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        the Gridiron >> the Red Zone >>  Falcons Offseason Report
        
(Message started by: DirkDiggler on Feb 27^th, 2007, 3:42pm)

Title: Falcons Offseason Report
Post by DirkDiggler on Feb 27^th, 2007, 3:42pm

The Falcons tender Schaub at the highest level, requiring a 1st and 3rd rounder if another team signs him. $2 million for Schaub, pretty good for a 'back up'.

(the quotes are because I Vick is going to be on a short leash)

http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/printedition/2007/02/27/sptfalcons0227a.html

Title: Re: Falcons Offseason Report
Post by Tony_O on Mar 2^nd, 2007, 8:27pm

The Falcons pay Big for Big Fullback!

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2785966

Title: Re: Falcons Offseason Report
Post by Tony_O on Mar 7^th, 2007, 6:03pm

The Falcons grab Horn from division rival Saints....

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2791102

Title: Re: Falcons Offseason Report
Post by Tony_O on Mar 7^th, 2007, 6:04pm

The Falcons add depth to their Defensive secondary.....

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2791063

Title: Re: Falcons Offseason Report
Post by DirkDiggler on Mar 7^th, 2007, 9:37pm

on 03/07/07 at 18:03:09, Tony_O wrote:

The Falcons grab Horn from division rival Saints....

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2791102

Another receiver that Mike Vick will not be able to hit even when he is wide open.....

Title: Re: Falcons Offseason Report
Post by StegRock on Mar 8^th, 2007, 4:27am

on 03/07/07 at 21:37:48, DirkDiggler wrote:

Another receiver that Mike Vick will not be able to hit even when he is wide open.....

:-/

I think this gives him his FIRST "mature" receiver to work with. Aside from injury woes, Horn has shown he can still put up numbers and gives Vick the best target he's ever had... BY FAR... out of the wide receiver position. This also revitalizes Horn's fantasy value. I mean... don't get ridiculous, but Top 20-25 is surely a possibility.

Title: Re: Falcons Offseason Report
Post by Philly on Mar 21^st, 2007, 3:42pm

Matt Schaub to be traded to the Texans. (DD first posted this story in the Texans thread, so props to him. I have a different link, so I thought I'd put it here for the Falcons fans.)

Here's another link:

http://www.nfl.com/nflnetwork/story/10078226

Title: Re: Falcons Offseason Report
Post by StegRock on Apr 9^th, 2007, 10:25pm

And, the backup is... [smiley=drummer.gif] according to "The REAL Feed":

Falcons sign QB Harrington as backup for Vick (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2830712&campaign=rss&source=NFLHeadlines)
ESPN: NFL (09.04.2007 13:31)
ESPN's Chris Mortensen is reporting the Atlanta Falcons have agreed to terms with free agent quarterback Joey Harrington on a two-year contract.

Title: Re: Falcons Offseason Report
Post by StegRock on Jun 1^st, 2007, 5:14am

This has been,... eh-hem,... is going to continue to be some nightmare, huh??? From "The REAL Feed":

Prosecutor says informants have linked Vick to dogfighting (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/football/nfl/wires/05/31/2020.ap.fbn.vick.investigation.1st.ld.writethru.0473/index.html)
SI.com: NFL (31.05.2007 17:10)

I guess Vick finds himself too tired from running around so much to walk his doggies. [smiley=peedog.gif] That's an argument for getting him to stay in the pocket if I ever heard one. ;)

Title: Re: Falcons Offseason Report
Post by StegRock on Jul 17^th, 2007, 6:07pm

Vick INDICTED!!! From "The REAL Feed":

Falcons QB Vick indicted in dogfighting probe (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2940065&campaign=rss&source=NFLHeadlines)
ESPN: NFL (17.07.2007 17:19)
Michael Vick has been indicted by a federal grand jury in connection with the dogfighting probe of his house in Virginia.

What a change of events!!! [smiley=nervous.gif] ... [smiley=no.gif]

Title: Re: Falcons Offseason Report
Post by Philly on Jul 17^th, 2007, 11:19pm

Wonder how Bobby feels about shuttling Schaub out of town so quickly now?

Title: Re: Falcons Offseason Report
Post by DirkDiggler on Jul 18^th, 2007, 7:03am

This is going to be interesting. What are the Falcons going to do?

Vicks trial will probably not occur until after the season. I am not sure the NFL or Falcons organization has any legal grounds to suspend him. So odds are Vick will probably play out the season.

I would hate to be the Falcons and have to deal with this. What a public relations nightmare. Do they suspend him with pay? Do they let him play?

Not to mention, how targeted is Vick going to be if he does play? Vick had better hope that the opposing LBs are not dog owners..... he is going to get crushed.

Title: Re: Falcons Offseason Report
Post by Philly on Jul 18^th, 2007, 10:54am

Yikes... the NFL whiffed on this one. They issued as vanilla a statement as could be drafted. Commish Goodell is perfectly willing to suspend Pacman Jones for an entire season despite the fact that he has not been convicted of any crimes. Tank Johnson got cut by the Bears for driving while not quite intoxicated (by the letter of the law).

I don't have any problems with the NFL coming down hard on repeat offenders. But Vick fits into that category too. The whole Ron Mexico issue, the Aquafina bottle... But the league seems to want to step back and not get involved in this one. Yes, he has been charged, but not committed of any crime yet. Should that stop them from suspending him until a decision is made? It happens all the time in other fields -- for example, police officers suspended from their jobs pending investigations. I have no idea why the league feels the need to promote him (in the past, obviously) when he's done next to nothing as an NFL QB, or the need to protect him now when he clearly isn't interested in toeing the NFL line outside (or even on the sidelines of) the game.

Title: Re: Falcons Offseason Report
Post by StegRock on Jul 18^th, 2007, 3:47pm

More gnarly nuts and bolts of the situation... From "The REAL Feed":

Vick court appearance set for first day of practice (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2941014&campaign=rss&source=NFLHeadlines)
ESPN: NFL (18.07.2007 13:34)
Michael Vick is scheduled to make his first court appearance on July 26. That is the same day the Falcons are scheduled for the initial on-field practice under first-year coach Bobby Petrino.

This -> [smiley=coolit.gif] instead of this -> [smiley=helmethead.gif] ... [smiley=no.gif]

Title: Re: Falcons Offseason Report
Post by StegRock on Jul 18^th, 2007, 4:19pm

[offtopic]Okay,... I got to get this out of my system. What sucks about this most for me is that in the GBRFL I have to stand behind this scumbag and actually hope that he "gets off"... [smiley=no.gif] What a totally horrible situation to be in. EVERY moral bone in my body says, assuming this goes the way it looks to be going, "Fry him!" Instead,... I got to hope for... awww, crap... [smiley=gimmeabreak.gif] This is an area where fantasy football sucks and rubs me the wrong way (and, frankly speaking, takes some of the wind out of my sails... [smiley=bawling.gif] out of the sails of this hobby that I love and over which I have maintained and made good friendships). [smiley=nono.gif][/offtopic]

Title: Re: Falcons Offseason Report
Post by StegRock on Jul 19^th, 2007, 5:34pm

The latest on this terrible situation... from "The REAL Feed":

Vick could still face charges in Virginia as well (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2942125&campaign=rss&source=NFLHeadlines)
ESPN: NFL (19.07.2007 13:43)
Michael Vick's troubles might not end at the federal courthouse steps.

Vick's troubles suspend release of Nike product (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/football/nfl/wires/07/19/2020.ap.fbn.vick.nike.1st.ld.writethru.0341/index.html)
SI.com: NFL (19.07.2007 16:43)

Title: Re: Falcons Offseason Report
Post by StegRock on Jul 20^th, 2007, 12:06pm

Imported from the "Culpepper" thread...

on 07/20/07 at 09:38:58, Philly wrote:

I'm not in the Atlanta area, but what I heard from Ike Reese (former Philadelphia Eagles and Atlanta Falcons LB and special teams ace) is that Arthur Blank has been accused of coddling Vick a bit during his tenure and the fan base is now looking directly to Blank to see what he's going to do in this situation.

This is fairly common knowledge. This is what they've been saying on ESPN.

Quote:

I wouldn't be surprised if the Falcons just went with Harrington all season and prepared themselves for a terrible year and a shot at QB Brian Brohm (remember, new coach Bobby Petrino coached him at Louisville) early in the draft next spring.

This is solid speculation. [smiley=yes.gif] Good show! [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Title: Re: Falcons Offseason Report
Post by StegRock on Jul 23^rd, 2007, 8:35pm

Here's likely the beginning of the end... of, at least, Michael Vick's '07 campaign... From "The REAL Feed":

Michael Vick ordered to stay out of training camp (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/football/nfl/wires/07/23/2020.ap.fbn.vick.leave.0168/index.html)
SI.com: NFL (23.07.2007 20:16)

Title: Re: Falcons Offseason Report
Post by StegRock on Jul 24^th, 2007, 4:06pm

This is not a new report. But, look at how far and wide "The REAL Feed" reaches... Check out THIS source... [smiley=checkin.gif] ... [smiley=ohshit.gif]

NFL's Vick ordered to stay out of training camp (http://news.findlaw.com/ap/o/51/07-24-2007/0e73000d4de83d5a.html)
FindLaw: Sports (24.07.2007 15:40)
DAVE GOLDBERG AP Football Writer (AP) - NEW YORK-NFL star Michael Vick was ordered by commissioner Roger Goodell on Monday to stay away from the Atlanta Falcons' training camp until the league reviews the dogfighting charges against him.

"The REAL Feed (http://www.fantasyfootballer.com/newsstand.htm)" REALLY is your source for NFL info!!! [smiley=thumbsup.gif] ... [smiley=yes.gif]

Title: Re: Falcons Offseason Report
Post by StegRock on Jul 24^th, 2007, 4:18pm

I'm watching Arthur Blank and Rich McKay's press conference right now... The bottom line, they are going to let Goodell's NFL investigative process as well as the legal process proceed. Vick will not be permitted to participate in Falcons' training camp until the NFL's investigation is complete and, then, he may receive, at least, the four-week suspension based on the findings of that investigation. Presumably, at this point, after that four-week suspension or if the NFL's investigation concludes in Vick's favor, he will be allowed to play. Of course, this is not to say that the Falcons could not suspend him, or Vick could not decide to step away himself. We'll just have to wait and see. What Blank and McKay have said today, ultimately, is about as non-committal in any particular direction as it could have been. Mind you, that's not necessarily a criticism. It just is what it is right now. The media is really pushing ahead of where it is. Again, we're just going to have to be patient and wait this thing out. Until further notice, however, Vick is NOT a good fantasy pick-up. He's virtually undraftable as this writer humbly sees it.

Title: Re: Falcons Offseason Report
Post by StegRock on Jul 24^th, 2007, 9:53pm

Here's the actual papers that were filed for the indictment, brought to you by FantasyFootballer.com:

http://www.fantasyfootballer.com/vick-indictment.pdf.

It's ugly, for sure. [smiley=zombie.gif] But, it isn't really clear how much Vick himself was involved in the real grisly stuff... :-/ Not much of a saving grace, but... at this point, you reach for whatever you can in the hopes that this guy isn't the total scumbag we're thinking he is right now...

Title: Re: Falcons Offseason Report
Post by Drew Rosenhaus on Jul 25^th, 2007, 4:48pm

Out for all of training camp? ATL news keeps getting worse...

Warrick Dunn out through Training Camp (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2948955)

Title: Re: Falcons Offseason Report
Post by StegRock on Aug 13^th, 2007, 2:49pm

Latest on Vick... It's not thE (long "e") bad news... yet... From "The REAL Feed":

NFL dismisses report of imminent Vick suspension (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2972161&campaign=rss&source=NFLHeadlines)
ESPN: NFL (13.08.2007 09:16)
The NFL dismissed a report Sunday that said commissioner Roger Goodell was close to announcing a season-long suspension of embattled Falcons quarterback Michael Vick for his alleged involvement in sponsoring a dogfighting operation.

NFL: Investigation of Atlanta QB still underway (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/falcons/2007-08-13-vick-investigation-continues_N.htm?csp=34)
USA TODAY: Sports (13.08.2007 14:10)
The NFL has yet to complete its investigation of Atlanta Falcons quarterback Michael Vick, who has been charged with operating ...

Title: Re: Falcons Offseason Report
Post by StegRock on Aug 14^th, 2007, 6:08am

Just bringing this pathetic tale up to the moment... with headlines off "The REAL Feed":

Vick's remaining co-defendants set hearings for plea agreements (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/football/nfl/wires/08/13/2080.ap.fbn.vick.co.defendants.0297/index.html)
SI.com: NFL (13.08.2007 21:33)

Noose tightens around Vick at amazing speed (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/football/nfl/wires/08/14/2020.ap.fbn.tim.dahlberg.081408.0799/index.html)
SI.com: NFL (14.08.2007 02:58)

Title: Re: Falcons Offseason Report
Post by DirkDiggler on Aug 14^th, 2007, 6:59am

on 08/14/07 at 06:08:25, StegRock wrote:

Yes, what was a bad situation for Vick just got MUCH worse. Hard to deny it when EVERYONE is going to say you were actively involved. And unfortunately for Vick, the guys who are pleading are not really getting any special favors from the government.

Vick has until Friday to plea, otherwise it sounds like the charge of 'conspiracy' to commit a crime will become the charge of actually doing the crime. (which gets you a lot more time in the clink.)

So Vick is done. He will not be back in the NFL, ever. No team would dare sign him even if he were not banned. My personal opinion is the NFL will ban him for life based on the illegal gambling that occured.

Imagine how proud Ms Vick must be. Both of her sons had such talent, but both wasted it as they turned out to be such model citizens.

Title: Re: Falcons Offseason Report
Post by StegRock on Aug 14^th, 2007, 6:38pm

Here's the latest "official" word... from off "The REAL Feed":

Vick in plea negotiations (http://www.sportsnetwork.com/default.asp?c=sportsnetwork&page=/nfl/news/ABN4096875.htm)
The Sports Network: NFL (14.08.2007 17:58)

[offtopic]Though I surely think you could be right, DD,... (we'll know for fact soon enough) I wonder if you'd say what you say above if you had him on your GBRFL team, or, for that matter, if I didn't have him... I just have to wonder anymore... That's all... :-/ It is what it is...[/offtopic]

Title: Re: Falcons Offseason Report
Post by Callie on Aug 14^th, 2007, 6:59pm

Well, ESPN just said that the plea deal is something about a year out of football. No word if anyone wants to accept that. But guys keep showing up to give up Vick to protect their own butts, so I guess that's probably why Vick is anxious to deal. And I doubt if that will be enough if the law has enough to convict for more. They raided that home in VA, so they must have had something to start things up.

Title: Re: Falcons Offseason Report
Post by StegRock on Aug 14^th, 2007, 10:07pm

Well, off the same old, same old on this thread... [smiley=dog.gif] [smiley=no.gif] and on to different Falcons QB news rollin' off "The REAL Feed":

Chris Redman moves ahead of D.J. Shockley on Falcons QB depth chart (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/football/nfl/wires/08/14/2020.ap.fbn.training.camp.rdp.1278/index.html)
SI.com: NFL (14.08.2007 21:33)

Honestly, this was foreseeable,... so much so that I had already accounted for Redman over at StegsList.com (http://www.stegslist.com) in my next update. [smiley=swollenhead.gif] (Pat self on back.) :D Remember Redman played for Petrino at Louisville. This is actually a development to continue tracking [smiley=radar.gif] as we all know that Harrington is far from a sure bet to make it through the season as the Falcons' starting QB.

Title: Re: Falcons Offseason Report
Post by StegRock on Aug 15^th, 2007, 9:46pm

Alright,... whew,... :P permit me my rebuttal to DD and the general hype(rbole) right now... I'm not going to be tendentious about this... The psychology behind this post and the reason I even care to post it surely has to do with the fact that I have (protected) Vick in the GBRFL. The thinking and reasoning that went into the formulation of my position, however, is what it is. I'm trying to see through the popular hype into what I think the truth of the matter is. In any event, you can evaluate the reasoning and the argument yourselves. Without further ado...

Not only do I NOT think that Vick's career is over, but I think,... contrary to popular "opinion" right now,... this plea-bargaining of two more of his cohorts forces his hand in a good way and is going to save his career rather than end it insofar as the key to his coming back in the long run is a public APOLOGY. Heretofore, he has been legally prevented from being contrite because he initially plead not guilty to the charges. But, with ALL his cohorts now plea-bargaining and ready to testify against him, he's almost definitely going to have to plea-bargain himself. ONCE HE DOES, he can be openly apologetic!!! This is not to mention that with a plea-bargain he avoids a, what seems to be inevitable, conviction by trial, which surely would have cost him MUCH more jail time, enough to, for all intents and purposes, end his career, and, in any event, would have caused him to severely delay, if not altogether have to avoid, a meaningful apology, the value of which would be compromised, if not totally nullified, anyway by a conviction. Instead, with a plea-bargain, he'll probably only have to serve six months to a year in jail, and, MOST IMPORTANTLY, he'll be able to APOLOGIZE immediately, thoroughly and genuinely for his misdeeds and start the process of forgiveness, healing and making a comeback. We're a (Judeo-Christian) second-chances society, one for which time does heal. Once he apologizes, people will start to forgive him, and, even though this season is almost definitely over for him, if he's out of jail by next season and willing and able to play, some team,... eh-hem,... teamS will be willing to take a shot, and, frankly speaking, they'd be stupid not to. The guy's still a human being and deserves forgiveness (especially since, according to the indictment, which is available for download right here at FantasyFootballer.com: http://www.fantasyfootballer.com/vick-indictment.pdf, it was really these other scumbags who were the ones primarily involved in the really hideous stuff; Vick mainly provided the bankroll). I say get that plea done as agreeably and as soon as possible and immediately thereafter make that public apology, which will, as inevitable as a conviction right now seems, inevitably commence the healing process. Furthermore, I think he'll come back a better man and, thus, an even better, more heady player. Unlike Allen Iverson, et al., Vick will have experienced first-hand and in a VERY costly way how these "hanger-onners" turned their backs on him and, come time to come back, will have dropped them like the bad habit they are.

Title: Re: Falcons Offseason Report
Post by StegRock on Aug 16^th, 2007, 4:52pm

Well, especially vis-a-vis my post right above, in which I attempt to get at the pith of the matter, I fear posting the latest on "The REAL Feed" regarding the Vick situation because it really is starting to amount to "too many facts" and "too much information" and, as such, for fear that "we will no longer be able to see the forest amidst the trees", [smiley=wiseman.gif] but here it is:

No deal yet in Vick dogfighting conspiracy case (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/football/nfl/wires/08/16/2020.ap.fbn.michael.vick.0679/index.html)
SI.com: NFL (16.08.2007 15:16)

NFL commissioner on Vick story: "I don't think it's overshadowing the season. (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/football/nfl/wires/08/16/2020.ap.fbn.goodell.vick.1st.ld.writethru.0632/index.html)
SI.com: NFL (16.08.2007 13:34)

Title: Re: Falcons Offseason Report
Post by DirkDiggler on Aug 16^th, 2007, 7:06pm

on 08/15/07 at 21:46:08, StegRock wrote:

I must agree with you Steg. Yes, we are a society that easily forgives. However, I believe you are forgetting one thing. While we could forgive and even glorify someone who may harm another human being, I do not think this society can forgive someone who harms an animal in such a brutal way. On the surface, this makes ZERO sense. However, people love their pets. The humane society and PETA will NOT let this go away, EVER! You may be correct that he will serve his 6 months to a year and get out. But I dare say that NO NFL owner would dare sign him. Do you want 5,000 people picketing your team?

The other big assumption is that Roger Goodell would even let him back in the league. He gets out of prison, then is suspended for 1 year. Remember, illegal gambling occured at the property.

All of a sudden he is 30 years old and looking to get back in the NFL. Remember, he was NOT that good a QB. He was very much an average QB who could run. I do not think he would be in demand.

You put all of these together......even one of the three, and you can say DONE, OVER, FINISHED.

So while you are right that the pleas of his friends may ultimately help him, they are not going to help him get back into the league.

Title: Re: Falcons Offseason Report
Post by StegRock on Aug 17^th, 2007, 3:45am

on 08/16/07 at 19:06:26, DirkDiggler wrote:

I must agree with you Steg.

Well, that was one of those fairly meaningless, patronizing "I agree with yous"... and now I'm going to continue on where I left off without any substantive, no less substantial, engagement with you. This kind of "I agree with you, BUT" bullshit just shows you how sackless we've become in libbo America. Just tell me you disagree or say nothing regarding agreeability and state your case (again, if need be). Otherwise, just let the two arguments stand, and we'll see how it plays out in the long run, in any event. Perhaps, as it unfolds, one of us will move toward the other's position. I'm not married to my position. It's just the way I see it right now. You see it differently... in the way that most do right now. Again, I do NOT agree with your position, and you do NOT agree with mine. Fine... It is what it is. Don't say or intimate otherwise. We are evidently not going to find a middle ground in this case where we find ourselves genuinely in agreement, and acting "agreeable" doesn't change things, i.e., agreeableness does not = agreement. In fact, it's just another layer of bullshit.

Quote:

Remember, he was NOT that good a QB. He was very much an average QB who could run. I do not think he would be in demand.

VERY debatable point... His win-loss record was quite respectable, actually, and statistically he's not all too dissimilar from a young John Elway through the early years of his career. Anyway, age 30 is when Terry Bradshaw finally matured and became the great quarterback we remember, and QB's can last until age 40 anymore. If permitted to play, some team will take a chance on him. I will admit that it is hard for me to predict what Goodell will do. I, right now, maintain that with a hearty, hardy apology, Vick will be allowed to play.

Quote:

While we could forgive and even glorify someone who may harm another human being, I do not think this society can forgive someone who harms an animal in such a brutal way. On the surface, this makes ZERO sense. However, people love their pets. The humane society and PETA will NOT let this go away, EVER! You may be correct that he will serve his 6 months to a year and get out. But I dare say that NO NFL owner would dare sign him. Do you want 5,000 people picketing your team?

There are two points on which I challenge you here...

First, the lesser point,... have you actually read the indictment? Vick is NOT named as a perpetrator in almost all of the most vile acts against the dogs, i.e. the executions of dogs deemed unworthy of combat; in fact, he is only named once as regards the dog disposals, and he is NEVER named as a SOLE perpetrator of any execution; in fact, he is only ever named as one of three perps. The guys turning on him are the ones who, according to the indictment, did all those heinous acts. Don't get me wrong. It's all bad. But, lets get the facts straight. This hyperbolic media commentary we're getting fed, by ESPN included, comes off as if Vick himself was strangling puppies with his bare hands. Really, he was mainly the financier, and he surely attended the dog fights. That's bad enough. But, Vick was not at all the main guy partaking in the most heinous stuff in the indictment which Tom Jackson, bless his dear heart, would have us believe.

Second, the stronger point,... your argument belies your claim of agreement with me that we are a fogiving, "second chances" society (which just goes to show the insincerity or, at least, lack of substance of that initial "I must agree with you"). This is the case no matter how you cut it up... As long as he apologizes and serves his time, if we are a truly forgiving, "second chances" society, then either PETA and the "humane" society would accept his apology and forgive him, which I think the latter would do, or the rest of us would and in doing so turn a deaf ear to the PETA people, who have their own VERY lurid, violent and dubious history and modus operandi, mind you. A year or so from now and a jail sentence served and an apology later, 5,000 (a tendentiously hyperbolic number) PETA freaks wouldn't be showing up anywhere. Maybe a few dozen would show up at his signing and his first handful of practices,... that is, if he doesn't become a spokesperson for the ASPCA or something, making up for his misdeeds (or, dare I say it, mistakes) by apologetically speaking out against the dogfighting industry as an insider. In any event, though, it would die out... as most things that should in a truly forgiving, "second chances" society do. Otherwise, we fail to meet the definition of a truly forgiving, "second chances" society. Financing and partaking in the dogfighting industry is terrible, but it's not forever unforgivable... unless you live in an unforgiving society.

Quote:

So while you are right that the pleas of his friends may ultimately help him, they are not going to help him get back into the league.

Here we go either again with a meaningless, insincere and tendentious "show" of agreement or just sheer sarcasm or not a very well thought out statement as my very point was that it was all going to help him in terms of recovering his NFL career. So, no, I am not right. You don't have to patronize me with a pretense of agreeability.

...

Moreover, with the zeal you write about this with, it comes off as though you want the guy's career to be "DONE, OVER, FINISHED". Your posts don't exemplify much in the way of compassion and forgiveness. Perhaps, that's part of why you are pessimistic regarding America's ability to forgive Vick here.

But, anyway, I don't need to read a post by you, Steve, to hear this position. It's the position the media is inundating us with ad nauseam. By and large, there's no original insight in what you're writing here. It's just the same old, same old Vick bash session en vogue right now (which I wonder if you'd be partaking in if you had him).

Title: Re: Falcons Offseason Report
Post by DirkDiggler on Aug 17^th, 2007, 7:26pm

Quote:

By and large, there's no original insight in what you're writing here. It's just the same old, same old Vick bash session en vogue right now

The point was to counter your point. I offered an opinion. The fact that my opinion is 'en vogue' is irrelevant. I did not know the point of the board to spew some facts and news that you did not know. I was making a point to counter your opinion.

Your OPINION was not based entirely in fact. You gave your opinion and included many generalities and assumptions about a 'forgiving society'. I too gave an opinion.

Quote:

(which I wonder if you'd be partaking in if you had him).

I wish you would quit taking the shot that my opinion of everything is based on the GBRFL.(this is at least the second time) You are very wrong. I have a life outside of the GBRFL, just like you. I could actually counter that YOUR opinion is being influenced by you owning him.

In fact, I actually had Mike Vick as my keeper in the GOTG (before the league fell into the state it is in). I IMMEDIATELY dropped him from my protection list.

I will grant you that I thought Mike Vick stood an outside chance of 'winning' had there been 3 defendants, however, with everyone against him, he does not stand a chance of winning. There is not going to be an OJ miracle.

Quote:

You don't have to patronize me with a pretense of agreeability.

Here is what I found about patronizing at dictonary.com:

2 patronize, patronise, condescend --treat condescendingly

I find it ironic that I am the one being accused of patronizing.

Quote:

First, the lesser point,... have you actually read the indictment? Vick is NOT named as a perpetrator in almost all of the most vile acts against the dogs, i.e. the executions of dogs deemed unworthy of combat; in fact, he is only named once as regards the dog disposals, and he is NEVER named as a SOLE perpetrator of any execution; in fact, he is only ever named as one of three perps

Do you think it really matters if he actually killed the dogs or just watched and financed the operation? Second, there can be superceding indictments. Third, word breaking today is that he did actually participate in the killings that occured in April. (yes, it is rumor still) Bottom line, no matter what, he is fucked in the court of public opinion.

Quote:

Moreover, with the zeal you write about this with, it comes off as though you want the guy's career to be "DONE, OVER, FINISHED". Your posts don't exemplify much in the way of compassion and forgiveness. Perhaps, that's part of why you are pessimistic regarding America's ability to forgive Vick here.

Yes, I am rooting for him to be screwed. But ultimately, it does not really matter what I want. What matters are the facts that he commited a heinous crime, the evidence against him is very much against him, and the facts point to him not getting back in the NFL. And ultimately, I do not think the cruelty will keep him out as much as the gambling portion will.(and the court of public opinion). And while America is overall a forgiving society(see Jason Giambi,Leonard Little), I do not think they will forgive somebody for torturing Tippy, Crackers, and Taffy the dogs. Can you imagine your first pet being raped? That is what Mike Vick participated in. What NFL owner would want him as the face of their team?

So yes, Mike Vick is "DONE, OVER, FINISHED". Betwen jail, suspension, and the cancer he is, he will not be back in the NFL.

Title: Re: Falcons Offseason Report
Post by StegRock on Aug 17^th, 2007, 11:43pm

[smiley=RIP.gif]

I have not the energy... I am only going to bother to respond to these couple things...

on 08/17/07 at 19:26:35, DirkDiggler wrote:

It's just that it doesn't add anything to "the Gridiron". It's just regurgitation of what you can read anywhere. It doesn't display any thinking outside the box or anything unique that we can call our own. And, this sentence of yours is just egregiously... bad: "I did not know the point of the board to spew some facts and news that you did not know." WTF does that even mean? Well, it, at least, describes what you think of the formulation of my take. But, if you think that is what I did or do or like to see done on "the Gridiron",... [smiley=gimmeabreak.gif] you are WAY OFF-base. What I relish here are thinking outside the box and thoughtfully processing what we know so as to provide unique perspectives and insights. What you say there just sounds mean... on so many (offensive) levels. :-/

Quote:

I do not think they will forgive somebody for torturing Tippy, Crackers, and Taffy the dogs. Can you imagine your first pet being raped? That is what Mike Vick participated in.

That's the tendentious shell game being played right now. It's just tendentious rhetoric. As horrible as this is, it isn't "Tippy, Crackers and Taffy", so to speak, your average lovable family pet, we're talking about here. This is the dogfighting industry. It's a world unimaginable to most of us. But, we have to stop calling apples oranges if we're going to see the true pith of the matter. I mean,... if we want to stretch analogies,... what's going on here is much more analogous to the lab testing of animals for, say, AIDS research, or whatever, a much more knotty issue, mind you, than the beating of your lovable pet pooch, who begs at the dinner table and plays with your children. And, there are cultures where dogfighting and cockfighting are age-old traditions. It just so happens that one of them is a sub-culture of our very own. But, anyway, I'm going all over the place here myself now. The point is, it's not the same, and you need to stop tendentiously representing it as such. Just represent it for what it is. It's bad enough.

Title: Re: Falcons Offseason Report
Post by StegRock on Aug 18^th, 2007, 3:44am

Okay,... let me get back to the labor of reporting the "facts"... (Just to be absolutely clear,... these kinds of posts are NOT original writings; they're just news updates with links.) Here's an assortment of the latest headlines from off "The REAL Feed" regarding Vick:

2 Vick co-defendants plead guilty; Vick accused of executing dogs (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/football/nfl/wires/08/17/2020.ap.fbn.vick.co.defendants.8th.ld.writethru.0810/index.html)
SI.com: NFL (17.08.2007 13:52)

NFL's Vick weighs plea deal in dog-fighting case (http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews.aspx?type=sportsNews&storyid=2007-08-17T203741Z_01_N17457776_RTRUKOC_0_US-USA-CRIME-VICK.xml)
Reuters: Sports (17.08.2007 16:52)
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Two defendants in the dog-fighting case involving Atlanta Falcons quarterback Michael Vick pleaded guilty on Friday as the U.S. football star weighed whether to do the same or go to trial, sources said.

Blank shocked by latest developments (http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Football/NFL/2007/08/17/4426294-ap.html)
SLAM! Sports NFL (17.08.2007 20:31)

NFL: Lawyers advise Vick to accept a deal with federal prosecutors (http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/08/17/sports/VICK.php)
IHT: Sports (17.08.2007 07:19)
The deal would most likely come with a recommendation from prosecutors that Vick, the Atlanta Falcons quarterback, be sentenced to one to two years in prison for his role in a dogfighting case.

Co-defendant links Vick to killing of at least 8 dogs (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/football/nfl/wires/08/17/2020.ap.fbn.vick.co.defendants.10th.ld.writethru.0993/index.html)
SI.com: NFL (17.08.2007 20:46)

Meanwhile...

Harrington not impressive as Falcons edge Bills (http://www.sportsnetwork.com/default.asp?c=sportsnetwork&page=/nfl/news/ABN4097488.htm)
The Sports Network: NFL (17.08.2007 22:28)

And...

Falcons QB Shockley leaves game in fourth quarter with leg injury (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/football/nfl/wires/08/17/2020.ap.fbn.falcons.shockley.injured.0153/index.html)
SI.com: NFL (17.08.2007 22:10)

...

Eh-hem,... [smiley=whistle.gif] Redman (see post above, August 14th, 10:07 p.m. EST)... [smiley=secret.gif]

Title: Re: Falcons Offseason Report
Post by StegRock on Aug 20^th, 2007, 3:00am

Again, this is interesting only insofar as it makes Chris Redman an intriguing fantasy deep-sleeper... [smiley=sleepers.gif] From "The REAL Feed":

Sources: Falcons QB Shockley finished for season (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/trainingcamp07/news/story?id=2982212&campaign=rss&source=NFLHeadlines)
ESPN: NFL (20.08.2007 00:52)
A quarterback depth chart already perilously thin because of the ongoing absence of Michael Vick became even more threadbare Sunday, as the Atlanta Falcons lost second-year veteran D.J. Shockley to a left knee injury sustained in Friday night's preseason

Title: Re: Falcons Offseason Report
Post by DirkDiggler on Aug 20^th, 2007, 3:28pm

Vick admits guilt!!!!

http://sportsline.com/nfl/story/10307169

Here is a statement from his lawyer:

After consulting with his family over the weekend, Michael Vick asked that I announce today that he has reached an agreement with federal prosecutors regarding the charges pending against him.

"Mr. Vick has agreed to enter a plea of guilty to those charges and to accept full responsibility for his actions and the mistakes he has made. Michael wishes to apologize again to everyone who has been hurt by this matter."

Title: Re: Falcons Offseason Report
Post by StegRock on Aug 23^rd, 2007, 10:47pm

on 08/20/07 at 03:00:34, StegRock wrote:

Confirmed... on "The REAL Feed":

Falcons place QB D.J. Shockley, WR Jamin Elliott on injured reserve (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/football/nfl/wires/08/23/2020.ap.fbn.falcons.shockley.0161/index.html)
SI.com: NFL (23.08.2007 17:52)

Move Redman UP your charts! He should probably crack the top 50 quarterbacks easy... and is a real, nice sleeper [smiley=sleepers.gif] right now... [smiley=yes.gif]

Title: Re: Falcons Offseason Report
Post by StegRock on Aug 24^th, 2007, 8:44pm

Well,... as it turns out,... the NFL suspension comes down before the justice system's sentence... From "The REAL Feed":

NFL suspends quarterback Michael Vick indefinitely after he files plea (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/football/nfl/wires/08/24/2020.ap.fbn.michael.vick.13th.ld.writethru.1168/index.html)
SI.com: NFL (24.08.2007 19:43)

Title: Re: Falcons Offseason Report
Post by StegRock on Aug 27^th, 2007, 4:27pm

Well, we knew the guilty plea was coming today... He followed it with what he REALLY needed to do... to commence his eventual (attempt to) return to the NFL. From "The REAL Feed":

Vick Issues Apology After Guilty Plea (http://news.lycos.com/dynamic/stories/F/FBN_VICK_PLEA?SITE=LYCOS&SECTION=SPORTS&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2007-08-27-13-11-38)
LYCOS News: Football (27.08.2007 13:51)
RICHMOND, Va. (AP) -- Michael Vick apologized to the NFL and the Atlanta Falcons on Monday for "using bad judgment and making bad decisions" and vowed to redeem himself after pleading guilty to a dogfighting charge....

I thought the apology was as sincere as it could be. It could have been more thorough and articulate, but, as regards the latter, as my mom says, "You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear." He is who he is... It will be interesting to see who he will become... how he will reinvent himself...

Title: Re: Falcons Offseason Report
Post by Philly on Aug 27^th, 2007, 7:24pm

I'm not sure I buy the sincerity of the apology. The guy has lied to everyone, all along. I imagine he thought he would escape the allegations until his cronies started turning on him. Then all of a sudden his tack changes? And now, after pleading guilty (sort of... he's still denying any direct involvement other than providing the money for the operation) he's going to issue an apology in order to (IMHO) seek some leniency from the same system he's been jerking around all along.

I think he should serve time in jail and I think the NFL should give him a lifetime ban for his actions (not only the cruelty to animals, but also for gambling and lying to his teammates, coaches, owner, and the commissioner). If Vick ever steps onto a football field again, it will be far too soon.

Title: Re: Falcons Offseason Report
Post by Callie on Aug 27^th, 2007, 11:18pm

I'm more than willing to watch and see who he becomes, but I have a bad feeling that he's using Jesus and God in the same way he used those dogs and the bait creatures.

Title: Re: Falcons Offseason Report
Post by StegRock on Aug 30^th, 2007, 4:43am

In terms of his career, here's perhaps an even more important "hearing (out)" at which Vick will be "pleading"... From "The REAL Feed":

Vick, Goodell to meet regarding suspension (http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/football/bal-sp.nflnotes30aug30,0,5181100.story?track=rss)
SunSpot.net - Sports (30.08.2007 03:34)
Atlanta Falcons quarterback Michael Vick will get a chance to explain himself to NFL commissioner Roger Goodell, although no date has been set for a meeting.

:-/