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        the Gridiron >> the Red Zone >>  HUGE Trade in the GBRFL...
        
(Message started by: StegRock on Oct 3rd, 2003, 3:44pm)
Title: HUGE Trade in the GBRFL...
Post by StegRock on Oct 3rd, 2003, 3:44pm
...well, at least in size if not magnitude!

Anyway, you guys are always doing this kind of thing, so I am allowed to indulge every now and then... [smiley=awwgee.gif]

So, without further ado,...

I received - QB Kelly Holcomb, RB Warrick Dunn, RB Mike Alstott, RB Jamel White

Doug received - QB Doug Johnson, RB Duce Staley, RB Correll Buckhalter, RC Muhsin Muhammad

The GBRFL is a deep, 12-keeper league.

For (respective) rosters, go to:  http://www.fantasyfootballer.com/gbrfl/rosters.htm.

For the transactions page, go to:  http://www.fantasyfootballer.com/gbrfl/transactions.htm.

Any thoughts, my fellow Gridironing Gridironers? [smiley=gladiator.gif]
Title: Re: HUGE Trade in the GBRFL...
Post by StegRock on Oct 3rd, 2003, 4:36pm
KJ, I gotta' be honest with you,...  I like that you don't like it.  It's a good indicator to me that the trade is probably good.  It seems that we... you often see things quite "differently".
Title: Re: HUGE Trade in the GBRFL...
Post by StegRock on Oct 3rd, 2003, 6:40pm
Okay, I'll go again...


on 10/03/03 at 16:29:27, Keyshawn Johnson 76yards wrote:
I honestly don't think Holcomb will be starting for the rest of the season, if Couch performs decently and does not get injured.


What you "believe" regarding Holcomb is contrary to all the available evidence.  Davis has made it clear that Holcomb will reassume his role as starter once he's healthy, which will probably be next week.  He will back up Couch this week, in fact.  And, your assertion regarding Couch requires a HUGE leap of faith.  There is no reason to believe he will play "decently".  He hasn't yet.  Are you not aware of his pathetic performance in a LOSS to the Bengals last week?

That's all I'm going to say.  I don't want to go showing too many of my cards here.
Title: Re: HUGE Trade in the GBRFL...
Post by Keyshawn Johnson 76yards on Oct 3rd, 2003, 7:26pm
Holcomb > Johnson
Staley > Dunn
Alstott = Buckhalter
Muhammad > White
Title: pass.UGE Trade in the GBRFL...
Post by DirkDiggler on Oct 3rd, 2003, 7:58pm

on 10/03/03 at 18:40:22, StegRock wrote:
 There is no reason to believe he will play "decently".  He hasn't yet.  Are you not aware of his pathetic performance in a LOSS to the Bengals last week?




             
T. Couch   23/36    280yds  2TD  1 INT

I am not sure about everyone else on this board, but I don't think I would call those "pathetic" numbers.  I would actually call those good stats.  If you watched the game, he actually played well.  He made one mistake at the end of the game by throwing that interception.

I am not sure why you think he won't play "decently."  He had  a good performance last week and is playing Pittsburgh this week who hasn't been stellar in the defense department by any means.

 His numbers could have been better last week if his receivers had not dropped someballs.  A play before the interception Morgan dropped a ball which was an easy first down.  His o-line was horrible!!  

And finally, never believe what Butch Davis says.......
Title: Re: pass.UGE Trade in the GBRFL...
Post by Keyshawn Johnson 76yards on Oct 3rd, 2003, 8:10pm

on 10/03/03 at 19:58:48, DirkDiggler wrote:
             
T. Couch   23/36    280yds  2TD  1 INT

I am not sure about everyone else on this board, but I don't think I would call those "pathetic" numbers.  I would actually call those good stats.  If you watched the game, he actually played well.  He made one mistake at the end of the game by throwing that interception.

I am not sure why you think he won't play "decently."  He had  a good performance last week and is playing Pittsburgh this week who hasn't been stellar in the defense department by any means.

 His numbers could have been better last week if his receivers had not dropped someballs.  A play before the interception Morgan dropped a ball which was an easy first down.  His o-line was horrible!!  

And finally, never believe what Butch Davis says.......


Looks like my "different" way of viewing things is not so "different," eh?
Title: Re: HUGE Trade in the GBRFL...
Post by StegRock on Oct 3rd, 2003, 8:57pm

on 10/03/03 at 19:22:57, Keyshawn Johnson 76yards wrote:
For some reason though, that 'different' view of seeing things. Always works out exceptionally well for me...


Oh, please, KJ, give me a break!  "Always works out exceptionally well for me"...  What is that supposed to mean?  In what context am I supposed to put that?  FourTwoOh's post-season tournament last year!?  That didn't work out so well for ya', and above you did say "always".  I mean that's the only thing "fantasy-oriented" that I've ever gone up against you in.

As for the trade, I ultimately think it is a pretty even deal.  But, I don't know what kind of hope you are holding out for Muhammad.  At this point in his career, I think we know what little he is capable of.  Whereas, William Green has not looked that good this season and, in any case, Jamel White will be an interesting guy to have this offseason.  And, as far as ranking Staley and Buckhalter, right now it is impossible.  Who knows what's going to happen with those guys?  It's a "fantasy-abyssmal" situation for this year and I am glad to be out of it.  That having been said, having both of those guys this offseason is not at all a bad thing.  That could work out really well for Doug.
Title: Re: HUGE Trade in the GBRFL...
Post by StegRock on Oct 4th, 2003, 1:42pm

on 10/04/03 at 11:30:49, Keyshawn Johnson 76yards wrote:
If all I'm going to get is a sarcastically ignorant answer for giving my opinion on a trade, then I'll pass on replying at all next time.


What you see as sarcastically ignorant, I see as frankly facetious. ;)


Quote:
Yes, my way of looking at things "differently" HAS worked out well for me. You base your assumption on ONE, yes ONE, silly little game. I'm fairing quite well in the challenge going on currently which only FOUR of us are participating, which isn't all that many and a bit dissapointing.  I won 5 out of 8 leagues I was in last season, which isn't all that bad.

Believe it, or not, I've predicted the Patriots and Bucs to win it all before the playoffs even had commenced(if you lived in my town, you'd know, I wiped my friends clean making bets on both teams, respectively.)

You asked for a response, you got one.


Tell me about something I can substantiate and that is fantasy-oriented, not just picking games.  Frankly speaking, I am NOT very good at picking games, period.  If you are a bettor, don't go by me.  But, forecasting the fantasy value of players, that, I am quite good at, and I am a particularly savvy trader (ask anybody I play with, all of whom are right here).

Bottom line, I don't really care where you stand, really, KJ. ;) [smiley=hmmmm.gif] It's about your presentation...  Have I noticed over the time you've been here a tendency to post one-liners that "go against" the tide of a (fairly elaborate) discussion that is going on (and evidently in a certain direction) in a "dare to be different" kind of way and be flat-out wrong with your little assertion, but never have it revisited because the threads just get lost?  YES!  Do I think that is because you are an FF moron?  NO!  Do I think that is due to somewhat of a knee-jerk dare-to-be-different attitude and subsequent lack of substance of those one-liners in those instances, i.e. NOT ALL THE TIME (don't read me wrong here, kiddo), as opposed to a well-thought-out argument predicated on sound premises?  YES!  Is it okay to be different?  Sure.  Is it okay to just be different?  Not really.

Finally, with regards to this thread, do I think you rushed to judgment without considering at least 50% of the grounds that need to be covered, i.e. that regard context, and make your assertions in one-line fashion without backing them up as though they were already fact?  YES!  And, moreover, are there doubts about any of your one-line assertions that beg for more thorough explanation?  DEFINITELY, 4 of the 6 of your one-line conclusions are absolutely debatable,... and that is where my real beef lies (well, not exactly,... ;) it actually lies more to the right).  You know how I am a stickler for substance, KJ.  Nothing new there!  It's just that if this trade works out for me, which it very well may, your one-line incorrect "conclusions" will once again get lost in the shuffle.  If you "happen to" be correct, I guess they still will be, but the key words there are "happen to".  Without backing up your "dare to be different" opinions, they have little value, especially to the rest of us.  Ultimately, without getting your feathers all in a ruffle, if you read between the lines, what I am saying is "I'd like to hear you out," i.e. hear out the reasoning behind your assertions so they can be meaningfully discussed. [smiley=shrug.gif] [smiley=letsmakeup.gif]


Quote:
I don't appreciate shit like that...


And, you think "everything" you do is "appreciated", KJ? ;)
Title: Re: HUGE Trade in the GBRFL...
Post by DOLFAN on Oct 4th, 2003, 10:35pm
KJ, don't bash me please. I, really not in the mood.
I will say this though. I think this is a deal favors Stegey more for 2 reasons:
1) He dumps a filler QB fro one with upside. Holcomb is becoming a name, not good or bad, but a "name", and Couch will prolly be leaving CLE at yrs end. They will go in a diff direction at QB. Too bad I think he has more skills overall, just not showing it all on the field. Couch will be starting somewhere else next year.
2) Stegey finally got out of the RBBC of Philly. Which he acquired by dealing Garner away. He gets 3 Rbs that are better bets any given week than Staley and Buckhalter, why because THEY are guiarenteed to get SOME action. Not even Andy Reid knows who will get the damn ball up there. Plus it gives him more trading options later and solid #3 RB depth.  
FLIP SIDE:
1)Doug gets rid of a QB that may lose his job soon...Don't believe Davis or Martz....injured QBs are not sure bets when they get back, just ask Warner and Trent Green. Hell he wanted a 1st rounder and Lamar Gordon from me for Holcomb.
2) Dougs gets rid of 3-#3 Rbs and gets Staley-Free Agent next year and Buck should be long term upgrade. Johnson is STILL a STARTER a few more weeks. Mushin is a throw in since Doug has many more productive and younger WRs on his squad. I doubt Mushin evere starts for him this year is what i mean here.
Just my objective view of how it helps/hurts both teams. Slam away, I really could care less about responses.
Title: Re: HUGE Trade in the GBRFL...
Post by StegRock on Oct 4th, 2003, 10:43pm
That's a fairly accurate assessment, DF, and "pithy", at any rate! [smiley=bow.gif] You could have come to the conclusion that the trade "slightly" sided with Doug, actually.  Ultimately, it is a fairly close trade all in all, and that was captured in your write-up!
Title: Re: HUGE Trade in the GBRFL...
Post by DirkDiggler on Oct 4th, 2003, 11:40pm

on 10/04/03 at 22:43:43, StegRock wrote:
That's a fairly accurate assessment, DF, and "pithy", at any rate! [smiley=bow.gif] You could have come to the conclusion that the trade "slightly" sided with Doug, actually.  Ultimately, it is a fairly close trade all in all, and that was captured in your write-up!


Yes...good insight Dolfan.  

And, I agree, very FAIR trade.  Short term favors Steggy.  Long term I think Doug gets better "potential" in the trade.
Title: Re: HUGE Trade in the GBRFL...
Post by StegRock on Oct 5th, 2003, 12:34am

on 10/04/03 at 23:54:46, Keyshawn Johnson 76yards wrote:
Sometimes, I am "different" just for laughs. This is when everyone seems to agree at the matter at hand, then I'll jump in saying the opposite just for kicks.


What a surprise!


Quote:
You may consider those "1-liners" that I dropped you on this thread, but if you want me to back them up with substantiated statistics, I'll be gladly to do so. Though, I feel I don't need to back up jackshit, it's fairly obvious as is.


Uhhhh,... okay,... whatever!


Quote:
I don't go around boasting myself to be "The Greatest Fantasy Football Player of All- Time."


You put the part above in "quotes" becaaaaause...


Quote:
By no means, am I a genious, nor do I intend to come off  thinking that I am genious.


But, above you state, "Though, I feel I don't need to back up jackshit, it's fairly obvious as is."  That sounds like genius-level knowledge to me.  It all surely isn't obvious to me.


Quote:
For whatever reason, you two have both come off as, exuse my french, assholes.


Now we'll start calling people names.  In the relative spectrum of things, I, for one, surely deserve that, huh?  Especially since I called you a name...  Oh, wait a minute, no I didn't!
Title: Re: HUGE Trade in the GBRFL...
Post by StegRock on Oct 5th, 2003, 11:37am

on 10/04/03 at 11:30:49, Keyshawn Johnson 76yards wrote:
Yes, my way of looking at things "differently" HAS worked out well for me. You base your assumption on ONE, yes ONE, silly little game. I'm fairing quite well in the challenge going on currently which only FOUR of us are participating, which isn't all that many and a bit dissapointing.  I won 5 out of 8 leagues I was in last season, which isn't all that bad.


So, how ya' doin' in your league run from here, KJ?  ...  Just a toooooouch tendentious! ;)
Title: Re: HUGE Trade in the GBRFL...
Post by DB on Oct 5th, 2003, 12:46pm

Quote:
don't bash me please. I, really not in the mood


If anyone cared about your mood before bashing you, the GBRFL would not be what it is today, DD. [smiley=awwgee.gif]

As for the draft, the think the ultimate edge will depend on whether Holcomb starts next week and beyond.  I have a feeling that offense will continue to get better and the QB that leads it will be seen as the spark.  If its Holcomb, then the verbose Stegeman will have a good #2-3.  If not, Dougie has Johnson for 3 more weeks or so and the possibility of the Philly scrubs panning out, yeah right!

Finally, as a "different" thinker sometimes, I am interesting in seeing KJ's posts which are referred to herein, but I can't seem to find?  I want to read this from the beginning.  Did he bash Steggie's deal or what?
Title: If anyone cared abouRe: HUGE Trade in the GBRFL...
Post by DB on Oct 5th, 2003, 12:48pm
Ooops


Quote:
If anyone cared about your mood before bashing you, the GBRFL would not be what it is today, DD.  


I meant DF, not DD.  All you southerners look alike you know. [smiley=elvis.gif]
Title: Re: HUGE Trade in the GBRFL...
Post by StegRock on Oct 5th, 2003, 12:52pm

on 10/05/03 at 12:46:46, DB wrote:
Finally, as a "different" thinker sometimes, I am interesting in seeing KJ's posts which are referred to herein, but I can't seem to find?  I want to read this from the beginning.  Did he bash Steggie's deal or what?


Not really, Dave, though he "definitely" thought Doug got the better end of it!  The problem (for me) was that he did not back up his "dubious" assertions.  He just stated them as fact, going as far as to say that they were "obvious" and did not need to be backed up. ::) But, those posts are gone now. :-/
Title: Re: HUGE Trade in the GBRFL...
Post by Keyshawn Johnson 76yards on Oct 5th, 2003, 5:19pm

on 10/05/03 at 12:52:30, StegRock wrote:
Not really, Dave, though he "definitely" thought Doug got the better end of it!  The problem (for me) was that he did not back up his "dubious" assertions.  He just stated them as fact, going as far as to say that they were "obvious" and did not need to be backed up. ::) But, those posts are gone now. :-/


I deleted them because I felt that the arguement here was pointless.

I didn't entirely bash Steg's deal, I merely said I think Doug had the better deal, that is when Steg stated and not in these words(my take on it), "Your opinion is not respectable because you are always a "different" thinker."
Title: Re: HUGE Trade in the GBRFL...
Post by DirkDiggler on Oct 5th, 2003, 9:37pm
Man--

Looks like Tim Couch is having another "decent" game.  

16/17  169 yards      2 TD    0 Int

Oh yea....one rushing TD too!!

and it is only half time.  
Title: Re: HUGE Trade in the GBRFL...
Post by StegRock on Oct 5th, 2003, 10:08pm
And Kelly Holcomb will be back in the starting lineup next week or the week after. [smiley=fingerscrossed.gif] Ultimately, Pittsburgh's pass D blows! [smiley=gettinridden.gif] That having been said, you are kicking my ass this week, and I forgot to tell you that I thought your analysis of my trade with Doug was fair, thorough and accurate. [smiley=bow.gif]
Title: Re: HUGE Trade in the GBRFL...
Post by DOLFAN on Oct 6th, 2003, 9:05pm
Why did you delete your post KJ? Afraid to stand behind what you wrote? It's good to see that you have so much civiction in what you write that you don't want anybody to read it after you realize that it was getting bashed. Or worse yet, that your statements had no merits.
At least we see where you stand now...not behind your words. Oops, sorry you stand behind your deleted words. I see it clearly now.
Title: Re: HUGE Trade in the GBRFL...
Post by StegRock on Oct 19th, 2003, 3:50pm
[smiley=whistle.gif]

...

[smiley=wave.gif] , KJ 76.

A serving of crow, perhaps?!?!
Title: Re: HUGE Trade in the GBRFL...
Post by DOLFAN on Oct 19th, 2003, 11:33pm
Broken leg and all Holcomb has come back to life... until he breaks another leg or has a few crappy games. They should just start Kelly at home and Couch away.
Looks like Kelly is DA man.


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