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(Message started by: StegRock on Sep 6th, 2007, 3:54pm)
Title: Falcons In-season Report
Post by StegRock on Sep 6th, 2007, 3:54pm
Dunn's not done yet...  From "The REAL Feed":

Dunn is the one: Veteran will start for Falcons (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3007377&campaign=rss&source=NFLHeadlines)
ESPN: NFL (06.09.2007 13:31)
Warrick Dunn has held off the challenge of the younger Jerious Norwood and retained his status as the Falcons' starter at tailback.
Title: Re: Falcons In-season Report
Post by DirkDiggler on Sep 17th, 2007, 9:14pm
With Bobby Petrino blaming the Falcons offensive woes on Harrington, the Falcons are sniffing around Leftwich.  

Odds are Leftwich will sign there because it gives him the best chance to start and potentially start for the long term.  He would have to learn a new offense, but, can he be any worse than what they have? (they have scored 10 points TOTAL in 2 games)

Mort is reporting that he will be the 3rd string QB until he learns the offense.  We should know by Wednesday if this is going to happen.  

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3024857
Title: Re: Falcons In-season Report
Post by DirkDiggler on Sep 18th, 2007, 4:45pm
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3025903

The Falcons sign Leftwich to a 2 year deal worth $7 million.   You do not pay that kind of money for a 3rd string QB.   It looks like Harrington's days are numbered.  
Title: Re: Falcons In-season Report
Post by Callie on Sep 18th, 2007, 6:34pm

on 09/18/07 at 16:45:09, DirkDiggler wrote:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3025903

The Falcons sign Leftwich to a 2 year deal worth $7 million.   You do not pay that kind of money for a 3rd string QB.   It looks like Harrington's days are numbered.  


I wish Leftwich well, but Harrington got sacked something like 13 times in a couple of weeks.  Same team.   :o
Title: Re: Falcons In-season Report
Post by StegRock on Sep 24th, 2007, 9:07pm
I don't know if you can call anything Vick-[smiley=dog.gif]-related [smiley=no.gif] "in-season" or, for that matter, "Falcons-related",... but for now this seems like the right place to post this...  The latest on Vick's "trials" [smiley=coolit.gif] and tribulations,... and the news isn't good...  MORE indictments to come... according to "The REAL Feed":

RICHMOND, Va. (AP) -Surry County Prosecutor Gerald Poindexter says he will seek indictments in a dogfighting case at property owned by Atlanta Falcons quarterback Michael Vick. (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/football/nfl/wires/09/24/2020.ap.fbn.vick.surry.county.1st.ld.writethru.0500/index.html)
SI.com: NFL (24.09.2007 20:28)
Title: Re: Falcons In-season Report
Post by StegRock on Sep 26th, 2007, 3:15am
Vick supporters finally make their voices really heard...  From "The REAL Feed":

Vick supporters turn out for town meeting in Atlanta (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/football/nfl/wires/09/25/2020.ap.fbn.vick.town.meeting.0555/index.html)
SI.com: NFL (25.09.2007 21:31)
Title: Re: Falcons In-season Report
Post by Philly on Sep 26th, 2007, 8:23am

on 09/26/07 at 03:15:45, StegRock wrote:
Vick supporters finally make their voices really heard...  From "The REAL Feed":

Vick supporters turn out for town meeting in Atlanta (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/football/nfl/wires/09/25/2020.ap.fbn.vick.town.meeting.0555/index.html)
SI.com: NFL (25.09.2007 21:31)


The mere fact that there are still Vick supporters after he confessed to his role in the dogfights is embarrassing and says far too much about our society.
Title: Re: Falcons In-season Report
Post by captainpurple on Sep 26th, 2007, 12:12pm
Absolutely right.  

Race is a highly volatile issue, even today.   Many perceive a race component to this issue; however, without precedent, there's really no way to support that argument.  It basically comes down to whether you put any value on an animal's life.   In my opinion, the Vick supporters do not.  Otherwise, how could you defend him?
Title: Re: Falcons In-season Report
Post by StegRock on Sep 26th, 2007, 3:29pm
I honestly feel that those comments oversimplify the issue.  But, this is not a hill I want to die on, so...  Suffice it to say that he MUST pay for the crime he has committed, but the punishment should fit the crime.  And, the cultural dynamics at play here can't just be dismissed.  But, those cultural dynamics aside, which my little Korean wife, e.g., ain't even hearing, thinks that the level of punishment they are going after for Vick is egregious, both in legal and societal terms.  She contends that their trying to make an example of him will backfire.  She means this in the sense that punishing someone too much breeds resentment as opposed to genuine contrition.  On the level of the society at large, it is going to foster further resentment in his sympathizers and righteous indignation in his opposers (which I DEFINITELY have observed).  Going light is no better either, mind you.  Going light breeds hubris instead of genuine contrition.  In the society at large, it fosters further hubris and indignation in supporters and resentment in opposers.  The punishment has to be just right.  She feels that as a society and via the legal system he should serve around six months (she even said, perhaps, three, but I don't think that's enuogh) and he should not have his career effectively TOTALLY taken away from him.  Eighteen months and a career lost would be indicative of a mean-spirited society wrought with righteous indignation ("even if" it is PETA ::) acting as our moral guide [smiley=yikes.gif]).

(Well,... couldn't just keep it short... ;) Although, that wasnt' that bad for the old Stegger. ;D)
Title: Re: Falcons In-season Report
Post by captainpurple on Sep 26th, 2007, 7:09pm
had he stepped up the minute the feds served the 1st search warrant on his Virginia property, and stated "I did this, it was wrong, I'm sorry...", I'd agree with the 3 months.

but he lied to authorities, lied again to Branch/Falcons, lied again to the public, lied again to Goddell....only when he was backed entirely into a corner with no chance of getting out, did he decide...ok.....yeah I helped kill dogs.

IMO, you cant try as hard as possible to wiggle off the hook, then get off as light as possible when you finally get nailed.  
Title: Re: Falcons In-season Report
Post by steelkings on Sep 26th, 2007, 8:27pm
I have a dog. He is 9 years old. He is a lab/ Pit mix. His name is Newman. My kids love him. He loves them. He is quite possibly my best friend. Take a look at dog fighting. It would be insane to tolerate that at all.


http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n26/steelkings/Victim1.jpg
http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n26/steelkings/triumph0605_2.jpg
http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n26/steelkings/4YBGH0CA7EY30JCAST870OCAGWNX5NCAIP9.jpg
http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n26/steelkings/abuse2.jpg
Title: Re: Falcons In-season Report
Post by Philly on Sep 26th, 2007, 8:38pm

on 09/26/07 at 12:12:44, captainpurple wrote:
Absolutely right.  

Race is a highly volatile issue, even today.   Many perceive a race component to this issue; however, without precedent, there's really no way to support that argument.  It basically comes down to whether you put any value on an animal's life.   In my opinion, the Vick supporters do not.  Otherwise, how could you defend him?


This isn't a racial issue. This is a criminal issue. To say that Michael Vick is being treated unfairly because of his skin color is ludicrous. He's being treated the way he is because of his criminal actions.
Title: Re: Falcons In-season Report
Post by Philly on Sep 26th, 2007, 8:45pm

on 09/26/07 at 15:29:36, StegRock wrote:
I honestly feel that those comments oversimplify the issue.  But, this is not a hill I want to die on, so...  Suffice it to say that he MUST pay for the crime he has committed, but the punishment should fit the crime.  And, the cultural dynamics at play here can't just be dismissed.  But, those cultural dynamics aside, which my little Korean wife, e.g., ain't even hearing, thinks that the level of punishment they are going after for Vick is egregious, both in legal and societal terms.  She contends that their trying to make an example of him will backfire.  She means this in the sense that punishing someone too much breeds resentment as opposed to genuine contrition.  On the level of the society at large, it is going to foster further resentment in his sympathizers and righteous indignation in his opposers (which I DEFINITELY have observed).  Going light is no better either, mind you.  Going light breeds hubris instead of genuine contrition.  In the society at large, it fosters further hubris and indignation in supporters and resentment in opposers.  The punishment has to be just right.  She feels that as a society and via the legal system he should serve around six months (she even said, perhaps, three, but I don't think that's enuogh) and he should not have his career effectively TOTALLY taken away from him.  Eighteen months and a career lost would be indicative of a mean-spirited society wrought with righteous indignation ("even if" it is PETA ::) acting as our moral guide [smiley=yikes.gif]).

(Well,... couldn't just keep it short... ;) Although, that wasnt' that bad for the old Stegger. ;D)


How do we determine that cruel treatment and slaughter of animals is worth a 3, 6, or 18 month sentence? I don't think that Vick needs to be made an example of, however I don't have a problem if that is the case. He committed the crimes, and then lied about his involvement in the crimes. He deserves whatever punishment is meted out for him. But I know if I was involved in the same activities, got caught and lied about it, and then had to recant and confess, I would lose my job and have no chance of regaining my former position in my field. After serving time in jail, and with a criminal record, I would likely be going from the world of academia to the world of manual labor (where many ex-cons end up). If the NFL was to determine that they didn't want to employ Michael Vick again, why would that be so egregious?
Title: Re: Falcons In-season Report
Post by StegRock on Sep 26th, 2007, 9:03pm
I hear ya, cp.  But, I always get a laugh when everybody acts all shocked and high-and-mighty when they hear about a guy who covered up, i.e. lied, for years about an affair he was having.  I mean... that's (part and parcel of) the definition of an affair.  What's a guy, who's been (suspending all judgment... men are men and I don't like playing the judgment game in that area, at least before kids are involved) playin' around, gonna do when the old lady's suspicious?  "Oh, yea, honey...  It was me...  I've been cheating...  I've even prepped the divorce papers, though.  Sawrreeee..."  The fact that he had an affair is the "wrong" part.  The fact that he lied about it... kind of just follows.  Circumstances here are analogous, and, of course, this is all worsened when you have lawyers, who are trying to push the envelope and string it out until the last possible moment, advising you.  I mean you're asking him to incriminate himself before any proceedings.  Heck, we as Americans are NOT EVEN asked to do that in court!!!  In fact, most are advised NOT TO.  ...  Three months if he admitted to (what?) everything (or, how much would have been enough for him to admit to?), but string him since he didn't.  That don't seem... [smiley=options.gif] ... [smiley=shrug.gif]
Title: Re: Falcons In-season Report
Post by T-Rave on Sep 27th, 2007, 12:14am
Lots can be said here.  Without taking away from the fact that Vick did something wrong (and lied about it, as I think most people would/do do in such circumstances -- good point, Steg) let's look at it this way: Leonard Little got drunk at a party, got behind the wheel of a car, and killed an innocent person.  Little got three months in jail, community service, and probation.  Vick fights dogs and (allegedly) kills them, or at least watches as they're killed.  He stands to get . . . what, 12-18 months in jail?  Riddle me that.  Is human life really less valuable to us?  It would seem so.  (I think this is evidenced in the legalization of abortion, but that opens another can of worms.)
Title: Re: Falcons In-season Report
Post by StegRock on Sep 27th, 2007, 7:10am

on 09/27/07 at 00:14:43, T-Rave wrote:
(I think this is evidenced in the legalization of abortion, but that opens another can of worms.)


Actually, (great minds think alike ;) and) this is a perfect segue to where I wanted to go with this...

So, here we go again with sk and his slide-show m.o. [smiley=gimmeabreak.gif] You pull that same move when you pitch your take on the environment and global warming too.  Pull out some horrific photos (that tendentiously "illustrate" the side you're on) for shock value more than anything, mind you, and there you have it, right? [smiley=gimmeabreak.gif]

BUT, I digress...  Let me ask you, sk...  You MUST be VERY ANTI-abortion, no?  Check out the scratch-n-sniff on that...  W[smiley=ohshit.gif]W!!!  You are, right???  If NOT,... ENOUGH with the "a pictiori" (I knew you'd like that one, Rave) arguments. [smiley=nono.gif]
Title: Re: Falcons In-season Report
Post by captainpurple on Sep 27th, 2007, 9:09am

on 09/27/07 at 00:14:43, T-Rave wrote:
Leonard Little got drunk at a party, got behind the wheel of a car, and killed an innocent person.  Little got three months in jail, community service, and probation.  Vick fights dogs and (allegedly) kills them, or at least watches as they're killed.  He stands to get . . . what, 12-18 months in jail?  Riddle me that.  Is human life really less valuable to us?  It would seem so.  (I think this is evidenced in the legalization of abortion, but that opens another can of worms.)


the problem with this argument is that it ignores intent.  Little didn't intend to kill someone, and being a (I believe)  first time DUI offender, he was only charged with involuntary manslaughter....SOMETHING HE PLEAD GUILTY TO!  no lawyers, no Cochran, no NAACP, no Sharpton, no Jackson, no Rainbow Coalition....he took his punishment.... which, BTW, also included a half season unpaid suspension!

Vick's case is the entirely opposite of the spectrum.   Yes, it was dogs, but there was intent, there were multiple, multiple instances of the crime, and he did NOT stand up and apologize or admit guilt until forced to.  

I don't even let me 4 year old get away with finally telling me the truth after I've proven to him I know he's lying.   He gets punished for lying in the first place!

Little got off light, in part, because he admitted to it immediately, and because it was accidental.  Neither of these elements exist in the Vick case.
Title: Re: Falcons In-season Report
Post by captainpurple on Sep 27th, 2007, 9:20am

on 09/26/07 at 21:03:32, StegRock wrote:
I hear ya, cp.  But, I always get a laugh when everybody acts all shocked and high-and-mighty when they hear about a guy who covered up, i.e. lied, for years about an affair he was having.  I mean... that's (part and parcel of) the definition of an affair.  What's a guy, who's been (suspending all judgment... men are men and I don't like playing the judgment game in that area, at least before kids are involved) playin' around, gonna do when the old lady's suspicious?  "Oh, yea, honey...  It was me...  I've been cheating...  I've even prepped the divorce papers, though.  Sawrreeee..."  The fact that he had an affair is the "wrong" part.  The fact that he lied about it... kind of just follows.  Circumstances here are analogous, and, of course, this is all worsened when you have lawyers, who are trying to push the envelope and string it out until the last possible moment, advising you.  I mean you're asking him to incriminate himself before any proceedings.  Heck, we as Americans are NOT EVEN asked to do that in court!!!  In fact, most are advised NOT TO.  ...  Three months if he admitted to (what?) everything (or, how much would have been enough for him to admit to?), but string him since he didn't.  That don't seem... [smiley=options.gif] ... [smiley=shrug.gif]


This is sad commentary on where our criminal justice system has taken us.   I find it extremely disheartening that anyone would consider "lie until your caught" a de facto component of justice.  The 5th Amendment protects us from being forced to do/say anything that would incriminate ourselves.  It does NOT say we SHOULD lie and lie and lie and lie......and then explain.   If he wanted to implement the 5th amendment, hey...cool!   That's his right!   But for us to broaden the 5th amendment to accept his lying as expected behavior as if to save himself...that's just further eroding an already maligned sense of morality and virtue in our society.
Title: Re: Falcons In-season Report
Post by DirkDiggler on Sep 27th, 2007, 10:25am
[offtopic]Gentleman--

While this is a fascinating debate, I would encourage you to take it to a more appropriate location.  This is the Falcons In-Season Report. [/offtopic]

So, Harrington had a good game in the loss.  How much longer do you think he has?  When will Leftwich get the call?

And did anyone know that Roddy White could catch the ball? He has put up some good numbers, especially when you compare it to his history.
Title: Re: Falcons In-season Report
Post by captainpurple on Sep 27th, 2007, 11:54am
I think Harrington redeemed himself a bit last week.  If he can put up a nice showing against Houston this week, he'll keep the job.  If he reverts to taking sacks and throwing INTs, we could see Lefty sooner.

the schedule certainly doesn't help Harrington.   Houston and Tennessee are pretty decent defenses.   So harrington's #s could be down.   NYG and NO follow that, so if he can make it to those games, he may just keep the job all year.
Title: Re: Falcons In-season Report
Post by Philly on Sep 27th, 2007, 1:10pm

on 09/26/07 at 21:03:32, StegRock wrote:
...I always get a laugh when everybody acts all shocked and high-and-mighty when they hear about a guy who covered up, i.e. lied, for years about an affair he was having.  I mean... that's (part and parcel of) the definition of an affair.  What's a guy, who's been (suspending all judgment... men are men and I don't like playing the judgment game in that area, at least before kids are involved) playin' around, gonna do when the old lady's suspicious?  "Oh, yea, honey...  It was me...  I've been cheating...  I've even prepped the divorce papers, though.  Sawrreeee..."  The fact that he had an affair is the "wrong" part.  The fact that he lied about it... kind of just follows.  Circumstances here are analogous, and, of course, this is all worsened when you have lawyers, who are trying to push the envelope and string it out until the last possible moment, advising you.  I mean you're asking him to incriminate himself before any proceedings.  Heck, we as Americans are NOT EVEN asked to do that in court!!!  In fact, most are advised NOT TO.  ...  Three months if he admitted to (what?) everything (or, how much would have been enough for him to admit to?), but string him since he didn't.  That don't seem... [smiley=options.gif] ... [smiley=shrug.gif]


Interesting argument, but irrelevant. Having an affair, while certainly wrong and indicative of poor judgment, is not illegal. Fighting dogs is illegal. (And to pull an argument from another thread... Vick knew it was illegal and did it anyway. If he didn't know it was illegal, then why wasn't he more in the open about it--he didn't advertise the dogs on his website as fighting dogs. He didn't stage dogfights as halftime entertainment for Falcons' games--they were held at a secluded facility in Virginia.)

I hope that Roger Goodell takes steps to keep people like Michael Vick, Pacman Jones, Chris Henry, etc. out of the league altogether.
Title: Re: Falcons In-season Report
Post by StegRock on Sep 27th, 2007, 5:04pm

on 09/27/07 at 13:10:58, Philly wrote:
Interesting argument, but irrelevant.


If you only knew how much this pains me... on SO MANY levels,... [smiley=gimmeabreak.gif] ... [smiley=bawling.gif]
Title: Re: Falcons In-season Report
Post by cwhams on Sep 27th, 2007, 8:11pm
I don't even believe I'm going to weigh in on this, but...

First off dog fighting and cock fighting are activities that are illegal and in my opinion disgusting, mean spirited, and just morally wrong.  

They are also a geniune part of our historically legitimate past and historically illigitament present.  You would not have to go all the way to Louisiana to find animal fights...it's in Illinois, Indiana, Kentucky, Alabama, Arkansas, Missouri...on and on.

I don't agree with it, but the animals are bred to fight, that's what they do, it is their purpose in life, their job.  Putting to death a badly hurt animal in the eyes of those involved in this industry is actually thought of as an act of kindness.  Putting the animal out of its misery so to speak.  In their eyes, the bigger crime would be to allow the animal to continue to exist in a painful and permanently injured state of being. I don't have to agree with that and you don't have to agree with that, but that is the reality of the thinking of that sub-culture.

Vick in many ways is the victim of a culture that he can not escape.  I don't excuse a person from raping and murdering my sister, but if they were exposed to a life time of rape and murder, it would be unrealistic to think that at some point they may become involved in that kind of behavior.

If restitution and rehabilitation is your goal, then go heavy on restitution $$$$$$$$ and rehabilitation.

If you want to be punitive, just electrocute the guy...completely destroying his ability to earn a living and contribute to society, could be considered worse than the crime.  Punish, yes, but with the concept of moving the guilty toward a desired positive outcome for society.  

I know, I must be a  [smiley=demon.gif] for wanting to show a little mercy.
Title: Re: Falcons In-season Report
Post by steelkings on Sep 28th, 2007, 7:12am

Quote:
Vick in many ways is the victim of a culture that he can not escape.  I don't excuse a person from raping and murdering my sister, but if they were exposed to a life time of rape and murder, it would be unrealistic to think that at some point they may become involved in that kind of behavior.

If restitution and rehabilitation is your goal, then go heavy on restitution $$$$$$$$ and rehabilitation.

If you want to be punitive, just electrocute the guy...completely destroying his ability to earn a living and contribute to society, could be considered worse than the crime.  Punish, yes, but with the concept of moving the guilty toward a desired positive outcome for society.  


I agree with a lot of what you said here. But someone has to choose. The dog fighting industry is waiting for an outcome here. This is big money gambling. If you are soft on Vick (couple of months, probation, Com service then back to work) Then its like telling this industry that its ok. Its not a president that should be set. All this is Moot though. Vick is doing a great job of setting president himself. Busted for pot, Busted for Dog Fighting/Killing, busted for pot again.


Quote:
I don't agree with it, but the animals are bred to fight, that's what they do, it is their purpose in life, their job.  Putting to death a badly hurt animal in the eyes of those involved in this industry is actually thought of as an act of kindness.  Putting the animal out of its misery so to speak.  In their eyes, the bigger crime would be to allow the animal to continue to exist in a painful and permanently injured state of being. I don't have to agree with that and you don't have to agree with that, but that is the reality of the thinking of that sub-culture.


Disagree here. If that were true then the same could be said about gladiators. Romans only feed the losers to the Lions to be merciful.
The merciful killings of the dogs were most of the reason Vick entered a guilty plea. Imagine Vicks public image after its read in court that the probable (I say probable because its the way its done with a lot of losing dogs.) killings involve hanging the dog by its back legs so that just the top half of the dog would be in a large tub of water.  The dog would then paddle for its life while people stood around gambling on the lenth of time the dog would survive.

I know this because my son wrote a paper and speech for school on this topic. If you would like I could get you sources for your own pictures. Ironically he wrote this paper before Vicks involvement became public. This is a huge industry where president needs set.
Title: Re: Falcons In-season Report
Post by MordecaiCourage on Sep 28th, 2007, 7:40am

on 09/27/07 at 20:11:52, cwhams wrote:
Vick in many ways is the victim of a culture that he can not escape.  


Horse Hockey!!!! Victim? I grew up in the drug culture....I grew it. I did it. I sold it. I transported it.. ..... I made a decision to get out of it while many of my friends stayed in it to rot. There is always a way out! This cultural victim talk is BULL, always has been...always will be....period!
Title: Re: Falcons In-season Report
Post by cwhams on Sep 28th, 2007, 6:07pm
I understand from whence you come on this topic and "no" I have not seen the pictures of what Vick and company actually did to the dogs after the fight.

I've overcome a few things in my life that others in the same situation were not strong enough to do.  Try being tied down in a metal chair and have electric current ran through you, for someone else's pleasure.

I had a stronger spiritual base that allowed me to cope, while others have gone down paths I don't care to talk about.  

You should rightfully be proud of your victories in life.  Others may not be as strong or have the will, integrity, or moral fiber to overcome personal failings.  That's all I'm saying.

It is an emotional issue and your perspective may well be the correct one, as long as you have considered other perspectives prior to judging.

I'm not even sure I would'nt agree with you if I had all the facts.  Any way thanks for putting up with my view and know that I respect your views as well. :-/
Title: Re: Falcons In-season Report
Post by StegRock on Sep 28th, 2007, 7:03pm

on 09/27/07 at 20:11:52, cwhams wrote:
I don't even believe I'm going to weigh in on this, but...

First off dog fighting and cock fighting are activities that are illegal and in my opinion disgusting, mean spirited, and just morally wrong.  

They are also a geniune part of our historically legitimate past and historically illigitament present.  You would not have to go all the way to Louisiana to find animal fights...it's in Illinois, Indiana, Kentucky, Alabama, Arkansas, Missouri...on and on.

I don't agree with it, but the animals are bred to fight, that's what they do, it is their purpose in life, their job.  Putting to death a badly hurt animal in the eyes of those involved in this industry is actually thought of as an act of kindness.  Putting the animal out of its misery so to speak.  In their eyes, the bigger crime would be to allow the animal to continue to exist in a painful and permanently injured state of being. I don't have to agree with that and you don't have to agree with that, but that is the reality of the thinking of that sub-culture.

Vick in many ways is the victim of a culture that he can not escape.  I don't excuse a person from raping and murdering my sister, but if they were exposed to a life time of rape and murder, it would be unrealistic to think that at some point they may become involved in that kind of behavior.

If restitution and rehabilitation is your goal, then go heavy on restitution $$$$$$$$ and rehabilitation.

If you want to be punitive, just electrocute the guy...completely destroying his ability to earn a living and contribute to society, could be considered worse than the crime.  Punish, yes, but with the concept of moving the guilty toward a desired positive outcome for society.  

I know, I must be a  [smiley=demon.gif] for wanting to show a little mercy.


[smiley=worship.gif] Well-stated, C-Dub...  You once told me to slow down and ease up with the vocab for the folks around here so as to better communicate my points (which, I gather, you typically see as "good").  Though I try, like all of us, I am who I am. :-/ I do SO appreciate your filling in the picture here.  The information and insight you provide here is the (kind of) stuff I skirt over.  I would LOVE it if you could continue to work with me like this, like a team.  For everybody, rather than expect me to change, if you "feel" my (good) message, just proactively help me to get it across.  You, in essence, perhaps unwittingly, did so here, C-Dub. [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

...


on 09/28/07 at 07:40:34, MordecaiCourage wrote:
I grew up in the drug culture....I grew it. I did it. I sold it. I transported it.. ..... I made a decision to get out of it...


Just in time obviously...  (You see where I am going and, I think, Chuck too would go with this, right, MC?) :-/
Title: Re: Falcons In-season Report
Post by steelkings on Sep 28th, 2007, 8:38pm

Quote:
[ Well-stated, C-Dub...  You once told me to slow down and ease up with the vocab for the folks around here so as to better communicate my points (which, I gather, you typically see as "good").  Though I try, like all of us, I am who I am.  I do SO appreciate your filling in the picture here.


Lets all give a great thank ya to C Dub fer helpin us ta understand the biggin words of steggers.  [smiley=dunce.gif] Goodness, I might ave bean lost with-out yins help. Golly knows I couldnt look that shit up fer myself! [smiley=dunce.gif]
Title: Re: Falcons In-season Report
Post by Callie on Sep 28th, 2007, 9:26pm
I really like Crumpler this week.  (Wish I owned him.   ;D )  He looks healthy again, Houston gives things up to TEs, and ATL is gonna need him.
Title: Re: Falcons In-season Report
Post by StegRock on Sep 29th, 2007, 5:12am

on 09/28/07 at 20:38:53, steelkings wrote:
Lets all give a great thank ya to C Dub fer helpin us ta understand the biggin words of steggers.  [smiley=dunce.gif] Goodness, I might ave bean lost with-out yins help. Golly knows I couldnt look that shit up fer myself! [smiley=dunce.gif]


I know you are probably just jesting [smiley=joker.gif] with this...  BUT, I'd be lying if I said it didn't give me the feeling that "I just can't win with you guys." [smiley=no.gif] I'm sure someone will come along and kick me in the head for this post now...  Go...  Have at it...  Phil, Tony, all "yins" (and "yangs") [smiley=yinandyang.gif] who leave me hanging out to dry... [smiley=stranded.gif] or just seek to smooth things over, which basically ends up letting my antagonist off the hook,... you've got me biting the curb... [smiley=skull.gif] Finish me off... :-/
Title: Re: Falcons In-season Report
Post by cwhams on Sep 29th, 2007, 2:22pm

on 09/28/07 at 20:38:53, steelkings wrote:
Lets all give a great thank ya to C Dub fer helpin us ta understand the biggin words of steggers.  [smiley=dunce.gif] Goodness, I might ave bean lost with-out yins help. Golly knows I couldnt look that shit up fer myself! [smiley=dunce.gif]


Excuse me, what big words?  Frankly, I did'nt notice any.  [smiley=dunce.gif]
Title: Re: Falcons In-season Report
Post by StegRock on Sep 29th, 2007, 5:49pm
Dub,... he's referencing my response to your post, not your post.  And, there weren't any in that post of mine.  I was just hearkening back to when you once said...

on 07/06/07 at 13:57:44, cwhams wrote:
I believe all that was intended by my brief comment was that perhaps your progess in this area is more advanced than many of us on the site.  Your job then becomes to nurture the growth of those interested in becomming a part of your vision.  You are accomplishing that with me.  Baby steps with many of us...patience with all of us...that may mean breaking things down...at times into smaller, more easily understandable components...the cob webs will eventually clear from our minds so that we can handle larger deeper conversations.  That's not to say that I don't personally get a kick out of reading your longer writings. ;D  I find myself smiling and enjoying many of your posts...even when I don't respond.  :)


Incidentally,... the Tony O. who responded to that post of yours was a T.O. I was diggin'. [smiley=thumbsup.gif] I'm just hopin' he's still there.  Then, there's hope.  I'm a "never say never" kind of guy, ultimately.

Know that I am NOT trying to get the best OF anyone.  I'm just trying to get the best OUT OF everyone.  Yes, that does include corralling you guys toward my vision.  Some characterize that as it's "my (Steg's) way or the highway" (I just had that one thrown up at me recently behind the scenes).  If you think of it that way, you're not "getting the bigger picture" nor "appreciating" (in both senses) my position here.  DON'T GET ME WRONG, THOUGH!!!  You can,... nay,... are allowed to see it that way.  Hold your collective breaths for what I'm about to say here... [smiley=ohshit.gif] That's a VALID way of seeing it!  The point, though, is if you see it that way, you are not of the right "spirit"/"[frame of (heart-)]mind" for this venture (of mine).  I didn't put hours upon hours, days upon days, weeks upon weeks, months upon month, and years upon years, (and, by and large, dollars upon dollars) into this place to not be the boss, so to speak, and have this place be what I want it to be.  The former part is why anybody starts their own business (so as not have a boss or bosses in their life).  The latter is what somebody who doesn't just care about the money of end it thinks.  That's me.  Maybe some of you all are better off with someone who's more so just after the buck. [smiley=greedy.gif] THAT kind of person "goes with the flow" much better.  I am the type that sees that kind of "going with the flow" as "selling out" and leading to the "inmates running the asylum", which is a TERRIBLE thing that can happen on these message-board forums as NUMEROUS sites evidence.  It's either that, the literal "selling" of site to the highest bidder, typically one of the big boys in the industry (how would like to wake up one morning and have "fantasyfootballer.com" forward you to "fanball.com"? :'(), or a level of censorship that is reminiscent of German Fascism.  That's not me.  I'm a sincere guy who wears his heart(-mind) on his sleeve and is in for the long haul,... but, as such, it is what I have in my heart-mind that I seek to have manifest here.  You're either going to help me with that, making as many "little" differences as you can when the opportunities arise (which they do as The Rick and sk recently took advantage of:  http://www.fantasyfootballer.com/cgi-bin/theGridiron/YaBB.cgi?board=58;action=display;num=1190020974), OR you have an "it's Steg's way or the highway" approach and you hit the highway... [smiley=shrug.gif] on over to another site where you can be another one among MANY or to one where the site owner is more committed to the almighty dollar [smiley=worship.gif][smiley=money.gif] of Americano capitalism and less to a vision, OR you dump a heap of money into having a site built for you or begin to blaze the half-decade+ trail that I have and build your own site from the ground up.

Over and out... [smiley=onit.gif] I've got to get to my DAY's worth of work I have ahead of me HERE...  Yous know...  Those Saturdays I basically surrender 100% of for the next 19 weeks. [smiley=builder.gif]
Title: Re: Falcons In-season Report
Post by steelkings on Sep 29th, 2007, 6:24pm
Its a great site. Plain and simple. We dont have to agree on everything all the time. Sometimes it's necessary to quibble a bit to get to know your friends a little better. But at the end of the day, we find our Telos, make peace and move on.
Title: Re: Falcons In-season Report
Post by captainpurple on Sep 29th, 2007, 7:11pm

on 09/27/07 at 20:11:52, cwhams wrote:
Putting to death a badly hurt animal in the eyes of those involved in this industry is actually thought of as an act of kindness.  Putting the animal out of its misery so to speak.  In their eyes, the bigger crime would be to allow the animal to continue to exist in a painful and permanently injured state of being.


First off, this argument is nearly rendered moot because Vick and crew didn't just put down injured dogs.  They also put down dogs that wouldn't fight well enough to win money.

But going further, this blatant rationalization of an egregious act just underscores the "victim-first" tact we've taken as a society.  Let's see....how about this example:  I kidnap and rape a woman, beating her so badly in the process that she will most likely never recover fully.   Maybe she's paralyzed or has lost a limb.   Rather than leave her to be found and live in this "painful and permanently injured state of being", I just put a bullet in her.   Hey!  I'm being merciful here!     In a way, I'm doing her a favor.  

ARE YOU KIDDING ME!   How can you possibly ignore all the things he did to bring the situation to the precipice of this "merciful act".  

[offtopic]I grew up in the drug culture....I grew it. I did it. I sold it. I transported it.. .....  

this explains a lot of the GBRFL2 activities    [smiley=hellyeafunny.gif][smiley=laugh.gif][/offtopic]
Title: Re: Falcons In-season Report
Post by cwhams on Sep 29th, 2007, 9:18pm

on 09/29/07 at 19:11:00, captainpurple wrote:
First off, this argument is nearly rendered moot because Vick and crew didn't just put down injured dogs.  They also put down dogs that wouldn't fight well enough to win money.

But going further, this blatant rationalization of an egregious act just underscores the "victim-first" tact we've taken as a society.  Let's see....how about this example:  I kidnap and rape a woman, beating her so badly in the process that she will most likely never recover fully.   Maybe she's paralyzed or has lost a limb.   Rather than leave her to be found and live in this "painful and permanently injured state of being", I just put a bullet in her.   Hey!  I'm being merciful here!     In a way, I'm doing her a favor.  

ARE YOU KIDDING ME!   How can you possibly ignore all the things he did to bring the situation to the precipice of this "merciful act".  

[smiley=hellyeafunny.gif][smiley=laugh.gif][/offtopic]


First off, I was not off topic.  The fact is that killing badly wounded dogs is exactly what Vick and company did.  I don't have other "facts" as shown and proved in a court of law surrounding other allegations.  I'll assume you are correct.  Further, I did not rationalize Vick's behavior, in fact I condemed it. Nothing I have said has indicated that Vick be given a pass on his crime(s).  Is $27,000,000 enough?  Apparently not.  Your name and reputation has value and his was easily worth another $100,000,000 over the course of his life. Is a $100,000,000 enough, apparently not. Patrick Henry said, "Give me liberty or give me death."  Vick will certainly go to jail and lose his liberty and the loss of liberty will extend to major aspects of his life for a life time, not just the period of time he spends in jail. Is loss of liberty enough?  Apparently not.  Is asking the question, "Why did he do this and what would cause a man with so much to do such a horrible thing?" to much to ask.  Apparently it is.  But if one were to ask the question and find the cause or motivation...maybe even understand the cause.  Do you think maybe society could treat the cause and maybe even cure the ramifications of that cause?  Apparrently not.  Hell, let's just throw his ass out on the middle of field full of 6'5" 300 pound men all trying knock his head off and see how he likes a dog fight.  Gee, I guess that one is now out of the question. ;)

I love my dog, but frankly in no way, shape, form, or fashion do I or any court or reasonable person in the world place the same value on a dog as they would on human life.  So let's stop all the rewriting of history comparing enslaved human gladiators and raped women to dogs.  Because it is not the same.  Human life, including unborn life is of a higher more sacred value.

By the way, I really can not speak for the raped, limbless, paralyzed woman, no doubt permanently encased in an adult diaper, at least in your example.  I can not and would not speak for the woman's family.  I can not and would not marginalize the many people who are in that condition due to the violent acts of others.

But for me, I speak only for me, pull the plug, drown me, give me a pill, or cap a bullet and send me home.  I would consider it a kindness.  No resperator, no life support, just send me home to my heavenly father...hope to see you there some day too! :)
Title: Re: Falcons In-season Report
Post by StegRock on Sep 29th, 2007, 9:59pm
[offtopic]
on 09/29/07 at 18:24:09, steelkings wrote:
Its a great site. Plain and simple. We dont have to agree on everything all the time. Sometimes it's necessary to quibble a bit to get to know your friends a little better. But at the end of the day, we find our Telos, make peace and move on.


In what way are you meaning to use "telos" here, sk?

...

Regarding the rest, the "substance" of your post, I do not disagree, sk,... but please consider this, my friend...


on 07/05/07 at 23:59:32, StegRock wrote:
One last philosophical note, if one thing has been absolutely obvious since I've opened this place, it is that I am no fan of (mere) "opinion" per se, especially in a(n intellectual) climate where the pervasive mindset is that everybody deserves to have an opinion about everything and, moreover, everybody's opinion must be of equal value because freedom of speech is an equal right.  Then, (and I know MC was jesting here) you end up with a culture based on "agreeing to disagree", "value's being in the eyes of the beholder", etc., which are really just cop-outs, and, yet, we wonder why values are deteriorating in America.  (I digress...  Could it be that we are unwilling, perhaps at this point, ill-equipped and unable to do the hard work of moral education?)  Agreements are signs of progress, and any philosophy worth its weight is about coming to agreements, to points of agreement, and probing and pressing the areas of disagreement, instead of just "agreeing to disagree", no less from the get-go.  Most notably, that was the philosophy of Socrates and Plato.  It's not about winning a debate, which is what drives us in America.  It's about rigorously arguing to agreement.  Anyway, America is in such knots because of this aforementioned dynamic... that,... [smiley=no.gif] in the least, the words of a chap like me are almost unintelligible, and, at worst,... :-/
[/offtopic]
Title: Re: Falcons In-season Report
Post by steelkings on Sep 30th, 2007, 5:32am

Quote:
In what way are you meaning to use "telos" here, sk?


As an end. Not in the achieving a goal sense. Just being done with something.


Quote:
One last philosophical note, if one thing has been absolutely obvious since I've opened this place, it is that I am no fan of (mere) "opinion" per se, especially in a(n intellectual) climate where the pervasive mindset is that everybody deserves to have an opinion about everything and, moreover, everybody's opinion must be of equal value because freedom of speech is an equal right.  Then, (and I know MC was jesting here) you end up with a culture based on "agreeing to disagree", "value's being in the eyes of the beholder", etc., which are really just cop-outs, and, yet, we wonder why values are deteriorating in America.  (I digress...  Could it be that we are unwilling, perhaps at this point, ill-equipped and unable to do the hard work of moral education?)  Agreements are signs of progress, and any philosophy worth its weight is about coming to agreements, to points of agreement, and probing and pressing the areas of disagreement, instead of just "agreeing to disagree", no less from the get-go.  Most notably, that was the philosophy of Socrates and Plato.  It's not about winning a debate, which is what drives us in America.  It's about rigorously arguing to agreement.  Anyway, America is in such knots because of this aforementioned dynamic... that,...  in the least, the words of a chap like me are almost unintelligible, and, at worst,...  


For me the gridiron is a form of recreation. It for the most part is relaxing. Here at the GI we have 8 to 10 people who really participate in these threads. You have conservative views, Moderate, Ulrta conservative , Liberal, ect,ect. We sometimes get a strong debate going when somewhere down the line someone makes it personal. Once that happens emotion takes over and it becomes almost impossible to rigorously argue to agreement. Then you realize what is important to you and walk away. You can walk away the rout JYJ or Sting took. Or you can choose to just step back and let it go.
Title: Re: Falcons In-season Report
Post by StegRock on Sep 30th, 2007, 7:00am
[offtopic]Generally and practically speaking, there is some wisdom to what you're saying.  But, there is a "but" to it all for me...


on 09/30/07 at 05:32:17, steelkings wrote:
As an end. Not in the achieving a goal sense. Just being done with something.


Well, I've only ever seen "telos" used among academic philosophers, and I've never seen it used in that way.  "Telos", as I am accustomed to using it and seeing it used, is used to indicate the direction/goal of nature.  The "telos" of water is to flow down.  The notion of "telos" is often contrasted with that of "entropy".  I've never seen it used the way you did.  Still seems like an odd usage to me, but, hey, I learn something new everyday.


Quote:
For me the gridiron is a form of recreation. It for the most part is relaxing. Here at the GI we have 8 to 10 people who really participate in these threads. You have conservative views, Moderate, Ulrta conservative , Liberal, ect,ect. We sometimes get a strong debate going when somewhere down the line someone makes it personal. Once that happens emotion takes over and it becomes almost impossible to rigorously argue to agreement. Then you realize what is important to you and walk away. You can walk away the rout JYJ or Sting took. Or you can choose to just step back and let it go.


That's oversimplification... on various levels,... especially vis-a-vis your "a pictiori" argumentation style.  But, if that puts you to bed at night,... so be it.  Somehow, to me, it gives off the feeling that the guys who "walk away" are somehow "bigger" for having done so.  That, I DEFINITELY don't buy.  Whenever I "just walk away" in life, not just here, but in real life that is, I take it as a sign that I should reevaluate and probably adjust my position on the given matter.[/offtopic]
Title: Re: Falcons In-season Report
Post by steelkings on Sep 30th, 2007, 9:17am

on 09/30/07 at 07:00:13, StegRock wrote:
[offtopic]

 Somehow, to me, it gives off the feeling that the guys who "walk away" are somehow "bigger" for having done so.  [/offtopic]


Not "bigger" but purhaps, "responsible". Not to be confused with "More Responsible". Just responsible. Bigger assumes something else is or was smaller and that is not always the case. Its the " I felt like he called me a "Big  f-ing jerk(Which possibly is a one sided interpetation), so I'm gonna call him a "Big FAT F-ing jerk" that just walking away avoids. Sometimes it's not about winning the debate. Or even agreeing on an solution. It seems to rarely happen here. Sometimes walking away is simply a means to stay soluble.


Quote:
Actually, (great minds think alike  and) this is a perfect segue to where I wanted to go with this...

So, here we go again with sk and his slide-show m.o.  You pull that same move when you pitch your take on the environment and global warming too.  Pull out some horrific photos (that tendentiously "illustrate" the side you're on) for shock value more than anything, mind you, and there you have it, right?  

BUT, I digress...  Let me ask you, sk...  You MUST be VERY ANTI-abortion, no?  Check out the scratch-n-sniff on that...  WW!!!  You are, right???  If NOT,... ENOUGH with the "a pictiori" (I knew you'd like that one, Rave) arguments.  



Quote:
You MUST be VERY ANTI-abortion, no?  Check out the scratch-n-sniff on that...  WW!!!  You are, right???  


I posted a couple of pictures and then went to work. I have a Pit mix. He looks like the last dog. Well sort of. Appearently you didnt like the pic's. I am perfectly willing to type my thoughts on the debate over dog fighting as it effects Mike Vick. But before I get anything out, I get that Anti Abortion - scratch and sniff garbage. You then asked me If I was Anti abortion. Heres your answer. Isnt everyone? The real question you ment to ask was..Do I support the womans right to choose? (We can debate that somewhere else.) That question though doesnt look good next to the words scratch and sniff now does it.
Now instead of posting your thoughts on Mike Vick, you posted an attack on me. There are lots of different philosophy styles. There are many forms of expression. You cannot choose that for someone else.



Quote:
Most notably, that was the philosophy of Socrates and Plato.  It's not about winning a debate, which is what drives us in America.  It's about rigorously arguing to agreement.  Anyway, America is in such knots because of this aforementioned dynamic... that,...  in the least, the words of a chap like me are almost unintelligible, and, at worst,...  


To me, there was very little to be gained towards the goal of "arguing to agreement" by attacking my picture style presentation.
Title: Re: Falcons In-season Report
Post by StegRock on Sep 30th, 2007, 3:27pm

on 09/30/07 at 09:17:27, steelkings wrote:
Not "bigger" but purhaps, "responsible". Not to be confused with "More Responsible". Just responsible. Bigger assumes something else is or was smaller and that is not always the case. Its the " I felt like he called me a "Big  f-ing jerk(Which possibly is a one sided interpetation), so I'm gonna call him a "Big FAT F-ing jerk" that just walking away avoids. Sometimes it's not about winning the debate. Or even agreeing on an solution. It seems to rarely happen here. Sometimes walking away is simply a means to stay soluble.


Fair enough...  You're characterization of it as "responsible" as opposed to "bigger" or even "more responsible" represents solid reasoning and is surely acceptable. [smiley=thumbsup.gif] But, by implication that also means that the only way the people walking away felt that they could avoid name-calling was to walk away (moreover, many or most of the times that's with me on the other end, which is really lousy in light of the bigger picture here, and, mind you, some people haven't held back).  The "bigger" thing is to be willing to "have it out" without name-calling.  The "walking away" move NEVER gets us to points of agreement.  In fact, what is being walked away from is the "negotiating table" itself, so to speak.  (I digress...  This walking away from the negotiating table is the main problem with world politics today.)  Again, if you know you are on the verge of punching the guy at the table with you, walking away is surely the responsible thing for you to do.  But, ultimately isn't it best to try to overcome that urge?  Isn't that our call in life?  In some sense, by walking way you are giving up on yourself.  It bums me out when I see people do that.  On the other hand, tough pills have to be swallowed to stick with it.  I know I've downed my share.


Quote:
I posted a couple of pictures and then went to work. I have a Pit mix. He looks like the last dog. Well sort of. Appearently you didnt like the pic's. I am perfectly willing to type my thoughts on the debate over dog fighting as it effects Mike Vick. But before I get anything out, I get that Anti Abortion - scratch and sniff garbage. You then asked me If I was Anti abortion. Heres your answer. Isnt everyone? The real question you ment to ask was..Do I support the womans right to choose? (We can debate that somewhere else.) That question though doesnt look good next to the words scratch and sniff now does it.
Now instead of posting your thoughts on Mike Vick, you posted an attack on me. There are lots of different philosophy styles. There are many forms of expression. You cannot choose that for someone else.

To me, there was very little to be gained towards the goal of "arguing to agreement" by attacking my picture style presentation.


What I said, sk, has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with my liking or not liking the pictures.  Saying so just conflates matters, in fact.  Let's get that out on the table, first.  As for the timing of my comment, it is what it is...  What the hell am I going to do about that, man?  My point has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with your stance on the abortion issue,... or mine or ANYONE's, no less EVERYONE's. [smiley=dramaqueen.gif] (Markie, if you happen to be reading this, responding here could be great, but, in any event, just noting what I said in the conversation [smiley=phone.gif] we had the other night about this very issue would be worthwhile, I think.)  And, your tendentiously interpretting "anti-abortion" in a very literal way is just droll, totally misses the point and gets us off-track.  (You know) I didn't mean it that way.  I just used the term to indicate the political position that often goes by that name.  ANYWAY, the point (being missed here) is that the stringing together of pictures without much commentary or with a little heart string-pulling anecdote, an m.o. you use, Todd (come on, man,... jeez), does not a position make.  In fact, it functions more like propaganda.  When I see you employ this approach what comes to mind are these "right to life", "anti-abortion" (whatever the hell you want to call them) bandwagons with bullhorns blaring one-liners and emblazoned with all kinds of horrific abortion photos.  Pictures are just for either evidenciary purposes or skewing things in a propaganda-like way.  The former is okay.  That latter, of course, is not.  You gotta make sure you do ALL the work necessary to make your case, throwing the pictures in as you go along in a targeted and mindful way that let's them function as evidence supporting your position.  The way you do it, sk, the pictures become the focal point.  As such, your position just seems all over the place, lacking substance, and frankly speaking a bit lazily constructed (at least, vis-a-vis someone like myself who is busting hump for hours on end developing his positions), and, thus, your employment of pictures seems more like a propaganda move rather than the provision of supporting evidence.  Yes, there are various ways of argumentation, but using pictures (with anecdotes) to make an argument is not one of them (T-Rave, if you are reading this, help here perhaps).  Using pictures to support an already developed position in an evidenciary kind of way,... well,... that's another thing; that's appropriate usage of the medium.  Hell, at the very end of the day, I don't care "what" you all's positions are.  I just want to see you all do a good job of making your points, the "how" of the matter.  WHY is that so?  It's NOT for the most part, no less entirely, altruistic on my part.  In fact, my motives are quite selfish.  "How" we state our cases here on "the Gridiron" is "how" we are going to separate ourselves from the pack.  If positions are not being well presented and supported, then we're just like everybody else out there in the FF world, just stating mere opinions instead of doing the (hard) work (it takes) to present sound arguments.  Again, "what" you think matters little to me.  "How" you (come to) think it does.  And, in some sense, though the motives are ultimately admittedly basically selfish, there is a "generous", high-minded sense to caring about people's "how" and not so much their "what". [smiley=zenmaster.gif]

Now, Todd, your very saying that there are lots of different "philosophy styles" and "forms of expression" illustrates a confusion in thought (probably because you're rushing).  In any event, not all are useful in all situations.  I tend to be a pretty good arguer.  That don't do me a bit of good in an artist's workshop.  But, at the debate podium or the bar stool, it does.  Likewise, Michelangelo's paint brush isn't going to help him at the debate podium.  Just saying that "you cannot choose that for someone else" misses a multitude of levels of depth and, in any event, is a dead-end that gets nobody anywhere.  It doesn't make methodology above reproach.  In fact, as I've "expressed" ad nauseam here on "the Gridiron" for OVER FIVE YEARS now, it's the "how" that's the key, not so much the (resultant) "what".  ...  Moving right along,... if Michelangelo and John Paul II are my friends and I see old "Michie" standing atop a ladder in St. Peter's Basilica holding a microphone while my boy JPII is at the alter with a paint brush, you damn right I'm letting them know they gotta switch.  To me, what would be "personally" offensive (to them) would be NOT to.  You, sk, are a compatriot of mine on "the Gridiron"...  This is all a perfect segue to the next point...

I've posted my thoughts on Michael Vick both here and on the offseason Falcons thread AD NAUSEAM!  What are you talking about (you're not thinking this through, my friend)?  And, taking the tack I did is NOT an attack on you, man.  What's REMARKABLE is that I'm currently going down a parallel path with Tony_O down on "the Sidelines":  here, http://www.fantasyfootballer.com/cgi-bin/theGridiron/YaBB.cgi?board=58;action=display;num=1091218912;start=100, and here, http://www.fantasyfootballer.com/cgi-bin/theGridiron/YaBB.cgi?board=58;action=display;num=1099666483;start=325.  (I digress...  By your standards as represented here, weren't my and your responses to Tony there "personal"?)  I think we're on the same side in that particular argument, so all is well, so to speak.  But, it's the same story.  The attack here isn't "personal" at all, just like that one isn't.  But, (here) it is YOUR position and YOUR methodology that is in question.  At the end of the day, it's ALL of this stuff that makes us who we are and ultimately defines us.  We're constantly authoring ourselves.  Life itself is our canvas, our book.  So, in that sense, the attack is "on you", NO DIFFERENT THAN HOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING RIGHT NOW IS AN ATTACK "ON ME".  Shine that interrogation light back on yourself, bro.  BUT, (the difference is) I'M NOT SAYING STOP!  It is what it is.  I can take it... as long as it doesn't get "personal"!  By "personal", I mean, to bring this around full-circle, "name-calling".  If I go and call you "a big f'n jerk" right now, THAT's personal.  But, if that's how you read what I'm writing here, THAT's on you, my friend.  Come on now...  We've even been down this road before, man...  Why are you putting me through this (on Sunday morning) when we've already done this dance? :'( I know you don't mean it, but... awww geee...  I've been at this for OVER two hours, and ALL of it is necessary,... yet, and this is what scares me, [smiley=scared.gif] perhaps not sufficient.

We've become so goosey and touchy-feely in America, everybody so worried about hurting everybody else's feelings, that we're at the point where it's become difficult to even have an "argument" with (a particular) someone.  This is a mess that only levels down greatness by facilitating excuses rather than (personal) improvement, and it is precisely or, at least, a MAJOR factor as to why we're losing our foothold on the global scene.

Incidentally,... and this is NOT the first time I've been here too,... what perplexes me is how people in these types of situations often make it a point to state, like you have here, how much they LOVE the site and how GREAT it is.  I'm the central/key figure in making this site what it is.  Besides my having built the joint, there is NO forum owner/administrator more involved, moreover, on a personal level, than I am here.  At least, it's going to be hard to LOVE this site and think it's GREAT, but separate me out from those thoughts and feelings.  It just don't seem to jive.  I just think it's an "it's great when Steg and I are on the same side" thing versus an "it sucks when Steg and I are on different sides" thing because he's really going to make me think and work to establish my position.  To wit, I think that very dynamic is exemplified by the fact that you are conducting your battle with me here as opposed to along with Tony in that aforementioned argument down on "the Sidelines".

...

Anyway, so how are the games going today??? ?.?.?
Title: Re: Falcons In-season Report
Post by steelkings on Sep 30th, 2007, 9:03pm
Im not ignoring this. I just cant read it right now. I have a tooth that requires a root canal precedure and because nobody does that on Sundays, im in a darvaset fog. unfortunatly my face still feels like it was hit with a hammer. The Darvacet isnt working quite as well as I had hoped.
Title: Re: Falcons In-season Report
Post by StegRock on Sep 30th, 2007, 10:17pm
[offtopic]
on 09/30/07 at 21:03:05, steelkings wrote:
Im not ignoring this. I just cant read it right now. I have a tooth that requires a root canal precedure and because nobody does that on Sundays, im in a darvaset fog. unfortunatly my face still feels like it was hit with a hammer. The Darvacet isnt working quite as well as I had hoped.


On some level, sk, I must say, "Thank Gawd!"  I'm drained (so, you've got me on the ropes, [smiley=boxer.gif] I suppose)... ;)

That said, [smiley=sick.gif] do feel better, brother!  I'm sure that's gotta suck, man... :-/ Best of luck with the root canal. [smiley=fingerscrossed.gif] Soon, you'll be like this ;D again!

You had told me recently that you've been in a foul mood lately. [smiley=Uwent2far.gif] Has this tooth situation contributed to that?[/offtopic]
Title: Re: Falcons In-season Report
Post by cwhams on Oct 2nd, 2007, 12:33am
[smiley=fingerscrossed.gif] Here's hoping all went well with root canal.  Would not wish the pain or remedy on anyone.  Hope the post finds you on the mend!  [smiley=jawdroppin.gif]
Title: Re: Falcons In-season Report
Post by StegRock on Oct 3rd, 2007, 1:57am
For whatever it's worth...  From "The REAL Feed":

Vick takes class in respect for animals (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/football/nfl/wires/10/02/2020.ap.fbn.vick.peta.0314/index.html)
SI.com: NFL (02.10.2007 20:10)
Title: Re: Falcons In-season Report
Post by steelkings on Oct 3rd, 2007, 8:50am

on 10/03/07 at 01:57:33, StegRock wrote:
For whatever it's worth...  From "The REAL Feed":

Vick takes class in respect for animals (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/football/nfl/wires/10/02/2020.ap.fbn.vick.peta.0314/index.html)
SI.com: NFL (02.10.2007 20:10)


And then stopped for a fat juicy HOTDOG on his way home!  :D
Title: Re: Falcons In-season Report
Post by captainpurple on Oct 3rd, 2007, 10:27am

on 10/03/07 at 08:50:57, steelkings wrote:
And then stopped for a fat juicy HOTDOG on his way home!  :D


well, I don't know about the HOTDOG, but it was  definitely a FATTY!   [smiley=bonghit.gif] [smiley=rasta.gif]
Title: Re: Falcons In-season Report
Post by StegRock on Oct 3rd, 2007, 3:01pm
Vick trial date set... according to "The REAL Feed":

Football, NFL: Trial date for Michael Vick will be set on Nov. 27 (http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/10/03/sports/3nfl.php?WT.mc_id=rsssports)
IHT: Sports (03.10.2007 13:31)
Suspended Falcons QB Vick on state dogfighting charges
Title: Re: Falcons In-season Report
Post by StegRock on Oct 3rd, 2007, 8:06pm
For those of you wondering, like I've been, how the Vick saga began...  From "The REAL Feed":

Vick relative whose arrested led to search pleads guilty (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/football/nfl/wires/10/03/2020.ap.fbn.vick.s.cousin.0182/index.html)
SI.com: NFL (03.10.2007 18:10)

[smiley=kb.gif] [smiley=bonghit.gif]
Title: Re: Falcons In-season Report
Post by StegRock on Oct 9th, 2007, 5:12am
Falcons lose starting left tackle for the remainder of the season... [smiley=injury.gif] according to "The REAL Feed":

Falcons lose Gandy to torn ACL (http://www.sportsnetwork.com/default.asp?c=sportsnetwork&page=/nfl/news/ABN4106755.htm)
The Sports Network: NFL (09.10.2007 01:34)
Title: Re: Falcons In-season Report
Post by StegRock on Oct 21st, 2007, 12:33am
Crumpler down and likely still out... according to "The REAL Feed":

Recurring knee issue leaves Crumpler doubtful (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3072140&campaign=rss&source=NFLHeadlines)
ESPN: NFL (20.10.2007 21:34)
Alge Crumpler's chronically sore knee could sideline the four-time Pro Bowl tight end for the Atlanta Falcons' game at New Orleans on Sunday.
Title: Re: Falcons In-season Report
Post by Philly on Oct 24th, 2007, 10:36pm
DeAngelo Hall is at it again...

Pro Bowl cornerback Hall blasts Falcons (http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d80392e2c&template=without-video&confirm=true)
NFL.com 10/23/07

Wow... this is an interesting story. The Falcons cut Grady Jackson and DeAngelo Hall lashes out. I've never cared much for DeAngelo Hall, but I think he's right on this one. The management is throwing in the towel and releasing one of their most productive defensive players is ridiculous. Must be a really interesting lockerroom right about now.
Title: Re: Falcons In-season Report
Post by StegRock on Nov 17th, 2007, 11:16pm
Starting QB remains unknown...  From "The REAL Feed":

Petrino not giving away Falcons starting QB plans (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3114679&campaign=rss&source=NFLHeadlines)
ESPN: NFL (16.11.2007 17:52)
Atlanta Falcons coach Bobby Petrino declined to say Friday whether Byron Leftwich or Joey Harrington will start at quarterback against Tampa Bay.
Title: Re: Falcons In-season Report
Post by StegRock on Dec 11th, 2007, 3:39am
In the wake of the announcement of Vick's 23-month sentence... [smiley=drown.gif] From "The REAL Feed":

Falcons send messages to disgraced QB Vick during Monday night game (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/football/nfl/wires/12/10/2020.ap.fbn.falcons.vick.messages.1st.ld.writethru.0459/index.html)
SI.com: NFL (11.12.2007 03:28)

What awaits Michael Vick after he finishes prison sentence? (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/football/nfl/wires/12/10/2020.ap.fbn.vick.s.future.2nd.ld.writethru.1172/index.html)
SI.com: NFL (10.12.2007 20:19)
Title: Re: Falcons In-season Report
Post by StegRock on Jan 8th, 2008, 3:27am
Looking to the future, this is an interesting development for Michael Vick and a great opportunity he's taking advantage of as he tries to put his life back together.  Currently atop "The REAL Feed":

Vick transferred, could face less jail time (http://www.sportsnetwork.com/default.asp?c=sportsnetwork&page=/nfl/news/ABN4120930.htm)
The Sports Network: NFL (08.01.2008 02:37)

He can't change the past.  Those of you who HATE him aren't going to change your minds no matter what.  For the rest of us, we can give credit where credit is due, moving forward.  He's made a lot of good (political) moves since the hatchet dropped.


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