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        the Gridiron >> the Sidelines >>  Rush... to judgment!
        
(Message started by: StegRock on Oct 1^st, 2003, 2:53pm)

Title: Rush... to judgment!
Post by StegRock on Oct 1^st, 2003, 2:53pm

I actually like Rush Limbaugh as a political commentator. I definitely do NOT always agree with him, but his logical reasoning skills are superb and his incendiary commentary entertaining in the least. I do NOT, however, like him on Sunday NFL Countdown. His presence seems awkward to me and he does not bring anything of "real" value to the show as I see it. BUT, here's what's currently topping "The REAL Feed" and according to the pieces, ESPN has Rush's back and, moreover, the show's ratings are up and it allegedly has (a lot) to do with the addition of Limbaugh:

ESPN backs Limbaugh
USA Today: Sports (01.10.2003 13:12)
PHILADELPHIA - Donovan McNabb is a three-time Pro Bowler and was runner-up for NFL MVP. Still, some critics question his credentials. Before McNabb led the Eagles to a 23-13 victory over the Bills on S...

Limbaugh-McNabb Controversy
WPVI: Sports (01.10.2003 13:02)
Before McNabb led the Philadelphia Eagles to a 23-13 victory over the Buffalo Bills on Sunday, commentator Rush Limbaugh said on ESPN's "Sunday NFL Countdown" that the fifth-year quarterback is overrated. Limbaugh's comments sparked controversy for their racial overtones.

Any thoughts, fellas? [smiley=shrug.gif]

Title: Re: Rush... to judgment!
Post by Keyshawn Johnson 76yards on Oct 1^st, 2003, 3:11pm

All he said was McNabb was 'overrated."

Yes, he did say that the media liked him more because he was a black QB, but that's not racist, the man just spoke the truth...

Title: Re: Rush... to judgment!
Post by Philly on Oct 1^st, 2003, 3:35pm

I agree with Steg on this one... Rush Limbaugh is a very insightful and able political commentator, but his NFL fan-dom does not necessarily make him an authority on football.

He said that McNabb was overrated, which he very well may be. The Eagles defense and special teams over the past 2-3 years have certainly made things much easier for McNabb. Regardless of the play of any other position, the QB gets too much credit and too much blame for the successes and failures of the team.

But Rush said the reason why McNabb is overrated is because of a social justice of the media (of which Rush apparently forgets he is a part of now). The media wants a black QB to succeed?

Does anyone remember McNabb's stats from last year (10 regular season games played)?

86.0 QB Rating
211-361 (58.4%) 2289 yards
17 TDs - 6 INTs
63 rushes - 460 yards - 6 TDs

Those look like decent numbers to me considering his supporting cast. The completion % should be higher in a WCO system. But McNabb didn't make mistakes to hurt the team. (Any idea how many INTs Manning threw?)

Rush's statement was ludicrous. Why would the media want McNabb to succeed because he is black? Why aren't they championing the cause of Quincy Carter if that is the case? I don't think anyone would be surprised to hear how critical the Philadelphia media has been of McNabb when he throws short passes 5 yards short or 5 yards over someone's head...

If Rush said the NFL wants the black QB to succeed, it might have slightly more credence, although that only seems applicable to head coaches right now.

Rush is a very intelligent man and is a tremendous debater, but his facts are wrong in this argument. I don't think he said anything racist, but I think he is accusing others of a reverse racism that is inaccurate.

ESPN will stand behind him because ratings of NFL Countdown have risen quite substantially (and will do so even more now that Rush is making ridiculous comments).

Title: Re: Rush... to judgment!
Post by DB on Oct 1^st, 2003, 5:25pm

I think the comment was definately racist. He didn't just say "he was overrated". He said and meant a lot more than that. He said McNabb was being all hyped up because of one thing, the color of his skin, and that the hype was unwarranted. Maybe it came out wrong, but the way it came out was racist. [smiley=hellyeafunny.gif]

Title: Re: Rush... to judgment!
Post by StegRock on Oct 1^st, 2003, 5:57pm

Well, I will quickly add this... There is a difference between "racist" (a misnomer in and of itself as we are all in the human "race"; we are really talking about ethnicity) comments and statements of fact that involve "racial" (again, a misnomer) realities or premises. In America, our "liberal" oversensitivity has its costs, for one just the acknowledgment of "particular" harsh, but nevertheless true, realities, the lack of acknowledgment of which is causing us to live/exist in an "unreal" American bubble of inaccurate and inconsistent hyperbole.

Title: Re: Rush... to judgment!
Post by Philly on Oct 1^st, 2003, 6:17pm

on 10/01/03 at 17:57:49, StegRock wrote:

As elucidated by the statements proffered by Limbaugh, the crux of the issue is not the determination if the aforementioned is, verily, a "racist," but, conversely, if his assertion is, indeed, accurate. While factual, the illustration tendered by Limbaugh, is, in effect, flawed as a consequence of a lack of prerequisite legitimacy.

I hope that clears things up.

Title: Re: Rush... to judgment!
Post by Keyshawn Johnson 76yards on Oct 1^st, 2003, 6:26pm

I give up on this thread fellas, to many damn words they haven't taught me in school, yet. ;D :o

Title: Re: Rush... to judgment!
Post by Callie on Oct 1^st, 2003, 7:59pm

Everything said here has it's sense. But the NFL is a very big bucks organization. If McNabb gets the chance to show his talent, all of the Rush stuff will go away. McNabb is the guy who shows them the money. I like them both for their own abilities. But this is the NFL. I'd like to see McNabb do what he can do. Remember Jimmy the Greek? By the way, this means WHAT CAN YOU DO. That's what matters. Level playing field. Even the Browns' field gets one soon. Forget the race thing. Play Ball!

Title: Re: Rush... to judgment!
Post by Keyshawn Johnson 76yards on Oct 1^st, 2003, 8:26pm

on 10/01/03 at 17:25:24, DB wrote:

"I think what we've had here is a little social concern in the NFL. The media has been very desirous that a black quarterback do well," Limbaugh said. "There is a little hope invested in McNabb, and he got a lot of credit for the performance of this team that he didn't deserve. The defense carried this team."

How can anyone percieve that as racist?

Title: Re: Rush... to judgment!
Post by Callie on Oct 1^st, 2003, 8:39pm

I don't care what Rush said. Beethoven said it all. He said..."Nobody ever built a monument to a critic." Play ball.

Title: Democratic presidential caRe: Rush... to judgment!
Post by DB on Oct 1^st, 2003, 8:44pm

Quote:

How can anyone percieve that as racist?

Well, [smiley=options.gif], you may think he didn't mean it that way, but if you don't see how it can be perceived that way ... [smiley=uh.gif]....

The perception is clear. As quoted in an article I read:

"Democratic presidential candidate Wesley Clark urged ESPN to fire Limbaugh. Clark, a retired Army general who entered the race Sept. 17, called the remarks "hateful and ignorant speech."

In a letter to ESPN, Clark said, "There can be no excuse for such statements. Mr. Limbaugh has the right to say whatever he wants, but ABC and ESPN have no obligation to sponsor such hateful and ignorant speech. Mr. Limbaugh should be fired immediately."

Another Democratic candidate, Howard Dean, echoed Clark's sentiment to fire Limbaugh.

"To imply that the success of African-American is an undeserved gift from a biased media is absurd and offensive," Dean said in a statement.

NAACP president and CEO Kweisi Mfume suggested that if Limbaugh isn't fired, ESPN should at least provide an opposing point of view during the Sunday Countdown show.

"What's almost as bad as Limbaugh's comments is ESPN's feeble defense for putting him on the air," Mfume said in a statement. "If this is the future of ESPN, I think fair-minded fans, who tune in for sports news coverage, and not for racist views, should get their sports on other networks. It is appalling that ESPN has to go to this extent to try to increase viewership."

Title: Re: Rush... to judgment!
Post by StegRock on Oct 1^st, 2003, 8:45pm

And, what about freedom of speech and expression now, folks? It might have been an imprudent statement made at an inauspicious time, but he certainly does not deserve to be fired because of it and, moreover, people should not be asking for that. That's whack! That having been said, as per my original post, his job should be in jeopardy on more "substantive" grounds, a la Dennis Miller. But, then again, it's all about the almighty [smiley=money.gif] and ratings are up! :-/

Title: Re: Rush... to judgment!
Post by Callie on Oct 1^st, 2003, 9:26pm

If I were to talk about political racism in Fantasy Football the way you have talked in this thread, I might ask you, why don't Clark and Dean and Mfume adress the massive slave trade in the Middle East and Africa where thousands of people of all races are bought and sold. Or, if a soccer team in Iraq can stop worrying about being tortured if they lose.

However, this is about Fantasy Football.

Enjoy your freedom, but use it responsibly.

Title: Re: Rush... to judgment!
Post by StegRock on Oct 1^st, 2003, 9:40pm

on 10/01/03 at 21:26:42, Callie wrote:

However, this is about Fantasy Football.

Well, this isn't about fantasy football, actually. As such, it is on "the Sidelines"!

on 10/01/03 at 21:26:42, Callie wrote:

If I were to talk about political racism in Fantasy Football the way you have talked in this thread, I might ask you, why don't Clark and Dean and Mfume adress the massive slave trade in the Middle East and Africa where thousands of people of all races are bought and sold. Or, if a soccer team in Iraq can stop worrying about being tortured if they lose.

...

Enjoy your freedom, but use it responsibly.

Now, I don't know who the "you" is that you are directing this toward. If it's me, I'm confused. ??? In any event, though, thumbs [smiley=thumbsup.gif] up on IT ALL! You are right on the mark, friend! [smiley=bullseye.gif]

Title: Re: Rush... to judgment!
Post by Philly on Oct 1^st, 2003, 9:51pm

Interestingly, Rush Limbaugh had a scheduled appearance in Philadelphia Thursday 10/2. Gee, I wonder if this whole thing might have been carefully orchestrated by Mr. Limbaugh...?

Also, for people to call for his job over an irresponsible statement is ridiculous. He should be criticized for the statement (which he has been), but he shouldn't lose a job for stating an opinion. Dusty Rhodes didn't (and shouldn't have) lose (lost) his job for his ridiculous statements against white ball players this summer. Unfortunately, the Jimmy the Greeks and the Howard Cosells did not get such latitude from their networks for equally non-racist statements.

Title: Re: Rush... to judgment!
Post by Noey21 on Oct 2^nd, 2003, 12:01am

Is Donovan overrated? Myabe, maybe not.

In my opinion I think he is a real good qb......a great one no he isn't.....yet.

However, the truth of the matter is Rush got what he wanted.
1. People to talk about the show.
2. Stir up debate.
3. and most importantly people talking about Rush again. It has been awhile since his name was really in the news.

This was the real reason he got asked to do the show anyway don't you think.

Just think how many more people might watch next week just to see what he says.

Title: Re: Rush... to judgment!
Post by StegRock on Oct 2^nd, 2003, 1:10am

on 10/02/03 at 00:01:51, Noey21 wrote:

Just think how many more people might watch next week just to see what he says.

None...

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/10/01/sports/football/02cnd-rush.html;

(Headline page)
http://www.nytimes.com/yr/mo/day/sports/football/.

Brought to you by way of "the Gridiron Newsstand"! [smiley=bow.gif]

Title: Re: Rush... to judgment!
Post by steelkings on Oct 2^nd, 2003, 9:49am

The problem is not that Rush( Who is a jerk off anyway) put his foot in his mouth. Its not that Berman didnt soften it as he said. Its the fact that this show doesn't preview the games anymore. Two weeks ago the Steelers played the Chefs in what was the biggest game of the week at the time. All they could talk about was how Joey porter was (Forrest gump voice) shot in the buttocks. This was it. No comments about the size differance of linemen between the 2 teams. Nothing. Just Porter was shot in the ass. If they preview the Philly / Bills game maybe they talk about Mcnabb playing behind a makeshift line while he hands the ball to a hold out back. Dimwit Limbone thinks we over rated Mcnabb because he's black. I dont think so. I think we over rated Mcnabb because they were supposed to go to the superbowl. Get back to hosts that have something to offer about the game. It George w. starts running between the tackles i'll listen to Limpbone. Furthermore. Is it me or is Michael Irvin 1 or 2 straws full of coke from being a complete dumb ass! As you can tell. I like that show less and less all the time.

Title: Re: Rush... to judgment!
Post by Philly on Oct 2^nd, 2003, 9:55am

Here's a link to Rush's resignation for those who don't have an account with the NY Times...

http://msn.espn.go.com/gen/news/2003/1001/1628537.html

-------------------------------
Wow... lots of fun things going on with Rush...

Now he apparently has an Oxycotin addiction on top of it all. (I can see the NY Post headline tomorrow: "Oxy-moron")...
-------------------------------

The more I thought about the Rush-Donovan issue, the more I realized that, although he's been challenged on the issue, Rush has never effectively defended his original assertion: that the media has overrated McNabb because they want to see a black QB succeed.

On his own show yesterday (from which Rush preaches from a bully pulpit) Rush merely said he must have been right because it caused such a stir among sportswriters. Flawed logic at its very best...

I am very familiar with the sports media in Philadelphia. And, if Rush is correct, wouldn't the Philadelphia media be the ones overrating McNabb the most (since they write about him the most)? While they've all come to Donovan's defense in this issue, they certainly never failed to criticize McNabb for his play in the past, yet never tied his failures to his race.

(I guess Rush is a color-commentator too?)

Oh well, this should all die down by the end of the day.

Title: Re: Rush... to judgment!
Post by steelkings on Oct 2^nd, 2003, 10:05am

Oh well, this should all die down by the end of the day.

If you watched the NBC Today show you saw nothing but this story. ESPN/ABC will be doing spin control for at least a week.

Title: Re: Rush... to judgment!
Post by DB on Oct 2^nd, 2003, 10:11am

Quote:

for a person to say his statements make him racist is also IGNORANT. (SO save it DB).

[smiley=annoyed.gif] OK, I'm ignorant.... that's a strong comeback! [smiley=hellyeafunny.gif]. Your persuasive argument convinced me that the statements have nothing to do with race and cannot be read to imply that McNabb got too much credit because he's black. How can I be so stupid. Thank you for pointing this out.

Quote:

Donovan said it best..."I thought we were through with this"...

Your quoting McNabb was the nail in my argument's coffin. It is not like McNabb took offense and came out against Rush because I'm sure you would have mentioned those comments as well.

Title: Re: Rush... to judgment!
Post by BarnabyWilde on Oct 2^nd, 2003, 10:46am

First off, Limbaugh comments are wrong anyway regardless of if McNabb is black or white. If he does believe that McNabb is overrated, he should have left it at that. There was no reason to bring McNabb's race into.

I am white, but if I were black, I would have taken this comment as a slap in the face. Limbaugh slams McNabb's ability and than says the main reason McNabb is thought of as a top player in the league is because of his race at the position he plays. That's crazy. Last I counted, there have been nine black quarterbacks that have started games this year. Are they all overrated? I think not. Skin color should not have even been an issue.

I don't neccessarily believe the comment itself was rascist, but it was uncalled for. No matter what color Donovan is, it was a poor assessment of his skills as a professional football player.

Title: Re: Rush... to judgment!
Post by steelkings on Oct 2^nd, 2003, 11:10am

Who gives a shit what limbaugh say's on a football show. Rush has a political talk show where the 1st amendment is tossed around like the old pigskin. If ESPN didnt see it coming then shame on them. Rushes next statement to the stumbling hord aught to be "fuck you". This will piss off the group(Thats you guy's) But as a whole , black guys are faster than white guys. Black guys can jump higher than white guys. If Mcnabb was a slower white guy with that kind of arm, he would be a second stringer at best. Rush cut to the chase. He said . Because Mcnabb is a black guy we thought he could run and take over games with his speed. Perhaps he's had too much Chunky soup! I dont ever agree with limbuagh politically or as a football commentator, however he didnt say Mcnabb is a nigger! He simply said Mcnabb is an over rated black guy!

Title: Re: Rush... to judgment!
Post by StegRock on Oct 2^nd, 2003, 12:17pm

Man, ALL this McNabb hype on this very thread is practically proving Rush's point! Outside of somewhat of a burst last season, which, by the way, included NO 300-yard passing games (remember the main/distinguishing attribute of a "quarterback" is throwing the ball), and his Randall Cunningham-like ability to run, which, by the way, is surpassed by a healthy Michael Vick, he has been statistically mediocre, notwithstanding the fact that we, in the fantasy world, typically award more points for rushing yardage and touchdowns than passing yardage and touchdowns. ::) Yea, he hasn't had a great set of receivers to work with (as most see it... though I don't totally agree with that claim), but don't the truly great ones (and not just statistically speaking, so as to cover all bases here), like Favre, Montana, Elway, Aikman, etc., etc., make those around them great, not just themselves. I mean Donovan is good at making Donovan look good, but that's just about it if you think about it undogmatically, at least in the big picture/the long-run... all you hear about regarding the Philly offense is Donovan, Donovan, Donovan, and, oh, by the way, a weak O-line that can't block for Donovan, a poor receiving corp that can't catch Donovan's passes, and a lackluster set of running backs that don't really keep the defense from focusing on Donovan. Look, fellas, do we look back now and think of Randall Cunningham as a great quarterback? Not at all, not if you are truly objective about it! He didn't win squat, really; he didn't last long, and when his legs gave out with age as will always inevitably happen with these running quarterbacks, he showed that he could not really fulfill a more traditional and arguably more prototypical quarterback role, despite a short-lived stint with another team, the first "greatest show on turf" in Minnesota, with whom I could have even tossed for a buck 50 a game. [smiley=rollinwithlaughter.gif]

[smiley=soapboxer.gif]

So, do I think McNabb is overhyped? Somewhat! I mean look at Brad Johnson, a demure, good-natured, homeboy, who, oh, by the way, just led his team to a Super Bowl Championship after having been written-off by most, and, who, oh, by the way, you never even hear about anymore, at least relatively speaking. As for Rush's comment about McNabb's being black as part of his being overhyped. I don't know... Yes, Favre, Plummer and Gannon are getting quite a bit of media attention paid to them these days, BUT I would say that McNabb, Vick, Culpepper, McNair and Leftwich, in particular, do get an awful lot of (disproportionate) attention vis-a-vis Brunell, Johnson, Green, Collins and Boller, to draw equivalent parallels, who seem to be in similarish situations with those guys. Maybe that's splitting hairs, but... I can see it a little bit. Does their being black have something to do with it? Is "the media desirous for a black quarterback to succeed"... and if so, why? Are we as a nation overall desirous for such... and if so, why? I frankly don't know... But, as for the yes-no part of the question, perhaps! I wouldn't rule it completely out! And, could it deal with a VERY ill-fated guilt complex over slavery paybacks that is making us weak at the knees when facing the harsh truths of life on Earth, not just in America, anymore? Very possibly! And, is that an ugly thing to intimate and confront? Definitely, obviously! Nevertheless, was his comment still ill-advised? Surely! But, is the "public" reaction to it and ultimate end result commensurate and proper? Hell no! Dusty Baker's managing in the baseball playoffs, for God's sake! What's good for the goose doesn't seem to be good for the gander here and freedom of speech and expression seems only to apply when we... "they" want it to, i.e. when the likes of, e.g., the great Rev. Al Sharpton evokes it. Go ahead, Brittney and Madonna, tongue it away for all of our kids to see and move on not only undaunted and basically untarnished, but even more popular! That doesn't piss off the ACLU or the NAACP (why should it [smiley=shrug.gif] ... just crazy white folk) or NOW (shouldn't it ??? ) or Oprah ([smiley=spchef.gif]) or (insert name of any given like-minded victims' group that you can "come up with" here), so it's ALL GOOD! [smiley=pullleeeeeeeze.gif] Let the extreme porn industry hide behind Amendment 1 and let the Ten Commandments be crucified at the hands of a deluded "separation of church and state" argument, BUT the already well-known, fairly ultra-conservative, Rush Limbaugh, who, granted, shouldn't even be on Sunday NFL Countdown to begin with, makes a "dicey" comment that may "touch upon" some ugly truth "of the state of things", OFF WITH HIS HEAD!

God damn it... To come down, I need to pop in a good ole' rape-n-snuff flick, rip up a Bible and, hell, for good measure, where do I sign up for that lawsuit against McDonald's?

"They killed Kenny!"-[smiley=spstan.gif][smiley=spkyle.gif]-"You bastards!"

Title: Re: Rush... to judgment!
Post by steelkings on Oct 2^nd, 2003, 12:27pm

Steg,
Thanks for nut shelling that topic. I could have sworn I just said the same thing in 1000 words or less right before you did. I did however enjoy what ever the fuck you said! I saw in a different thread where someone said you were the wizard from the ffl HBO piece. They were wrong. Your Dennis Miller. I wondered what happend to you after Monday Nite Football.
P.S Dennis,
How do I graduate from Tackling Dummy?

Steelkings

Title: Re: Rush... to judgment!
Post by steelkings on Oct 2^nd, 2003, 2:06pm

[smiley=doseofreality.gif]"After two weeks McNabb had the worst QB RATing...where do YOU think he will be when the year is over "

At the end of the year he will be in the shitter stinking it up with his buddies Kordell, T. Couch, J.Garcia, Warner, Peete, Brunell.....ect. [smiley=annoyed.gif]

Title: Re: Rush... to judgment!
Post by StegRock on Oct 2^nd, 2003, 2:07pm

Boy, have I been having problems with my internet conncetion here today! :P

...

Mr. 5'er, I still think McNabb is quite overrated. We'll eventually see the story this season and then history tell...

Mr. steelkings, I honestly have to say that I think the point you made and the point I made, though there was some definite cross-over especially regarding the First Amendment aspect, were overall QUITE different. I would say the difference would be along the lines of Kirkegaard's journalist versus the philosopher, my taking more of the latter's approach. Anyway, we basically agree. I get that! [smiley=yes.gif]

As for moving up in the ranks 'round here, well, all I can say is that you gotta' earn your stripes on "the Gridiron". Those titles are based on one's "contributions" here, so to speak, i.e., like almost everywhere else they are post-based. ;D You reap what you sow on this site. So, just keep up the good, quality posting like you have been [smiley=bow.gif] and you'll move on up (automatically) in due time.

Title: Re: Rush... to judgment!
Post by steelkings on Oct 2^nd, 2003, 2:34pm

Steg(Dennis Miller) [smiley=hellyeafunny.gif]

I have to admit that I cant find Kierkegaard in any of my fantasy Mag's. I dont know if I should be insulted or not. Who does he play for? Does he block for Mcnabb? Does he have a problem with black quarterbacks? [smiley=shiteatingrin.gif]

Ok, For anyone who cares.....Kierkegaard is a existentialist philosopher who was a huge critic of rationalism. He offered alternitives to ethical views of lifes issues. He pissed alot of people off.

Keep swingin and i'll keep duckin

Title: Re: Rush... to judgment!
Post by StegRock on Oct 2^nd, 2003, 2:54pm

on 10/02/03 at 14:34:10, steelkings wrote:

LOL [smiley=laugh.gif] [smiley=hellyeafunny.gif] [smiley=LMFAO.gif] [smiley=rollinwithlaughter.gif]

Quote:

Kierkegaard is a existentialist philosopher...

(Considered to be) The "Father of Existentialism" to be exact! ;D

Quote:

who was a huge critic of rationalism...

:-/ Like Marx, he was a staunch critic of Hegel, who was an Idealist, not rationalism. His major contribution was the "Leap of Faith", seconded by ground-breaking commentary on subjectivism.

Quote:

He offered alternitives to ethical views of lifes issues.

Sure, I guess, although I'm not quite sure what that means other than what you just frankly, straightforwardly state, which is very general and could be applied to almost any philosopher, particularly of that time period. [smiley=shrug.gif]

Quote:

He pissed alot of people off.

YES! And, I tend to write quite similarly to him, at least with regards to (unnecessary) verbosity. [smiley=whistle.gif]

Title: Re: Rush... to judgment!
Post by StegRock on Oct 2^nd, 2003, 3:07pm

on 10/02/03 at 14:47:16, 5-on-it wrote:

so you are saying...

If the Eagles and Donovan shit on themselves this whole season, that will prove Donovan is overrated and your assessment will be correct?

Barring injury, he will have a very respectable career. He will need all the pieces of the puzzle just like all the other great QBs. A point you left unaddressed in my last post.

Obviosly some QBs are reasonably better than others, but to be sucessful, each needs the supporting cast. The o-line is more a factor of QB sucess than a QBs own ability!

I follow ya', 5'er! You do, however, see how McNabb could be considered overrated by some "reason-able" folk out there, no? And, that he "properly" might not end up being considered among the greatest of quarterbacks of all-time, right? [smiley=shrug.gif]

Title: Re: Rush... to judgment!
Post by steelkings on Oct 2^nd, 2003, 3:14pm

on 10/02/03 at 14:47:16, 5-on-it wrote:

Terry Bradshaw had a great career. Whoopty do! What has D. Mcnabb done lately. Every year teams roll out some"used to be" to parade in front of the fans. It doesnt win games. Future QB Speedy Manfreddy from anywhere state university gets drafted by philly and throws 25 td's in his rookie year and everyone forgets who Mcnabb is. I dont care about his o-line. Great one's find a way to overcome. Look up Mcnair in your fantasy guide. Win multiple rings to become great. Look up Dilfer in your guide. He's not there. Its ok to be over rated. every unsucessfull QB has been over rated by someone. Next year its possible(probable) that Mcnabb will be under rated. Right now I wouldn't trade Kitna for him.

Title: Re: Rush... to judgment!
Post by steelkings on Oct 2^nd, 2003, 3:19pm

[quote author=StegRock link=board=58;num=1065034380;start=25#31 date=10/02/03 at 14:54:22]

LOL [smiley=laugh.gif] [smiley=hellyeafunny.gif] [smiley=LMFAO.gif] [smiley=rollinwithlaughter.gif]

Hegel, subjectivism,
verbosity.

Thats 3 more words I had to look up!

Title: Re: Rush... to judgment!
Post by StegRock on Oct 2^nd, 2003, 7:22pm

on 10/02/03 at 16:39:09, 5-on-it wrote:

I will be back in 10 years to say 'I told you so".

5'er, let's revise that to say, "I will stick around for 10 years..."

But, in any case, I like to hear it, that you'll be hangin' around for a long time to come that is! [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Title: Re: Rush... to judgment!
Post by StegRock on Oct 3^rd, 2003, 12:49am

Oh God! We are soon going to be on the brink of a race war in America! Did you guys catch what actress Sarah Silverstein just said on The Jimmy Kimmel Show? She was talking about the prospects of her having children in light of the fact that she is 32 and has no "prospects", so to speak. She points out that her biological clock is really starting to tick away and then she goes on to say that woman are at their most fertile when they are 16 and BLACK! [smiley=ohshit.gif]

Title: Re: Rush... to judgment!
Post by Philly on Oct 3^rd, 2003, 10:21am

on 10/03/03 at 00:49:40, StegRock wrote:

I'll bet it gets less attention than Rush's comments...

Anyway, who the hell is Sarah Silverstein? Is she any relation to Shel Silverstein?

Title: Re: Rush... to judgment!
Post by Philly on Oct 3^rd, 2003, 10:28am

on 10/02/03 at 16:39:09, 5-on-it wrote:

Yes and NO, Steg...I think the only time he has been overrated was (by the Eagles) when he signed his contract. Other than that, I haven't seen the hype. I haven't heard him put into the HOF. I haven't heard him be compared to the greats yet. All I have heard is the DUMB DUMB analysts state the obvoius week in and week out only to focus on a particular week as if it defined the career.

I didn't say he will be the greatest, or even one of the greatest, steelqueen. I am saying if you say he is overrated, don't forget to use your formula for your findings on all the other QBs too.

McNabb Stats

2002 (4th year) (10 games) --- 7th in QB rating...sacked 28 times

2001 (3rd year) --- 7th in qb rating...7th in NFL TDs...1st in rushing...SACKED 39 times (Sixth most in NFL)(tell me he didn't "make it happen"!)...5th in TD %

2000 (2nd year) --- Very similar numbers to 2001...couldn't find the leader board

He will have good solid career as a QB. I doubt there will be a Speedy McGreedy in the not so near future to make anyone in Philly forget McNabb. Time will tell! I will be back in 10 years to say 'I told you so" [smiley=moon.gif]

Love,

Donovan [smiley=afro.gif]

Has anyone compared John Elway's stats to Donovan McNabb's stats over the first 5 years of their careers? They are very comparable. John Elway never was able to really succeed (though he got close a few times) until he had Terrell Davis and Rod Smith and Ed McCaffrey and other weapons on his team... of course Elway was a white QB, so he (using Rush's logic) probably had to deal with a media who wanted to see him fail since he was not a minority...

Title: Re: Rush... to judgment!
Post by Philly on Oct 3^rd, 2003, 10:31am

Listening to my morning dose of Sports Talk Radio on my drive to work I heard that Tom Jackson was embarrassed that he didn't address the topic more thoroughly (or with more conviction) when Rush initially made the comment.

Because of that he said he planned to go to the NFL Countdown production meeting this week, and if Rush was still there, Jackson would tell him what he thought of him and his comments, and then tender his own resignation.

Michael Irvin said he wanted to comment, but he had a producer in his earpiece telling him it was time to move on to the next segment.

Title: Re: Rush... to judgment!
Post by StegRock on Oct 3^rd, 2003, 3:10pm

on 10/03/03 at 13:49:52, 5-on-it wrote:

Well, I hope Tom Jackson does not leave the show. He is the only one I can take on that show.

A Bronco! [smiley=broncofan.gif] [smiley=awwgee.gif]

Quote:

OH WAIT, maybe not, people of color have the right to have opinions and make comments related to race.

How true! And, worded perfectly! [smiley=bow.gif]

5'er, by the way, did you catch my last post about comments made on The Jimmy Kimmel Show last night and the imminency of a race war in America? ;)

Title: Re: Rush... to judgment!
Post by StegRock on Oct 3^rd, 2003, 3:58pm

on 10/03/03 at 15:37:02, 5-on-it wrote:

I did Steg...BUT...

I've had that same thought at times in my life, but a race war is either a VERY VERY long way away, or it's not going to happen at all. We will see no more than what we have seen twice in L.A. in our lifetime.

I think things seem a lot worse than they really are. The comment made on that show...was she serious? or just taking a jab?

5'er, I'm ultimately hyperbolizing here. I don't think there will ever be a race war in America, either! It's just all the things that are "coming together" all of a sudden. But, whatever! She probably said what she said in light of Rush's situation.

Anyway, as for what the chick said,... well, it was meant to get a laugh, I'm sure. BUT, again, it's not something one can really joke about in public in today's world. And, in any case, making a joke about it, in and of itself, indicates that she "has thought about it"... if you follow. I have, too, to be honest! :-[ [smiley=shrug.gif]

Title: Re: Rush... to judgment!
Post by Callie on Oct 3^rd, 2003, 7:59pm

Amen.

Good wrap-up.

[smiley=sunny.gif]

Title: Re: Rush... to judgment!
Post by StegRock on Oct 5^th, 2003, 2:56pm

Well, let's not wrap it up quite yet...

...

So, how do you guys think the "Countdown" guys handled/addressed it today? I, for one, have mixed emotions, but I think that Chris Berman is a stand-up guy.

Title: Re: Rush... to judgment!
Post by StegRock on Oct 5^th, 2003, 5:08pm

Yes, it was, 5'er.

So, any thoughts, anybody (question is two posts above and regards the "Countdown" crew's handling of it all)?

Title: Re: Rush... to judgment!
Post by StegRock on Oct 6^th, 2003, 2:49pm

It's hard for me to answer that, 5'er, without my bias shining through, which kind of defeats the purpose (even though this discussion is very soon to be passe and dead in the water).

So, as for "objective" commentary, here's what I found by way of "the Gridiron Newsstand":

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=1631106.

...

Then, on a bit of an ironic side note, this is what I found scrolling down "The REAL Feed" a bit:

Peyton Manning the Great White Hope
AllSports: NFL (05.10.2003 21:08)
Link - http://www.allsports.com/cgi-bin/showstory.cgi?story_id=44834

This latter piece could definitely be taken as proof-positive that Rush was absolutely wrong. Of course, AllSports can hardly be termed "mainstream media". HOWEVER, in any case, it would go to show that the media or, and perhaps more tellingly, we as a society in general are NOT color-blind (when it comes to, "at least", sports issues like this), like the ESPN crew claims NFL locker rooms are in general and, moreover, the league's vision as regards the position of quarterback is.

Title: Re: Rush... to judgment!
Post by Philly on Oct 6^th, 2003, 3:50pm

It all sounded pretty hollow to me. None of them really addressed the issue, but talked about what they could have done, but didn't do. It was interesting how Rush said (when he resigned) that he was doing it because he didn't want his comrades to be put in an uncomfortable position. It sounded like there was a pretty good relationship amongst the crew before Rush's statement, but now that he is gone, they didn't hesitate to say that they really didn't want him there in the first place.

Title: Re: Rush... to judgment!
Post by StegRock on Oct 6^th, 2003, 7:28pm

Well, with ALL that said, I saw it live and I thought that...

Chris Berman was fair-minded with his response. I thought he captured the essence of the event well and without going over the top.

Tom Jackson, and remember I am a HUGE [smiley=broncofan.gif] , played the role of victim and was over the top. He was surely right regarding his intimation that Rush should have never even been on the show to begin with. I myself stated that (in my original post of this thread).

As 5'er said, Steve and Michael just spoke in generalities, nothing special.

Title: Re: Rush... to judgment!
Post by Philly on Oct 7^th, 2003, 9:23am

on 10/07/03 at 02:34:38, 5-on-it wrote:

Well, I wish I could have seen it, but it's time for it to go away. It probably will not be too long before yet another incident arises.

I know I seem very hostile with a lot of my opinions, but I really am not HATING these people (announcers, commentators, analysts), it's just that I really get annoyed by the "show for the camera", "I am a big star" attitudes.

Philly --- Did you or any others catch the part during the Philly game where they showed the announcers (Cris Collinsworth, Troy Aikman, and ?). on the Jumbotron? Well, I guess the fans BOOED (of course) and the third announcer was just sure they were booing Troy!!! I really do not think that was the case, do you? I would have to say they were booing the little (Shockey-Hair-Loving) bitch, Cris Collinsworth! What do you think?

Why is it that he always gets Philly's games, when he is obviously biased against them?

I wasn't able to watch the game live, so I taped it. Unfortunately I watched it late Sunday night so I fast-forwarded through everything that wasn't a play.

I can't imagine the fans would boo Joe Buck, Jr. (the third guy whose name you didn't have). My guess is that they were booing a Dallas Cowboy (Troy Aikman) just because of his affiliation with the boys in the starred helmets.

But let's not focus too much on who the Philadelphia fans boo and who they don't -- the media does more of that than is ever necessary. I seem to remember hearing some Dallas fans booing Emmitt Smith when he returned in a Cardinal uniform this weekend...

Title: Re: Rush... to judgment!
Post by StegRock on Oct 14^th, 2003, 11:13pm

How about this take from a piece straight off "The REAL Feed" on this issue as compared with Sapp's arguably (more) "racist" comments of late? ...

http://football.about.com/cs/news/a/aa101403.htm.

A bit of a different genre of comment on the part of Sapp, but arguably more directly "racist" than Rush's. Any double standards here?