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        the Gridiron >> the Red Zone >>  My take on what's wrong with McNabb!
        
(Message started by: StegRock on Sep 14^th, 2003, 11:45pm)

Title: My take on what's wrong with McNabb!
Post by StegRock on Sep 14^th, 2003, 11:45pm

I'm probably wrong with this, but in the least what I am going to propose should conduce discussion...

Ya' know how we all saw those photos of Donovan in the preseason and were in awe about his SIZE! He looked STACKED, especially his upper-body. Now in the games, commentators are saying that he looks "stiff". See... the thing is when you [smiley=pumped.gif] , you throw off your ability to throw accurately because you're tight(er). I remember this as a big thing in basketball. Too much working out and your shot will be off, invariably. Same rule applies to baseball players and surely quarterbacks, no? Throwin' is throwin', no? Stiff is stiff, right? I just think that there might be a correlation between his "pumped-up" upper-body, his playing "tight" and his inaccuracy when throwing. [smiley=whatever.gif]

Title: Re: My take on what's wrong with McNabb!
Post by CoachH on Sep 15^th, 2003, 11:01am

I totally disagree with you, Steg. Weight training will not make you stiff. Almost always, proper weight training will increase flexibility. I cannot imagine an athlete of McNabb's caliber not having the finest and best trainers available.

Almost all NBA players use some sort of weight training to increase their stamina and overall strength to be able to compete for the duration of their season. Immediately after you lift your shot will be off, but this affect will not last.

McNabb's problem is not a physical problem, but rather a psychological problem. McNabb realizes that "he is the man" in Philly and is not handling the pressure very well with a less than stellar cast of supporting players around him.

Title: Re: My take on what's wrong with McNabb!
Post by Noey21 on Sep 15^th, 2003, 1:20pm

I agree with you Steg.
Notice over the years the bigger the athletes get the more injured the become. When your muscle gets bigger it seems to get tighter (less flexibility). If this where not the case then you would see more bodybuilders as offensive and defensive lineman.

Of cousre there are always exceptions to the rule (Anthony Mason, Ray Lewis, Bo Jackson) but I would think these people tended to have some of it in their genes.
Plus also hard work over time will help. Instead of bulking up real quickly.

Reason number 2 that McNabb is struggling is there is noone else for the defense to key on. The running backs look terrible and the receivers don't get open.

#3 Noone is intimidated by the nice new beautiful stadium. Where as everyone knew the Vet sucked and always had thoughts of injury in the back of their mind.

I hope I didn't ramble on too much. But that is my 3 cents and sense worth.

[smiley=boxer.gif]

Title: Re: My take on what's wrong with McNabb!
Post by StegRock on Sep 15^th, 2003, 1:50pm

on 09/15/03 at 13:20:12, Noey21 wrote:

I agree with you Steg.

...

Instead of bulking up real quickly.

Excellent analyses, CoachH and Noey!

...

My specific point was what Noey states, though. Gradated weight-training is a FACT of athletic life, period. I mean all these guys a liftin' weights... A LOT! We all know that! I'm just wondering if this past offseason he, well,... didn't bulk up a little too quickly/go a little overboard in his bulking up, especially his upper-body. I know you lift less during the season, but the Eagles have a bye this upcoming week; now granted I don't know the specifics, but I might be telling Donovan to stay off the weights THE WHOLE TIME. Just throw and do quarterback drills. NO WEIGHTS! I just think that he might have overdone it! [smiley=shrug.gif] I mean I've never heard of a successful QB that was an absolute force in the weightroom. The only guy I can think of is Jim Druckenmiller. Where is he now? Lifting refrigerators somewhere, I guess. He ain't throwin' footballs for sure, at least not anywhere I know. [smiley=shrug.gif]

Title: Re: My take on what's wrong with McNabb!
Post by Pakman on Sep 15^th, 2003, 2:21pm

I don't think that McNabb's problem is that he's too [smiley=pumped.gif]. Rather I think, it's a problem with his mechanics and the playcalling. Since McNabb has been in this league, he has never been a great passer. :o In fact, in the years he's been in this league, I don't think he's improved as a passer, he's gotten worse. :o :o I think that this is a combination of bad coaching and the team using a system that does not complement his strengths. Donovan is not a very accurate passer in the short game, yet that is what Andy Reid wants to do. [smiley=hmmmm.gif] If you have a stud, you should build your team around his strengths, not make him adapt to a system that enhances his weaknesses. [smiley=coach.gif] [smiley=caughtonthecan.gif]

Don't get me wrong, the coaching and the system are not an excuse for Donovan's poor play. But when you are getting blitzed every down, yet you only run the ball nine times in the first half, something is wrong. ::) [smiley=furious.gif] [smiley=fumin.gif]

Title: Re: My take on what's wrong with McNabb!
Post by BarnabyWilde on Sep 15^th, 2003, 2:49pm

Good points are being made here by every one.

I agree with Noey and Steg in regards to the bulking up too quickly. [smiley=pumped.gif] Another person who will be effected by this is David Boston. This guy got HUGE this offseason, and he is still injured. His problem is his lower legs. His ankles are always going to be injured due to all the weight they have to support. And he wants to get bigger!! [smiley=whatever.gif]
I don't get it. I'd rather be at a comfortable weight for my body size and be less apt to get injured than be big and worry about getting hurt all the time.

Title: Re: My take on what's wrong with McNabb!
Post by Philly on Sep 15^th, 2003, 3:23pm

The problem is NOT with McNabb putting on more muscle mass in the offseason. He was pretty buff coming into last season as well. He had a little bit more body fat than he did this preseason, but he hasn't been skinny since his early Syracuse days.

The problem is also not with the supporting cast. It is the same supporting cast he had last year (with a few improvements) when the Eagles were putting up an average of 26 points a game.

McNabb has never been an accurate passer. Ask any Eagle fan what McNabb's biggest problem has been since the beginning of his career and they will tell you his accuracy (especially on short passes). He does not lead a receiver well and frequently throws the ball low. Some of his problems this year have been overthrowing the ball, which frequently is the result of nerves.

I think CoachH hit the nail on the head with the leadership issue. McNabb took a different leadership role with the team in the offseason. He actually spoke out against management decisions a couple times and talked about how, with the loss of Mitchell and Douglas, he would need to take on more of a vocal leadership role. Now he feels he has to carry the team and that is a heavier gorilla on his back than his muscle-ridden upper body can handle.

The second issue, as mentioned by Pakman, is that Andy Reid is not using McNabb correctly. Reid is a VERY stubborn coach. He has his plan. And he sticks to his plan no matter what. McNabb wants to run a passing offense where short passes work much the same as running plays. McNabb has never been accurate on the short passes. But don't think for a minute that he isn't working to improve on it. He works as hard, if not harder, than any other player in the NFL both in the film room and on the practice field and in the weight room.

Maybe he isn't getting the type of coaching he needs, but keep in mind that McNabb is in just his 5th season now. Where were Elway or Favre (two QBs that McNabb is frequently compared to) in their 5th seasons??

Let's not hit the panic button and start the Koy Detmer chants just yet. The Eagles have faced two very tough defenses in their two games and are playing with a decimated defense, putting even more pressure on the offense. The Eagles have a bye this coming weekend, so let's give them a chance to fix the problems and try it against a tough Bills defense in Week 4.

Title: Re: My take on what's wrong with McNabb!
Post by Noey21 on Sep 15^th, 2003, 3:47pm

Don't get me wrong. I think he is still an awesome quarteback and a huge threat. One all defenses need to stop.

And Never and I mean ever will or should there be chants for Detmer.
Detmer on his best day is not as big of threat as McNabb.

But if the Eagle fans really want him benched....then please give him to Miami........they can package Griese and Fiedler
I am only kidding .wishful thinking [smiley=bonghit.gif]
but if McNabb went there I'd be [smiley=cheers.gif] [smiley=dancin.gif] [smiley=dancin.gif] [smiley=dancin.gif]

[smiley=havinablast.gif]
[smiley=boxer.gif]

Title: Re: My take on what's wrong with McNabb!
Post by StegRock on Sep 15^th, 2003, 5:49pm

Sheesh... Isn't it the SAME coach and basically the SAME system, with a few improvements according to Philly, that McNabb was tearing it up with, to the tune of 26 points a game as per Philly, last year? Wasn't he hittin' Staley on all kinds of short passes like a bullseye on a dartboard last year? I mean he had a very decent 58.4% completion percentage last year. ... All of that stuff, like has been said, is the SAME! The only other factor might be that the timing between McNabb and Staley is off because of Staley's holding out. But, that does not account for McNabb's overall poor play. I still have not heard anything that dissuades me from believing that his fairly suddenly "super-sized" upper-body is NOT part of the equation. [smiley=shrug.gif]

Title: Of Course...
Post by Razzak on Sep 15^th, 2003, 6:41pm

it could just be that he just did a new Campbell's Chunky Soup commercial.

I guess he wanted 2nd helpings of that curse that broke his leg last year ;D

Title: Re: My take on what's wrong with McNabb!
Post by Callie on Sep 15^th, 2003, 6:44pm

Noey hit on something, then other guys hit on other very good points. But I think Noey's comment on the new stadium may be a part of how things will get done in Philly. I heard that all the Eagles were commenting on how LOUD the new stadium was. Might mean getting used to. (We all hate it when our teams play in loud stadiums in away games. In a way, the honeymoon in the new stadium might feel like away games for a heartbeat.) Also, I remember how the Niners always had a great advantage on the old field because they knew where all the holes were. Other teams hated playing there for that reason. I think McNabb is a true stud. I think he'll shine again soon.

Title: Re: My take on what's wrong with McNabb!
Post by StegRock on Sep 15^th, 2003, 7:33pm

Title: Re: My take on what's wrong with McNabb!
Post by Philly on Sep 15^th, 2003, 8:47pm

I would love for some of the other Eagles fans to chime in here and tell everyone just how bad McNabb has ALWAYS been throwing short passes... I'm not making this stuff up...

58% completion rate is nice, unless your throwing most of those passes as high-completion short passes to a RB in the flat or a WR or TE on a slant. The WCO necessitates a completion rate higher than McNabb has had.

Let's also factor in the offensive line, which has not given McNabb very much time so far...

Title: Re: My take on what's wrong with McNabb!
Post by StegRock on Sep 15^th, 2003, 10:18pm

I don't know... I just heard during tonight's game, and you might have as well, John Madden, who I, for one, have the utmost respect for, say that Kerry Collins looks smooth and limber, he's never looked thinner. The idea was that he was equating smoothness of QB play with limberness, which ultimately is tied to being thin. I mean, obviously, not too thin. These guys gotta' be hittin' the weights. But, that kind of upper-body is just, well, unnecessary for a quarterback. Whatever, though, I'm just throwing it out there as a factor that most are not even considering. However, I don't deny A LOT of the other contentions being made herein.

Title: Re: My take on what's wrong with McNabb!
Post by bgsgfan on Sep 16^th, 2003, 12:00am

2 or 3 posts up from here, 5-on-it had the best post on this thread (in spite of the obvious homerism - which is a good thing in my opinion). Anything I said would just be reiterating his points. You need to hang out in the public Gridiron areas more, dude.

Title: Re: My take on what's wrong with McNabb!
Post by Walker Boh on Sep 16^th, 2003, 8:34am

I invested heavily in McNabb (taking him with my second pick in both the CBFL and GBRFL2 [smiley=doh.gif]) and so far I'm seriously regretting my decision. I've watched both of his games and one thing I've noticed is his complete lack of passion. The team is playing like crap, getting spanked all over the field and Donovan just looks like he doesn't know what the hell is going on. [smiley=lost.gif] This guy needs to step up and be a leader, get pissed [smiley=fumin.gif], get in someone's face [smiley=coach.gif], do something to get his team fired up! It's the same group of guys from the past couple of seasons and he was able to put up big numbers then, so why not now? Now I know Tampa and New England is a tough way to start the season, but IMO McNabb needs to stop shrugging his shoulders [smiley=shrug.gif]and scratching his head [smiley=uh.gif] and start playing with fire. [smiley=evil.gif]