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Stegfucius
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2021 Rules/Scoring Changes
« on: Sep 6th, 2021, 12:26pm »
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Heyas, All...  Getting back to documenting things a bit better here again...  Below are the results of the rules/scoring topics we took official votes on yesterday:
 
By a vote of 9 for, 1 against and 0 abstentions the proposed change to the bonus category of passing completion percentage from 65% to 69% was APPROVED.
 
By a vote of 8 for, 2 against and 0 abstentions the proposed change to the bonus category of passing yards from 550 to 600 was APPROVED.
 
By a vote of 1 for, 9 against and 0 abstentions the proposed change to the bonus category of passing touchdowns from 6 to 7 was REJECTED.
 
By a vote of 5 for, 5 against and 0 abstentions the proposed change to the bonus category of yards per rush from 4.2 to 4.5 was REJECTED.
 
By a vote of 1 for, 7 against and 2 abstentions the proposed change to the bonus category of rushing yards from 250 to 275 was REJECTED.
 
By a vote of 4 for, 3 against and 3 abstentions the proposed change to the bonus category of receiving yards from 300 to 325 was APPROVED.
 
By a vote of 5 for, 5 against and 0 abstentions the proposed change to the bonus category of defense points allowed from 14 to 16 was REJECTED.
 
By a vote of 7 for, 3 against and 0 abstentions the proposed change to the bonus category of defense yards allowed from 250 to 275 was APPROVED.
 
By a vote of 7 for, 3 against and 0 abstentions the proposed change to the point value awarded for the head-to-head category of kicking field goals 50+ yards from 4 to 3 was APPROVED.
 
By a vote of 5 for, 5 against and 0 abstentions the proposal to award the 2021 expansion owner an extra free-agent pick for a number of weeks to be determined by a potential further vote was REJECTED.
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Re: 2021 Rules/Scoring Changes
« Reply #1 on: Nov 11th, 2021, 12:00pm »
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By a vote of 8 for Week 15, 1 for Week 14 and 1 abstention the annual "Trade Deadline" was moved from Week 14 to Week 15.
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Re: 2021 Rules/Scoring Changes
« Reply #2 on: Nov 20th, 2022, 9:47pm »
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By a vote of 7 for, 2 against and 1 abstention a lineup-submission procedure involving two separate Thursday/Saturday and Sunday/Saturday submissions (details outlined below) beginning in the 2023-2024 season was APPROVED.
 
  • Before the kickoff of the first (non-Sunday) game(s) of the week, like on Thursday or Saturday, ...
    • ... STARTERS for those early Thursday/Saturday games must be declared.
      • Whatever Thursday/Saturday players/defenses are NOT listed as starters for the week's games automatically go to the END of a team's lineup (in the order of prior lineup submissions or order of acquisition per the "Rosters" page, that is, per usual practice).
    • ... FREE-AGENT requests, including coaches, for the week must be made.
      • Free-agent requests that play on Thursday/Saturday should/will be treated as stated above.
      • (Coaches are otherwise dealt with according to the logic of our system.)
    • ... TRADES for the week must be reported.
      • Players/Defenses acquired via trade that play on Thursday/Saturday should/will be treated as stated above.
  • Coaches are listed on the Thursday/Saturday lineup-submission form.
  • Players/Defenses that played Thursday/Saturday should either NOT be included on the Sunday/Saturday lineup-submission form or, PREFERABLY (if known and you want to be a really good GBRFL owner and do the commissioner a solid), listed in their rightful bottom slots (any shenigans... or, I hate to say this but,... mistakes will be greatly unappreciated because it will complicate the commissioner's job -- just sayin').
« Last Edit: Dec 18th, 2022, 9:50pm by Stegfucius » Logged
DirkDiggler
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Re: 2021 Rules/Scoring Changes
« Reply #3 on: Nov 22nd, 2022, 10:54am »
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A potential scenario to ponder:     
 
Lets say I have Joe Mixon who plays on Sunday.   He is questionable with a concussion, but I clearly want to start him  
if he plays.  So I am gonna list him as my RB 1
 
That same week, I hypothetically have Miles Sanders playing on Thursday.  He is my RB #4 that week behind Mixon, Rachaad White, and Ekeler.   Could I list MIles Sanders as my RB 4 and he be locked in there?    Or would he automatically fall to my last line up spot so some scrub like CEH would have be my starter instead of Miles Sanders (if Mixon is ruled out)?
 
Could I make a note of my intentions of NOT changing my line up and it being set?  If I dont make that note, Miles Sanders in the scenario above would default to the last spot even if I dont resubmit a line up?
 
 
If I do the above for RBs, could I still adjust QB or WR?
 
 
 
« Last Edit: Nov 22nd, 2022, 5:04pm by DirkDiggler » Logged

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Re: 2021 Rules/Scoring Changes
« Reply #4 on: Nov 23rd, 2022, 6:42pm »
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on Nov 22nd, 2022, 10:54am, DirkDiggler wrote:
A potential scenario to ponder:     
 
Lets say I have Joe Mixon who plays on Sunday.   He is questionable with a concussion, but I clearly want to start him if he plays.  So I am gonna list him as my RB 1
 
That same week, I hypothetically have Miles Sanders playing on Thursday.  He is my RB #4 that week behind Mixon, Rachaad White, and Ekeler.   Could I list MIles Sanders as my RB 4 and he be locked in there?    Or would he automatically fall to my last line up spot so some scrub like CEH would have be my starter instead of Miles Sanders (if Mixon is ruled out)?

 
Good line of questions, though we did hammer this (situation which is ripe for shenanigans) out in the summer (it was DB's concern).  The answer to your first question there is NO.  So, that is that for that.  The answer to the second question is, thus, YES.  (I am thinking you might have asked this just to get it on the record.)
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Re: 2021 Rules/Scoring Changes
« Reply #5 on: Nov 23rd, 2022, 9:08pm »
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on Nov 23rd, 2022, 6:42pm, Stegfucius wrote:

 
Good line of questions, though we did hammer this (situation which is ripe for shenanigans) out in the summer (it was DB's concern).  The answer to your first question there is NO.  So, that is that for that.  The answer to the second question is, thus, YES.  (I am thinking you might have asked this just to get it on the record.)

 
Hmmm, I dont recall that conversation IF you put a note.   Then again, I was one of the NO votes on the whole proposal.    
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Re: 2021 Rules/Scoring Changes
« Reply #6 on: Nov 23rd, 2022, 10:53pm »
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I DIGRESS...
    I too was a no-vote on this for a loooong time, as you should know.  I finally caved.  I mean, in principle, I do not entirely disagree with the proposal.  However, I have realized some further factors on the administrative side that give me further pause on this, too, especially since the mindset at the summer meeting was that this would be an experiment in 2023 and that we could revisit it, reconsider it and reverse it (right away for 2024).  Also, as league administrator, I just do not see it make that much of a difference, at least not relative to the effort that needs to be put into it to make it happen, both on my behalf but also on everybody's as we all will now have to submit lineups twice a week.  I also wonder how much of this was borne of just one noisy league member with one backup player (Mattison) on whom, within the parameters of the rules we all play by, said member should have just tried to trade and cut his losses.  Instead, we have all this rigmarole to look forward to...
« Last Edit: Nov 24th, 2022, 1:27pm by Stegfucius » Logged
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Re: 2021 Rules/Scoring Changes
« Reply #7 on: Nov 24th, 2022, 8:29am »
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If there are additional admin challenges (which I can imagine not all of them have even come to light yet) then I certainly believe bringing this up for discussion again.  The return on the level of effort you will have to put in doesn't make sense.  And there is the whole factor of people just fucking it up, including me.   I usually have no idea who is playing Thursday until I turn on the game.  
 
And I have a situation this week in which the option for a Sunday line up would be Interesting to have.  Both Ja'maar and Joe Mixon are questionable with injuries.  With that said, the decision to put them in the lineup is an interesting part of the game and has made entering my line up intriguing.   (I decided to split the lineups). Chase may go off for 159 yards, or may play 10 snaps with 1 catch for 8 yards.   I wouldn't change the process.   Risk/reward decisions are part of the game in a unique format.  
 
Having to make that decision and being able to leverage the cascading lineup makes it interesting.   You live and die by the info you have.........but cascading eliminates most risk.  Even with the scenario above, I would still vote no, even more so considering the additional work you will have to do.    
 
I feel like this is an inverse Pareto Principle in which 10% of the problems will create 90% of the work
 
 
 
« Last Edit: Nov 24th, 2022, 12:22pm by DirkDiggler » Logged

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Re: 2021 Rules/Scoring Changes
« Reply #8 on: Nov 25th, 2022, 6:49pm »
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If you can put a Thursday night player in the 4th lineup position then, if that player has a good night, then you would be able to start an injured/inactive/bye week player so that your Thursday player counts.  I don't know if that is a concern as much a potential strategy you would be able to use if we went that route.
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Re: 2021 Rules/Scoring Changes
« Reply #9 on: Nov 25th, 2022, 8:18pm »
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on Nov 25th, 2022, 6:49pm, DB wrote:
If you can put a Thursday night player in the 4th lineup position then, if that player has a good night, then you would be able to start an injured/inactive/bye week player so that your Thursday player counts.  I don't know if that is a concern as much a potential strategy you would be able to use if we went that route.

 
Agree, and could be easily abused.  That is why I think the NOTE would be key and you could not resubmit your line up RB line up if you had the note.  
« Last Edit: Nov 25th, 2022, 8:18pm by DirkDiggler » Logged

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Re: 2021 Rules/Scoring Changes
« Reply #10 on: Nov 26th, 2022, 2:50pm »
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on Nov 25th, 2022, 8:18pm, DirkDiggler wrote:
Agree, and could be easily abused.

 
What DB is describing is exactly what we discussed in thorough in the summer.  But, as Steve suggests here it is not a good point of strategy to be adding to our game.  Frankly speaking, it is cheating, and the allowance and employment of such a "strategy" would be the breeding ground of VERY ILL WILL that destroys leagues.  We would not want to invite that into our game.
 
Quote:
That is why I think the NOTE would be key and you could not resubmit your line up RB line up if you had the note.

 
I balked at this in the summer if my memory serves me right.  In any case, I am balking at it now.  The grounds of my balkiness are that the noting of exceptions would make this already highly-involved, new procedure even more complicated.  What has made the GBRFL so durable and, thus, enduring is that its rules and procedures (like cascading), while not being simpleminded and unsophisticated, are ultimately straightforward, cut-and-dry and not (all too) high-maintenance (which is important for this very unique and "vintage" league with its old-school technology and procedures).
 
In any event, it was passed by a "7 to 2 to 1" vote as above.  This is not the time to lobby for details about its administration (especially details that we might have very well hashed out during the lengthy discussion of this in the summer).  The ONLY thing open for discussion at this point would be a reconsideration of the modification in whole with a retraction of it in toto in mind (indeed, when we passed this, the shared mindset was that we could revisit it and reverse out of it right away for 2024).  I know that I have had some realizations after the fact that give me serious pause, one HUGE one on the IT-administrator side of things, the development of the extra lineup-submissions portal (vis-à-vis some highly anticipated goings on in my personal/professional life this offseason, which is hopefully going to have me extra busy ).
 
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Re: 2021 Rules/Scoring Changes
« Reply #11 on: Nov 26th, 2022, 3:38pm »
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To be clear, I am not inviting nor encouraging cheating with my question.   I was truly asking a logistical question......with that said, it sounds like my question is a no-go which is fine.  And I understand the reasoning.  
 
 
 
« Last Edit: Nov 26th, 2022, 3:46pm by DirkDiggler » Logged

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Re: 2021 Rules/Scoring Changes
« Reply #12 on: Nov 26th, 2022, 5:25pm »
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I DIGRESS...
    I too, Steve, all, was just pointing out what I take to be the fact of the matter with my "cheating" comment.  If anything, I suppose it would be directed at DB, though that was not my intention, either.  After all, the "cheating" element would be undermined/mitigated by your suggestion, Steve. -  It is just that the solution you suggest is quite cumbersome.  That said, my "lobbying" comment was directed at/inspired by both of you.  Addressing the hard, harsh matters and keeping things on point I take to be an important part of the role of commissioner.  Corralling you cats has not been easy over these 30+ YEARS.
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Re: 2021 Rules/Scoring Changes
« Reply #13 on: Nov 26th, 2022, 7:07pm »
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on Nov 26th, 2022, 5:25pm, Stegfucius wrote:
I DIGRESS...
    I too, Steve, all, was just pointing out what I take to be the fact of the matter with my "cheating" comment.  If anything, I suppose it would be directed at DB, though that was not my intention, either.  After all, the "cheating" element would be undermined/mitigated by your suggestion, Steve. -  It is just that the solution you suggest is quite cumbersome.  That said, my "lobbying" comment was directed at/inspired by both of you.  Addressing the hard, harsh matters and keeping things on point I take to be an important part of the role of commissioner.  Corralling you cats has not been easy over these 30+ YEARS.

 
 
Corralling has probably been a nightmare at times.  I imagine that adding this new lineup is just ANOTHER thing that will have to be corralled.    I think you know my opinion on this....
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Re: 2021 Rules/Scoring Changes
« Reply #14 on: Nov 26th, 2022, 7:12pm »
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I believe we need to make every effort to be able to put lineups in as late as possible. We are in a much different era where we don't get most information until Sat or even Sunday am, the teams need the ability to put best players on the field. Maybe find another software option to score games, not sure what the answer is to help you but i feel so strongly about this that i am willing to change our entire scoring system to have the ability to add/change lineups as late as possible.
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Re: 2021 Rules/Scoring Changes
« Reply #15 on: Nov 26th, 2022, 7:37pm »
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on Nov 26th, 2022, 7:12pm, IbdFunk wrote:
... i feel so strongly about this that i am willing to change our entire scoring system to have the ability to add/change lineups as late as possible.

That is rich!!!  Again, you(s) are , as a group if yous so wish and if yous can pull it off, Danny, to reconstitute under a different system, set of rules and league-management system and play together.  NO ONE is stopping you.  Truth be said, the GBRFL's, categorized, head-to-head scoring system limits lineups-submission options.  If you went with a run-of-the-mill, cumulative-points ESPN-, Yahoo!-type system, as Joe was (to me, frustratingly ) suggesting at the summer meeting (because I knew this is where this ultimately goes), yous could more or less allow for lineup changes even up to the kickoff of Monday night's game.  How awesome would that be, Danny?  I say, if you are that passionate about it, go for it!  Indeed, I wish you the best of luck with it!  I am going to continue doing my old-school thang here for 7 to 9 guys (+ me) who are interested in playing under this system, set of rules and league-management style.  So, that is that for that... here.
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Re: 2021 Rules/Scoring Changes
« Reply #16 on: Nov 26th, 2022, 8:55pm »
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on Nov 25th, 2022, 8:18pm, DirkDiggler wrote:

 
Agree, and could be easily abused.  That is why I think the NOTE would be key and you could not resubmit your line up RB line up if you had the note.  

 
A note would not be needed: you could just not submit another lineup that week, right?
 
If the new lineup system doesn't allow us to do what Warner is asking, I'm probably not in favor of it. I think it imperative we be able to lock in any player to a particular lineup spot. If we can't, then the new system is in that respect LESS flexible than our current system.
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Re: 2021 Rules/Scoring Changes
« Reply #17 on: Nov 26th, 2022, 9:29pm »
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on Nov 26th, 2022, 8:55pm, Travistotle wrote:

 
A note would not be needed: you could just not submit another lineup that week, right?
 
If the new lineup system doesn't allow us to do what Warner is asking, I'm probably not in favor of it. I think it imperative we be able to lock in any player to a particular lineup spot. If we can't, then the new system is in that respect LESS flexible than our current system.
.  
While this topic was already put to bed, not having a note could lead to all sorts of nefarious things.  That is why it was determined the Thursday night players would either be listed as top three, or they would automatically go to the end of the line up
 
 
The question now is:  Based on the heavy lift for Steg to set it up and then monitor it every week, is it really worth it?    
 
 
« Last Edit: Nov 26th, 2022, 9:41pm by DirkDiggler » Logged

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Re: 2021 Rules/Scoring Changes
« Reply #18 on: Nov 26th, 2022, 9:46pm »
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on Nov 26th, 2022, 9:29pm, DirkDiggler wrote:

.  
While this topic was already put to bed, not having a note could lead to all sorts of nefarious things.  That is why it was determined the Thursday night players would either be listed as top three, or they would automatically go to the end of the line up.
 
 

 
I'm not seeing what nefarious things could happen with no note being left. If no note, and no second lineup, the first/only lineup is the entire lineup. If no note, and a second lineup is submitted, the Thurs/Sat players go to the end of the lineup. Right?
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Re: 2021 Rules/Scoring Changes
« Reply #19 on: Nov 26th, 2022, 9:54pm »
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I am actually willing to hear anything out, but DB's concern seems indefeasible and overriding (and hashing this out does get tiresome because it seems like we go around in circles on this and it involves cat herding ).  Also, Travis, maybe I am missing something obvious, but how would doing it the way we agreed to at the summer meeting, that is, the way it is outlined above be less flexible than it is now...??? ...
« Last Edit: Nov 26th, 2022, 9:55pm by Stegfucius » Logged
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Re: 2021 Rules/Scoring Changes
« Reply #20 on: Nov 26th, 2022, 10:01pm »
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on Nov 26th, 2022, 9:46pm, Travistotle wrote:
If no note, and no second lineup, the first/only lineup is the entire lineup. If no note, and a second lineup is submitted, the Thurs/Sat players go to the end of the lineup. Right?

 
So, how do you envision the Thursday/Saturday lineup-submission form/page?  And, then, how do you envision the Sunday lineup-submission form/page?  I mean, mind you, I may be a dum-dum, but this is sounding totally confusing to me!
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Re: 2021 Rules/Scoring Changes
« Reply #21 on: Nov 26th, 2022, 10:27pm »
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on Nov 22nd, 2022, 10:54am, DirkDiggler wrote:
That same week, I hypothetically have Miles Sanders playing on Thursday.  He is my RB #4 that week behind Mixon, Rachaad White, and Ekeler.   Could I list MIles Sanders as my RB 4 and he be locked in there?    Or would he automatically fall to my last line up spot so some scrub like CEH would have be my starter instead of Miles Sanders (if Mixon is ruled out)?
 
Could I make a note of my intentions of NOT changing my line up and it being set?  If I dont make that note, Miles Sanders in the scenario above would default to the last spot even if I dont resubmit a line up?

 
So, in short, to this point in the presentation, what you guys are suggesting is that we leave open the OPTION to submit a WHOLE lineup on Thursday or Saturday, right?
 
Got it, but, then, THIS remains at issue ...
 
Quote:
If I do the above for RBs, could I still adjust QB or WR?

 
... and the whole fucker blows up in terms of exponentially greater degrees of, at least, administrative complicatedness and potential points of bitching and moaning, which ultimately only one of us has to deal with.
 
And, ANYway, around in circles we go...  Where it stops, nobody knows!!!
 
In the meantime, save for one, perhaps, two squeaky wheels we seem pretty content and have since the institution of Thursday-night games 15+ years ago and Thanksgiving-Thursday games since the beginning of time.
 
We have got to put some aspects of this to rest!!!  NOTHING is going to be perfect.  After all, Thursday football itself is not ideal.
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Re: 2021 Rules/Scoring Changes
« Reply #22 on: Nov 26th, 2022, 10:38pm »
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on Nov 26th, 2022, 9:54pm, Stegfucius wrote:
I am actually willing to hear anything out, but DB's concern seems indefeasible and overriding

 
I answered this earlier: if you don't submit another lineup, no shenanigans are possible, so no problem; if you do, then those players go to the back of the line. Either way, no problem.
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Re: 2021 Rules/Scoring Changes
« Reply #23 on: Nov 26th, 2022, 10:42pm »
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on Nov 26th, 2022, 9:54pm, Stegfucius wrote:
Also, Travis, maybe I am missing something obvious, but how would doing it the way we agreed to at the summer meeting, that is, the way it is outlined above be less flexible than it is now...??? ...

 
In Warner's scenario in the new system, you can't put Mixon as #1 and Sanders as #4 and have it cascade to Sanders if Mixon doesn't play (unless we adopt my proposal or Warner's "note" proposal for doing this kind of thing in the new system...)
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Re: 2021 Rules/Scoring Changes
« Reply #24 on: Nov 26th, 2022, 11:09pm »
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Got it, T.!
 
on Nov 26th, 2022, 10:38pm, Travistotle wrote:
I answered this earlier: if you don't submit another lineup, no shenanigans are possible, so no problem; if you do, then those players go to the back of the line. Either way, no problem.

 
Not the logic of it, but the procedure is a bit clunky and complicated, though, and LOTS of room for misunderstanding(s) and headaches, and, to top it off, it potentially does not (satisfactorily, for some) solve the problem because we are still submitting our lineups on Thursday with the possibility that your hands are ironically tied as you may not want to submit a Sunday lineup based on how you did on Thursday.  No?
 
Doesn't the inverse of DB's concern exist...???  If your player/defense did poorly on Thursday, wouldn't you want to purposely create sheanigans and submit a Sunday lineup so that your Thursday player/defense goes to the end of your list???
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