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        the Gridiron >> the Red Zone >>  Browns - William Green Thread
        
(Message started by: DOLFAN on Nov 3rd, 2003, 7:08pm)
Title: Browns - William Green Thread
Post by DOLFAN on Nov 3rd, 2003, 7:08pm
[smiley=annoyed.gif]Wm Green suspended after arrest.
I hate this shit!!! A team makes him guilty before proven so!! That pisses me off more than anything else. Watch, next they will put him on IR...like DET did to James Stewart...even if the injury is not season ending. PRICKS!!! [smiley=flipa.gif]

http://www.canada.com/sports/football/story.html?id=00C73688-0E74-4279-A779-19C6C199390A
Title: Re: Browns - Green Suspended/Davis Promoted
Post by StegRock on Nov 3rd, 2003, 10:23pm
Here is a piece from "the Gridiron Newsstand" besides the (run-of-the-mill) AP article.  It also discusses the promotion of Andre Davis over Kevin Johnson:

http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news_room/news/arts/2360.0.html.

Terrible news for Green owners... [smiley=no.gif] Great news for those who have held on to Davis... [smiley=yes.gif]
Title: Re: Browns - Green Suspended/Davis Promoted
Post by DC_Disaster on Nov 4th, 2003, 7:53am
Does this mean  James Jackson gets the start for Green
Title: Re: Browns - Green Suspended/Davis Promoted
Post by Philly on Nov 4th, 2003, 11:29am
I haven't looked for the official word, but Jackson got the start in the last game and played pretty well.  I can't imagine they'd do it different this time.
Title: Re: Browns - Green Suspended/Davis Promoted
Post by StegRock on Nov 11th, 2003, 5:21pm
Isn't this stuff on "The REAL Feed" kind of bullshit given the recent suspension of Mike Anderson?  ...

NFLPA sides with Green over suspension
The Sports Network: NFL (11.11.2003 17:21)

Union Slams Suspension of Browns' Green
AP Sports (11.11.2003 14:48)
The NFL Players Association says the Cleveland Browns violated the collective bargaining agreement by suspending running back William Green for his arrest on charges of drunken driving and marijuana possession.

Cleveland Browns' suspension of running back William Green questioned
FaceOff: Football (11.11.2003 15:10)
BEREA, Ohio (AP) - The NFL Players' Association says the Cleveland Browns violated the collective bargaining agreement by suspending running back William Green for his arrest on charges of drunken driving and marijuana possession.

Is it me or does this all sound just a little "double-standardish"?
Title: Re: Browns - Green Suspended/Davis Promoted
Post by DirkDiggler on Nov 11th, 2003, 5:43pm

on 11/11/03 at 17:21:13, StegRock wrote:
Isn't this stuff on "The REAL Feed" kind of bullshit given the recent suspension of Mike Anderson?  ...

NFLPA sides with Green over suspension
The Sports Network: NFL (11.11.2003 17:21)

Union Slams Suspension of Browns' Green
AP Sports (11.11.2003 14:48)
The NFL Players Association says the Cleveland Browns violated the collective bargaining agreement by suspending running back William Green for his arrest on charges of drunken driving and marijuana possession.

Cleveland Browns' suspension of running back William Green questioned
FaceOff: Football (11.11.2003 15:10)
BEREA, Ohio (AP) - The NFL Players' Association says the Cleveland Browns violated the collective bargaining agreement by suspending running back William Green for his arrest on charges of drunken driving and marijuana possession.

Is it me or does this all sound just a little "double-standardish"?


Not double standard at all .  

Anderson tested positive for drugs.  His SECOND TIME.  He was found guilty by the league.

Willie Green was NOT found guilty.  He was found in leery circumstances, but not legally guilty.  

It is like the Jets coach waiting until Abraham pleaded guilty to suspend him for the DUI.  He did not due it until he was guilty in a court of law.  
Title: Re: Browns - Green Suspended/Davis Promoted
Post by Callie on Nov 11th, 2003, 7:01pm
The NFL is trying way hard to be politically correct.  Gotta keep the kids allowed to watch on the weekend.  Keep 'im as a hero.

The big double standard is the deflection of all blame to the players when the league honchos started getting heat.  Politics as usual.
Title: Re: Browns - Green Suspended/Davis Promoted
Post by StegRock on Nov 12th, 2003, 1:02am

on 11/11/03 at 17:43:11, DirkDiggler wrote:
Not double standard at all .  

Anderson tested positive for drugs.  His SECOND TIME.  He was found guilty by the league.

Willie Green was NOT found guilty.  He was found in leery circumstances, but not legally guilty.


Well, possession of an illegal drug and drunk driving are against the law, and I did say, "double-standardish."  Putting yourself in leery circumstances usually leads to finding yourself in bad circumstances.  Maybe if someone had the balls to suspend that running back whatever his first name is Smith back with the Bengals, he would not have cost them that Super Bowl.  It's like Buddy Ryan's having the balls to show Cris Carter the tough love he needed and cutting his ass.  Look at the direction Cris Carter went in after that.  It's just that this kid-glove act of splitting hairs and justifying gets these guys nowhere, substantively, except out of trouble this time and making them feel like they weren't wrong, which just feeds that ego EVEN MORE.  Look, don't get me wrong.  The marijuana debate is another issue.  I for one think it should be treated in our society like alcohol as I have stated before.  But, it isn't.  That's the reality.  But, in any case, just hypothetically substitute cocaine or heroin in, as my point is one of principle, not minutiae.  These guys make big bucks and they need to stop whining when they get caught or behave childishly.  They need to learn accountability and, well, grow up.  The NFLPA is starting to remind me of the ACLU.
Title: Re: Browns - Green Suspended/Davis Promoted
Post by Philly on Nov 12th, 2003, 9:49am
I think the point here is that the team does not have the authority to suspend a player under the substance abuse policy.  Only the league can do that.  Furthermore, the team suspended Green and didn't even notify the league that it was doing so.

Ultimately, the NFLPA exists to protect the rights of the players.  Sure, the circumstances may indicate that this is a battle not worth fighting, but if the NFLPA was to ignore it, then what is the point of the organization?
Title: Re: Browns - Green Suspended/Davis Promoted
Post by StegRock on Nov 12th, 2003, 12:58pm
Philly, I grok what you're sayin'.  And, I don't know the details of all this...  But, can't a team suspend a player for whatever they want?  And, wouldn't illegal drug possession and driving under the influence fall under the category of whatever they want?  Teams can cut players however they want; they surely should be able to suspend them, a lesser punishment, so to speak, however they want.  I mean players, ultimately, are employees.

In any event, what does it mean to say that "the Browns violated the collective bargaining agreement by suspending Green"?  What stipulation of that agreement did they violate, the one that says "you have to let us play, and moreover pay us to play, until we are too high and incapacitated and just can't play"?  Or, like everything anymore, is this just a loophole thing?  Whether or not Butch Davis and the Browns followed precise procedure or not, I don't know.  But, I commend them, in this morally castrated America we live in today, for taking some sort of stand and trying to make a statement to this guy to get on the right track, moreover, before he goes off track, which, I digress, will cause him to never get on track or, I digress again, untracked, a word the usage of which I still am not sure I totally get. [smiley=lost.gif]
Title: Re: Browns - Green Suspended/Davis Promoted
Post by Philly on Nov 12th, 2003, 1:18pm

on 11/12/03 at 12:58:48, StegRock wrote:
Philly, I grok what you're sayin'.  And, I don't know the details of all this...  But, can't a team suspend a player for whatever they want?
And, wouldn't illegal drug possession and driving under the influence fall under the category of whatever they want?

I don't have a copy of the CBA in front of me, so this is just speculation...  If Green is charged AND convicted of the offense, then the NFL has specific guidelines to follow regarding suspensions, testing, treatment, etc.  I think the Browns suspension of Green (can we get any more colorful?) could place him in a double-jeopardy situation.


Quote:
Teams can cut players however they want; they surely should be able to suspend them, a lesser punishment, so to speak, however they want.  I mean players, ultimately, are employees.

Employees that have a union and employees (with employers) who have agreed to work within the guidelines of the CBA, a document both parties have agreed to.  (Furthermore, a document which is certainly more favorable to the owners than the players, based on similar agreements in other sports.)


Quote:
In any event, what does it mean to say that "the Browns violated the collective bargaining agreement by suspending Green"?  What stipulation of that agreement did they violate, the one that says "you have to let us play, and moreover pay us to play, until we are too high and incapacitated and just can't play"?  Or, like everything anymore, is this just a loophole thing?  Whether or not Butch Davis and the Browns followed precise procedure or not, I don't know.  But, I commend them, in this morally castrated America we live in today, for taking some sort of stand and trying to make a statement to this guy to get on the right track, moreover, before he goes off track, which, I digress, will cause him to never get on track or, I digress again, untracked, a word the usage of which I still am not sure I totally get. [smiley=lost.gif]

I fully agree that morally they did the right thing, but ethically, they probably are in some hot water because the teams agreed to a procedure that they are choosing not to follow now?

Also, I too have always wondered about the track... Basically, a player who needs to get back "on track" is the same as a player who needs to get "untracked"???  I don't quite get untracked, so I don't use it.
Title: Re: Browns - Green Suspended/Davis Promoted
Post by StegRock on Nov 13th, 2003, 2:20am
Well, back to the real topic here...  How about this tidbit from "The REAL Feed"?  ...

Browns RB Green's status uncertain
NFL.com (12.11.2003 23:08)
Running back William Green was suspended for Cleveland's game in Week 10, and Browns coach Butch Davis refused to say if he would play in Week 11.

Boy o' boy, huh?
Title: Re: Browns - Green Suspended/Davis Promoted
Post by DirkDiggler on Nov 13th, 2003, 8:02am

on 11/13/03 at 02:20:49, StegRock wrote:
Well, back to the real topic here...  How about this tidbit from "The REAL Feed"?  ...

Browns RB Green's status uncertain
NFL.com (12.11.2003 23:08)
Running back William Green was suspended for Cleveland's game in Week 10, and Browns coach Butch Davis refused to say if he would play in Week 11.

Boy o' boy, huh?


OK, Butch Davis is a fantasy players nightmare.  Unbelievable.  I wish he would get fired and go back to the college ranks.
Title: Re: Browns - Green Suspended/Davis Promoted
Post by StegRock on Nov 13th, 2003, 6:41pm
WOW!  ALL this from "The REAL Feed":

NFL suspends Cleveland Browns running back William Green for four games
FaceOff: Football (13.11.2003 17:43)
BEREA, Ohio (AP) - Browns running back William Green was suspended for four games by the NFL on Thursday for violating the league's substance abuse policy.
 
NFL piles onto Green
USA Today: Sports (13.11.2003 17:32)
BEREA, Ohio -Browns running back William Green was suspended for four games by the NFL on Thursday for violating the league's substance abuse policy. The Browns said the violation involved the use of ...
 
Cleveland RB Green suspended four games by NFL
NFL.com (13.11.2003 17:32)
Cleveland Browns running back William Green was suspended four games by the NFL after failing to comply with the league's drug policy.
 
Browns' RB William Green Suspended
AP Sports (13.11.2003 17:02)
Browns running back William Green was suspended for four games by the NFL on Thursday for violating the league's substance abuse policy.

BIG NEWS!
Title: Re: Browns - William Green Thread
Post by StegRock on Nov 19th, 2003, 5:06pm
Dudes, what is up with this spaz?  Here's what's on "The REAL Feed (http://www.fantasyfootballer.com/newsstand.htm)":

Browns RB Green suffers knife wound
The Sports Network: NFL (19.11.2003 15:49)

Browns RB Green hospitalized with knife wound
NFL.com (19.11.2003 15:10)
Cleveland running back William Green, currently serving a four-game suspension, suffered a knife wound to his side.

Here's the AP report from one of the local dailies available on "the Gridiron Newsstand (http://www.fantasyfootballer.com/newsstand.htm)":

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index_story.ssf?/sports/more/ap/s19green.html.

Dudes, how much is this guy's value plummeting? [smiley=no.gif]
Title: Re: Browns - William Green Thread
Post by Philly on Nov 19th, 2003, 5:09pm
Not only is his stock plummeting... Lee Suggs (he of 5 NFL carries for 5 NFL yards) should see his stock rising greatly as a result of this.
Title: Re: Browns - William Green Thread
Post by #1 Steelers Fan on Nov 19th, 2003, 5:12pm
I think Green might be trying to kill himself or something!
Title: Re: Browns - William Green Thread
Post by DirkDiggler on Nov 19th, 2003, 5:14pm

on 11/19/03 at 17:09:10, Philly wrote:
Not only is his stock plummeting... Lee Suggs (he of 5 NFL carries for 5 NFL yards) should see his stock rising greatly as a result of this.



I don't think Suggs will see much action this year.  Everything I have read says the Browns are impressed with James Jackson.  He did not have the greatest yards per carry this past week, but they like his ability to find the goalline.  But I guess only time will tell.
Title: Re: Browns - William Green Thread
Post by Philly on Nov 19th, 2003, 5:27pm

on 11/19/03 at 17:14:18, DirkDiggler wrote:
I don't think Suggs will see much action this year.  Everything I have read says the Browns are impressed with James Jackson.  He did not have the greatest yards per carry this past week, but they like his ability to find the goalline.  But I guess only time will tell.


I should have put that caveat on the post.  I don't see his stock rising this year as I think the Browns will be content to ride James Jackson until game 16, but I imagine Suggs will grab some carries here and there.

Ultimately, Suggs could be THE guy next year in Brownie land.  Jackson has been in Cleveland for more than a couple years and hasn't been able to hold the starting job.  I like Jackson, but who knows what Butch Davis is thinking.
Title: Re: Browns - William Green Thread
Post by steelkings on Nov 19th, 2003, 8:53pm
I have 2 thoughts

1) ESPN's Playmakers series seems more realistic all the time.

2) Micheal Jackson (hee hee!) molested William Green? It's all such a blurr. ?.?.?
Title: Re: Browns - William Green Thread
Post by DirkDiggler on Nov 21st, 2003, 5:52pm
It keeps getting worse and worse for Mr Green.  When the cops searched his house after the stabbing, they found the knife in the a kitchen cabinet.

The ALSO found pot in FOUR seperate locations.  Doh!!!

So lets play clue:

Mr Green was stabbed by Ms Gray in the kitchen with the knife.   ;D
Title: Re: Browns - William Green Thread
Post by Callie on Nov 21st, 2003, 5:57pm
....in the abdomen/side/back while he was eating a Cheeseburger and drinking two beers in a bar....
Title: Re: Browns - William Green Thread
Post by StegRock on Nov 22nd, 2003, 2:29pm
As Willie's World Turns...  Here's the LATEST on "The REAL Feed (http://www.fantasyfootballer.com/newsstand.htm)":

Pot found in Green home
ESPN: NFL (22.11.2003 12:08)
Police find marijuana, steak knife WESTLAKE, Ohio -- Police found a steak knife stuck in a kitchen cabinet and marijuana while searching the home of Cleveland Browns running back William Green, whose fiancee has been accused of stabbing him in the back. Green, currently suspended by the NFL for violating the league's substance abuse program, was hospitalized Wednesday after being cut in his home. Asia Gray, Green's girlfriend since high school and the mother of his two daughters, is charged with felonious...
Title: Re: Browns - William Green Thread
Post by StegRock on Dec 2nd, 2003, 1:55pm
I never was sold on this guy and now this...

...  The latest from "The REAL Feed" on this guy's worsening situation:

Green's future with Browns remains in doubt
ESPN: NFL (01.12.2003 19:26)
RB does not return after suspension BEREA, Ohio -- Suspended running back William Green did not return to the Cleveland Browns on Monday, further clouding his future with the team. Green was banned by the NFL for four games on Nov. 13 for violating the league's substance abuse program. The 23-year-old was eligible to rejoin the Browns on Monday. However, the second-year back, whose fiancee has been accused of stabbing him in the back, was not at the club's training facility. The Browns said they were awaiting...

Here is ALL the local corroboration from "the Gridiron Newsstand":

http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news_room/news/arts/2419.0.html;

http://www.ohio.com/mld/ohio/sports/football/nfl/cleveland_browns/7393020.htm;

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/sports/1070361192184140.xml;

http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=10598864&BRD=1699&PAG=461&dept_id=46370&rfi=6.

Does this guy even have a future? :-/ I am starting to think not, especially from a fantasy football perspective.


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