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Title: rb worries... Post by prm on Aug 18th, 2004, 7:41pm i know you're getting sick of fielding jamal lewis questions - from me - but today's news was a little more concerning for people who aren't involved in law enforcement or the judicial system...after jamal & mcallister - i have duckett / d. foster / westbrook...question is: am i ok - or do i need to have my finger on the trigger for someone else - (unfortunately yet to be determined in many cases) - like Q. griffin (still avail in my league), m. pittman (who, if he can stay out of trouble, i think, is better than garner), t. wheatly (gasp, i don't want to think about it), c. brown (don't like the titans - but a starter is a starter now), or any good impressions on an under the radar guy that may still be avail...if you tell me not to worry about jamal again - and i got the impression MORT didn't seem worried - i'll stop asking rb questions and move on...thanks again, prm... |
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Title: Re: rb worries... Post by junkyardjake on Aug 18th, 2004, 8:13pm Hey prm, Dude, Grab Chris Brown immediately ! Q. Griffin is not a bad option either, but Brown should have been drafted. (Philly also seems to like T. Wheatley). JYJ :^) |
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Title: Re: rb worries... Post by Philly on Aug 18th, 2004, 9:32pm If you only start two RBs. then you should be fine with Westbrook and Foster/Duckett as backups. The trial should take no more than two weeks and the team is expecting to lose Lewis for a game or two at most (assuming the verdict is favorable). Brown is a starter with a decent offense. Wheatley will start with a solid offensive line and experienced QBs and a run-loving coach. So I would take either of them over Foster and Duckett right now regardless of the J-Lew sitch. |
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Title: Re: rb worries... Post by StegRock on Aug 18th, 2004, 10:17pm I agree with Jake and Phil. I do have to beg to differ with some of your perceptions, though, prm. Chris Brown is a DEFINITE get, like Jake suggests. Though I like Brian Westbrook (have him in the GBRFL), T.J. Duckett and DeShaun Foster, I would take Brown over all of them. Michael Pittman is not better than Charlie Garner. I wouldn't be surprised with the litany of running backs they have in Tampa if Pittman doesn't make final cuts. You list Quentin Griffin first. I don't know if that means you like him most of the four you listed. If you do, dispel that notion now. Garrison Hearst, who led them in RB production in the Broncos second preseason game with 10 touches for 52 yards to Griffin's 9 for 44 and cannot be discounted, didn't play in the Hall of Fame Game and neither did Cecil Sapp, which put Griffin squarely in the limelight. And, all of a sudden fantasy footballers went gaga. Ultimately, all of those guys, the aforementioned and Mike Anderson and Ahmaad Galloway as well, have looked sharp during this preseason. And, in any event, Hearst is going to get his. This has RBBC written ALL over it, and I didn't even mention Tatum Bell. If you are on the Griffin bandwagon, get off it now before you have to jump off. Tyrone Wheatley, who you don't want to think about, is a solid pickup right now. He fits Norv Turner's offense better than any of the others. He may not last the entire season because of his age and an injury or the team's desire to give a young guy a shot if they are out of the running, but he'll come out of the gate well. I would rank the running backs in question here for this season as follows: 1) Brown, a slightly distant 2) Westbrook, 3) Wheatley, a fairly distant 4) Duckett, 5) Griffin, 6) Foster Good luck, in any event, prm! [smiley=shamrock.gif] |
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Title: Re: rb worries... Post by Philly on Aug 18th, 2004, 10:29pm I agree with the order that Steg provided. I fully expect Griffin to be spent by the time the J-Lew trial starts (if it isn't delayed), however, I think that Steg writes him off too quickly. While I agree that Hearst will get some yards/TDs early in the season, I think that Griffin will be the go-to guy for the first 6-8 games. Saying that Griffin should not be considered legit because Hearst had one more carry and about 0.2 yards more per carry than Griffin is silly. We saw what Griff was capable of late last season and he is starting off well (albeit in preseason) this year. If you were in need of a #2 guy for the first half of the season, then you could do a lot worse than Griffin. But the concern with him is his durability (which has no basis other than his size, not any injury precedent that I am aware of) and the desire of the coaching staff to get Tatum Bell into the lineup. |
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Title: Re: rb worries... Post by StegRock on Aug 18th, 2004, 10:38pm on 08/18/04 at 22:29:09, Philly wrote:
That's not what I am saying, though. My point was just more that Griffin, who everybody was going gaga over after their first preseason game in which Hearst did not even play, wasn't even the leading rusher or RB-producer in their second preseason game. I wasn't focusing on the difference, just the fact itself. Quote:
A #2... top 20 to 24... :-/ I would say a #3. [smiley=shrug.gif] |
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Title: Re: rb worries... Post by Philly on Aug 19th, 2004, 8:57am on 08/18/04 at 22:38:27, StegRock wrote:
People were going gaga over Griffin at the end of the 2003 season and once again once Clinton Portis was traded, so it isn't a new phenomenon that just occurred after a pre-season showing. |
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Title: Re: rb worries... Post by StegRock on Aug 19th, 2004, 1:07pm I don't really remember it that way... I remember some Dominic Rhodes-like solid-backup drool for Griffin, not Edgerrin James-esque tote-the-rock-every-down starter saliva rivers... Anyway, I guess it just depends on the novices you're playing with. [smiley=shrug.gif] ... [smiley=tonguin.gif] |
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Title: Re: rb worries... Post by prm on Aug 19th, 2004, 8:33pm nice thread...i'm glad i was able to get it started...a couple of points...first, i listed q.g. first because i had just read an article that mentioned him...no specific order...second, i appreciate stegrock's disagreement with me on pittman - but if he doesn't make the cut - it'll be more because of distraction than ability (i did not say potential - ..."a name for something you're not using")...were he focused (etherial, subjective, etc) - i would rather have a player of his ilk than garner...that being said there's no way to account for those things i mentioned - i just think he's tougher - and i'm old school...i will collect brown tonight for foster - since that's a starter for a guy i picked to be a vulture -WHEN stephen davis goes down - and i'm an AUBURN man so i gotta love him (and i do) - but history is history and odds are odds...thanks for all the responses guys - i appreciate the talk & info/opinions...just to set the stage - not to brag, i promise - i've won 4/6 championships in my league and i love NOTHING (worldly) more than football...i think i have a good feel for the game - that's why i seek opinions from others who love the game - and obviously you guys do...thanks again... prm... |
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Title: Re: rb worries... Post by StegRock on Aug 19th, 2004, 8:56pm on 08/19/04 at 20:33:40, prm wrote:
But, Pittman's never done a damn thing in the NFL at least not fantasy-worthy, except disappoint (time after time), and he's surely had his chances. Also, mentality is part of the equation, a big part. |
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Title: Re: rb worries... Post by prm on Aug 19th, 2004, 9:33pm ...i understand - i have no choice - and again..(i did not say potential - ..."a name for something you're not using")...were he focused (etherial, subjective, etc) - i would rather have a player of his ilk (physically) than garner...that being said there's no way to account for those things i mentioned - i just think he's tougher - and i'm old school...i've seen great players get bounced out of the league because they couldn't put it all together - i think this is another example of that... |
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Title: Re: rb worries... Post by StegRock on Aug 19th, 2004, 10:31pm I must be missing something, but... okay. [smiley=uh.gif] ... [smiley=idontknow.gif] |
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Title: Re: rb worries... Post by DOLFAN on Aug 19th, 2004, 10:32pm JAMAL LEWIS: His stock keeps falling. This extra BS charge moves him down to #7 on my list now...thank goodness for him RWms quit or it would be lower. He is a SUPERSTUD, but based on total stats for the year i ahd to move him down. I also feel the trial, or worries of an eventual trial, will have some bearing on his focus/stats. PITTMAN: is nothing more than a receiving back to be used as a #5 or 6 guy in very deep leagues. I don't think he will get cut, if he does, someone will sign him somewhere after they lose a RB or 2 from injury. Chris Brown will be very good. Everybody else said this above. |
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Title: Re: rb worries... Post by Philly on Aug 20th, 2004, 8:27am on 08/19/04 at 22:32:36, DOLFAN wrote:
I actually think Jamal will be a stud and that the impending trial won't affect his stats. The football field will be a great place for him to escape from the worries of the trial and a place for him to get his aggressions out (by running for 250 against the Browns, perhaps?). I'm not even that concerned about the trial causing him to miss a week or two mid season. It will be a good rest for his body for the stretch run. However, if he is found guilty... :-X |
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Title: Re: rb worries... Post by StegRock on Aug 20th, 2004, 9:13am I concur 100%. |
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Title: Re: rb worries... Post by Callie on Aug 20th, 2004, 5:42pm I agree with Philly 100%, too. I just hope there is more bad trial news right before my next draft (a relatively small private league). Can you imagine getting J Lew as your RB2? |
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Title: Re: rb worries... Post by junkyardjake on Aug 20th, 2004, 9:23pm You know you guys got me curious about this Jamal Lewis thing, and I'm kind of looking at the charges and the circumstances and it may be more serious than originally thought. See what you think: Basically, he is being charged with conspiracy to 'possess with the intent to distribute' cocaine, (and some bullcrap thing about using a cell phone to do it). 'Conspiracy' in this context is meant to describe 'an agreement between two or more persons to engage in an unlawful act'. The circumstances involve Jamal and one other person, a childhood friend named Angelo Jackson. In the summer of 2000, a government informant called Lewis on his cell phone and told him 'She was willing to sell Lewis's associates narcotics for a price that they could tax'......(Tax evidently is drug-dealer talk for a price low enough so that they could mark it up for profit). To which Lewis alledgedly responded 'Yeah'. This informant then met Angelo Jackson at some restaurant and he was subsequently arrested some time later. The things the government will need to prove are: 1) An agreement between Lewis and Jackson Because these guys are childhood friends, there is at least circumstantial evidence that there was some sort of nexus between Lewis's acceptance on the phone and Jackson's attempt to procure the cocaine; plus (although this uses currently inadmissible statements) Jackson has admitted to have been reacting to a tip from Lewis on the potential deal, not good. 2) The intent by Jamal Lewis to possess cocaine for the purpose of selling it This will be tougher, because normally it is required that Lewis will need to be guilty of having some sort of stake in the venture. I would imagine that this would require indisputable proof that Lewis himself profited from whatever drug business that Jackson was in and he had a personal interest in seeing the transaction succeed. 3) An overt act, by any of the conspirators, in futherance of the plan This obviously happened when Jackson met the informant at the restaurant to discuss the purchase of the cocaine. So if anything will save Jamal Lewis's butt, it's the #2 element where they need to prove a personal stake in the venture. It is also possible that he could use the defense of entrapment, depending on the specific tactics used by the government informant. Just thought I'd share that, the bottom line is, if you have any reason to believe Jamal Lewis was somehow making money off drug transactions, draft Musa Smith in the 16th round. |
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Title: Re: rb worries... Post by Callie on Aug 20th, 2004, 9:35pm I grabbed Musa late in two re-draft leagues just for speculation. If I didn't want to keep him later on, roster spot. . As for Jamal, he could be relatively innocent, he could O.J. his way out - or the Ravens could work a deal. I do not expect legal problems unless the NFL is trying to make a point about showing how anti-drug they are. With Lewis? Only if there is some bigger reason. Why were the Cowboys so quick on the trigger, and why is the player's association reacting so much? |
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Title: Re: rb worries... Post by junkyardjake on Aug 20th, 2004, 11:12pm Callie, Smart move grabbing Musa, you never know. Quote:
That's always a possibility, but I would like to believe that Jamal was smart enough not to have derived any income from distributing cocaine, remember this is a federal charge, they are not accusing him of just using it, but distributing it. Quote:
I doubt the Quincy Carter release had much to do with suspected drug use, Bill Parcels is a volatile decision-maker that rarely ever explains his true reasons. It probably had more to do with Quincy's turnovers quite frankly. |
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Title: Re: rb worries... Post by Philly on Aug 20th, 2004, 11:30pm on 08/20/04 at 21:35:47, Callie wrote:
Like Callie said, Carter wasn't part of Parcell's plan and this was a good time to make an example. The NFLPA had to act because they are the player's union. And after the last CBA they agreed to, they better jump whenever a player tells them to. |
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Title: Re: rb worries... Post by prm on Aug 21st, 2004, 8:20am hey guys - i'm the troublemaker that started all this...i nabbed chris brown as you suggested ($1) - and was even less worried last night because now westbrook has vaulted to the single starting back for philly - so however long jamal is off - i'm probably gonna be ok...thanks guys, prm... |
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Title: Re: rb worries... Post by Philly on Aug 22nd, 2004, 10:10am on 08/18/04 at 22:17:10, StegRock wrote:
Just updating the numbers from Preseason Game #3... Q. Griffin 14-55 G. Hearst 2-15 |
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Title: Re: rb worries... Post by StegRock on Aug 22nd, 2004, 11:38am Thanks, Phil! I will likewise keep you up to date on Westbrook's "time lost due to injury" count and offensive touchdown count (which is only bound to go up from the solid 11 he had last season) throughout the REAL season. ;) |
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Title: Re: rb worries... Post by StegRock on Aug 22nd, 2004, 12:40pm Mind you, here, Phil,... I am assuming, and maybe incorrectly so, I suppose, that you are asserting that, based on those stat lines, Griffin has a leg up on Hearst (though I know you have been touting RBBC in Denver as have I). If you are not, then my bad. [smiley=letsmakeup.gif] Take my posts from a strictly objective perspective. ... So, let's apply the logic (I am guessing) you are asserting there, Phil, to these stat lines: W. Parker - 12-71-1 J. Bettis - 10-48-1 D. Staley - 2-5-0 "W. Parker" looks to be the guy, and Bettis looks to have a leg up on Staley, huh? Of course, not! Preseason stat lines mean little to nothing in the grand scheme of things; they are so "tailored to the team's specific 'situation'" and what they specifically are trying to "work out". Only skill itself can be assessed, not opportunity, and even that has to be done "relatively speaking", so to speak! Oh, and by the way, let's fill out that box score a little better, in any event: M. Anderson - 21-120-1 Q. Griffin - 14-55-0 G. Hearst - 2-15-0 And, NOT to mention 14-for-55 is not really that impressive from a yards-per-rush perspective, especially considering the fact that he had 1 rush for 18 yards. ... So, in conclusion, though my assumption about what you are asserting may be incorrect, I still think that not enough was put into your presentation there. Moreover, I suppose the proof is in the pudding... of my admitting that my assumption may be incorrect, i.e. showing that I'm not sure what the point you were trying to make is, if there even is a point, but that's hard to believe. There had to be some (greater) point to your post. Otherwise, what's "the point" in making the post? |
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Title: Re: rb worries... Post by prm on Aug 22nd, 2004, 9:25pm y'know - and of course what do i know - i don't have all the stars & bars & stuff with my name - but, i really wonder what the upside - other than maybe age - griffin has over mike anderson - i've always been an anderson fan so this may just be clouded - but he's a good lookin' back with experience and work ethic - unfortunately playing for a psycho - sorry to all the shannahan fans - i think he could start almost anywhere and produce if given the chance - but, if the queen had b@##$, she'd be the king... prm... |
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Title: Re: rb worries... Post by Callie on Aug 22nd, 2004, 9:59pm prm - 1. Stars and bars here just come from number of posts. No big deal. And your posts are good. 2. I hate Shanny more than you do. I guarantee it. 3. Maybe Anderson was not in the right place at the right time. But I still think Bell will be the back sooner or later, probably sooner than later. That's an unpopular theory here at this point in the preseason. But I think it is true. 4. Maybe Miami could give Anderson some time. Sunshine Country! [smiley=sunny.gif] |
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Title: Re: rb worries... Post by Philly on Aug 22nd, 2004, 10:25pm on 08/22/04 at 12:40:27, StegRock wrote:
I do think that Griffin has a leg up on Hearst for the "primary ball carrier" role in Denver. The issue here (which differs significantly from the issue in Pittsburgh, rendering your comparison moot and unworthy of any further discussion) is that there are FOUR guys who legitimately have a shot at being the #1 guy. History has shown us that Shanahan will stick with one guy during the season (Davis, Gary, Anderson, Portis). So, it is reasonable to assume that all four players are auditioning to be "the" guy in Denver. Of the four, I believe that Griffin has the best shot to be that guy. He has a year under Shanahan in this offense and has produced in the regular season. Hearst, while versatile, has injury issues and is aging and is still learning this system (even though it is fairly similar to the WCO he played in SF under Mooch). Anderson has had other opportunities to have the #1 job following his big season, yet, for myriad reasons (competition, drug suspensions, etc.), has not been able to earn the #1 position. Bell seems to be the heir apparent, but is a rookie who has missed time in camp due to an injury. He also has been criticized at times by Shanahan for making typical rookie mistakes. So, I see no reason to believe that Shanahan will go with anyone else besides Griffin to begin the season. Personally, I think that Griffin will not stand up to the pounding of the NFL (although he has never had injury issues, so this is a hunch on my part) and will eventually give way to Bell (who seems to be a clone of Terrell Davis and Clinton Portis coming into the league). I also believe that Hearst is good enough (running AND receiving AND blocking) to earn a decent amount of playing time. So, when you are telling people not to get on the Griffin bandwagon, and then strutting out pre-season stats showing one more carry for Hearst, I think you are being disingenuous, especially in light of your criticism of my use of similar stats. Essentially, my point is that it is fine to be on the Griffin bandwagon, especially early in the season when he should he a worthy candidate for a #2 FF RB position. |
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Title: Re: rb worries... Post by Philly on Aug 22nd, 2004, 10:28pm on 08/22/04 at 21:25:12, prm wrote:
I was an Anderson owner the year he broke out and had the big season, so I've always had a little fondness for the guy. But he had an opportunity to retain that position and never was able to do it. He's had drug issues (which makes it unlikely that Miami would take a chance on him now) which undoubtedly have hurt him. Plus, he's getting to an age now where RBs don't have the type of success they do at a younger age. So, I agree with Callie that Bell will be the guy before long, however Griffin should be solid to start the season. |
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Title: Re: rb worries... Post by StegRock on Aug 22nd, 2004, 11:24pm on 08/22/04 at 22:25:49, Philly wrote:
Holy yit!!! My mouth is SO FULL right now... with YOUR words!!! You already erroneously "accused" me of this nefarious "# of carries" thing once... on 08/18/04 at 22:29:09, Philly wrote:
My response... on 08/18/04 at 22:38:27, StegRock wrote:
With "just the fact itself" =ing "Hearst did not play in their first preseason game at all, but is still around and evidently/demonstratively (at least as) capable (as Griffin) to the degree that he shouldn't be forgotten" and that, ultimately, I smell RBBC, at least, as I have stated elsewhere on the site, like in my Broncos report, since Bell, the guy I think is Shanny's guy, was a late-comer and has been dinged up from the get-go. My point is a very "general": in short, "don't discount Hearst; he ain't goin' anywhere and will get his". You (incorrectly) interpreted/analyzed my usage of the stats with a level of specificity that is inconsistent with my position. That's why you then posted Griffin's stats vis-a-vis Hearst's for their third game. Your usage of (the) stats (in your argumentation) is different than mine. On the other hand, my critique of your post is on your terms and I, just like you, point to the erroneousness of comparing (preseason) situations, like those of Pittsburgh's and Denver's. That was just my making my point by way of hyperbole. Point being, you were using Denver's third-game rushing stats, minus Anderson's numbers though, to bolster your argument (as you state it above, which I was correct about). I am not really challenging the "what" of your argument; I am challenging the "how" of your argument. Your conclusion is surely valid given your premises and within your reasoning. I am questioning, not the conclusion, but your premises and, moreover, processing of them, i.e. your reasoning. Your position: Shanny has established a pattern of ultimately going with ONE guy and not a RBBC (which I agree with, but know that people are unpredictable creatures who can change on a dime); Griffin seems to be that guy based on (your more specific interpretation of) the preseason (numbers, which, mind you, I do question... as being part of your "how"). My position: Shanny's one guy is/was Tatum Bell; he's not going to be the guy, though, going into the season because of the holdout and injury and probably won't be ready to take the reigns until maybe as late as mid-season; until then, it is (based on a very general overview of what's going on in the preseason, which you surely have a right to disagree with, but in relation to which you don't have a right, at least not validly, to make me defend a position I am not taking, but, on the other hand, you, of course, can disagree with my (way of) reasoning, too) going to be RBBC, for all fantasy-football intents and purposes, and could remain that way if Bell doesn't pan out and/or the RBBC and the team are doing well. |
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Title: Re: rb worries... Post by Philly on Aug 23rd, 2004, 6:40am on 08/22/04 at 23:24:16, StegRock wrote:
Now you're putting words in my mouth. I believe that Griffin is the guy because, as I explained above, he has REGULAR season production. Please look a few posts above where I detail each of the backs. Not once did I say Griffin is the guy because he has pre-season numbers. Quote:
I too believe that Bell is his guy (which I also explain above). But for you to argue that Denver will go RBBC is a tenuous position, at least. There is no precedent for it from Shanahan (a point with which you seem to agree above), yet you think he could do something contrary to everything he has done in the past. I guess I could argue that there won't be a RBBC because he won't use ANY RBs early this season and just go with 4 and 5 WR sets, throwing on every down. Sure, there's no precedent, but there's nothing stopping him from doing it... ;D |
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Title: Re: rb worries... Post by StegRock on Aug 23rd, 2004, 11:58am on 08/23/04 at 06:40:40, Philly wrote:
Well, that's tendentiously put. Maybe you did not "'explicitly' say, 'Griffin is the guy because he has (better) pre-season numbers (than the rest),'" but that was surely the "implication" of your "updating" the preseason numbers. As for your "regular-season production" and "years under Shanahan" premises, I took that with a bit of a grain of salt. Again, my focus is on and my beef (if that's really what you can call this) is with (the "reasoning" (or lack thereof) behind) your preseason game 3 stats update! As to your regular-season rationale, actually, Anderson, of the backs there, has been the most and most consistently (from an NFL standpoint) productive regular-season running back under and has played the longest time for Shanahan. However, I ultimately agree that it appears that Griffin is ahead of Anderson at tailback, primarily probably because of Anderson's fullback duties. And, more generally speaking, Hearst too has perty good regular season numbers, me thinks. He learned San Fran's system pretty quickly and had a GREAT year his first year there. He is a savvy veteran for whom picking up the system will be a snap. But, yes, age is an issue. That's why I see a Griffin-Hearst split. And, in any event, you are overrating the idea of "picking up the system" for running backs. Running backs play on instinct and have to improvise more than any other position (of the skill positions on offense) from day one. That's why so many rookie running backs find success vis-a-vis quarterbacks, who really do have to know the offensive system inside and out and have to establish good timing with their receivers, receivers, who at least have to run crisp and accurate routes that are consistent with the system and develop timing with the quarterback, and tight ends, who, on top of what applies to receivers, also have to learn blocking assignments. Quote:
Going from a Shanny west coastish offense to a run-and-shoot is NOT commensurate to my proposing that he could go RBBC this year... because that is what his personnel this year, vis-a-vis years past, lends itself to. He wouldn't be changing philosophy; he would just be adjusting to his personnel. BIG difference. People adjust all the time (for that matter, people even dramatically change philosophies, but for the purposes of this argument, I need not prove "vast philosophical change"; I need just illustrate the possibility for "adjustment"). I think it VERY within reason to think that Shanahan will go with a RBBC, if that is what his personnel dictates come the season, which I think based on my (style of) processing the evidence is the case, and at least until he can really look under Bell's hood and really check the engine and/or unless someone really shows what it takes to be a featured NFL back. I personally just don't think Griffin has established himself as a featured-caliber back at least not any more so than Anderson or Hearst, who do have awesome full seasons under their belts. ... And, in any event, actually, if my memory is serving me correctly, Shanahan did have a little bit of a RBBC going on when he was out in Oakland (and, again, adjusting to his personnel, which lacked a featured-caliber back). [smiley=cantcatch.gif] |
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Title: Re: rb worries... Post by bgsgfan on Aug 23rd, 2004, 5:23pm Very interesting discussion going on here. I am going to pick one isolated quote to argue (sort of). on 08/23/04 at 11:58:37, StegRock wrote:
There have been at least 2 years that I recall where the general FF consensus was divided on which Denver RBs would be featured. Both of those years were very similar, in that way, to this year. The first one (2001, I believe) was after Mike Anderson's break-through season when Davis, Anderson, and Gary were all in the mix. I believe TD was "the man" that year when he was healthy, although the year end stats tend to look like a RBBC. The second instance (2002) was Portis's rookie season when Anderson, Gary, and Portis appeared to all be involved. We all remember how that season turned out. In each case, arguments could have been made, before the season, supporting RBBCs. I do not see how the personnel this year significantly lends itself to a RBBC approach more so than in either of those years. I do see evidence of a slight, very slight, personnel tendency for a RBBC this year compared to those years in these ways: 1. vs. 2001, there is no TD, to whom Shanny was extremely loyal. 2. vs 2002, it is doubtful that Bell has the talent of Portis. My point is that there were years that supported a RBBC, like this year does. Furthermore, although I can see arguments to indicate that it is more likely this year, I do not think the degree of difference is enough to go against the evidence that Shanny has not used a RBBC while in Denver (to my knowledge). Perhaps I am missing some key elements (in which case please enlighten me), or perhaps we are just drawing different conclussions from the same data (in which case its ok to agree to disagree). |
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Title: Re: rb worries... Post by prm on Aug 23rd, 2004, 7:51pm the thing that is curious - is GOOD backs will stand around and wait for that a$$ to choose who's gonna be "the guy" and then just hang aroung for a bone to be tossed their way or for "the guy to go down"...when what you would expect is what's going on in buffalo - "i'm not sticking around if he starts" - shannahan's like a ffb owner who loads up on backs - and has some great ones that don't play...at least we have the luxury of deciding that based on actual performance... prm... |
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Title: Re: rb worries... Post by StegRock on Aug 23rd, 2004, 9:33pm No, bg, I don't think you or your argument is missing anything. It is very well presented and premised, organized and logically valid. [smiley=bow.gif] I can't argue against your take. All I can do is present an opposing valid argument (which I believe I've already done... though, don't get me wrong, not necessarily successfully [smiley=shrug.gif] ). So, all we can do at this point is agree to disagree,... slightly, which is just fine. We are at a point where that's a "reason-able" thing to do. The argument has been "seen" through, so to speak. Now we just wait and see. :) |
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Title: Re: rb worries... Post by Philly on Aug 23rd, 2004, 10:30pm I still say that Cecil Sapp will be the guy... ;) Anyway, bgsg, you indicate that it is "doubtful that Bell has the talent of Portis." Are you comparing the Bell of now to the Portis of now, or to the Portis of 2002? |
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Title: Re: rb worries... Post by bgsgfan on Aug 23rd, 2004, 11:00pm on 08/23/04 at 22:30:33, Philly wrote:
Portis as we now know him, not as he was perceived prior to the 2002 season (but yes, I am comparing Bell to Portis as he actually was). If you compare the perception of Bell to what the perception was of Portis at the same time in their careers, I think it is very similar. It is unlikely that Bell has Portis's talent (of course it was unlikely that Portis would have Portis's talent). Ugggh, I hope that I am conveying what I mean - I almost have myself confused. My prediction: Quentin Griffin will be the featured back to begin the season and will not lose the role unless he is injured. Hearst will be the backup and will get roughly the same amount of action as a 3rd down back (this may change around the middle of the season as Bell gets phased in). In order for Bell to be the featured back, he will have to explode when/if Griffin gets injured. Mike Anderson has very little chance to be any more than a short yardage back. Hearst's best chance of being the featured back is an early season injury to Griffin. I would not be surprised to see end of the year stats which looked like a RBBC, but when each game is examined on its own it will be a traditional type mixture. I have changed my mind about 3 times regarding how this situation will work out, the one thing that hasn't changed is that I do not think it'll be a RBBC. Caveat: I have never been correct regarding the Denver RB situation. In the GBRFL2 I have Hearst and Griffin, so the smart money should be on Bell... or a RBBC. ;) |
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Title: Re: rb worries... Post by junkyardjake on Aug 23rd, 2004, 11:19pm I think you guys have it all wrong, Shanahan will employ a backfield platoon of John Lynch and Dwayne Carswell for home games; for away games he will abandon the run game completely and unleash triple-threat Plummer (interceptions, fumbles and 4 yard scrambles). I agree with the sentiment that Griffin starts the season, but isn't worth keeping when Bell returns. Bell has the more ideal size/speed combination (5-11, 215 v. Griffin at 5-7 195). JYJ :^) |
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Title: Re: rb worries... Post by Philly on Aug 24th, 2004, 6:59am on 08/23/04 at 23:00:45, bgsgfan wrote:
Just an update... this is a quote from Shanny (from footballinjuries.com) Quote:
Not that this clears things up much, but it does indicate that Shanahan wants a clear #1. |
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