Re: 2009 Protection Lists
Post by T-Rave on Aug 3rd, 2009, 1:24pm
Tentative protections (keeper list):

QB: Palmer, Collins, Young, Jackson
RB: Brown, Taylor, MJD, Washington
RC: Gates, Johnson, Mason, Engram
Title: Re: 2009 Protection Lists
Post by IbdFunk on Aug 5th, 2009, 12:29am
qb- mcnabb, russell, Jake D, Trent Edwards
rb-Parker, Lynch, Fred Jackson, Leron Mclain
wr- Bryant, Wes W, Donnie Avery
Title: Re: 2009 Protection Lists
Post by Drew Rosenhaus on Aug 7th, 2009, 1:03am
QB: Warner, Cutler, Hasslebeck
RB: Turner, Forte, McFadden, Addai, M. Bush
RC: Colston, Ochocinco, Jennings, B. Marshall, B. Edwards
Title: Re: 2009 Protection Lists
Post by DB on Aug 7th, 2009, 1:06pm
New team name: Flacco's Whackos

QB: Romo, Rodgers, Flacco
RB: Peterson, Jackson, Williams, Graham
WR: Fitzgerald, Moss, White, Smith, Breaston
Title: Re: 2009 Protection Lists
Post by T-Rave on Aug 7th, 2009, 1:13pm
Oops, forgot about team names.

New team name: The Laborers of Pocket Hercules
Title: Re: 2009 Protection Lists
Post by IbdFunk on Aug 7th, 2009, 8:56pm
What a dumb name. Please explain? I need a new team name, how bout, The jerk off squad!! My team is a bunch of jerk offs!!
Title: Re: 2009 Protection Lists
Post by T-Rave on Aug 8th, 2009, 5:24pm
The team name loses its wittiness if I have to explain it.

Suffice it to say that anyone familiar with Greek mythology (or with a rather recent Disney movie based on a famous Greek myth) should get the reference.  Only those familiar with my star running back will understand why the reference works.

My updated keeper list:

QB -- Palmer, Collins, Young, Jackson
RB -- Brown, Taylor, MJD, Washington, Williams
WR -- Johnson, Gates, Mason
Title: Re: 2009 Protection Lists
Post by IbdFunk on Aug 8th, 2009, 7:14pm
I didnt know Steve Young was still playing..
Title: Re: 2009 Protection Lists
Post by StegRock on Aug 8th, 2009, 11:13pm
The protections for the Ruthless Burgers...

QB's - Ben Roethlisberger, Chad Pennington, Byron Leftwich, Michael Vick

RB's - Ryan Grant, Derrick Ward, Cedric Benson

RC's - Jason Witten, Anthony Gonzalez, Hines Ward, Tony Gonzalez

DU's - Pittsburgh Steelers, Minnesota Vikings
Title: Re: 2009 Protection Lists
Post by IbdFunk on Aug 9th, 2009, 10:13am
Where is everyone elses protection lists?
Title: Re: 2009 Protection Lists
Post by DirkDiggler on Aug 9th, 2009, 1:32pm

on 08/09/09 at 10:13:18, IbdFunk wrote:
Where is everyone elses protection lists?


Not due until tonight at midnight.  You know Joe is trying to sell all of the players he is going to cut until the very last minute!
Title: Re: 2009 Protection Lists
Post by DOLFAN on Aug 9th, 2009, 3:47pm


QB: Brady, Cassell, Henne, Culpepper
RB: LT2, Larry Johnson, Lendale White, Mendenhall, Felix Jones, Pierre Thomas
WR: Boldin, Lance Moore
Title: Re: 2009 Protection Lists
Post by T-Rave on Aug 9th, 2009, 4:13pm
Updated (again) Protected Players List (I now have only 11, having traded a pro spot to Joe for his 2.6):

QB - Palmer, Collins, V. Young, T. Jackson

RB - MJD, R. Brown, F. Taylor, L. Washington, R. Williams

WR - A. Johnson, A. Gates
Title: Re: 2009 Protection Lists
Post by Art Vandalay on Aug 9th, 2009, 8:52pm
Here we go. Presenting your 2009 GBRFL Champions The Brady Bunch.

QB- Brees, Orton, Quinn, Rosenfels
RB- Westbrook, Slaton, Barber, Lewis, Rice
WR- Jackson, Moss
Def- Giants
Title: Re: 2009 Protection Lists
Post by Pakman on Aug 9th, 2009, 11:35pm
QB - Eli Manning, Matt Leinart, David Garrard, Matt Ryan
RB - Thomas Jones, Jonathon Stewart, Chris Johnson, Tim Hightower
WR - Roy Williams, Reggie Wayne, Calvin Johnson, Desean Jackson
Title: Re: 2009 Protection Lists
Post by IbdFunk on Aug 9th, 2009, 11:38pm
I am replacing Donnie Avery with Dominic Hixson due to his pussy ass getting injuried. My rest of line up is still the same
Title: Re: 2009 Protection Lists
Post by StegRock on Aug 10th, 2009, 2:07am
Guys, first off, the good news,... :) the "Rosters" (and "Transactions") page(s) at the league site has (have) been updated.  The bad news,... :-/ the cuts this year did not go by without hitch.

Dave Trout, who is presently away on a family trip in Disney World [smiley=mickey.gif] and did not submit his protections here or by e-mail, did not phone me until 12:23 tonight.  He had reasons that I will let him explain if he so chooses/if need be.  In any event, he immediately apologized and the next words from his mouth were, "Do what you gotta do, Steg."  He had yet to realize the ramifications.  I ended up asking him what his protections would have been... because, if I follow the letter of the law, his team gets destroyed.  As applied here, the letter of the law, stated and then set by precedent and frankly speaking meant to be harsh (though perhaps not this harsh), is that his team would be cut down according to offseason trades and his prior year's Week 17 lineup in the following 12-protection configuration:  3 QB's, 4 RB's, 4 RC's and 1 DU.  Fewer protections, and I just work backwards up the list according to the lowest "traditional" positional value per the GBRFL format, i.e. DU, #4 RC, #3 QB, #4 RB, #3 RC... and so on... toward the "traditional" position of most value, #1 RB.  So, at any rate, since Dave has 11 protection spots, the DU is what he would lose.

As such, the team Trout would be left with if I followed the letter of the law would be as follows:
QB's - Jeff Garcia, Shaun Hill, Alex Smith
RB's - Maurice Morris, Ahmad Bradshaw, Dominic Rhodes, LaMont Jordan
RC's - Terrell Owens, Lee Evans, Santonio Holmes, Bernard Berrian

The protections he submitted were:
QB's - Jason Campbell, Shaun Hill, Alex Smith
RB's - Brandon Jacobs, Correll Buckhalter, LaMont Jordan
RC's - Terrell Owens, Lee Evans, Eddie Royal, Santonio Holmes, Bernard Berrian

BIG DIFFERENCE!!!

Given the impact this would have on the Draft and the fact that he was only 23 minutes late, I felt I should present the situation to the league and get some input (before just wielding the hammer [smiley=hammer.gif]) (and maybe even ultimately go about it democratically).  (Furthermore, we may want to visit this area of our rules during our rules discussion come the meeting next Sunday).  Again, the rule is meant to be harsh... and dissuasive, but not necessarily this harsh.  I'm not saying Dave shouldn't be penalized, but to a degree that his team is decimated... and the Draft gets thrown somewhat significantly out of whack?

Maybe here, we can use Dave's situation to set precedent on a more "gradated" penalty system for protections submitted late.  I just wouldn't want it to be too loose because, as you all know, things can change significantly from moment to moment at this time of the year (when we are usually doing our cuts) (though not at all typically in the middle of the night as is the case here).

All things considered (though a lot of us are away on vacation and/or extremely busy at this time), I am personally sort of inclined toward mercy.  That said, bottom line, this shouldn't happen and I surely don't want to encourage it.  Heck, because of this, I'm not going to get to bed here (and I am tired out of my gourd after, mind yous, a wonderful day of celebration for Monica Marie's christening) until probably around 3:00 a.m. [smiley=no.gif] I otherwise could have been snoozing away [smiley=sleepers.gif] by 12:30 after updating the web site.

So, what do yous think???  PLEASE chime in... thoughtfully!!!
Title: Re: 2009 Protection Lists
Post by T-Rave on Aug 10th, 2009, 10:42am
Let me approach this philosophically . . .

The rule is in place and according to the letter of the law, Trout's team gets decimated.  But we need to ask why the rule exists -- it exists to get protection spots submitted in a timely fashion so we can have the draft in a timely manner, and (this year) so we can have the lottery pick drawings in a timely manner.  Now midnight is an arbitrary deadline, in the absolute sense (what's 23 minutes, at the end of the day? -- it's still "timely," or at least timely enough for the purposes for which the rules was instituted).  Furthermore, the extenuating circumstances are apparent -- on vacation, with family, away from the computer, etc.  Thus I am of the strong opinion that mercy is the best call here.
Title: Re: 2009 Protection Lists
Post by Art Vandalay on Aug 10th, 2009, 11:09am
Let's leave it up to Monica Marie. If you show her a picture of Dave and she vomits, the rule sticks. If she simply burps in disgust, we allow the late selections.

Seriously though, I agree with Mr. Rave. The letter of the rule is not as important in this case as the spirit.
There is no major damage to the draft or the league by a 23 minute delay in posting. If he had submitted during or after the lottery that would be a different impact.

I believe there is precedence here though. It's not the first time this has happened in league history. Let's refer back to the "Trent Green" incident. I believe it may have involved one Dave Trout back then too.

As much as I would love to scoop up Brandon Jacobs though, it wouldn't feel right to destroy Dave's team in the process.

I vote for leniency. I expect the same in return should I submit a lineup in late during the season though.
Title: Re: 2009 Protection Lists
Post by Pakman on Aug 10th, 2009, 11:14am
I agree with Frank and Travis.  I almost missed the deadline as well because I was coming back from vacation.  

In addition, there was no harm from his slight delay in submitting his protection list and the damage to his team would be ridiculous.
Title: Re: 2009 Protection Lists
Post by DirkDiggler on Aug 10th, 2009, 12:11pm

on 08/10/09 at 11:14:54, Pakman wrote:
I agree with Frank and Travis.  I almost missed the deadline as well because I was coming back from vacation.  

In addition, there was no harm from his slight delay in submitting his protection list and the damage to his team would be ridiculous.


Agree, 23 minutes....no harm, no foul.  
Title: Re: 2009 Protection Lists
Post by DOLFAN on Aug 10th, 2009, 1:38pm
To start off, let's please not open a can of worms by talking about late lineups during the season. .We should stay focused here on this topic.

As far as the case at hand: I think that we should fry  [smiley=flamewar.gif] the Napoleanic short non-spelling bastard. He is always bragging about have a great team and will win it all every year, so he should pay dearly and severely.  [smiley=LMFAO.gif]
So I vote no!!!!!!!  [smiley=spank.gif]  J/K

News just in, I thought it was Danny we were talking about.
Since it's Trout I agree that we should let him slide, but if something like this happens in the future....well we can discuss that at the draft. I say show mercy also and let him submit he wanted keepers....the 23 minute late list.
Title: Re: 2009 Protection Lists
Post by StegRock on Aug 10th, 2009, 2:54pm

on 08/10/09 at 10:42:01, T-Rave wrote:
Let me approach this philosophically . . .

The rule is in place and according to the letter of the law, Trout's team gets decimated.  But we need to ask why the rule exists -- it exists to get protection spots submitted in a timely fashion so we can have the draft in a timely manner, and (this year) so we can have the lottery pick drawings in a timely manner.  Now midnight is an arbitrary deadline, in the absolute sense (what's 23 minutes, at the end of the day? -- it's still "timely," or at least timely enough for the purposes for which the rules was instituted).  Furthermore, the extenuating circumstances are apparent -- on vacation, with family, away from the computer, etc.  Thus I am of the strong opinion that mercy is the best call here.


Spoken like a true Confucian... [smiley=bow.gif] ... ;) And, per my post, I tend to agree with the direction this discussion has gone.  Furthermore, reading between the lines, I appreciate that, in part, the spirit of this may be to make this easier on me as league commish and admin.  To the degree that this is the case, I thank yous! :)


on 08/10/09 at 02:07:00, StegRock wrote:
That said, bottom line, this shouldn't happen and I surely don't want to encourage it.



on 08/10/09 at 13:38:43, DOLFAN wrote:
To start off, let's please not open a can of worms by talking about late lineups during the season. .We should stay focused here on this topic.


BUT, herein (Frank's post) lies the problem...


on 08/10/09 at 11:09:08, Art Vandalay wrote:
I expect the same in return should I submit a lineup in late during the season though.


This is perhaps particularly poignant to me as commissioner and administrator of the league, I understand.  However, while this late-night late submission of protections surely happens to be innocuous, similar innocuousness does not apply to other facets of our game, notably the weekly submission of lineups, which really does not afford much in the way of flexibility at all (but, yet, is the specific thing Frank mentions), and this, the spirit here, which I think is well-intentioned, actually puts me in an awkward spot from an administrative perspective, moreover, especially as regards lineup matters, which really would need to be dealt with by me on the spot as once the games get going and the stats come rolling in the circumstance is tainted and there is no time for discussion or, at least, there is no time for anything else but after-the-fact discussion.

Again, to reiterate, the Confucian Personalist in me is all about flexible guidelines rather than absolute rules (of course, on a meta-level, even that position, qua rule, is not to be "absolutely" held).  How that truly comes out in the wash, and not just as a slogan, is you can only be as flexible or absolute, respectively, as the reality of the situation is flexible or absolute, respectively, and, thus, I have always encouraged the GBRFL to adopt liberal rules,... guidelines,... but strict enforcement [rather than, say, the much less clear, but often perceived to be more comfortable (for those fearful of confrontation) and opted-for, liberal enforcement of strict rules].  Bottom line, though people's hearts are in the right place here, we just cannot have a situation where we cut people slack and then others "expect" their break.  The breaks pile up and all of a sudden we find ourselves (I find myself) liberally (instead of conservatively) enforcing (our already) liberal rules, which is, as our country [smiley=patriot.gif] is painstakingly learning, an unsustainable nightmare.  Liberality is best applied in legislation, not enforcement.  Conservatism is best applied in enforcement, not legislation.  But, I digress...  I just don't want our relatively VERY smoothly-run league, for going on 17 years now, thrust into the nightmare of making exceptions, doing "favors" and potentially collusion.

That said, rules,... guidelines,... need not be etched in stone, and, hence, the REAL problem here... as I was suggesting!  I, back in the day, established a (per what I wrote above, unusual for the GBRFL) VERY harsh "rule" for not submitting protections on time.  The problem that's come to the fore here is not the enforcement, but rather (as this case is illustrating) the (original) legislation (on my part, :-[ might I add).  It's just that the last time, the only time, this rule had to be enacted (and, yes, it was Dave Trout), the enforcement didn't really seem unduly harsh.  This time it does, but, again, that's not a problem of enforcement; it's a problem with the rule, and yet the, again well-intentioned, dialogue here is focused on the enforcement.

What I am suggesting is that we take this opportunity to revamp this rule, taking what would be appropriate punishment for Dave here as (insofar as it would actually be applied, very substantive) precedent moving forward, moreover, on the specific matter of the late submissions of annual protections.  This way the distinction between the annual submission of protections and other aspects of our rules,... guidelines,... like, say, weekly lineup submissions is maintained, and, most importantly, people are not expecting "favors" (from me) because of favors done for others, moreover, in other areas (which do not necessarily afford the same level of flexibility).  To be honest, I'm not so sure that Dave himself would be totally disagreeable with the assertion that some sort of penalty is in order here.

Contrary to the claim in Forrest Gump, "Life is like a box of chocolates.  You never know which one you're gonna get," I believe that "Life is like a ball of electrical cords.  You know you gotta deal with it, so get to it!"  SO, if not what is already in place, what would be reasonable punishment for the offense of not submitting your protections by the deadline?
Title: Re: 2009 Protection Lists
Post by DOLFAN on Aug 10th, 2009, 5:12pm
I have been thinking about a punishment since reading this.

Again I did not want to open another can of worms, but Steg's post has done so IMO...therfore:

As to try to stay with the theme/spirit of the NFL for salary cap, Tampering, drugs, personal conduct and the like I have what I personally feel is fair, based upon it only being 20 minutes and not after the lottery picks have been completed. With that having been said is surely open to discussion.

I think that Trout's punishment should the lose of 1 Pro-spot in 2010, in it's place the very last pick of the draft....9.11. Maybe it could designated the infamous "Mr. Irrelevant" Rule.

Let me know what you guys think?
Title: Re: 2009 Protection Lists
Post by DirkDiggler on Aug 10th, 2009, 6:37pm
Ultimately, I will admit I was very torn on this whole issue, but could go with the flow.   23 minutes is not much, however, we had the opportunity to post our protection picks as early as we wanted.  Hell.... I posted mine in July because I might have had to do some travelling on business.  However, I also understand the situation Dave was facing.  With family, on vacation, and of course you have to see the parade!

In regards to the penalty , I would think a protection spot is reasonable as Joe suggested. I do think something should occur. Maybe a 3rd round pick.  

A protection spot vs losing Campbell and Jacobs.

The one thing I would caution is actually my tag line on this site:  "Every rule has an exception, but the exception can not become the rule."  What if the deadline is missed by 23 hours instead of 23 minutes?  When it comes to making exceptions to rules, you open a MAJOR can of worms.  

However, keeping this in perspective, it was only 23 minutes and he was on vacation.....  

Also, Steg, I commend your integrity of raising the issue.  Not easy for a commish to deal with.
Title: Re: 2009 Protection Lists
Post by StegRock on Aug 10th, 2009, 11:14pm
The conclusion of the matter regarding Dave Trout...

Those of us who participated in tonight's conference call for the Draft Lottery did continue the discussion on the issue of Dave Trout's not submitting his protection spots on time.  Given the fact that a timely decision needs to be made (and we didn't, if you will, have a quorum), I heard everybody out and am just making an executive decision (which is probably the best way for this to be decided anyway, i.e. not democratically given matters of self-interest).  This "legislation" will stand as our new rule for this...

If someone does not submit his protections by the deadline, presumably 11:59 p.m. on cut-down day which is typically set one week prior to the Summer Meeting & Draft, i.e. midnight or later, he forfeits one protection spot (for the year the transgression takes place), i.e. has to cut one additional player (and receives a pick that is to be added in at the very end of the draft).  If said participant then goes on to not submit his protections list by the scheduled start time of the Draft Lottery, presumably sometime the evening after the cut-down day, or within 24 hours, whichever (for the given year) comes first, his roster is subject to the (Week 17 lineup) cutdown policy that has heretofore been in place (enacted just once before) and has been explicated earlier on this thread.

As such, Dave needs to cut down his roster by one more.  I left him a message about it tonight.  I hope to get that from him a.s.a.p.  Bottom line, good job, fellas! [smiley=thumbsup.gif] Thanks for all the thoughtful input! [smiley=bow.gif]
Title: Re: 2009 Protection Lists
Post by IbdFunk on Aug 11th, 2009, 9:28pm
You would think by now he would have his protection spots in. Is he going to be around for the draft?
Title: Re: 2009 Protection Lists
Post by StegRock on Aug 11th, 2009, 11:18pm
Danny, it's not that Dave needs to submit his protections.  They are already in and, based on our decision yesterday, we have accepted them.  He just needs to get his extra cut in to me, which, don't get me wrong, should be done in a timely fashion (should have been done by now), but, let's just say, there is some "soul-searching" going on on his end.  His extra cut will be submitted in a timely fashion.  Thank you for your patience and continued anticipated understanding,... everybody!
Title: Re: 2009 Protection Lists
Post by StegRock on Aug 12th, 2009, 12:37am

on 08/10/09 at 02:07:00, StegRock wrote:
The protections he submitted were:
QB's - Jason Campbell, Shaun Hill, Alex Smith
RB's - Brandon Jacobs, Correll Buckhalter, LaMont Jordan
RC's - Terrell Owens, Lee Evans, Eddie Royal, Santonio Holmes, Bernard Berrian


Dave Trout's team with his extra penalty cut (of QB Shaun Hill)...

QB's - Jason Campbell, Alex Smith
RB's - Brandon Jacobs, Correll Buckhalter, LaMont Jordan
RC's - Terrell Owens, Lee Evans, Eddie Royal, Santonio Holmes, Bernard Berrian

I will be updating the "Rosters" page accordingly. [smiley=onit.gif]


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