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        the Gridiron >> the Red Zone >>  what happened to Boo?
        
(Message started by: sameoldsameold on Sep 23rd, 2004, 9:26pm)
Title: what happened to Boo?
Post by sameoldsameold on Sep 23rd, 2004, 9:26pm
i have boo williams on my team and after last week and the injury of deuce will he get a catch this week?  I heard they werent playing him as much because of bad blocking....anyone hear anything?  Is Boo Williams worth starting....or should i start LJ smith?  Any Help would be great thanks.
Title: Re: what happened to Boo?
Post by Philly on Sep 24th, 2004, 6:33am
Boo is fine.  He just hasn't been part of their offensive packages as a receiver yet.  Over time he will be, especially with their RB issues.  However, I'd go ahead and start LJ for now until you see some production from Boo.  LJ is getting lots of red zone looks.
Title: Re: what happened to Boo?
Post by KillerKingSting on Sep 24th, 2004, 11:57am

on 09/24/04 at 06:33:56, Philly wrote:
Boo is fine.  He just hasn't been part of their offensive packages as a receiver yet.  Over time he will be, especially with their RB issues.  However, I'd go ahead and start LJ for now until you see some production from Boo.  LJ is getting lots of red zone looks.


Boo is fine?
How is Boo fine?
Hes not blocking or catching or running routes on a starting TE's level.

I wouldn't call that fine.

In fact, their other TE (who is it Conwell or Johnson? who cares!!), who isn't nearly as physically gifted, has overtaken the job from Boo.

Boo isn't fine. This is just an extension of your fogged Vick analysis which has seemingly taken over now, as a widespread infection within your NFL player analysis.

Get some help, quickly! :D
Title: Re: what happened to Boo?
Post by Philly on Sep 24th, 2004, 1:18pm

on 09/24/04 at 11:57:29, KillerKingSting wrote:
Boo is fine?
How is Boo fine?
Hes not blocking or catching or running routes on a starting TE's level.

I wouldn't call that fine.

In fact, their other TE (who is it Conwell or Johnson? who cares!!), who isn't nearly as physically gifted, has overtaken the job from Boo.
Let's look at the facts here, instead of just reacting emotionally. Boo is the pass-catching TE and Ernie Conwell is the blocking TE. There's no denying that Conwell is a better blocker.

Boo Williams has been a pass target more times than Conwell in the two games so far. Plus, Williams, traditionally, is not a strong starter at the beginning of the season. Look at his numbers and they increase as the season goes on.

The Saints were running a 2-TE set in game one. This upset Deuce because he wanted a FB to block instead of a TE. So, in game 2, the Saints ran more 1-TE sets with Conwell as a blocker.

Unfortunately, the Saints may have to go back to the 2-TE sets now that Deuce is hurt. They'll have to rely more on the passing game and Boo is an important part of that.

If you want to panic two games into the season, go right ahead.



Quote:
Boo isn't fine. This is just an extension of your fogged Vick analysis which has seemingly taken over now, as a widespread infection within your NFL player analysis.
At least I stick to my analysis.  I saw that you are recommending Brooks over Vick this week because you don't think Vick, with all his superhuman abilities, can rush for 100 yards (against a terrible Cards D) two weeks in a row.

Besides, while I think Boo is still a quality FF TE, I recommended that soso start LJ Smith because he is getting lots of RZ looks... is that fogged thinking too?
Title: Re: what happened to Boo?
Post by KillerKingSting on Sep 24th, 2004, 1:55pm

on 09/24/04 at 13:18:28, Philly wrote:
Let's look at the facts here, instead of just reacting emotionally.


Please enlighten me on how it is that you are somehow able to supernaturally assess my emotional status via the internet? You'd like to stick w/ facts? Then do it and don't just say it. Fact is you have NO way whatsoever of accurately interpreting my emoitonal status online - even if I typed my exact emoitonal being, I could very well, be the opposite of what I say I am.


Quote:
Boo Williams has been a pass target more times than Conwell in the two games so far. Plus, Williams, traditionally, is not a strong starter at the beginning of the season. Look at his numbers and they increase as the season goes on.


Please provide your statistical and FACTUAL (though from your above statements, how am I or ANYONE for that fact, able to believe your facts are facts when in fact , you have strayed from factual anaylsis yourself to begin your discussion?
Fact is we can NOT count on you to provide ANY factual statements in this discussion since, in fact, you've relied your rebutal on non-factual interpretation. ;D



Quote:
Unfortunately, the Saints may have to go back to the 2-TE sets now that Deuce is hurt. They'll have to rely more on the passing game and Boo is an important part of that.


Boo is not up to par with his offseason training. And it has shown in his games.Thats a FACT.


Quote:
If you want to panic two games into the season, go right ahead.


There you go again, assessing and analyzing and dreadfully interpreting my emoitional status. We just can not rely on your so called "facts" - you've given us the proof of that right here! Twice already in fact ;D



Quote:
At least I stick to my analysis.  I saw that you are recommending Brooks over Vick this week because you don't think Vick, with all his superhuman abilities, can rush for 100 yards (against a terrible Cards D) two weeks in a row.


My My My, how you like to twist to your own little sick analysis.
In fact, your going against your own reasoning here in that Vick is injury prone. Why wouldn't YOU as a head coach want Vick to blister Arizona's weak and depleted secondary through the air rather than, risk Vick (your worries) to his ever-so injury-riddled stature by him running the ball?
Your making absolutely no sense and your consistency has lost it's merit - completely, from one week to another in your analysis of not only Vick but also, (as you said, Arizona's WEAK defense - right?), of your above comments.
You'd be a terrible head coach. Beat the Cards through the air and spare Vick's body for now until bigger fish come along to fry. Shoot, the Cards don't even exihibit a pass rush much less than a secondary that can stay w/ receivers.

Brooks or Vick would be fine to start this week - they should only be a couple of points off one another in their respective fantasy showings. Your not presenting much of an argument as to which QB I'd pick to play.
And the reason is because there isn't much of n argument there to pick on - take either QB, he'll do fine.



Quote:
Besides, while I think Boo is still a quality FF TE, I recommended that soso start LJ Smith because he is getting lots of RZ looks... is that fogged thinking too?


That has nothing to do at all with the discussion at hand regarding your fogged analysis - my grandmother would've picked LJ over Boo this weekend.
Title: Re: what happened to Boo?
Post by Philly on Sep 24th, 2004, 2:48pm

on 09/24/04 at 13:55:58, KillerKingSting wrote:
Please enlighten me on how it is that you are somehow able to supernaturally assess my emotional status via the internet? You'd like to stick w/ facts? Then do it and don't just say it. Fact is you have NO way whatsoever of accurately interpreting my emoitonal status online - even if I typed my exact emoitonal being, I could very well, be the opposite of what I say I am.
You used excessive punctuation (two exclamation points where one would suffice) and were answering your own rhetorical questions. It just seemed like you were a bit worked up over my initial response.

Also, if you could be typing the exact opposite of what you are really feeling, then how can I take you seriously at all? You might actually think that Boo is the best TE ever to play the game and are just being contrary to get a rise out of me.  (It won't work, though... I'm probably one of the most even-keel people around.)


Quote:
Please provide your statistical and FACTUAL (though from your above statements, how am I or ANYONE for that fact, able to believe your facts are facts when in fact , you have strayed from factual anaylsis yourself to begin your discussion?
Fact is we can NOT count on you to provide ANY factual statements in this discussion since, in fact, you've relied your rebutal on non-factual interpretation. ;D

Both of the statements I made are factual.
1. Boo has been a passing target more times than Conwell.
Fact: Boo thrown 7 passes in two weeks and Conwell thrown 6 passes in two weeks. Not a big margin, but still a statistical fact.

2. Boo is a slow starter.
Fact: 2003 (Games 1-8: 11-47-1, Games 9-16: 30-360-4)
Fact: 2002 (Games 1-8: 3-27-2, Games 9-16: 10-112-0)
Fact: 2001 (Games 1-9: 3-17-0, Games 10-17: 17-185-3)
Seems like a trend to me... but those are just facts.  I don't argue facts without first checking them out myself. Unlike you who are willing to make up your own "recollection" of the stats to fit your needs. (e.g., Mike Vick threw for 400+ yards and ran for multiple TDs in a win against Pittsburgh in 2002?)



Quote:
Boo is not up to par with his offseason training. And it has shown in his games.Thats a FACT.
...Which would seem to support my argument that he is a slow starter and will be fine.



Quote:
You'd be a terrible head coach. Beat the Cards through the air and spare Vick's body for now until bigger fish come along to fry. Shoot, the Cards don't even exihibit a pass rush much less than a secondary that can stay w/ receivers.
Actually, if I was coaching the Falcons, I'd run TJ Duckett into that weak line 30 times and see what happened.  No risk to Vick at all that way.  He won't get sacked and he won't get hit while running the ball. But, then again, I played defense most of the time in HS, so I wouldn't even bother trying to coach offense.
Title: Re: what happened to Boo?
Post by sameoldsameold on Sep 24th, 2004, 6:08pm
thanks for advice ill start LJ this week.
Title: Re: what happened to Boo?
Post by KillerKingSting on Sep 24th, 2004, 7:07pm

on 09/24/04 at 14:48:30, Philly wrote:
You used excessive punctuation (two exclamation points where one would suffice) and were answering your own rhetorical questions. It just seemed like you were a bit worked up over my initial response.


Big deal about the exclammation points - maybe I just drank a glass of coke or something. You said "seemed" - and thats more of an appropiate response - glad you are taling things down,........I'll give you a grade of a C+ for this lesson.
Yours truly,
Teacher Stinger.


Quote:
Also, if you could be typing the exact opposite of what you are really feeling, then how can I take you seriously at all? You might actually think that Boo is the best TE ever to play the game and are just being contrary to get a rise out of me.  (It won't work, though... I'm probably one of the most even-keel people around.)


You continue to try and guess what I am thinking and feeling and you continue to be a misdirected sloppy analyzer of my true intentions. Please read your Holy BEE-Ble and then, you might get a slither of a notion of the greatness you are communicating with [smiley=laugh.gif] <joke>


Quote:
Both of the statements I made are factual.
1. Boo has been a passing target more times than Conwell.
Fact: Boo thrown 7 passes in two weeks and Conwell thrown 6 passes in two weeks. Not a big margin, but still a statistical fact.


A less than marginal fact and not one that merits the substantial diagnoses you gave.


Quote:
2. Boo is a slow starter.
Fact: 2003 (Games 1-8: 11-47-1, Games 9-16: 30-360-4)
Fact: 2002 (Games 1-8: 3-27-2, Games 9-16: 10-112-0)
Fact: 2001 (Games 1-9: 3-17-0, Games 10-17: 17-185-3)
Seems like a trend to me... but those are just facts.  I don't argue facts without first checking them out myself. Unlike you who are willing to make up your own "recollection" of the stats to fit your needs. (e.g., Mike Vick threw for 400+ yards and ran for multiple TDs in a win against Pittsburgh in 2002?)


Unlike me, you have not had to deal with 3 hurricanes and no electricity for 2 weeks and unlike me, you do not commish a league, and unlike you, I admit when I am wrong rather than, trying to sugar coat it for the Grid public. ::)



Quote:
...Which would seem to support my argument that he is a slow starter and will be fine.


Thats only if things and life in the NFL were perfectly set in trends, which they are NOT.
In fact, that should be just the opposite of what you are saying because, after 3 years of nearly the same exact trned, the odds are it would work out differently this year.
You aren't talking Tony Gonzalez here, which happens to be the most consistent trend-like TE in the NFL.
Your Talking Boo Williams.
Get real and quit bloating your "potential" stats to your likings.



Quote:
Actually, if I was coaching the Falcons, I'd run TJ Duckett into that weak line 30 times and see what happened.  No risk to Vick at all that way.  He won't get sacked and he won't get hit while running the ball. But, then again, I played defense most of the time in HS, so I wouldn't even bother trying to coach offense.


Which totally discredits your statement about ME picking Brooks to start instead of Vick and ME saying that he probably wouldn't rush for another 100 yard day though, even someone as outside of REAL football as yourself, can pretty much see what would be the BEST scenario for Vick this week.

Dunn had NO problems running inside last week - with a 2 yard and a 3yd rushing TD (theres stats for yah! :o and ones which you have failed to recognize!) , they don't need Duckett in there unless Dunn gets hurt.
Title: Re: what happened to Boo?
Post by Philly on Sep 24th, 2004, 11:56pm

on 09/24/04 at 19:07:37, KillerKingSting wrote:
A less than marginal fact and not one that merits the substantial diagnoses you gave.
Fair point on your part.  But let's break it down even further.  In week one, when the team was running two-TE sets, Boo was targetted 7 times to only 4 for Conwell.  In week two the team went primarily with a one-TE set with Conwell as the blocker and Conwell, despite the great disparity in playing time, still only got 2 looks.  If they need to go back to a two-TE set, then it would make sense that Boo gets the looks again.


Quote:
Unlike me, you have not had to deal with 3 hurricanes and no electricity for 2 weeks and unlike me, you do not commish a league, and unlike you, I admit when I am wrong rather than, trying to sugar coat it for the Grid public. ::)
Unlike me, you don't play in 4 leagues, and unlike me, you don't have a 16-month old son to bring up, and unlike me, you don't have to get ready for a meeting in Chicago next week with an important client, and unlike me, you don't have etc. ... we could go on and on.  We both have limited time and it took me all of 5-10 minutes to get those stats from NFL.com.

I also am perfectly willing to admit that I am wrong when it happens.  I admitted that I drafted poorly in Jim's IDP league by paying too little attention to the value of defensive players as opposed to offensive players.  I recommended that someone should play Deuce McAllister in week two, and came back and apologized following the game.  It's all here on the Gridiron.  But I don't believe I'm wrong about Boo or Vick.




Quote:
Thats only if things and life in the NFL were perfectly set in trends, which they are NOT.
In fact, that should be just the opposite of what you are saying because, after 3 years of nearly the same exact trned, the odds are it would work out differently this year.
If I flip a coin 9 times and every time it comes up heads, then, by your logic, odds are that it will be tails when I flip it the 10th time.  However it just doesn't work that way.  I still have a 50/50 chance with the tenth flip.  The coin doesn't know about the odds.  But by saying that Boo Williams traditionally starts off slowly, and then posts nice numbers in the second half of the year indicates more than a trend... it indicates that he might be doing something specifically to affect that outcome.  You say that he doesn't get into shape in the off-season (a fact that I am ignorant of) and that would directly lead to the that outcome.



Quote:
Dunn had NO problems running inside last week - with a 2 yard and a 3yd rushing TD (theres stats for yah! :o and ones which you have failed to recognize!) , they don't need Duckett in there unless Dunn gets hurt.
Guess you haven't been paying attention.  Dunn got hurt last week and was just upgraded from questionable to probable on the injury list today.  As a coach, I know I have another capable runner, so why not let Dunn take a little more time to rest his knee since I should be able to have success running Duckett against the Cards weak D-line?
Title: Re: what happened to Boo?
Post by KillerKingSting on Sep 25th, 2004, 12:13am

on 09/24/04 at 23:56:05, Philly wrote:
Fair point on your part.  But let's break it down even further.  In week one, when the team was running two-TE sets, Boo was targetted 7 times to only 4 for Conwell.  In week two the team went primarily with a one-TE set with Conwell as the blocker and Conwell, despite the great disparity in playing time, still only got 2 looks.  If they need to go back to a two-TE set, then it would make sense that Boo gets the looks again.


Ok, problem is that Boo isn't playing well right now and has lost his staryting job to the other TE.
He just might well make a comeback as you have eluded to but, as is right now, and with you harping on FACTS FACTS FACTS, he is no longer the starter (barring 2 TE sets).


Quote:
Unlike me, you don't play in 4 leagues, and unlike me, you don't have a 16-month old son to bring up, and unlike me, you don't have to get ready for a meeting in Chicago next week with an important client, and unlike me, you don't have etc. ... we could go on and on.  We both have limited time and it took me all of 5-10 minutes to get those stats from NFL.com.


Understandable - I'll take your 16 month old child over losing electricity for 2 weeks out of 4 (more to come this sunday unfortunately) and facing 3 hurricanes in 6 weeks time. That is, as long as I can give him back when the hurricanes are over and done with.

your job responsibilities are no more tougher than mine -but I will give you the rap on traveling - jet lag and time differences can wear a guy out!

Actually, I am commishing 3 leagues now (about to that is but, the preparation in oputting them all together is even more tough than if they were already organized) and in comparison to your 4 football leagues, so what!!!???? you know all the players anyhow, can't be that rough on yah! Versus ME getting together 3 different leagues on 3 different sports! and 3 different set of players!


Quote:
I also am perfectly willing to admit that I am wrong when it happens.  I admitted that I drafted poorly in Jim's IDP league by paying too little attention to the value of defensive players as opposed to offensive players.  I recommended that someone should play Deuce McAllister in week two, and came back and apologized following the game.  It's all here on the Gridiron.  But I don't believe I'm wrong about Boo or Vick.


Sure I'll give you that you are truly a huimble guy and for the record, I was just harassin yah!
I would tend to believe you on Boo but you are DEAD WRONG on Vick.




Quote:
If I flip a coin 9 times and every time it comes up heads, then, by your logic, odds are that it will be tails when I flip it the 10th time.  However it just doesn't work that way.  I still have a 50/50 chance with the tenth flip.  The coin doesn't know about the odds.  But by saying that Boo Williams traditionally starts off slowly, and then posts nice numbers in the second half of the year indicates more than a trend... it indicates that he might be doing something specifically to affect that outcome.  You say that he doesn't get into shape in the off-season (a fact that I am ignorant of) and that would directly lead to the that outcome.


Coins as compared to NFL player trends. Apples and oranges. We've gone through this in our last discussion regarding Vickster. Your not allowed to mix the apples w/ the oranges, LOL. try again!

As far as me saying Boo wasn't in shape for the offseason - if I did, I meant opposite - he was in the BEST shape of his career in this particular offseason which is WHY its unsettling to see him embark on his sameold trend your trying to sell.



Quote:
Guess you haven't been paying attention.  Dunn got hurt last week and was just upgraded from questionable to probable on the injury list today.  As a coach, I know I have another capable runner, so why not let Dunn take a little more time to rest his knee since I should be able to have success running Duckett against the Cards weak D-line?


I have been paying attention and you are assuming I didn't know Dunn has a little boo boo that ain't gonna stop huim from playing. This is a NATURAL part of the NFL season as the sport itself is a violent one. You don't sit your starters just cuz, their nicked w/ a boo boo.

But for my team's sake, I would like to see Duckett get some more carries, but, I have read that he shopwed up a bit overweight in the offseason which is a shame. Also, Dunn is a better fit for the west coast.
Title: Re: what happened to Boo?
Post by prm on Sep 25th, 2004, 12:17am
well, for what it's worth - i canned boo for lj smith...a td is worth 60 yards in my league and apparently, it's my understanding, the eagles have plays designed for him in the red zone...i'm a saints homer - but i think our red zone policy is pretty random - especially now  :'(...
prm...
Title: Re: what happened to Boo?
Post by Philly on Oct 11th, 2004, 10:22am
There was some panic after the second week when Boo was shut out of the box score with no receptions.  I said don't worry, Boo will be fine.

He responded.

Week 3:  3 catches for 38 yards
Week 4:  4 catches for 41 yards
Week 5:  2 catches for 24 yards and a TD

He's slowly getting involved in the offense again and is putting up decent numbers for a TE (not as good as Gonzo, Gates, or Eric Johnson, but decent nonetheless).  If Boo is your TE, continue to play him unless you have one of the top tier guys.


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