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   Time Has Come To Revisit the 3-Strike Rule
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   Author  Topic: Time Has Come To Revisit the 3-Strike Rule  (Read 4309 times)
DOLFAN
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Re: Time Has Come To Revisit the 3-Strike Rule
« Reply #25 on: Jun 18th, 2018, 6:19pm »
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After reading/looking/reviewing both proposals/ideas. I think either is a viable option and we could vote on. At first I thought it may be a bit harsh, and it still may be...but if we are talking about missing 3 weeks (that's between 12-20%), as it could have been 4-6 games out of 29. That is a lot IMO.  
Is 1/5 to 1/6 of the season enough of an infraction for a penalty? My opinion is yes it is. Again, missing 1 week: no biggie IMO, 2 or more some kind of penalty should be implemented, 3 definitely more harsh.  
 
I'm not choosing one from the other as I find both solid options...
Steg's first idea does make it so everyone is always trying to not be at the bottom, but it does penalize for the bottom, and maybe it should.
Warners' idea is a bit more balanced/strung out without the severity by including more teams and reducing lottery chances if you are at the bottom.  
....just my 2 cents
 
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Re: Time Has Come To Revisit the 3-Strike Rule
« Reply #26 on: Aug 6th, 2018, 5:41am »
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I am starting to become sold on an amalgam of what has heretofore been proposed.
 
On the proactive side of the ball, I still do like the idea of rewarding the 6th-through-3rd-place finishers, indeed, at the expense of the 10th-through-7th-place finishers. Sorry... I just do not see the downside for the individual teams outweighing the upside for the LEAGUE! I just foresee a very positive in-season impact. Even as the season progresses and teams fall out of contention, I see owners of those bottom teams staying engaged and trying their hardest to get out of the bottom four... for if they do not, they will surely finish there and, frankly speaking, get their just deserts. Likewise, teams in the upper-middle of the pack are going to be fighting to stay above 7th place. Bottom line, I still want yous to really think this idea through. We can always reverse out of it after a couple years.
 
That said, Steve's idea is a decent compromise that I could support. Here that is...
 
on Jun 16th, 2018, 10:37pm, Stegfucius wrote:
I still like my proposal, but I also like this one, especially given its simplicity. I could be down with something like 20 lottery tickets in the proverbial hat: 9th and 10th place get 4 each; 7th and 8th place get 3 each; 5th and 6th place get 2 each; 3rd and 4th place get 1 each.

On the reactive/punitive side of the ball, here is where I am... Let's change the sports metaphor from baseball to golf... When it comes to failing to submit a lineup, you get ONE mulligan. After that, you lose ONE protection spot for EVERY lineup submission you miss. That seems like a reasonable penalty between too harsh and not harsh enough, which seems to be what we are struggling to come up with.
« Last Edit: Aug 14th, 2018, 4:08pm by Stegfucius » Logged
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Re: Time Has Come To Revisit the 3-Strike Rule
« Reply #27 on: Aug 14th, 2018, 12:29pm »
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I am good with the loss of a protection spot. I hope this would encourage participation.  
 
While I understand the thought of reworking the lottery to keep it 'competitive' all year and 'punishing' the bottom teams, I think since this is a deep keeper league that it would be difficult for the bottom teams to improve if they don't get the top picks.
 
I am more amenable to modifying the lottery so everyone who didnt finish in the top 2 would get some sort of pick. (I would honestly reduce the number of trophys too- and put the funds towards the website) I think modifying the lottery would definitely change the value of 1st round draft picks.
 
However, I am not sure the lottery needs to be reworked at this time as I dont see the lottery necessarily tying into non-participation.  
 
« Last Edit: Aug 14th, 2018, 1:18pm by DirkDiggler » Logged

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Re: Time Has Come To Revisit the 3-Strike Rule
« Reply #28 on: Aug 14th, 2018, 3:55pm »
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on Aug 14th, 2018, 12:29pm, DirkDiggler wrote:
I am good with the loss of a protection spot. I hope this would encourage participation.  
 
While I understand the thought of reworking the lottery to keep it 'competitive' all year and 'punishing' the bottom teams, I think since this is a deep keeper league that it would be difficult for the bottom teams to improve if they don't get the top picks.

All of this, but most notably the assertion that bottom teams cannot lift themselves up over time through free-agency, trades and the good 1st-round picks they still have, sans ultrahigh draft picks, would require a study. Though the change to the lottery I am proposing would surely present a challenge (that is the point), it would not at all be necessarily insurmountable. In fact, I do not think it would be at all. Moreover, a change to the lottery in the way I am proposing may encourage more trading of future 1st-round draft picks and, therefore, more trading and activity overall (because ALL 1st rounders have serious value -- heck, try getting just the #10 pick right now -- good luck). Furthermore, trading (future or following-year) 1st-rounders may be a way for an owner anticipating a bad finish for his team to mitigate the damage, BUT that will take EFFORT and PARTICIPATION, which again is the point!
 
 
Quote:
I am more amenable to modifying the lottery so everyone who didnt finish in the top 2 would get some sort of pick. (I would honestly reduce the number of trophys too- and put the funds towards the website)

Just an FYI, the amount of money we would save by removing a plaque or two, which I would be very against by the way because I think they do function as incentives (for some/many of us), which we surely do not want to reduce (see below for more on this), would amount to a drip in the bucket of what a true site upgrade would cost, like one that would bring the site more up to the times and fully alleviate the ongoing issue I am dealing with (which, by the way, has gotten much better after I spent a good part of last Friday with a techie via chat solving some things behind the scenes). Mind you, the $100-$200 or so that we would save by removing a plaque or two would go nice in my wallet, but since it would not be a difference-maker for the site, I would RATHER put it toward plaques. Bottom line, cutting a plaque or two is not going to even come close to providing a difference-making revenue stream. Honestly, that the thought even entered someone's consciousness is somewhat disappointing to me. What do you think? Based on the baseline $50 league fee I have been charging for last 22 or so years, you think I am rolling in it over here, the cost of a couple plaques away from website bliss? ...
 
 
Quote:
I think modifying the lottery would definitely change the value of 1st round draft picks.

Pre-lottery, sure, but not post-lottery. And, change in and of itself is neither good nor bad. Indeed, the one thing we know about change is that people do not like it.
 
 
Quote:
However, I am not sure the lottery needs to be reworked at this time as I dont see the lottery necessarily tying into non-participation.

Well, neither do protection spots. In fact, protection spots have absolutely nothing to do with (non)participation. At least, the inauguration of the lottery was done with participation partially in mind. But, ultimately, solving this is about establishing intelligent reactive punishments (losing protection spots) and/or proactive incentives (which may be able to be created by tinkering with the lottery, but about which we will never know unless we try). Again, not to get all Buddhist here, but nothing (in this world) is permanent.
« Last Edit: Aug 14th, 2018, 5:20pm by Stegfucius » Logged
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Re: Time Has Come To Revisit the 3-Strike Rule
« Reply #29 on: Aug 14th, 2018, 5:55pm »
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The Mulligan, then loss of a PS for each/every infraction after that is fine by me. Simple and to the point.  
 
The person will get to fill his last roster spot/s back with the very last pick/s in draft.
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Re: Time Has Come To Revisit the 3-Strike Rule
« Reply #30 on: Aug 18th, 2018, 7:26pm »
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I am quoting this content regarding the "reparative side" of the "nonparticipation issue" so as to help make sure you all consult it heading into meeting and draft day in two weeks.
 
on Jan 1st, 2018, 5:59pm, Stegfucius wrote:
.. there are two sides of the equation here: the punitive and the reparative. I have addressed the punitive, and she [Gino] agrees with the kinds of measures I proposed. WE STILL HAVE TO HAMMER THEM OUT, of course! However, she aptly points out that that does nothing to repair the problem that has occurred.
 
... she said that after a team owner has missed submitting his lineup for just ONE week, there should be somebody/some body designated to submit a backup lineup (by private message to me) for that team owner just in case. At that point in our conversation, we hit the obvious brick wall... How to determine the designee? After going around in circles with options for a while, a solution came to us: afford some privilege to those at the top of the standings! In other words, the initial designee would be the guy in 1st place; if he is playing the team in question, it goes to the guy in 2nd place; if he too is playing the team in question, it goes to the guy in 3rd place. If other (unlikely) factors are involved, it would continue to cascade down the standings. Seems like a solid line of reasoning and a pretty awesome solution.
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Re: Time Has Come To Revisit the 3-Strike Rule
« Reply #31 on: Aug 20th, 2018, 2:31pm »
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I'm in agreement with losing a protection spot for the failure to submit a lineup after the first time.  
 
With regards to having another team submit a lineup for someone who fails to do so, I am opposed to it as I think that this opens up too many potential issues and puts obligations on other team owners who may not want it.
 
I can discuss this in more detail at the draft.
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Re: Time Has Come To Revisit the 3-Strike Rule
« Reply #32 on: Aug 23rd, 2018, 10:13pm »
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on Aug 20th, 2018, 2:31pm, Pakman wrote:
I'm in agreement with losing a protection spot for the failure to submit a lineup after the first time.
 
With regards to having another team submit a lineup for someone who fails to do so, I am opposed to it as I think that this opens up too many potential issues and puts obligations on other team owners who may not want it.
 
I can discuss this in more detail at the draft.

 
Heya, Rob! Thanks for chiming in. Just an FYI, though... While there are no worries about your not being able to attend the lottery (after all, you had nothing at stake), it has to be said that your reply lacks responsiveness to the fairly in-depth discussion we had during the draft-lottery meeting. Indeed, I brought the content I did to the fore not because I was trying to force it (which admittedly I have been known to do) but in specific response to how and where that discussion went. That is to say, we ended up honing back in on "what the problem is" and how to deal with it directly and away from punitive measures that we would hope would act as deterrents.
« Last Edit: Aug 23rd, 2018, 10:14pm by Stegfucius » Logged
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Re: Time Has Come To Revisit the 3-Strike Rule
« Reply #33 on: Aug 24th, 2018, 10:04am »
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Although I think that I initially suggested the idea about the loss of a protection spot as the penalty for not putting in a lineup, I have since change my mind.  After our discussion during the lottery, I do not believe that there should be any penalty in our league for not putting in lineups.  
 
I think that when we encounter an owner that is not putting in lineups due to a lack of interest then we should address that owner individually.
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Re: Time Has Come To Revisit the 3-Strike Rule
« Reply #34 on: Aug 26th, 2018, 4:04am »
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on Aug 24th, 2018, 10:04am, DB wrote:
Although I think that I initially suggested the idea about the loss of a protection spot as the penalty for not putting in a lineup, I have since change my mind. After our discussion during the lottery, I do not believe that there should be any penalty in our league for not putting in lineups.

 
While I remain interested in seeing what we can come up with for an in-season fix for a derelict lineup, I have actually come to think that punitive measures may not work the first time around (as DT suggested), BUT they may after they have been felt,... providing they are "severe enough" (whatever that means, which is what needs to be figured out).
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Re: Time Has Come To Revisit the 3-Strike Rule
« Reply #35 on: Sep 9th, 2018, 2:20pm »
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Heyas, Fellas! At the 2018 Summer Meeting & Draft we came to the determination that for any single week a lineup is missed we will let it cascade and for any consecutive week a lineup is missed we will defer to a website that provides weekly rankings/projections and just go down the list. For the latter, the website I have chosen because they are (arguably) the biggest name in the business and they provide projections -- and specific fantasy points -- along with the rankings (which we need because, for one, we include tight ends as receivers) is NFL.com and their weekly projections/rankings available at: http://fantasy.nfl.com/research/projections.
 
Hopefully we never have to defer to this...
« Last Edit: Sep 9th, 2018, 2:21pm by Stegfucius » Logged
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Re: Time Has Come To Revisit the 3-Strike Rule
« Reply #36 on: Aug 16th, 2019, 11:29pm »
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on Sep 9th, 2018, 2:20pm, Stegfucius wrote:
Heyas, Fellas! At the 2018 Summer Meeting & Draft we came to the determination that for any single week a lineup is missed we will let it cascade and for any consecutive week a lineup is missed we will defer to a website that provides weekly rankings/projections and just go down the list. For the latter, the website I have chosen because they are (arguably) the biggest name in the business and they provide projections -- and specific fantasy points -- along with the rankings (which we need because, for one, we include tight ends as receivers) is NFL.com and their weekly projections/rankings available at: http://fantasy.nfl.com/research/projections.
 
Hopefully we never have to defer to this...

 
WW!!! I, and evidently everybody, forgot we even made this determination last year!!! PS!!!
 
Here's to hoping this would not have made a difference...
 
All of that said, it does not address the punitive,... eh-hem,... reparative side of things, which incidentally are more straightforwardly implementable and will NOT slip anyone's mind.
« Last Edit: Aug 17th, 2019, 6:17am by Stegfucius » Logged
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