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        the Gridiron >> the Sidelines >>  WHERE IS THE LIFE?
        
(Message started by: steelkings on Dec 10^th, 2007, 9:43pm)

Title: WHERE IS THE LIFE?
Post by steelkings on Dec 10^th, 2007, 9:43pm

We are getting ready to start week 15 in the NFL. For most leagues this is the best part of the season. Its Fantasy playoff time. Where is the life in this site? I am so disappointed. Its the same 20 guys that hang around from time to time. Only 6 or so of those ever participate in anything. Even I dont get involved in many of the supporting threads like I used to. Seriously, if you take out the Red Zone, where people parrot news about a few of the teams, its only use is for the team reports that nobody reads. Other than the Red Zone activity, has there been more than 10 posts in the last week? I doubt it. I really like the Duece and its mother. I think the supporting leagues are great too; but there is a stark reality setting in here. Facts are facts. Alot of people are only here to compete in the leagues but could not give a shit about daily participation. Lack of participation is the certain death of this site. Steve talks about money from time to time. But its not money that makes this place go. Its people being involved. Its being active. If no-one is active nobody will want to be here. That holds true for Steve too you know. This has become an additional job for Steve. He doesnt have fun here like he used to. The passion is almost gone. Anyone can see that. What do you suppose the odds are that the post season contests will happen. Steve, are you up for more work?
It's a real bummer because I really feel that everyone here, Steve, Jeff, Callie, Ken, Rob and everyone; you guys have become my friends. Even though Ive never met you; you are my friends. It seems its slowly going away. I really think that this wont be here this time next year. Seems sad yet funny. The funny part will be that I wont get more than 5 responses to this post. Cause I dont think anyone really gives a shit.

Title: Re: WHERE IS THE LIFE?
Post by Callie on Dec 11^th, 2007, 9:34pm

Response #1:

I think of you as a friend, too. If I could actually get back home for a good visit, I'd try to get you and your wife together with us for dinner. (Might even happen down the road. Western PA. Meet in the middle. Just not this year.)

I don't think that anyone is dissing this place, though. On a site like this, activity generates activity. Most people seem to be scrambling with life right now. People are spread out all around the country. Most of them have young families to deal with. It's just about dealing with what they have to deal with.

I hope more happens, but it isn't about lack of interest. They just don't have time to do this place like it's beyond a hobby. (Jobs, families, etc., are there.) It isn't a diss on anyone.

Title: Re: WHERE IS THE LIFE?
Post by steelkings on Dec 12^th, 2007, 7:26am

on 12/11/07 at 21:34:44, Callie wrote:

Quote:

I think of you as a friend, too. If I could actually get back home for a good visit, I'd try to get you and your wife together with us for dinner. (Might even happen down the road. Western PA. Meet in the middle. Just not this year.)

Middle? That would be Columbus Ohio. However it would give me a great excuse to visit the beautiful rural NORTH western PA.

Quote:

I don't think that anyone is dissing this place, though. On a site like this, activity generates activity. Most people seem to be scrambling with life right now. People are spread out all around the country. Most of them have young families to deal with. It's just about dealing with what they have to deal with. hope more happens, but it isn't about lack of interest. They just don't have time to do this place like it's beyond a hobby. (Jobs, families, etc., are there.) It isn't a diss on anyone.

Activity does generate activity. Thats the main point. I'm sure Steve doesn't want me speaking for steve, but...he's weighed in on this before. It must feel un-rewarding to maintain, by that I mean, lose money to operate a fantasy football web site that is treated like a bunch of glorified email boxes.

Case and point: on the 11th there were 2 post that were not created by Steg. Yikes!

While I cannot speak for Steg; read between the lines on this post from Steg on the 11th. This Actually was submitted before my post.

Quote:

Well, (before all is said and done :-/) we made our way to 20,000 posts up in "the Red Zone"!!! [smiley=clap.gif]

Title: Re: WHERE IS THE LIFE?
Post by MordecaiCourage on Dec 12^th, 2007, 1:28pm

I consider you all friends too. Todd you are right....I think WE can all do a bit better here and participate more on these threads..the GBRFL and the deuce have the participation thing going, we need to transfer that onto the big board. ;D Influx that energy boys and girls!!!!!!!!!

Title: Re: WHERE IS THE LIFE?
Post by Drew Rosenhaus on Dec 12^th, 2007, 2:41pm

on 12/12/07 at 13:28:13, MordecaiCourage wrote:

I can't speak for Steve either but I did read his earlier post and caught the same line. For me, I can easily see his frustration. He is working hard on his own stuff in Hawaii and then he works hard on the Gridiron. He really doesn't have a ton of time for his family and his own life. Plus, he hemorrhages money doing the Gridiron.

I know I am one of those who frequents the site quite a bit but I don't post that often. I have given money in the past when I could. So, I am probably one that doesn't do enough to give back to this site.

Since we are in the giving season, I was trying to think of a creative way to bring some more customers Steg's way (and in the process show them some of the great analysis that all you guys provide). So my thought is this:

1) I will purchase 4 2008 "In Season" packages to StegsList. Each one of these will get a member five weeks to get into Stegslist.com and have access to his weekly rankings. All four will be available FOR FREE to either new members or people who have been around but not really participated.

2) I will purchase five Co-Commisioner decisions. These will be given out freely to five users of the Gridiron, again to either new members or people who have been around but haven't actively participated.

This could be a really bad idea and I don't want to burden Steve with more work but I thought that if new people can see really what this site offers, they will be more inclined to stick around and again, participate. Plus, it's money back to Steve which I don't think can ever hurt. Thoughts?

Title: Re: WHERE IS THE LIFE?
Post by Tony_O on Dec 12^th, 2007, 3:47pm

I think that is a gift that keeps on giving!!!!! It has the potential to benefit Steve, current memebers, and future members. A very wise, practical, and thoughtful gift!. [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Title: Re: WHERE IS THE LIFE?
Post by steelkings on Dec 12^th, 2007, 4:34pm

Quote:

Plus, it's money back to Steve which I don't think can ever hurt. Thoughts?

You know what; I think thats great [smiley=booya.gif]. Times are tough for me this time of year, money wise. 3 kids and a huge family to buy gifts for. My wife is quite the shopper! However I found a twenty spot for Steg. I try and give 2 or 3 times a year. It may not be much, but if everyone sent him a couple of bucks, purhaps his holiday will be a little brighter. Purhaps Mrs. Steg could do a little shopping herself.
If you are reading this, I challenge you all to match my 20 bucks. Whats twenty bucks?

For those who need the help

1. Scroll up to the top of the home page.
2. Click on the Gridiron Store.
3. Click on the donations page.
4. Choose visa or Master card.
5. Enter your info and select an amount.

[smiley=money.gif] [smiley=twocents.gif] [smiley=money.gif] [smiley=twocents.gif]

Title: Re: WHERE IS THE LIFE?
Post by StegRock on Dec 21^st, 2007, 4:31am

Title: Re: WHERE IS THE LIFE?
Post by cwhams on Dec 21^st, 2007, 2:12pm

#8

:) The most activity I've seen in two months. That's a good thing.

Perseverance over a long period of time, defined as a life time is what it sometimes takes...most just don't make it...I believe I've heard that 80% of all new businesses fail in the first five or so years.

But for those that make it!!! "To the moon Alice!" :D

Title: Re: WHERE IS THE LIFE?
Post by steelkings on Dec 22^nd, 2007, 9:46am

Quote:

If you are reading this, I challenge you all to match my 20 bucks. Whats twenty bucks?

Did anyone match my 20 spot? Anybody?

Title: Re: WHERE IS THE LIFE?
Post by Callie on Dec 22^nd, 2007, 6:14pm

on 12/21/07 at 04:31:57, StegRock wrote:

BTW - I just got back in here and wanted you to know that Steggie's blank post wasn't anything neg about you guys. I had put in a snarky post one night, and I went in to take it back out when I got up the next morning (and I did delete it). His timeframe in the middle of the Pacific meant he got to see it and respond. Ignore me when I've been working for nearly 24 hours straight. ;D

I managed to get about 3 hours sleep that night, but at least I got my snarky thing out of there before getting back to work.

We'll get back on track after the holidays. [smiley=christmascheer.gif]

Merry Christmas, all!!

---

Edit: I was just thinkin' that to be fair I should tell you something about the snarky post I made. It was just about how more people should do team reports, and that there were a whole lot of teams available. (But my tone could have been nicer. ;D ) I knew it was dumb and snarky when I realized that the people who would be reading my remarks were probably all doing team reports at that point anyway.

Again. Merry Christmas, all!

Title: Re: WHERE IS THE LIFE?
Post by StegRock on Dec 23^rd, 2007, 4:20am

on 12/22/07 at 09:46:20, steelkings wrote:

Did anyone match my 20 spot? Anybody?

Title: Re: WHERE IS THE LIFE?
Post by StegRock on Dec 25^th, 2007, 5:22pm

on 12/22/07 at 09:46:20, steelkings wrote:

Did anyone match my 20 spot? Anybody?

Not a one... :-/

Title: Re: WHERE IS THE LIFE?
Post by steelkings on Dec 26^th, 2007, 9:58am

Quote:

Not a one... :-/

Purhaps...., If there is a next year..???..., A mild fee would be in required to participate in the feature leagues around here. I have a friend that has a web site that he owns and runs. His site has some pop ups to reduce the Fee's. It still costs him 100+ to operate. Its not nearly as clean as this site. I'm sure it cost Steg plenty more than that.

People need to "pony up" one way or the other. In the words of a frog "I'm jist sayin'".

Title: Re: WHERE IS THE LIFE?
Post by Callie on Dec 27^th, 2007, 12:15am

I send Steggie money every year. If there is a premium number, I'll do that. I consider this a premium site, so I send the sign-up money.

On the other hand, if we want to keep things in a way that some people are paying premium fees and others can see the free stuff (WHICH WE ARE ALREADY DOING, THANK YOU VERY MUCH), we can do that.

<Elvis voice> - Thank you very much </Elvis voice>

Title: Re: WHERE IS THE LIFE?
Post by StegRock on Jan 1^st, 2008, 5:06pm

on 12/12/07 at 14:41:11, Drew Rosenhaus wrote:

As per my latest announcement on the "Site Donors" thread (http://www.fantasyfootballer.com/cgi-bin/theGridiron/YaBB.cgi?board=58;action=display;num=1068780634;start=100), Markie made good on his word here. As such, five FREE Co-commissioner decisions are available to our "viewing audience" here on "the Gridiron". For more info on the "Co-commissioner Services" offered here via the FantasyFootballer.com network, click here: http://www.fantasyfootballer.com/stegmissioner.htm. I'm guessing that there probably isn't great need for these in the immediacy, so come next summer Mark and/or I will make sure to remind everybody of this, and I will incorporate information about this on that afore-linked-to page for the "Co-commissioner Services". At present, because it really is so far off at this point [and what I'd really like to make happen this (early) offseason is the magazine,... yet again unlikely, but...], I am not in a position to accomodate the StegsList.com portion of Mark's generous proposal. I just don't know at this time what it's going to look like next year. I doubt, if I make it to then, I will give up on it entirely. But, I will almost definitely have to scale it down. Perhaps, we will reapproach this later in the year.

But, I digress... This has been a ROUGH season on me. This site continues to balloon outward, and I'm at my wit's end with it all, especially when the return isn't even close to being commensurate to the effort. Also, and I will address this in greater detail in a more appropriate place down the line, there has been something that has been weighing on my mind here. It's a behind-the-scenes technical matter that none of you on the front end are going to be able to even remotely appreciate (no matter how much I bitch and whine about it) but will cause me umpteen hours, days, weeks, months of work and will, again, behind the scenes, fuel my frustration, perhaps even letting it turn the corner and morph into full-on resentment. In very short, Hostica, our hosting company, is going to cease support of FrontPage Server Extensions. This could happen any day. In fact, back in August they had told me that it was likely to happen before the year was out. Thank God that didn't end up being the case. That could have been the straw that broke the camel's back. Mind you, FSE are a low-end form of CGI-processing. I don't rely on them very much. But, I do here and there, remnants of days,... nights long ago when I was just trying to figure all this computer crap out...
[smiley=steg.gif] ... [smiley=doh.gif] ... [smiley=steg.gif] ... [smiley=doh.gif] ... [smiley=steg.gif] ... [smiley=doh.gif] ... [smiley=steg.gif]
There is one somewhat buried to most of you but not to a core group of you place that FSE are employed in a significant way that will be very headachy for me to deal with. That is the lineup submission forms for the GBRFLeagues. They are all FSE-driven. Reworking that environment and doing the technical upgrade on it (all on my lonesome) is a HUGE job that is staring me in the face this offseason. (Perhaps, this puts into context my snippyish posts on the GBRFL2 board and explains my heart sinking when I saw a roll eyes (::)) response from one of the members.)

Anyway... That's all for now. Thank you Mark,... [smiley=bow.gif] and thank Mark! People who, especially financially at this point in this (ad)venture, step up to the plate and make good on their words are the only hope this site has in the long run. I just hope we have enough of them... :-/

Title: Re: WHERE IS THE LIFE?
Post by StegRock on Jan 10^th, 2008, 10:13pm

I have another more general, more important response to (add to) this thread. I, however, want to address something more specific(ally relevant), first. In fact, it regards Callie's post that she took down (which, incidentally, I have no problem with her having done; what I am going to write here is not directed toward her). It regarded the "contributing" factor of the (addition) of the FF-specific team reports (three seasons ago now).

As I discussed with a few of our gridironers, I think I made a mistake with these things, at least the timing of them,... too soon. It was a "business" miscalculation due to over-enthusiasm. At the end of the day, the FF-specific team reports have worked against the "bigger picture" here. Here is how... Please do remember, though, that not all of this may apply to YOU specifically,... but if it doesn't, know that you are, generally speaking, an exception rather than the rule...

First, the FF-specific team reports have limited our ability to generate revenue via donations because they give the guys doing them the feeling that they are already making a significant contribution and don't need to donate. Not only does this miss the point, but it is not even an accurate impression under which to operate.

Second, they have actually taken away from the energy of the forum, specifically "the Red Zone" but ultimately the whole of "the Gridron". I say this insofar as that is where these kinds of things had been taking place. They weren't "professional", but they sufficed and, in any event, added much (much needed) fodder to our main board. But, also, in general, it seems as though some people just "clock in" to do their team reports and don't even hang out on the boards anymore.

Third, they have been a burden on me. They've created more work for me on both the technical and administrative sides of the ball. (I digress... As many of you are experiencing, I am draggin' ass with the football stuff at this point. Week 17 CBFL is still pending. The Postseason stuff is all in limbo. The GBRFLeague stuff is getting put off until the last minute. Not only are my last dimes getting spent,... [smiley=twocents.gif] I'M SPENT. :P)

And, finally, I don't know how much the whole show has enhanced the web site. We still do not have all 32 teams covered, of note the Patriots (which someone, Todd in fact, around midseason did offer to do, but I couldn't come up for air to set it up for him, just like I didn't have time to set someone else up with the Bears). All the time, though, dummy me, [smiley=dunce.gif] I thought I was offering up an opportunity that dudes would be all over. In any event, of the teams that have been covered, some of the coverage has been a mess when guys have crapped out on me. Honestly, and I am one of the writers, I would grade the whole production, at best, a B-. Don't get me wrong. Some of the efforts made, especially given the fact that we're talking volunteer effort, are A+'s. But, the overall show... "eh". I'd give myself a B-. Of course, in my defense, the Broncos team report is but one VERY, VERY small hat that I have to wear around here.

In the end, I think I made a big mistake. Again, in short, they've, on the one hand, been extra work and very costly in terms of activity on the boards, and, yet, on the other, not much of an enhancement to the site, something that has put a chip on the shoulders of some and cost us revenue. [smiley=no.gif] Ouch! Point being, why I even take the time to bring this up, I think the "attitude" about these reports is very MYopic. All things, the bigger picture just as regards the reports themselves, no less the site as a whole, aren't being considered. Yes, I am thankful to those of you who step up to the plate and have done them. [smiley=bow.gif] But, it's unfortunately not just as simple as that, at least not at this point in the venture. Someday I hope it is, BUT I need help getting there.

Anyway, another post to come on the near horizon... In the meantime, there is "work" [smiley=builder.gif] to be done,... right??? [smiley=tired.gif] Oh, well,... it wouldn't have been that bad had I not procrastinated it all week... :-/

Title: Re: WHERE IS THE LIFE?
Post by steelkings on Jan 10^th, 2008, 10:48pm

I have some idea's. Only if you wish to hear them though. My ideas are thought through, however not talked through. Let me know

Title: Re: WHERE IS THE LIFE?
Post by Callie on Jan 11^th, 2008, 1:50am

OK. This one stays up.

Steg knows that my family teams include the Raiders, 9ers, and Bears. And some that are already being done here for team reports very well thank you very much.

I'll do the Bears on top of the Raiders and 9ers if that is wanted.

On top of that (other than GBRFL2 and CBFL), leagues I play in either pony up or play on either Yahoo or AOL or MFL. For free (Yahoo or AOL) or for a fee (MFL) that's around ten bucks per season. Yeah, all that much for a whole season of FF. That means that someone pays for that with ads or whatever.

Want ads? OK. Pony up? OK. Play for free? Weasel.

Oh, yeah. And for other things with no ponying up? Weasel.

Edit: The ten bucks for MFL only covers the site charges. How much time do people spend doing stats around here? Just sayin'.

Title: Re: WHERE IS THE LIFE?
Post by StegRock on Jan 11^th, 2008, 2:36am

on 01/10/08 at 22:48:18, steelkings wrote:

...however not talked through.

Well,... access is granted,... [smiley=phone.gif] especially since you are in one of the GBRFLeagues. There it is always so via the "Owner Info" page... Though, I'd probably give my digits out to anyone who expresses genuine concern and care. Given personal/work schedules and the difference in time zones, it would probably have to be during the weekend. But, I shut the ringer on my phone off when I go to bed, so 24-7 is fine. Plug away, man! [smiley=plug.gif] Or, just lay it out here. However, if you are already asking me whether I'd like to hear your ideas out or not, that's not a good sign. :-/ I'm guessing I probably won't...

Title: Re: WHERE IS THE LIFE?
Post by StegRock on Jan 11^th, 2008, 3:20pm

on 01/11/08 at 01:50:54, Callie wrote:

Want ads? OK. Pony up? OK. Play for free? Weasel.

Call,... not only is that NOT the prevailing attitude, but, when I get these private messages or e-mails that "enumerate" "ALL" that so-and-so does for the site, "playing" in the leagues and participating in the special, "premium" activities, like the postseason stuff, get included in that outline. [smiley=gimmeabreak.gif]

...

That's not playing for the team.

Title: Re: WHERE IS THE LIFE?
Post by Callie on Jan 24^th, 2008, 1:58am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2triiYXSY8

Title: Re: WHERE IS THE LIFE?
Post by steelkings on Jan 25^th, 2008, 9:06am

ELI SUCKS! Very Funny

Title: Re: WHERE IS THE LIFE?
Post by Tony_O on Jan 25^th, 2008, 10:59am

I never knew I had anything in common with Hitler! ;D

Title: Re: WHERE IS THE LIFE?
Post by MordecaiCourage on Jan 25^th, 2008, 12:22pm

Callie...that was great! ;D

Title: Re: WHERE IS THE LIFE?
Post by steelkings on Feb 10^th, 2008, 10:08am

on 02/10/08 at 03:08:05, StegRock wrote:

[offtopic]

Not to mention that this post is misplaced, but something about it seems NOT to be in the spirit of "competition". Lame! Not well thought through... Inappropriate. In the wrong place, at least, and one last thing to make me go... :-/ this season. [smiley=no.gif][/offtopic]

You are absolutly right Steve. It's in the wrong thread. I meant to put it on the discussion thread. I should have been more aware of what I was doing. My apologies.
However the rest of it is bull shit! (And unnecessary) You run a great site with one exception. That exception is you. You want us all to conform to a set of rules. Its those rules that do make this place clean and tidy. But you wont adhere to the rules yourself. What you did up there, should have been done by a moderator. The referee, the line judge, the back judge ect,ect. But not by you! Even if you and the moderator are one and the same, it still shouldn't have your name on it. With your name on it, it's just attitude. It just became anouther excuse for you to do this ?.?.? or :-/ or :'( or [smiley=no.gif] or [smiley=annoyed.gif]. I'm tired of that. Yeah, I get it. You work your butt off to make the place work. I get it! But the cards you lay on the table. The stuff thats not behind the scenes is this; ?.?.? or :-/ or :'( or [smiley=no.gif] or [smiley=annoyed.gif] It's all you do anymore! Negitive, Negitive, Negitive.
I try and support this site in many ways. I do what I can with my reports. I stay involved with most threads. I even try and send money on a regular basis. But I have to tell you, Steve. I need a break from ?.?.? , :-/ ,:'( , [smiley=no.gif],[smiley=annoyed.gif]. Negitive is no fun.
I am certainly not going to rant and fight with you about this. I'm fucking over it for a while. I'm looking for resolution.
I have always said that this is one of my favorite sites. Its part of my daily activities. I think I need to find out how much I really like this thing. I'm taking the grid off my favorites links and As of now, Im out of here for a couple of months. I'll check back in sometime in May or June and see if its something I wish to continue then. Happy trails and See you in June.
?.?.? or :-/ or :'( or [smiley=no.gif] or [smiley=annoyed.gif]
Todd

Title: Re: WHERE IS THE LIFE?
Post by StegRock on Feb 10^th, 2008, 4:37pm

I see you have a rich understanding of the affect the site has on YOU. You evidently still have little to no understanding/appreciation of the effect of this site on MY life and what I have sacrificed to keep it going over the past five years. You have a lot of options. I hope you find one that suits you. Just, please, let me know what you are going to do with enough time for me to bring in a new guy to the GBRFL2 and adjust the team reports, assuming this all gets off the ground for season six. You know it's easy to remain positive when it's a hobby to you and you contribute as time and money permit. It's not so easy when it consumes upwards of 20 hours a week and what little credit and cash you have,... time, effort and money that NEED to be spent if the thing is even to continue. We are coming from different perspectives. Everybody tries to foist theirs on me, which is part, if not part and parcel, of why I am so often... :-/, :'(, [smiley=no.gif] these days. Put more bluntly, as I have before, you are not pushing 40 with a wife pushing 40 with a family, a child, on hold for this (very) shit (in part that I am dealing with right now when all I really want to do is get my Pro Bowl lineup in). The severity of the,... MY situation vis-a-vis this venture has evidently not sunk in. BUT, I don't want to give up. Anyway, it's Pro Bowl Sunday, and right to the very end this season, I've got a thorn in my side. Reading your post and writing this post is an unencouraging, YET APROPOS conclusion to this season. [smiley=clap.gif]

Title: Re: WHERE IS THE LIFE?
Post by StegRock on Feb 10^th, 2008, 5:11pm

Case in point...

on 02/10/08 at 10:08:25, steelkings wrote:

I'm fucking over it for a while. ... Im out of here for a couple of months. I'll check back in sometime in May or June and see if its something I wish to continue then. Happy trails and See you in June.

Well, while you (CAN) "take off" (in both senses of the term) for two to four months, I'll be around doing what it takes to keep the site going (for when you return,... right?),... both behind the scenes and making my 13,000th post. :-/ ... [smiley=wavinbye.gif] ... [smiley=no.gif]

Title: Re: WHERE IS THE LIFE?
Post by MordecaiCourage on Feb 10^th, 2008, 9:23pm

I was gonna leave once.....left for about 2 days but then had to get my gridiron "fix". Came back as a guest to look around and decided that I wouldn't let what people type bother me. Now I just giggle alot!!

Title: Re: WHERE IS THE LIFE?
Post by StegRock on Feb 10^th, 2008, 10:56pm

I don't know if that approach gets us anywhere, MC, but I appreciate it insofar as it helps prevent your reacting (to me, at least) in a way that gives me a headache and an ulcer. :)

Title: Re: WHERE IS THE LIFE?
Post by Philly on Feb 12^th, 2008, 12:37pm

I'll weigh in here, finally, after a purposeful absence from comment during the football season. I'm feel like I'm at a crossroads with this site, as it appears others are as well.

I first came to the site a couple weeks after its launch after I read a well-considered article by Steg that was featured on FFToday. I sent Steg a laudatory email and he invited me to the site, of which I was previously unaware. I wasn't necessarily new to the hobby, but I was new to using the plethora of FF sites that were popping up at that time. I was happy to find a place where a WDIS thread wasn't immediately responded to with criticism and mocking (Why is such-and-such even on your roster? Are you a moron?) that was so prevalent on most other sites.

I still love fantasy football. My primary fantasy league (and the first league I ever played in) had their long overdue first-ever live draft last summer and it was a blast. I really enjoy playing in the GBRFL2 with a cadre of intelligent and competitive owners, most of whom I feel I know fairly well through my involvement with the site and conversations away from the internet. I still play in Jim's Giants of the Gridiron League, but I have to admit I'm seriously considering calling an end to my involvement there because I just don't seem to have the time or desire to continue (just a heads up, Jim). I felt the same way about the CBFL. I love the concept and execution, but my schedule precluded me from getting involved with the draft one year and I haven't gone back because I don't feel like I am contributing anything to the league other than my participation.

The title of this thread--Where is the life?--is apropos to my post. I know in my first few years here, I was a large part of the life of the site. I used to read every single post, respond to nearly every call for advice, and was involved in just about everything the site did. Since that time, I've gotten married and had two children. With the current economy and prevailing business philosophy, I'm doing more work than ever before as my department hasn't grown despite increased workloads. I'm also writing for an NFL draft site, which, indirectly, was a result of work I was doing for this site. So, I'm busy--like most everyone else here.

Obviously I know that my life circumstances have changed 180 degrees since I first got involved, and that is part and parcel of the reason that my involvement here has changed. I also know that Steg's life circumstances have changed markedly since the launch of the site.

But I think the thing that has gotten to me the most over the past few years on this site is just the aura of the place. I'm hesitant to get involved in a number of the discussions here because I often feel like I'm walking on eggshells. If I make a joke or participate in a little trash talk (one of the tenets of fantasy football in my opinion) I wonder if I'm treading too heavily on one's sensibilities--even people I "think" I know. Often, when I have an idea about something that I feel might improve a league or the site, I feel that I shouldn't even bother to voice it because it will just be met with complaints. This site just seems too filled with negativity and short fuses and people looking for any opportunity to attack someone else now.

The discussions here also tend to get too weighty and introspective for me. Like I said, fantasy football is a hobby for me. It's not my life. I like to consider fantasy football (hence the word, fantasy) as a bit of an escape from real life and a vehicle to continue to be involved with what is a bit of an obsession with me: the sport of football. It's not that I don't want to think or consider or learn... that's all great and important, but I wonder if this site has become less about fantasy football than real life--the very thing I was trying to escape.

Sometimes when I click on my favorites, I feel like I'm just visiting this website out of a sense of obligation rather than desire. This site is a lot like church to me. I have always enjoyed the fellowship of church and the opportunity to help others (and be helped by others) that the church community provided. However, it seemed to me that the church spent more time pleading with its members for contributions than anything else. Of course, I realized that without the money, there would be no church, no fellowship. I didn't like it, but I realize the reality of it. As a result, I became less and less involved with my church until now, when I'm just a fringe member. It's the same way here. I know Steg doesn't like having to plead for money, and he's not rolling in his own time and dough to invest in the site, but it's the reality... no cash, no fantasyfootballer.com. I know I just get tired of all the posts that have the same (non)-smileys and the negativity and complaints. I'm not saying that they're unwarranted, but they're a real downer for me.

I realize that this post is nothing more than catharsis for me and probably accomplishes nothing for the site--possibly even inviting more setbacks, but it's out there and I feel better.

Title: Re: WHERE IS THE LIFE?
Post by StegRock on Apr 7^th, 2008, 4:36am

(Backdrop... [smiley=newbie.gif])

on 03/30/08 at 06:13:39, StegRock wrote:

Well,... [smiley=shitfan.gif] "Best laid plans",... not that the above has changed. The plan has just been "augmented". But, it seems as though I've spoken too soon about the auspiciousness of it all as it relates to Steggie, fall semester, fantasy football, and ultimately "the Gridiron". This unexpected "turn of events" is all good, I suppose, though the timing is quite a bit from optimal and, in any event, not according to plan. Thing is,... things are all now more complicated, and the BIG move we were already looking at now has unforeseen,... unforeseeable ramifications that are sweeping, as in affecting the WHOLE Stegeman clan in a HUGE way, i.e. very possibly including Momma Steg, a lifelong Monmouth County, New Jersey resident. The bottom line is that the priority list for the old Stegger is soon to get a HUGE new addition, which, in any event, is DEFINITELY going to shove "the Gridiron", especially as is after six full years, down the list. This is not to mention that I was a bit tendentious above regarding my (conspicuous) absence of late. Truth is that I look more forward to getting back to my (current, cover-to-cover) reading of the Mencius than even dropping by this, at one time most beloved, place. Hell,... I had to fight that urge right now in order to sit here and bang this out. [smiley=steg.gif] I've knocked out three-and-a-half (dense) philosophy books [smiley=RIF.gif] and a (dense) full-length journal article over the last few months. My love of Philosophy and what I feel I can accomplish with my philosophical project (with people whose lives I have "direct" contact with and who can really "see" and "appreciate" "my way"/"what I am up to") is winning out over my love for fantasy football and what I feel I can accomplish here (with dudes in this disconnected milieu that doesn't lend itself to trustfulness, generosity and humility), and in light of this new "circumstance" third place means getting back-burnered much the same "The English Master (http://www.theenglishmaster.com)" has been (a venture of mine which would have to be sent to the cryogenic lab while "the Gridiron" would go on life-support). Don't get me wrong... As long as the GBRFL exists, which I intend on its doing until my dying days, this place will at some capacity (like "theEnglishMaster.com"). The undeniable fact, however, is that, this new "circumstance" aside, as I've thought less and less about this place and what it takes me to keep it going, the more I've gotten back into enjoying my fantasy "toilet seat [smiley=caughtonthecan.gif] press conferences", ;D giving thought more just to the league and,... eh-hem,... my team. But, this is all digression. I had been working on a thoughtful response to sk's "Where is the life" thread, and I will be posting that here soon, possibly tomorrow, despite this SERIOUS change in circumstances which will render much of that message moot or, at least, require most of it to be qualified. Nevertheless, I feel that I should throw it out there so everything is on the table and the decisions I make for and changes I make to the site going into the '08 season can be put into context and understood. The main point here, though, is that the straw,... eh-hem,... bale of hay that is going to break the camel's back is about to be dropped... This is in terms of both finances and life's "to-do list".

First off, I apologize for the delay... That (optimistic) "possibly tomorrow" (from above) turned (quickly) into "next week". I also want to give a BIG thumbs up [smiley=twothumbsup.gif] to Jeff for his post above. VERY thoughtful, forthright, fair-minded and HELPFUL! [smiley=yes.gif] Anyway, I know you've all been waiting on bated breath for this, ::) ... ;) so without further delay and ado, here we go...

At this point, PROGRESS on "the Gridiron" requires A LOT of resources, both financial and human. Of course, though, the former can facilitate the importation of the latter in a way that the latter cannot do for the former... as this human, both who is spent and whose resources have been spent, can attest.

I digress... Jeff West was an early arrival after the opening of this site back in August of 2002. He spoiled me for (all of our differences notwithstanding) he has provided INCREDIBLE amounts of both financial and human resources (to-date). He was close to being as committed and involved as I was, and I thought more, many more, were coming. I was (VERY) wrong.

Okay,... back to the point,... as per the point of this very thread, many, most or all of you have likely noticed that this past season it was as if "the Gridiron" was a ghost ship. [smiley=skull.gif][smiley=sailin.gif][smiley=ghost.gif] Only the essentials were getting done, and even then only in a rote fashion. There is just too much to do (as it is, i.e. "progress" aside) and not enough "support". Some of the technical-side stuff would be better outsourced at this point, especially if we are thinking "progress". It would be a big help to me if I could bring one or some of you on "formally", as in earning a little scratch, to help relieve the burden on me. Or, at least, I myself would be more freed up if you all were to work together to cobble something I can call a part-time "pay" together. This all takes revenue... or independent wealth, the latter of which I do NOT even come close to having.

Now,... don't get me wrong. All along it took A LOT. But, we were fortunate with my circumstances. The first season, I was in Korea teaching college EFL, which was old hat for me. My teaching required little to no prep time. I was in class for (the standard) only about 16 hours a week with generous vacation. Also, I was six hours south of Seoul, i.e. of my wife. I was not pressed, and this place became my life! Little changed when I initially returned with sufficient savings to the States to New Jersey to my mom's place to do nothing but prep for the GRE. My 16+ waking hours were split about 50-50 between studying and working on this place. After taking the GRE, the first UH debacle happened. This extended this (some would say) "loser" period of my life for another 10 months. Added all up, for the first 2 years of this site's existence, from August of 2002 until August of 2004, when I finally commenced my graduate studies at Catholic U., and, mind you, almost ALL THIS TIME I was separated by some 8,000 miles from my wife, "the Gridiron" and its inhabitants got damn near 100% of my attention. So, as the site is progressing rapidly given the time and effort I was able to be putting in, my life changes drastically. I was under the erroneous impression that grad school would not prohibit me from "business" on "the Gridiron" as usual, so I maintained my "progressive" mindset and pushed the envelope with further improvements and additions to the site. But, reality kicked in... [smiley=doseofreality.gif] I was taking a full load of hardcore graduate courses, after being out of school for 10 YEARS mind you, and working 20 hours per week. Things became a strain, but I did not want to give up on this place... and you all, especially people like Jeff. The main point here is that I went from being able to "work" my ass off on this place without its feeling like work to just working my ass off at this place. This reality changed my mindset from enjoying being a benefactor to wanting, needing to be a beneficiary. So, you all did not change (but understand that this is double-edged sword as it means that, while, on the one hand, you all remained basically consistent, on the other, you all as a group didn't seem to sense the difference and seek to "help" pick up the slack, evidently "used to" the old "loser" Steg with nothing else better to do than put on his fantasy football show on "the Gridiron"). I did or, rather, my circumstances did. Meanwhile, somehow, busy as I was but holding on to a dream here that you all would "buy into" the co-op frame of mind of pooling resources to take FantasyFootballer.com to the next level (of providing us with our dream jobs), I was still exhausting myself pushing the envelope. Three tireless years later of trying to make this happen, and we are no closer. Financially, we actually took a step backwards from last year to this (from, roughly, a $500 profit to, roughly, $100). Mind you, I really wasn't trying to do it by just bleeding you guys of donations. I was trying to drum up the (relatively measly) $2,500 (which, mind you, my LONE poor ass could actually come up with right now, but, given the looming circumstances mentioned in the quote above, I could not justify doing) to get the magazine off the ground and my marketing plan in motion. And, mind you, I wasn't even trying to raise that money by just digging into your wallets for donations. I opened two other (modestly-priced, which kind of defeats the purpose) services to make it happen, StegsList.com and the Co-commissioner Services, both TOTAL flops. Your average five-year-old with a lemonade stand made out better over the last two years. [smiley=no.gif]

BUT, ALL hope is not lost. Back when I opened the site, as Jeff and Jim could attest, I said that we were on an eight-year plan, i.e., I felt that it would take eight years to make (somewhat of) a viable revenue-generating venture out of this. That, I suppose, still stands, but there are going to have to be steps taken backwards before we, I can again move forward (more on this at a later date). In fact, as things stand, at the conclusion of season eight on "the Gridiron" (we are headed in to season six), I should be ABD (All But Dissertation), i.e. done with classes. The timing for "the Gridiron" to rise from the ashes could be perfect. And, we do have dudes who ARE stepping it up. Along the lines of what I stated up in that quote above, it is people on whom I have a direct influence and who KNOW ME and WHAT'S IN MY HEART ALL TOO WELL, the GBRFL guys. These guys have ratcheted up their financial support BIG-time, and they, of all the people here, aren't going anywhere. This is not something for the rest of you to be proud of, but they were responsible for half of the donations this past year.

This leads me to the part of this spiel that most directly responds to the point of this thread. I first want to preface, though, that as hard as you may perceive I am on you, I am hardest on myself. Not one of you am I harder on than myself. If you look with an objective heart at how I go about my business (here), that should be obvious. I do not hold any of you to standards to which I do not hold myself nor do I say anything to any of you that I would not say to myself or my loved ones or close friends, including the GBRFLers (ask them). [For better (or worse)] I take that whole "What would Confucius do in the presence of the northeastern barbarians? With Confucius there would be no barbarians." stuff dead seriously. Bottom line, guys aren't putting their actions where their mouths are, no less their money where their mouths are. This is evidenced on and by this very thread and its author (sorry, sk). The title of this thread, "Where is the life?", is supposed to refer to the life on the boards. This was an astute observation of "'the Gridiron'-turned-ghost-ship" in '07 and an accurate way of stating the case. The problem, though, is that you lead by example. After making this thread, sk's level of participation on the boards, i.e. to at least help keep things up to the moment up in "the Red Zone", did not increase one bit. Now maybe he was throwing in the towel, but I surely hadn't. I was still up in "the Red Zone" and wherever plugging away. He created this thread, but the substantive follow-up, the leading by example, was missing. There is a reality here that is poignant to me. Not that this thread was out of line or a big headache,... but whenever I've had "other BS" going on, which down through the years has been fairly often, I (have been man enough to) still press on with the day-to-day stuff and participate throughout the site, making the regular updates and posting here and there. My experience here has been that other dudes tend to just shut down and just visit and revisit their "beef" section. If I've witnessed it once, I've witnessed it a thousand times... when a guy, who gets in a tussle with me (or someone else), only comes by to go to that one thread and NOWHERE else on the site. It's like they just lose sight of the bigger picture entirely, which BELIES their self-proclaimed love for the site and the friends they've made on it. Don't get me wrong... I don't mind the tussle. As long as they don't devolve into name-calling, they are a fantastic way to get to know one another better in this sterile environment. But, don't lose sight of the bigger picture in the process. Don't let it consume you.

So, in conclusion, the moral of the story, the next time you (the general "you", not YOU, sk) find yourself wanting to ask "Where is the life on 'the Gridiron'?", first, look no farther than at yourself. If everybody on "the Gridiron" did that and then did something about it, the problem would take care of itself without asking the question. (Also, know that the answer this upcoming season to the question "Where is the life?" is "in my little Gino's belly".) [smiley=ohshit.gif] ... ;) ... [smiley=newbie.gif] ... [smiley=yikes.gif]

Title: Re: WHERE IS THE LIFE?
Post by Callie on Apr 7^th, 2008, 12:09pm

You're gonna be a daddy??? Congrats!!!!!!!!!!

[smiley=crybaby.gif]

Title: Re: WHERE IS THE LIFE?
Post by MordecaiCourage on Apr 7^th, 2008, 1:44pm

Papa Steg......... ;D Congrats bro.

Title: Re: WHERE IS THE LIFE?
Post by StegRock on Apr 7^th, 2008, 10:08pm

[offtopic]Thank you very much, to both those here and who have contacted me behind the scene, for all the well wishes with regards to "little Steg"! :) But, "congratulations" are not in order. This was an unplanned pregnancy, which will likely have negative, if not disasterous, effects on this place... in the long-run, especially vis-a-vis my Philosophy studies, which, even while not enrolled, I have sunk my teeth into more. Again, as per the above, "the Gridiron" goes from virtually the #1 thing in my life just three and a half short years ago to a distant third by the end of this upcoming season. Gino and I were hoping to hold off for another two and a half years, at which time I would be ABD (as I mentioned above), but one [smiley=sperm.gif] obviously got by the goalie here on us. ;) At the end of the day, in any event, it is not about having 'em. It's actually a grave misfortune when couples cannot. It's about raising them. I only hope I can give it my all despite the particularly awkward timing (even just six months from now, after just arriving in San Fran, would have been better; think through the logistics on this one; we don't know a soul in San Fran, no less have family; Gino's due around the end of November just four short months after arriving, and hubby's a full-time student for the next two years :-/). I'm sure it will all work out, but we've got a particularly tough nut to crack. I'm just glad I've got such a supportive partner. For a moment, I thought I should just throw in the towel and we should just lay roots here, where we love it and where we have pretty good(-paying) jobs, though neither of us are happy with them. She, a "bigger picture" person, was like, "Are you nuts? It's not even a consideration for you not to finish out you education 1) because it is your passion and you are (going to be) great at it but, moreover, 2) because we should not forsake the long-term for the short-term." I'm a lucky guy! [smiley=shamrock.gif] [smiley=yes.gif] You can see where "the Gridiron" is going to start fitting in my life (or not), though. That said, as per the original eight-year plan mentioned above, if we SOMEHOW ?.?.? drum up "business" here over the next two years, things could still come together nicely as I become ABD. On the other hand, in the more immediate future, that auspiciousness for "the Gridiron" of my only having to take three courses for the next two falls (as opposed to four), which I recently talked about, really pales in comparison now to the "bigger picture". I guess we'll just have wait and see how things go...[/offtopic]

Title: Re: WHERE IS THE LIFE?
Post by MordecaiCourage on Apr 8^th, 2008, 12:00am

Unplanned or planned........Good timing or bad timing....does not matter in the big realm of life one bit SteveO......Congratulations ARE in order my friend! The biggest and best blessing by far that can ever happen for any loving couple has happened to the Steggers. So one got by the goalie huh? ;D Thank God , thank your lucky stars, thank whatever entity you want, just be thankful that it did ...... period! The Gridiron will float if it's meant to float...you go handle the daddy business and make it numero uno ya' hear! I trust all will be well around here when the newest Gridironer or Gridironette is born. [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Title: Re: WHERE IS THE LIFE?
Post by Philly on Apr 9^th, 2008, 7:42am

Congratulations on the baby, Steg. Like Ken said, it's a blessing no matter when/how/where it happens. I'm sure Tony will be more than happy to babysit when you need to spend a few hours working on the Grid (or your dissertation) since he'll be a neighbor of yours at that time! ;)

In all seriousness, I wish you and Gino the best and hope everything goes smoothly.

Title: Re: WHERE IS THE LIFE?
Post by MordecaiCourage on Apr 9^th, 2008, 11:20am

Mordecai StegEman (I fixed 'er right up!!)

[smiley=thinking.gif]

Now that would be a great name for a boy!!!!!!!

Title: Re: WHERE IS THE LIFE?
Post by StegRock on Apr 9^th, 2008, 4:42pm

First off, thanks, Jeff! :)

[offtopic]Edit...

on 04/09/08 at 11:20:53, MordecaiCourage wrote:

... StegEman

I've been dealing with that left out "e" my whole life,... newspapers, yearbooks, The Young & Son Media TOEIC Preparation Coursebook, etc. That's all... [/offtopic]

Title: Re: WHERE IS THE LIFE?
Post by Philly on Apr 10^th, 2008, 8:13am

on 04/09/08 at 16:42:42, StegRock wrote:

I've been dealing with that left out "e" my whole life,... newspapers, yearbooks, The Young & Son Media TOEIC Preparation Coursebook, etc. That's all...

C'mon Ken... show StegeRock a little respect and spell his name correctly! [smiley=hellyeafunny.gif]

Title: Re: WHERE IS THE LIFE? (in Gino, of course!)
Post by Drew Rosenhaus on Apr 10^th, 2008, 9:16am

Steve,

Very big congratulations to you and your entire family! What fantastic news for you guys.

On an important side note, I am very interested in talking with your child as soon as possible and see if he/she will help me procure your first round picks in 2020, 2021, 2022, 2023, 2024, 2025 and 2026.

Our best to you guys in Hawaii!