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Topic: Remember to think about the flex lineup issue! (Read 3137 times) |
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Philosopher King
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Remember to think about the flex lineup issue!
« on: Sep 4th, 2003, 8:45pm » |
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Guys,
Remember at this year's "Summer Meeting & Draft" we discussed the idea of allowing teams, on weeks when they have a bonus game, to put in different starting lineups for their two games. The point was that a) based on the strengths and weaknesses of each of your opponent's rosters, you may want to play one set of players against one team while another set against the other, b) sometimes you are torn between a couple players and the implementation of this system would allow you to split your decision and play both guys, one against one team, one against the other, a cool, innovative option and, ultimately, c) all of this would further reward team depth, which is a good thing. In any case, the idea was VERY well-received at the meeting and I really want you guys to remain cognitive of it throughout this season so we can draw an educated conclusion on it at the end of the season.
So, guys, both GBRFLers and GBRFL2ers, feel free to chronicle your thoughts on this issue (as they progress) throughout the season right here on this thread. I look forward to reading your comments and questions! 
Be in touch! I am...
...Sincerely,
Steve Steg 
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Philosopher King
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Re: Remember to think about the flex lineup issue!
« Reply #5 on: Sep 5th, 2003, 12:27am » |
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Na... I mean I would want to tailor-make the lineup submission page more exactly in the long-run, hell, I want to make improvements in it in general, but, regardless of that, there would be ways of indicating your "two" lineups on the submission page as it is by making comments and using slashes and dashes and such.
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Re: Remember to think about the flex lineup issue!
« Reply #6 on: Sep 5th, 2003, 8:54am » |
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on Sep 5th, 2003, 12:27am, StegRock wrote:| Na... I mean I would want to tailor-make the lineup submission page more exactly in the long-run, hell, I want to make improvements in it in general, but, regardless of that, there would be ways of indicating your "two" lineups on the submission page as it is by making comments and using slashes and dashes and such. |
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Cool... If you are updating the lineup submission page (and this should be an easy one to do)... Can you put starters on one line and backups on another, or signify their status with the field name somehow? When you play in more than one league, it is difficult to remember how many starters each league has...
Also, we GBRFL2ers may be part of the "Your a Peon League," but we seem to be the only ones interested in league issues. Where are all of these high-and-mighty GBRFLers weighing in with their opinions? 
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Gridiron Great
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Re: Remember to think about the flex lineup issue!
« Reply #7 on: Sep 5th, 2003, 12:45pm » |
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on Sep 5th, 2003, 8:54am, Philly wrote:
Cool... If you are updating the lineup submission page (and this should be an easy one to do)... Can you put starters on one line and backups on another, or signify their status with the field name somehow? When you play in more than one league, it is difficult to remember how many starters each league has...
Also, we GBRFL2ers may be part of the "Your a Peon League," but we seem to be the only ones interested in league issues. Where are all of these high-and-mighty GBRFLers weighing in with their opinions? |
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These high and mighty GBRFLers are smart enough to figure out which of our players are starting and which are not. We know how many starters there are. We don't need no stinkin' line telling us which are starters. Besides, your 4th guy may become a starter if any of the top 3 don't start. That is why you basically list your entire roster every week.
As far as why we are not chiming in.....
because we read the post:
Quote:So, guys, both GBRFLers and GBRFL2ers, feel free to chronicle your thoughts on this issue (as they progress) throughout the season right here on this thread. I look forward to reading your comments and questions!
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We just talked about it at our draft. AS the season progresses, we will chime in.....
But now that I am posting, I will go ahead and tell you how I feel. I don't like it. I am always going to put my best team on the field no matter what the match up is. I just think it is creating work where work doesn't need to be created. I like having to live by your decisions. One line up for both games is my personal opinion.
Thanks and have a great day!
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Re: Remember to think about the flex lineup issue!
« Reply #8 on: Sep 5th, 2003, 2:51pm » |
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Wow.  . I like the inter league trash talk. We should get bonus games against these guys  for some easy wins.
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Re: Remember to think about the flex lineup issue!
« Reply #9 on: Sep 5th, 2003, 4:28pm » |
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on Sep 5th, 2003, 2:51pm, DB wrote:| Wow. . I like the inter league trash talk. We should get bonus games against these guys for some easy wins. |
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Looking at your roster, I certainly wouldn't mind a bonus game against you. You must really like those Redskin WRs! Even former 'Skin Derrius Thompson? Too bad I'm not in your league or I'd acquire Art Monk and Gary Clark and trade them to you. 
Although I must admit that Cowboy RB ensemble of Troy Hambrick and Aveion Cason (and, hell, let's include Emmitt Smith for good measure too) has me a bit scared.
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Fantasy Field General
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Re: Remember to think about the flex lineup issue!
« Reply #10 on: Sep 5th, 2003, 6:21pm » |
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 Now now big fella  , no need to get defensive ... or personal for that matter.  . If sure you have better things to do besides looking at my little ole roster.
I guess I would be defensive too if my favorite team had not made the Super Bowl in about 20-25 years, while NFC East teams like the Redskins (my team), Dallas and NY have each won at least 2 in that time. If I were you I would be having constant nightmares about Art Monk and Emmitt Smith, etc. too! 
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Philosopher King
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Re: Remember to think about the flex lineup issue!
« Reply #11 on: Sep 5th, 2003, 7:41pm » |
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on Sep 5th, 2003, 8:54am, Philly wrote:| Also, we GBRFL2ers may be part of the "Your a Peon League," but we seem to be the only ones interested in league issues. Where are all of these high-and-mighty GBRFLers weighing in with their opinions? |
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With all "due" respect to our eager GBRFL newbies here, to glibly come in here and say that "we seem to be the only ones interested in league issues" is just a bit presumptous.  Have a little respect! Ultimately, the roots of the GBRFL do not lie on the internet and seven of the GBRFL guys seldom visit the forum and five of those seven VERY rarely come around. That does not mean that they don't care. That is FAR from the truth... very far! We dealt with this quite thoroughly at our "Summer Meeting" on August 2nd and most of us are in frequent contact with each other (and them with me) by phone, during which time we discuss ALL kinds of GBRFL "goodies". Hell, this wonderful system we have today is a result of these guys' hammering it out over the past 11 years. Have a little respect! At this point in time, all we have to deal with are fun innovations and very small nuances of the game. The BASICS/FOUNDATIONS have been hammered out with much care and consideration by these guys. Not to mention, as Steve (DD) astutely pointed out, the point of this was to get you guys "feeling (out)", "thinking through", "experiencing" and "grokking" the system, not "rushing to judgement", something I see done in and often ruining way too many on-line leagues. In the GBRFL, we patiently go about "evolving" the rules. Depending on the issue, some decisions are even made the offseason TWO prior to the season they are to be implemented. Here, though, many of the GBRFL2ers are, in effect, giving their "votes" without even having played one game in the GBRFL system, no less a season. "Experience" it first, fellas!  That's what I am ultimately wanting... decisions to be made in a genuinely educated manner. Don't get me wrong! After pondering this particular issue throughout the '02 season with due diligence, I think it would be a great step to take. Now, I want to see what you all, GBRFLers and GBRFL2ers included, think AFTER having pondered it for a full season... as you put in your lineups, watch the games, see the results, get some transactions under your belts, come to understand the system, etc., etc. At this point, we are just to discuss those impressions and share our thoughts BOTH here and "elsewhere" and a vote will be taken in due time... next offseason (as this is an issue that can be decided the offseason immediately prior to the season of its implementation). Again, I am NOT looking to quell you GBRFL2ers' enthusiasm. Just have patience! What I am looking for/forward to is hearing YOU ALL out THROUGHOUT the season and ALL of OUR "coming together" on this. Ohmmmm! Ohmmmm! 
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Re: Remember to think about the flex lineup issue!
« Reply #12 on: Sep 5th, 2003, 11:14pm » |
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on Sep 5th, 2003, 7:41pm, StegRock wrote:
With all "due" respect to our eager GBRFL newbies here, to glibly come in here and say that "we seem to be the only ones interested in league issues" is just a bit presumptous. Have a little respect!... |
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I was just taking a little shot at those who might have dubbed us GBRFL newbies as peons. There was certainly no personal disrespect intended, as I was just having a little fun.
If the offended parties would take the time to more thoroughly read the post instead of reacting too hastily, they might notice the smiley I closed the post with, the one "winking" to indicate sarcasm. Maybe then no feathers would be ruffled and we could continue to participate in a little fun "interleague trash talk" as DB so observantly stated it.
I don't mind being called a peon because I know it was meant in jest. But to say that any retorts to such banter is paramount to disrespect is a bit presumptuous in and of itself.
One of the things I enjoy most about fantasy football is the trash-talking, whether my team is atop the standings or wallowing in the basement. I think many others enjoy this time-honored tradition as well. If any others would like to join in and throw some barbs my way, feel free... I can take it as well as I dish it out. 
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Philosopher King
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Re: Remember to think about the flex lineup issue!
« Reply #14 on: Sep 6th, 2003, 12:37am » |
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Primer, I don't think that is a consideration for quite a few years to come. THAT'S A HUGE CHANGE! I think a reasonable first step would actually be to bring the NFL (GBRFL) and the AFL (GBRFL2) together and perhaps have, JUST FOR FUN, a Super-Duper Bowl between the two top teams of the two leagues. That could provide us with a lot of suspense as I would envision its being a third bonus game the final week of the season between the two top teams, which also would be decided that same week. But, even that I see as being a bit down the road. Let me put it this way... Remember the GBRFL is ultimately a "homegrown" league, made up primarily of guys from school, the fraternity, co-workers, etc. etc.; all the guys from Virginia on up through New Jersey get together every year for our draft and so on. If you yourself play in such a "hometown" league, think of how what you're proposing might sound to them. They'd be like... "What the fuck you doin' with our league, man?" I just don't want this ultimately nice, joyful thing that I am going out of my way to provide to mutate into something it wasn't intended to be, at least not so quickly, and then have my guys, personal friends of mine, complaining to me about what the hell is going on and what the hell I am exposing their cool, little homespun league to, when ultimately, though I informed them about it, I did all of this without ANY of their consultation as initially this was just an independent venture done in connection with "the Gridiron". You kind of followin' whence I am coming...? 
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Re: Remember to think about the flex lineup issue!
« Reply #15 on: Sep 7th, 2003, 9:30am » |
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Jesus!! It never stops coming from Steve "Joan of Arc" Stegeman.
 Blah Blah.. I do this out of the goodness of my heart.
Blah Blah..you guys should worship the ground I walk on.
Blah Blah.. I'm the champion (145 for those of counting).
Just kidding man, (can you feel the love) just thought I'd warm you up first before making a request.
First of all, I could vote either way for the two lineup deal, but first, could you change the lineup submission so if you have a change in your lineup, you don't have to enter the whole friggin thing over again? That would be helpfull. Especially if you have to submit two of them.
Second of all, I like the idea of inter-league play, but that has to come with a two division split within each league with playoffs and one championship game between the leagues. 
Yehaaa!! Go "Team to be named later"
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Why don't you just tell me what you want to see.
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Philosopher King
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Re: Remember to think about the flex lineup issue!
« Reply #16 on: Sep 7th, 2003, 1:29pm » |
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on Sep 7th, 2003, 9:30am, Art Vandalay wrote:| ...could you change the lineup submission so if you have a change in your lineup, you don't have to enter the whole friggin thing over again? That would be helpfull. Especially if you have to submit two of them. |
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Regarding this, I have heard this now twice. Ultimately, if we do the "two-lineup" thing, the page will (have to) eventually undergo a BIG overhaul,... of course. It might (have to) happen in a few stages, though, but it will (have to) happen. HOWEVER, for the time being, to make it so you don't always have to (laboriously ) be typing in your whole lineup (which really isn't that big of a deal actually as we are all contemplating things as we input it, anyway, but...), you can on your own go into your "Internet Options" and in the "Advanced Settings" "turn on", i.e. check-mark, "Use On-line Auto Complete". This way you can double-click on any input field and it will give you everything you have ever input into it in a "drop-down menu" format; also, after you start typing something, it will give you that same drop-down menu with everything you've input with those letters. Actually, way back I was working on doing something with the page so you guys wouldn't have to input everything every time, but, ultimately, realized that was going to be a VERY BIG job, and when I found out about this feature, realized it was even a less necessary step to make. So, give it a try, guys! Thank you!
on Sep 7th, 2003, 9:30am, Art Vandalay wrote:| Blah Blah.. I'm the champion (145 for those of counting). |
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I can see you're still a bit bitter about my beginning the defense of my (THIRD) Championship here today, Fresca.  Not like you were in contention anyway!  Anyway, get used to it, bitch! I'm gonna' make it two in a row with the Priest startin' me off with a 24-yard TD run already! Whores,... don't get me goin'!   
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Re: Remember to think about the flex lineup issue!
« Reply #17 on: Sep 15th, 2003, 12:05pm » |
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on Sep 5th, 2003, 6:21pm, DB wrote:| Now now big fella , no need to get defensive ... or personal for that matter. . If sure you have better things to do besides looking at my little ole roster. |
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If you really want a laugh, check out how Philly did the first week. 
As Steggie knows, I love the idea of a "Super Bowl". However, one of the best arguments against even looking at one this year is that the GBRFL has had time to develop, while us 2ers have just had our stocking draft. After a few years allow me to build a dynasty I will be itching for it.
Going back to the original purpose of this thread, I am curious about what arguments can be (have been) made against the flex lineup other than the administrative problems?
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| « Last Edit: Sep 15th, 2003, 12:08pm by bgsgfan » |
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Re: Remember to think about the flex lineup issue!
« Reply #18 on: Sep 15th, 2003, 1:02pm » |
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Well, the argument is:
Quote:I will go ahead and tell you how I feel. I don't like it. I am always going to put my best team on the field no matter what the match up is. I just think it is creating work where work doesn't need to be created. I like having to live by your decisions. One line up for both games is my personal opinion.
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Additionally, it will change the game alot, arguable for the worse. It may give certain teams an unfair advantage after we have drafted. Also, people may change their draft strategy to include a better back-up defense (for example) or any number of positions. I don't think changes in strategy are necessarily bad, particularly where it may reward depth, but they are changes nevertheless. An argument could be made that things should not be complicated where they shouldn't be and that this type of change is overkill to a system that works.
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Philosopher King
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Re: Remember to think about the flex lineup issue!
« Reply #20 on: Dec 1st, 2003, 7:42pm » |
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My fellow GBRFLers and GBRFL2ers,
I don't know if you guys have been thinking about this for the past 13 weeks or not, but I know that this thread has not really gone the way I had hoped, including on my part. 
In any event, this week this turned out to be a particularly poignant "factor" to me..., not so much in the sense of having the option to adjust your lineup to your competitors', but more so in the sense of being REALLY torn between two players and having the option to hedge your bets. This week I was TOTALLY torn between playing Chris Chambers and Jerry Rice. Having to choose one, I went with Rice (based on what I perceived to be a favorable matchup). Had I had the option this week, I would have played Rice in one game and Chambers in the other (and, actually, it probably would not have mattered in the outcomes as I think I would have played Rice, anyway, in the game I am going to lose and Chambers in the game I think I am going to win). BUT, don't let this parenthetical mitigate the value of my argument. Besides winning and losing, especially in the GBRFL I would like to think, there is an "entertainment"/"amusement" aspect to things that should be considered, i.e., I do not want aspects of the system that are perhaps more about just the sheer enjoyment of the hobby and not about the mundane nuts and bolts of the rules/guidelines to be tacitly ignored. It's "ALL important" in the bigger picture. I would have liked to have had the opportunity to cheer for one more player (moreover, on Thanksgiving day) and enjoy his success as it was happening despite the "after-the-fact" outcome (of losing). This is SURELY a week I would have liked to have had and enjoyed this option.
Food for thought...
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| « Last Edit: Dec 1st, 2003, 9:08pm by Stegfucius » |
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Re: Remember to think about the flex lineup issue!
« Reply #23 on: Dec 1st, 2003, 9:34pm » |
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I would have faced this issue this past weekend as well. At QB I started Manning and needed one more starter. I almost put Fiedler, but was worried about him against the Dallas defense. I went ahead and put David Carr (against a pathetic Falcons defense) in as the #2 QB, figuring that if Carr didn't play, then there would be no harm in having Fiedler as my #3.
With 2 different lineups, I most likely would have submitted different QB lineups for each game.
All that said, I think we should NOT do more than one lineup each week. Fantasy football shouldn't be about hedging your bets. Moreover, unless the scoring system can somehow become more automated, then an extra lineup is just additional work for those who are doing that work. My vote is no.
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Philosopher King
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Re: Remember to think about the flex lineup issue!
« Reply #24 on: Dec 1st, 2003, 9:42pm » |
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Make no mistakes... You still have to live with your decisions. Let's not misconstrue this. Let's say I, (as per my example above) in actuality, was leaning toward Chambers, surely a possibility, but wasn't 100% sure and decided to play Rice in one game. The "result" of that would have been terribly negative for me (and allegedly amusing for Steve). Point being, you still have to live with your decisions and you can still be amused by guys' leaving great players on their bench (which is only a passive amusement, anyway, though). It will still happen. I just look at this as an "option" issue. Do we want to give guys this extra option or not? I see it as allowing us to "make more of our (deep) rosters" than how it currently is.
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