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Title: Pittsburgh will be the greatest show on grass! Post by Daunte Williams on May 20th, 2003, 1:00pm Is it just me or do you guys get a warm, fuzzy feeling when you think about the Steelers offense this year. I think they will be as good as the Rams were a couple of years back, they are pretty similar. Here me out before you start [smiley=LMFAO.gif] at me. Tommy Maddox=Kurt Warner- both very accurate passers. Amos Zeroue=Marshall Faulk= this is a stretch, but Famous can run & catch very well. Burress/Ward=Holt/Bruce= Perfect clones of each other. What do you guys think? |
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Title: Re: Pittsburgh will be the greatest show on grass! Post by Philly on May 20th, 2003, 1:09pm [smiley=alcoholic.gif] [smiley=alcoholic.gif] [smiley=alcoholic.gif] [smiley=alcoholic.gif] [smiley=alcoholic.gif] [smiley=alcoholic.gif] [smiley=alcoholic.gif] [smiley=alcoholic.gif] [smiley=bonghit.gif] [smiley=bonghit.gif] [smiley=bonghit.gif] [smiley=bonghit.gif] [smiley=bonghit.gif] [smiley=bonghit.gif] [smiley=ragin.gif] [smiley=ragin.gif] [smiley=ragin.gif] [smiley=ragin.gif] [smiley=ragin.gif] [smiley=ragin.gif] [smiley=ragin.gif] [smiley=ragin.gif] |
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Title: Re: Pittsburgh will be the greatest show on grass! Post by Daunte Williams on May 20th, 2003, 1:13pm Philly- I guess you think I'm on crack. You are excited even a little bit? |
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Title: Re: Pittsburgh will be the greatest show on grass! Post by team_undecided on May 20th, 2003, 2:11pm none of those guys compare but the WR in my opinion Amos may be good but I doubt he'll be marshall we still have to see how good Tommy is after teams have a season of game planing for him The wideouts though are comparable. Burress doesn't have holts seperation but is stronger and taller which still allows him to be a deep threat and war and bruce can both do just about everything and are willing to do it all. Pitt will be good but no Offensive powerhouse that will be in Hotlanta! |
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Title: Re: Pittsburgh will be the greatest show on grass! Post by Daunte Williams on May 20th, 2003, 2:20pm I like Atlanta's O this year, but they will be nowhere near as explosive as the Steelers. |
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Title: Re: Pittsburgh will be the greatest show on grass! Post by Keyshawn Johnson 76yards on May 20th, 2003, 3:24pm on 05/20/03 at 13:09:48, Philly wrote:
I'm with Philly on this one. I think Tommy Maddox is a joke... really. |
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Title: Re: Pittsburgh will be the greatest show on grass! Post by PA Outlaws on May 20th, 2003, 3:56pm I think they could be pretty good, but I would not put them on the level with the Rams yet! :o They will have a RBBC and Bettis will be used to slow down the game and grind it out. I do like their receivers a lot, but I'm not sold on how great the O will be yet. Their D will keep scores low and they will be grinding out a lot of clock throughout the season. |
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Title: Re: Pittsburgh will be the greatest show on grass! Post by Razzak on May 20th, 2003, 4:23pm Doubt it. The 3 WR phenomenon will still be useful but it won't have the same impact as the Rams did when they came out with it. The rams were able to field an explosive offense that worked because teams were only 2 deep at corner. Then, with some teams forced to use the safeties to help in coverage, Faulk was able to go ape-shit on defenses. Over the last couple years, teams have set themselves up with 3 solid Cb's, making this offense less effective. I don't think we'll see a Rams "greatest show" offense again until someone else notices a deficiency in the league and can capitalize on it the same way the Rams did. Don't get me wrong, the Rams probably will still be one of the top offenses in the league (*if* Warner gets his act together), but they won't be what they were 2-3 years ago. P.S. Comparing Amos to Faulk is not a stretch... it's a joke. |
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Title: Re: Pittsburgh will be the greatest show on grass! Post by Philly on May 20th, 2003, 5:02pm I think maybe you overstated things just a little bit DW... I LOVE the Steelers WR corps. They'll put up some nice numbers. Maddox is a question mark. He did well last year, but keep in mind he couldn't keep a job in the NFL for a lot of years... Amos Zereoue is another question mark. He has a lot of ability. He is very quick and has good hands out of the backfield. I loved him in college and hoped he'd get a shot in the NFL. I think he can be a solid #2 RB for a fantasy team. Faulk was a concensus #1 overall player when he was in his heyday with the Rams of a few years back. |
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Title: Re: Pittsburgh will be the greatest show on grass! Post by StegRock on May 20th, 2003, 5:05pm Well, now, as per the very top of "The REAL Feed", they just signed WR Chris Doering to be their Ricky Proehl. They are lookin' more and more like the Rams with every minute that passes! [smiley=rollinwithlaughter.gif] |
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Title: Re: Pittsburgh will be the greatest show on grass! Post by theWave on May 20th, 2003, 9:17pm It may be a bit of a reach by Daunte, but they will be real good nonetheless. Any excuse to give a plug for his rams! |
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Title: Re: Pittsburgh will be the greatest show on grass! Post by Daunte Williams on May 20th, 2003, 9:34pm I'll stir this up a bit more. How about we have people post their top 5 team offenses from a fantasy perspective for each conference. I'll start: AFC- 1) Pittsburgh 2) Kansas City 3) Oakland 4) Denver 5) Buffalo NFC- 1) Seattle 2) St. Louis 3) Minnesota 4) New Orleans 5) San Francisco |
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Title: Re: Pittsburgh will be the greatest show on grass! Post by PA Outlaws on May 20th, 2003, 10:29pm I like that DW! AFC: 1. Buffalo 2. Oakland 3. Kansas City 4. Indianapolis 5. Denver NFC: 1. New Orleans 2. St. Louis 3. Seattle 4. Minnesota 5. S.F. |
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Title: Re: Pittsburgh will be the greatest show on grass! Post by Keyshawn Johnson 76yards on May 20th, 2003, 10:35pm on 05/20/03 at 22:29:54, PA Outlaws wrote:
AFC 1. Oakland 2. Buffallo 3. Denver 4. Indianopolis 5. Kansas City (Holmes injury, not sold on WR corp) NFC 1. St. Louis 2. Minnesotta 3. Seattle 4. New Orleans 5. Philadelphia |
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Title: Re: Pittsburgh will be the greatest show on grass! Post by PA Outlaws on May 20th, 2003, 10:37pm on 05/20/03 at 22:35:11, Keyshawn Johnson 76yards wrote:
Who do you like on Philly besides McNabb and Akers? [smiley=eagle.gif] |
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Title: Re: Pittsburgh will be the greatest show on grass! Post by Philly on May 20th, 2003, 10:49pm AFC 1. Indianapolis 2. Oakland 3. Kansas City 4. Buffalo 5. San Diego NFC 1. New Orleans 2. Minnesota 3. Seattle 4. St. Louis 5. Atlanta/Philadelphia (tie) Hey PA... Eagles offense is better than last year, and they were no slouches in 2002. They've got better RBs, a legit FB, speed at TE, and improved WRs... plus McNabb is a year older and wiser... |
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Title: Re: Pittsburgh will be the greatest show on grass! Post by PA Outlaws on May 20th, 2003, 10:57pm I agree with your statement Philly, but from a fantasy perspective, do you see Lewis producing big numbers? A 1,000 yard receiver, and who at RB? To many fantasy questions to be considered a top 5 team. All other teams on the lists have proven WR's, RB's, TE's (some), and QB's. I'm a diehard Eagle fan, and I am not trying to cut them up at all, but from a fantasy perspective, I don't consider them in the "elite". Hopefully I'm wrong! ;) |
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Title: Re: Pittsburgh will be the greatest show on grass! Post by StegRock on May 20th, 2003, 11:02pm Here is who I think will be and how I see the top offenses (not limiting myself to five per conference): AFC 1. Broncos [smiley=broncofan.gif] 2. Raiders [smiley=warrior.gif] 3. Chiefs [smiley=chief.gif] 4. Browns [smiley=dog.gif] 5. Bills [smiley=proudAmerican.gif] 6. Chargers [smiley=storm.gif] 7. Steelers [smiley=builder.gif] NFC 1. 49ers [smiley=wave.gif] 2. Vikings [smiley=viking.gif] 3. Seahawks [smiley=seahawk.gif] 4. Redskins [smiley=redskin.gif] 5. Falcons [smiley=turkey.gif] 6. Rams [smiley=frustrated.gif] 7. Buccaneers [smiley=pirate.gif] 8. Saints [smiley=priest.gif] |
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Title: Re: Pittsburgh will be the greatest show on grass! Post by BarnabyWilde on May 20th, 2003, 11:41pm LOL Steg...the Giants offense will be better than the Bucs and the Seahawks. Collins, Barber, Toomer, Hilliard, Shockey... |
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Title: Re: Pittsburgh will be the greatest show on grass! Post by StegRock on May 21st, 2003, 12:27am Honestly, BW, the Giants [smiley=swollenhead.gif] are right there. They were right on the cusp for me. I would probably rank them #9 in the NFC. I just did not want to go deeper than 8 in either conference. As for the Seahawks and Buccaneers, though, my arguments are quite lengthy and I don't feel like typing it all out; just suffice it to say that I think they will pick up where they left off. [smiley=yes.gif] |
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Title: Re: Pittsburgh will be the greatest show on grass! Post by team_undecided on May 21st, 2003, 1:38am AFC 1. Denver- Jake, Rod, Eddy, Ashlie, Clinton 2. Pitt- Tommy, Plaxico, Hines, Amos, Bus 3. SD- Drew, Boston, Fred, LaDamian 4. Oak- Rich, Joey, Tim, Jerry, Charlie, Tyrone 5. Indy- Peyton, Marvin, Reggie, Marcus, Ed NFC 1. Hotlanta- Vick, Vick, Peerless, Warrick, Vick, T.J. and Vick 2. New Orleans- Aaron, Joe, Donte, Duece 3. everyone else seems even to me after that alot of ups and downs and uncertainties with coaching changes(49ers) no coaching changes (rams) uncertainty of performance (seahawks, skins) I guess the next 2 would be Giants Philly and Vikes in no particular order. |
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Title: Re: Pittsburgh will be the greatest show on grass! Post by Daunte Williams on May 21st, 2003, 12:40pm Steg- You really like Cleveland's offense that much? I see nothing special about them, please enlighten me. |
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Title: Re: Pittsburgh will be the greatest show on grass! Post by DirkDiggler on May 21st, 2003, 1:17pm AFC-- 1. San Diego--Brees, Tomlinson, Boston. Silly!!! 2. Kansas City--(if Holmes healthy) 3. Indianapolis 4. Oakland 5. Steelers Not sure why you all think Denver will be there. Are you all that dillusional about Jake Plummer? Doesn't Denver enjoy running the ball over and over again? Buffalo? HA! Let's see. Lose best receiver, draft running back in first round, Tom Modrak GM. Can you say Pittsburgh of old all over again? Going to be grind it out football. NFC-- 1. St Louis 2. New Orleans 3. San Francisco 4. Minnesota Not much difference in the next 3. 4a. Philadelphia 4b. Seattle |
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Title: Re: Pittsburgh will be the greatest show on grass! Post by StegRock on May 21st, 2003, 1:47pm on 05/21/03 at 12:40:26, Daunte Williams wrote:
Not sure as to why, actually! As is fairly well-known on these boards, I am not high on William Green... maybe, I am just hedging my bets. ;) It is just that I think that their passing game is going to explode this year and that their running game will be good enough. When I add it all up in my head: [Kelly Holcomb (who I like) + Tim Couch (who I like, too, not going to miss a statistical beat if the QB goes down) + William Green (subjective judgment aside) + Jamel White + Quincy Morgan + Andre Davis + Dennis Northcutt + Kevin Johnson + an o-line that may finally be coming of age] x an "offensive," or "offensive (without the comma)" pass-happy system = GOOD SHIT somehow! Other than that, [smiley=whatever.gif] |
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Title: Re: Pittsburgh will be the greatest show on grass! Post by PA Outlaws on May 21st, 2003, 2:11pm on 05/21/03 at 13:17:11, DirkDiggler wrote:
S.D. # 1 - Come on! Tomlinson is a stud, but Brees is not a top flight QB and Boston can only do so much with Brees and double coverage! Plus the Tomlinson touches the ball 40 times a game! MMarty is run first. They in no way are the top fantasy team. Pass me some of that [smiley=bonghit.gif] you are smoking. It is powerful shit! |
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Title: Re: Pittsburgh will be the greatest show on grass! Post by DirkDiggler on May 21st, 2003, 2:29pm on 05/21/03 at 14:11:02, PA Outlaws wrote:
While yes, I do enjoy a good hit now and then, I think it is you that are smoking crack. I truly see them tearing it up. Brees is going to have a silly year. Tomlinson is a stud, AND Boston is a perfect fit. San Diego finished 8th last year in the AFC. I EASILY think Boston will make the difference to #1. You just wait and see.....your picks of Denver and Buffalo will not be in the top 5 while San Diego will finish number 1. Please remember, Jake the Fake is the QB in Denver. |
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Title: Re: Pittsburgh will be the greatest show on grass! Post by ZAGS on May 21st, 2003, 3:06pm AFC 1.Raiders 2.Colts 3.Broncos 4.Bills 5.Steelers+Jets+Chargers tie NFC 1.Saints 2.Seatle 3.Vikings 4.Falcons 5.Rams |
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Title: Re: Pittsburgh will be the greatest show on grass! Post by Philly on May 21st, 2003, 3:57pm on 05/21/03 at 01:38:36, team_undecided wrote:
Who is Fred? [smiley=whatever.gif] |
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Title: Re: Pittsburgh will be the greatest show on grass! Post by Cirrinone on May 21st, 2003, 3:59pm McCrary's a Patriot now, boys :-D |
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Title: Re: Pittsburgh will be the greatest show on grass! Post by Philly on May 21st, 2003, 4:10pm on 05/21/03 at 14:29:09, DirkDiggler wrote:
I agree that SD will be improved this year. Boston will make a huge difference - probably not to #1 in the AFC though. And I'm not sure why everyone is jumping all over the Bronco bandwagon. Sure, they have a different QB. But what makes anyone believe that Jake can get the job done? Is Portis going to start this year or is Sham-I-am going to let another rookie (Griffin) tote the pig? (Being facetious here...) Rod Smith is older. Sharpe is older. Easy Ed is older and can't take those HUGE hits as well as he could even 2 years ago. Lelie looks like the real deal, but we won't know yet. And their O-line is OK, but not great. They'll be middle of the pack in the AFC. [smiley=horse.gif] |
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Title: Re: Pittsburgh will be the greatest show on grass! Post by theWave on May 21st, 2003, 5:10pm AFC: 1.Raiders 2.Colts 3.Broncos 4.Bills 5.Steelers 6.Chargers 7.Chiefs NFC: 1.Rams 2.Seahawks 3.49ers 4.Vikes 5.Saints 6.Skins 7.Falcons . . . . 20.Eagles How anyone can put the Eagles in their top 5 is insane! Smoke and Mirrors! |
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Title: Re: Pittsburgh will be the greatest show on grass! Post by Keyshawn Johnson 76yards on May 21st, 2003, 6:48pm on 05/21/03 at 17:10:40, theWave wrote:
I'll tell you why I put the Eagles in the top 5. Donovan McNabb prior to injury was in the Top 5 of best fantasy players and a leading candidate for MVP. Duce Staley turned up his production towards the latter end of the season and finished nicely among tops in fantasy among running backs. Chad Lewis, also prior to McNabb's injury was among the hottest TEs. Todd Pinkston, Freddie Mitchell, and James Thrash are all young WRs under 27. I believe this is the year Mitchell "breaks out" and becomes a Top WR. Pinkston and Thrash will follow up nicely with decent statistics that make them a worth #3 option. Correll Buckhalter, I hate, I think it is idiotic how Philadelphia is treating Staley. I hope he doesn't produce anything at all... |
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Title: Re: Pittsburgh will be the greatest show on grass! Post by theWave on May 21st, 2003, 7:07pm You have a awful lot of "prior to"s and "what if"s in your argument to sell me on anything. McNabb is one of the top fantasy quarterbacks, I'll give you that. But that's where the story ends. Duce is a very average NFL player and an even less average fantasy running back. He dances so much before he hits the hole, he'd be better suited for broadway! Chad Lewis hasn't been hot for two whole seasons now. And don't you think it's pretty sad that the Eagle's best two receivers might be someone's THIRD?? Their best fantasy player is one you didn't even mention, and that's their kicker! Come to think of it, I'm downgrading them to.. . . . . 25 |
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Title: Re: Pittsburgh will be the greatest show on grass! Post by StegRock on May 21st, 2003, 7:11pm on 05/21/03 at 19:07:59, theWave wrote:
Downgrading them to 25 may be a bit of an overkill, but I am with your overall assessment! [smiley=bullseye.gif] [smiley=thumbsup.gif] |
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Title: Re: Pittsburgh will be the greatest show on grass! Post by DirkDiggler on May 21st, 2003, 8:20pm on 05/21/03 at 19:11:40, StegRock wrote:
This coming from someone who has the Donkeys rated #1 in the AFC. With Jake the Fake...... v I guess we all have our home team biases. No one mentioned the Redskins. I probably would put them up there too. Ramsey will be much improved, improved receiving corp, and running game will be probably be utilized more this year. (No biases here, I friggin hate the Skins.) |
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Title: Re: Pittsburgh will be the greatest show on grass! Post by Keyshawn Johnson 76yards on May 21st, 2003, 8:28pm on 05/21/03 at 20:20:09, DirkDiggler wrote:
Yeah, Steg's opinion doesn't count. He is overly biased with his decisions. ELWAY is gone, get over it! LOL ;D [smiley=alcoholic.gif] [smiley=rasta.gif][/quote] |
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Title: Re: Pittsburgh will be the greatest show on grass! Post by PA Outlaws on May 21st, 2003, 10:17pm Am I dreaming or was there a recent post that said the Eagles WR's are good? ??? Freddie Mitchell is a PIG [smiley=pig.gif] now, next year, and forever.! Mitchell will not "break out" of the # 4 or 5 receiver!! Mitchell should not ever even be drafted in any leagues!! |
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Title: Re: Pittsburgh will be the greatest show on grass! Post by team_undecided on May 21st, 2003, 11:08pm Fred Jones a TE with great talent that was unused last year ofcourse he did just come off an injury. oh and double coverage didn't stop Boston in the years that he wasn't hurt and it doesn't stop TO Strong tall recivers make plays. and the back up WR who ever it may be (dwight has already been eliminated) can benefit from the attention Boston will get. He may pull a JJ Stokes or he could be a productive player. If it's Reche he may have a chance. I see good things from this O I may be [smiley=bonghit.gif] as well however |
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Title: Re: Pittsburgh will be the greatest show on grass! Post by StegRock on May 22nd, 2003, 12:05am on 05/21/03 at 20:20:09, DirkDiggler wrote:
That dumb [smiley=dunce.gif] Donkeys [smiley=broncofan.gif] fan [smiley=Elway.gif] here ranked the Skins [smiley=hooters.gif] #4 in the NFC! Do your homework, Double D [smiley=titflash.gif] ! >:( [smiley=tonguin.gif] on 05/21/03 at 23:08:36, team_undecided wrote:
I thought that was who you meant, t_u, but did not want to put you on the spot. Also, maybe, I am/was lost here, [smiley=lost.gif] but TE Freddie Jones played in Arizona last season. He was one of San Diego's biggest losses last offseason! As far as I know, he is still a Cardinal. [smiley=chicken.gif] |
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Title: Re: Pittsburgh will be the greatest show on grass! Post by Philly on May 22nd, 2003, 9:16am on 05/21/03 at 23:08:36, team_undecided wrote:
Freddie Jones went to Arizona before the 2002 season. The Chargers TE is Stephen Alexander... |
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Title: Re: Pittsburgh will be the greatest show on grass! Post by Philly on May 22nd, 2003, 9:46am on 05/21/03 at 19:07:59, theWave wrote:
Seems like you have some sort of personal vendetta against the Eagles. Do you know which team was 2nd in the NFC in scoring last year? Any idea which team was 5th in the NFC in total yards? I'll give you a hint. It was the team you had ranked lower than dead last in the NFC in offense in your previous posts. The Eagles have one of the best offensive lines in football. If you can name 5 in the entire NFL that are better, let me know. Runyan, Thomas, and Mayberry were all Pro-Bowlers last year. The Eagles have one of the most dangerous QBs in the league. Before his injury, McNabb was the #1 fantasy player (not just QB) in the league using conventional FF scoring. Not Priest Holmes or Rich Gannon or anyone! I'll grant you that Chad Lewis is on a serious downslide in his career, but he's still better than 1/2 of the TEs in the NFC. Plus the drafting of LJ Smith gives the Eagles an incredible athlete at the position. The running backs are BETTER than last year. Duce Staley showed no signs of injury after-effects last year and outscored FF RBs like Faulk, Dillon, and Bennett. Now add a healthy Correll Buckhalter to the mix and another year of experience to Brian Westbrook and the RB corps is faster and stronger than last year. Plus we got rid of an ineffective FB in Cecil Martin and upgraded to Jon Ritchie. Not the best in the league, but a definite upgrade. The WR corps is the one area that you have a legitimate argument. Pinkston has improved every year in the league. Thrash is a decent 3rd WR, but has been asked to perform as a #1 -- which he isn't. So this year either Mitchell or McMullen will have to assume a pretty big role. So, all told, the Eagles offense is at least as good as, and probably better than, last year's team. Now which NFC teams have significantly improved their offenses? Atlanta? Absolutely. Thay have a solid #1 receiver now, but still no certainty at RB. New Orleans? No. Their O-line is weaker than last year, their TE is better, but they are otherwise the same. Minnesota? No. Seattle? No. St. Louis? Maybe. Washington? Maybe. Better WRs. Worse RBs. Same coach. TB? Same team but lost their center. Giants? Slightly better. |
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Title: Re: Pittsburgh will be the greatest show on grass! Post by theWave on May 22nd, 2003, 12:42pm Philly, you make some very good points about the Birds offensive exploits. While McNabb is very good, you don't get any fantasy points for offensive lines. Their running game is good by NFL standards, but not fantasy football standards. With Buckhalter back and another year of experience for Westbrook, one thing comes to mind, RBBC. The post was about top FANTASY offenses in the NFL. While they are effective in winning ball games on the field, there aren't many individuals I would want on my fantasy team. 1.Rams 2.Seahawks 3.Vikes 4.Saints 5.Skins 6.Falcons 7.Eagles How's that for compromise? |
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Title: Re: Pittsburgh will be the greatest show on grass! Post by Philly on May 22nd, 2003, 1:17pm I guess I should eat a little crow on this one. I missed the part about the best offenses from a FANTASY perspective... I was arguing on the basis of best offenses period. In that case, I amend my argument about the Eagles. The only Eagles worth a spot on a fantasy roster are McNabb (could be #1 QB or #1 player overall), Pinkston (decent #2 receiver), Lewis (depending on amount of playing time) is still a starter at TE, and Akers and the defense (even with the changes) are both #1 starters. Sorry about blasting you like that Wave... [smiley=letsmakeup.gif] |
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Title: Re: Pittsburgh will be the greatest show on grass! Post by Philly on May 22nd, 2003, 1:23pm New list based on fantasy performers... AFC #1 Indianapolis #2 San Diego #3 Oakland #4 Buffalo #5 Pittsburgh NFC #1 New York Giants #2 New Orleans #3 Seattle #4 St. Louis #5 Minnesota |
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Title: Re: Pittsburgh will be the greatest show on grass! Post by theWave on May 22nd, 2003, 3:11pm Hey Philly, any time a Cowboys fan can make an Eagles fan eat crow, I'll take it. [smiley=shiteatingrin.gif] |
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Title: Re: Pittsburgh will be the greatest show on grass! Post by Philly on May 22nd, 2003, 10:32pm Geez... didn't realize you were a Cowboys fan. I might have to take that apology back! [smiley=rifle.gif] |
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Title: Re: Pittsburgh will be the greatest show on grass! Post by team_undecided on May 23rd, 2003, 12:36pm you guys are right I had it mixed up thinking he was a card first charger second. well then san diego goes down on my list due to me being a year late on offseason transactions. |
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Title: Re: Pittsburgh will be the greatest show on grass! Post by BarnabyWilde on May 23rd, 2003, 8:17pm That's what I am talking about! For an Eagles fan, you sure are smart... ;) on 05/22/03 at 13:23:34, Philly wrote:
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Title: Re: Pittsburgh will be the greatest show on grass! Post by Philly on May 24th, 2003, 7:23pm on 05/23/03 at 20:17:26, BarnabyWilde wrote:
I had to put the Giants first... Shockey could be the best FF TE. Toomer is a solid #1. I think Collins is a solid #1. Hilliard could be a decent #3 (if he stays away from Brian Dawkins). Tiki is a lower-rung #1 or an excellent #2. Can't beat that from a fantasy perspective. |
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Title: Re: Pittsburgh will be the greatest show on grass! Post by Keyshawn Johnson 76yards on May 25th, 2003, 12:31am I'm stickin' with my decision of Philly at the #5 spot. Philly, Giants at the #1? As long as they have Kerry Collins at QB, they're no where near the top 5. |
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Title: Re: Pittsburgh will be the greatest show on grass! Post by BarnabyWilde on May 25th, 2003, 3:56pm PLEASE!!! Collis led ALL NFC passers in yardage last season. If he and the rest of the O can increase production inside the red zone, then Collins IS a solid #1. If he can, say throw ten more tds then last years 19, he'd be my #1 in a heartbeat. on 05/25/03 at 00:31:42, Keyshawn Johnson 76yards wrote:
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Title: Re: Pittsburgh will be the greatest show on grass! Post by Daunte Williams on May 26th, 2003, 3:12pm Kerry Collins had a very good season, but he will NEVER be a #1 fantasy starting QB. He throws for good yardage totals, but throws low TD totals and runs for squat, so the best he will be is a solid guy to have in case of injury or bye weeks. |
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Title: Re: Pittsburgh will be the greatest show on grass! Post by PA Outlaws on May 26th, 2003, 3:20pm Agreed! He will never put up good enough numbers to win week in and week out. He has some very good week, but too many mediocre ones in between. If his TD total would increase , his INT total decrease, and if he would run some more, than I would chnage my view of him. |
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Title: Re: Pittsburgh will be the greatest show on grass! Post by Keyshawn Johnson 76yards on May 26th, 2003, 3:44pm I remember the Collins of Jax, the Collins who set the fumble record, and the Collins of the Superbowl. His last season was NOT all that GREAT, fantasy-wise to make me even THINK that he could be a #1, or #2 QB for that matter. Can Hilliard really rebound from last season's injury? Can Toomer continue to produce despite aging? Can Tiki have the season he had last year, despite all the losses on the O-Line? Can Shockey produce TDs? Can Collins avoid breaking the fumble record, again? To many questions to even be named in the Top 5. |
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Title: Re: Pittsburgh will be the greatest show on grass! Post by BarnabyWilde on May 26th, 2003, 4:23pm You mean Carolina? ;) on 05/26/03 at 15:44:52, Keyshawn Johnson 76yards wrote:
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Title: Re: Pittsburgh will be the greatest show on grass! Post by Keyshawn Johnson 76yards on May 26th, 2003, 5:13pm Yeah, I knew it was something like that. ;D |
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Title: Re: Pittsburgh will be the greatest show on grass! Post by Philly on May 27th, 2003, 12:10pm Here are the top QBs in FF scoring from last year on a weekly basis with byes included [total FF points in brackets]... Gannon 19 18 0 39 40 13 31 18 12 35 16 29 20 13 15 18 7 [343] Manning 26 11 22 0 25 16 13 22 24 31 20 7 13 12 23 30 12 [307] Culpepper 15 31 8 18 0 30 7 15 5 7 24 25 19 17 45 9 29 [304] Vick 27 15 23 0 1 0 24 28 3 26 27 22 35 10 19 27 16 [303] Brady 29 20 38 22 15 7 0 11 36 30 4 27 7 19 10 11 12 [298] Brooks 20 17 35 22 14 24 36 20 0 18 21 4 16 11 24 12 1 [295] Bledsoe 12 36 23 37 23 22 13 19 16 0 13 1 36 18 4 -1 19 [291] Green 16 10 19 47 21 25 7 13 0 7 14 25 20 10 24 30 3 [291] Garcia 12 17 3 0 21 26 17 35 27 5 25 24 3 40 15 14 1 [285] McNair 22 15 17 19 17 17 0 28 10 16 22 6 34 19 19 15 5 [281] Favre 23 19 28 12 32 23 3 0 11 26 17 6 16 16 14 6 11 [263] Pennington 0 1 -1 9 19 0 18 15 24 6 33 19 20 15 14 29 31 [252] McNabb 21 32 41 18 37 0 13 24 16 19 30 0 0 0 0 0 0 [251] Collins 7 16 11 3 23 12 0 10 16 24 10 10 23 20 7 38 14 [244] These numbers are based on a standard FF scoring system... 1/10 RuYds or ReYds, 1/20 PaYds, 6/TD, -2/INT, -2/FUM. Collins was #14 overall. I thought he did better than that, but the numbers don't lie. Only one 30+ point game and four 20+ games. Not good. With only ten games played, McNabb had four games of 30+. I'll still stick with my evaluation of the Giants as the #1 fantasy offense because of all their weapons. Collins did cut down on mistakes last year, but just couldn't get into the endzone. If he throws five more TDs last year, he's got almost the same numbers as Bledsoe. |
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Title: Re: Pittsburgh will be the greatest show on grass! Post by StegRock on May 27th, 2003, 12:38pm Philly, could you display that list again for just the second half of the season and show where Collins ends up? Hasselbeck could not even be on your list and B. Johnson isn't. I betchya' if you only do it for the second half of the season, at least one, if not both, of those guys would be on it, somewhere around middle-end of the pack would be my guess (remember Hasselbeck still only played in like five or six of their final eight games)! Point being, I think (a little) more consideration has to go towards 1) improvement throughout the season and a strong finish and 2) perfomance during fantasy football crunch time, which for me has always included the last week of the season. I mean Tom Brady is so overvalued on that list because of his coming out of the gate so fast, but then he petered out and basically sucked, with the exception of one week, from Week 11 on. Again, I don't really analyze things this way, so it would be much appreciated if some one of you, preferably Philly, who seems to have the resources already set up, could hook it up here! Thanks! [smiley=bow.gif] |
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Title: Re: Pittsburgh will be the greatest show on grass! Post by Daunte Williams on May 27th, 2003, 1:23pm You're telling me Brady sucked the 2nd half of last year. He is a [smiley=dick.bmp]. |
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Title: Re: Pittsburgh will be the greatest show on grass! Post by Razzak on May 27th, 2003, 5:54pm on 05/27/03 at 12:38:16, StegRock wrote:
Steg's got a good way to compare the guys who didn't play much last year. However, be careful with the thought process for people who played the whole year. According to 2nd half analysis of 2001, Kordell Stewart was the #4 QB in the league. We all know how well he did in 2002. Or how about the year before? When Kitna was a stud the second half and Seattle's goto guy for the next year? He ended up in Cincy [smiley=shootmyself.gif]. For quarterbacks, I really wouldn't use the 2nd half approach because it's more likely to burn you than help you. Other positions might be different as I haven't used that approach as much. There's no mathematical reason that 2nd half stats should be very misleading, just in my experience with quarterbacks it never seems to turn out right. |
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Title: Re: Pittsburgh will be the greatest show on grass! Post by Razzak on May 27th, 2003, 5:58pm Oh yeah Steg, Where do you think Maddox will end up this next year? |
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Title: Re: Pittsburgh will be the greatest show on grass! Post by StegRock on May 27th, 2003, 6:22pm Razz, great points! [smiley=thumbsup.gif] Let me clarify, though, that with that request above I am playing devil's advocate more than really indicating how I comprehensively evaluate a player. Notwithstanding the two examples you bring up, I am sure there are others to the contrary, i.e. that support the theory I forward, and, just generally, I think it is just as valid/valuable to consider second-half breakdowns as it is statistics for the whole season. All of that having been said, you don't win "next" year with "last" year's stats. Part of the reason I, e.g., like Brad Johnson, Matt Hasselbeck and Kelly Holcomb too for '03 deals with their respective late season "surges" and, moreover, as you particularly note, with regards to Hasselbeck and Holcomb, the fact that they did not play the whole season. BUT, that is just part of the puzzle! For the most part, I like them because of the situations they are in, the teams they are on, the players surrounding them, the coaches who coach them, the points they are at in their careers, i.e. the opportunities they have to seize the moment in '03, and like in the case of B. J., the player and man he is, i.e. a great, underrated quarterback and a standup guy to whom good things are bound to happen, etc., etc. Last year's numbers, no matter how you cut them up are only a part of the equation. As for Maddox, Razz, a guy to discuss that is much more consistent with the (lost) "topic" of this thread, I like him. Pittsburgh's so hard to read, though. I think he'll be Top 12, probably somewhere between 7 and 12, I suppose. I don't like his upswing more than the aforementioned three, though, though, at this point and probably going into the season, I would rank him above Holcomb, of course. |
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Title: Re: Pittsburgh will be the greatest show on grass! Post by Philly on May 31st, 2003, 11:47am OK... as requested, here is the list of QBs for the second half of the season. (Same scoring system mentioned above.) Vick 26 27 22 35 10 19 27 16 [182] Culpepper 7 24 25 19 17 45 9 29 [175] Hasselbeck 16 4 36 31 20 15 16 35 [173] Pennington 6 33 19 20 15 14 29 31 [167] Gannon 35 16 29 20 13 15 18 7 [153] Johnson 42 22 19 21 35 10 0 0 [149] Manning 31 20 7 13 12 23 30 12 [148] Collins 24 10 10 23 20 7 38 14 [146] McNair 16 22 6 34 19 19 15 5 [136] Green 7 14 25 20 10 24 30 3 [133] Kitna 16 22 17 20 29 12 7 9 [132] Garcia 5 25 24 3 40 15 14 1 [127] Brady 30 4 27 7 19 10 11 12 [120] Favre 26 17 6 16 16 14 6 11 [112] Blake 11 9 2 17 19 22 10 19 [109] Brooks 18 21 4 16 11 24 12 1 [107] Bledsoe 16 13 1 36 18 4 -1 19 [106] Maddox 40 8 0 0 7 12 15 19 [101] Couch 13 25 9 -3 19 23 12 0 [98] Brees 1 24 2 8 3 5 22 32 [97] Interestingly, this actually supports my argument for Kerry Collins. He is clearly a top 10 based on the 2nd half of the season... [smiley=graduate.gif] PS - Hey Steg... I tried a couple times to use the TABLE buttons above to format this better, but couldn't get it to work. If you understand it, please send me a private message to explain. Thanks! [smiley=thumbsup.gif] |
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Title: Re: Pittsburgh will be the greatest show on grass! Post by StegRock on May 31st, 2003, 6:22pm Is that Brad Johnson there at #6 and missing TWO games and Matt Hasselbeck at #3? [smiley=zenmaster.gif] [smiley=bow.gif] Okay, that's me bowin' to myself! ;D As for the tables function, Phil, [smiley=howtoput.gif] :-[ ... I, too, have not a clue ??? [smiley=lost.gif] (but, at least I'm a poet ;) )! I've tried to use it, as well, and [smiley=uh.gif] [smiley=shrug.gif] ... I can say this... shortly after the "big move" in mid-June to the more heavy-duty server, I also may upgrade to the newest version of the YaBB forum. That might help, but... [smiley=whatever.gif] Sorry! |
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