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Topic: Santana Moss - Not a Player you want (Read 594 times) |
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Santana Moss - Not a Player you want
« on: Sep 7th, 2002, 1:22am » |
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Santana Moss, all 5'10" of him is exactly the kind of guy that you don't want to have. He is short to start, and has very short arms given NFL standards. Is a good Althlete, maybe even a Super Althele, but not a super Football Talent. If points were awarded for Verticle Leap, Moss would be one of the top WRs in the game. To me, Sanatana Moss is Desmond Howard. Let him sit on someone else's roster and eat their space until/if he can prove me wrong. Not saying he can't be special, only that he won't be special. Let someon else deal with a guy like that.
Add to that that Vinny, although a top QB, he is about 100 years old, and could take a wrong hit at any time and go down. Behind him, you have unproven Chad Pennington. Now, I run hot and Cold on Pennington about every other day. His claim to fame is that he was Randy Moss's QB at Marshal, and we haven't really seen him play in the NFL. Maybe Randy is the reason he did well in College, maybe Chad is actually good? In College Pennington was a Mechanical passer without a great arm to drive the ball down the field. He always underthrew Randy Moss and was much less acturate with the long ball, but Randy Moss being the Talent he is made up for it. Now, what is Santana Moss's claim to fame? He is a speedster, who can get down the field quickly, beating out the defenders. And Pennington's weakness? He can't get the ball down the field without having the time to plant his feet, and losses acuracy in a hurry on the long ball. Those two things don't add up together very well. Pennington also spent his college career locking onto Randy as his first read, and tipping his hand to soon. In the NFL, that can mean Interception city. There is just no real way to know what the deal really is with Pennington right now?
When looking at Sanatana Moss's long term production it has to be handcuffed or tied very closely to Chad Pennington. Sanatana Moss's greatest abilities (Speed to get deep), are not very good possitives when looking at Pennington's greatest weakness (Executing the long ball). Pennington will be given every opertunity to be the future of the Jets. If someone loses out of the two because they don't mesh, it will be Santana.
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Philosopher King
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Re: Santana Moss - Not a Player you want
« Reply #2 on: Sep 7th, 2002, 12:10pm » |
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Moss, maybe for the short-term, you guys are right, but in the long-run, especially for Deep Keeper and Dynasty Leagues...
You were very tendencious, Mr. Pharmacist, when you mentioned Moss's size and stature. Yes, he is only 5'10", but he weighs 185 lbs. Mr. Marvin Harrison, know him? He is 6'0", 175 lbs. Six of one, half a dozen of the other! You were the one who predicated the introductory part of your argument on size. Anyway, yes, Marvin has had Manning throwing to him and is #1 on his team. But, even with Manning, he did not break out until his "3rd year" when he finally became the #1 go-to guy. Listen, Santana is still only in his 2nd year, in essence his 1st, given his injury last year. Testaverde is still a quality QB; Pennington still looks very hopeful; the Jets offensive unit is getting more and more accustomed to Herm and Hackett's WCO... Do not "discount" Santana for the future. I am not saying he is going to be the next Marvin Harrison, but perhaps the next Johnnie Morton.
Yes, his value is mitigated in turnover leagues, but he still looks like a decent 3rd/4th-year "breakout" prospect to me.
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Re: Santana Moss - Not a Player you want
« Reply #3 on: Sep 7th, 2002, 12:11pm » |
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I'm in a cnnsi.com league and Santana Moss was drafted by a Jets fan in the 3rd round. This was the entire 3rd round (that's me picking at #25  ).
25 Moss, Randy
26 Owens, Terrell
27 Harrison, Marvin
28 Portis, Clinton
29 Boston, David
30 Smith, Rod
31 Brady, Tom
32 Horn, Joe
33 Holt, Torry
34 Moss, Santana
35 Smith, Jimmy
36 Hearst, Garrison
Definitely overvalued. I wouldn't even take Coles in the 3rd round and he'll be light years better than Santana.
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Philosopher King
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Re: Santana Moss - Not a Player you want
« Reply #4 on: Sep 7th, 2002, 12:18pm » |
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on Sep 7th, 2002, 12:11pm, PhantasyPhilly wrote:I'm in a cnnsi.com league and Santana Moss was drafted by a Jets fan in the 3rd round. This was the entire 3rd round (that's me picking at #25 ).
25 Moss, Randy
26 Owens, Terrell
27 Harrison, Marvin
28 Portis, Clinton
29 Boston, David
30 Smith, Rod
31 Brady, Tom
32 Horn, Joe
33 Holt, Torry
34 Moss, Santana
35 Smith, Jimmy
36 Hearst, Garrison
Definitely overvalued. I wouldn't even take Coles in the 3rd round and he'll be light years better than Santana. |
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Now that is fucking absurd! That guy must have been stone-cold fuckin'  ! To be frank with you, that is more a statement about your league than it is about Santana Moss, though!  I wouldn't be making too many of these type posts! 
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Assistant Coach
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Re: Santana Moss - Not a Player you want
« Reply #6 on: Sep 7th, 2002, 4:01pm » |
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on Sep 7th, 2002, 12:11pm, PhantasyPhilly wrote:I'm in a cnnsi.com league and Santana Moss was drafted by a Jets fan in the 3rd round. This was the entire 3rd round (that's me picking at #25 ).
25 Moss, Randy
26 Owens, Terrell
27 Harrison, Marvin
28 Portis, Clinton
29 Boston, David
30 Smith, Rod
31 Brady, Tom
32 Horn, Joe
33 Holt, Torry
34 Moss, Santana
35 Smith, Jimmy
36 Hearst, Garrison
Definitely overvalued. I wouldn't even take Coles in the 3rd round and he'll be light years better than Santana. |
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What the heck are the rules for this league where the Big 3 WRs all fall to the 3rd round?????? ???
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Assistant Coach
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Re: Santana Moss - Not a Player you want
« Reply #7 on: Sep 7th, 2002, 4:28pm » |
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on Sep 7th, 2002, 12:10pm, StegRock wrote:| Listen, Santana is still only in his 2nd year, in essence his 1st, given his injury last year. |
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Alright, then lets call him a 1st year player.
I am a "Trends" guy. If it's happened before, it will happen again. Those that forget history are doomed to repeat it.
In the last 10 years, 42 WRs have been selected in the 1st round. and over half of them (26) scored 2 or less TDs in their first season. Only 5 caught 6 or more TDs, and only 3 of those 42 first round WRs had 1,000 yards. I'd say that's a pretty damning trend for 1st year WRs.
Quote:| Yes, his value is mitigated in turnover leagues, but he still looks like a decent 3rd/4th-year "breakout" prospect to me. |
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Wideouts are a dime a dozen, every year a new super group of wideouts comes out, and people waste roster space grabbing them and sitting on them for two - three years letting them grow and develop, if they even ever do. I myself sat on the next superstar WR of the NFL named Hart Lee Dykes for about 3 years. In the league you play in, does the guy that drafted Terrel Owens still have him? Not in mine, infact, I passed on picking him up when he was available as a free agent. But the guy that Drafted JJ Stokes high in the first round of Rookie draft still has him, still waiting for the guy to develop, unable to get any value out of him. I am sure your league is the similar. It takes too long to develop a WR, let someone else stike that mythical lightening of getting the next Randy Moss.
You aren't going to believe me, and that's fine, work with this for a year or two, and see that I am right before you just follow blindly, there is knowledge to be gained from attempting to hold WRs. I am saying that it is a total waste to hold guys like Santana Moss, Josh Reed or Javon Walker on your Roster unless you are positive that they have won a starting job, and even than, it's still not worth it. Otherwise, you are wasting a Roster spot. Realisticaly, who is going to score more this year? Santana Moss, Josh Reed and Javon Walker or say Dyson and Hilliard? Dyson and Hilliard are going to crush thier numbers, and you can get Dyson and Hilliard for basically the same Draft picks/Trade value. In Dynasty, there are tons of Owners that overlook a guy like Dyson, to go nuts for the Santana Moss's of the game, let them have Moss, while you take Dyson for the same basic cost. Let some other guy sit on Josh Reed for 2-3 years, wasting the roster spot, hoping that the guy pays off, and then in 3 years from now, what is the most likey result? History shows us that the most likely result is that if Moss does well, he will produce about like Hilliard does, and you can have Hilliard right now for maybe even less that it would cost to get Moss. Owners are just nuts chasing WRs. Young WRs are always way too expensive.
How about the guy in your League that got Koren Robinson last year? What did he pay, or what draft selection did he waste? A top 8 pick in a Dynasty Rookie draft, I'm sure of it. Now, what does he get to do for wasting a Top 8 pick on a WR? He sat on him all last year, and if he started him, you got to hope it was on the one single week Robinson scored. This year, the guy will sit on him as well, and maybe get 8 TDs. That would be pretty high with Dilfer in there, much less Hasselbust. So, now we are two years in, and we have 8 TDs, and maybe 4 games that you could have actually started Koren because of the Matchup to show for it. On to year three, Now, let's say that Korin actually makes it in the league. About half of the "Super" WRs from any given year don't even make it. So, 50% of the time, you just got nothing at all to show for wasting a roster spot for two years. But lets say Koren makes it. In year 3, he scores Double digets, say 10 TDs, which is pretty damn good for any WR, and I am sure that if we go by the averages of all incoming WRs, the number I just randomly assigned to Koren are way over the top, but lets use a best case senerio.
What did you waste Roster wise to get those 10 TDs? Atleast two years of a possition where you could have picked up a Dominic Rhodes, or some other player that could actually help you.
I won't even go into what if you had used that top 8 pick on Lamont Jordan or Kevin Barlow instead of Koren Robinson.
That's pretty realistic for what to expect for Koren Robinson. Now, some questions: Koren is/was very highly touted. How many of the last few years WRs are/were more touted than Korin Robinson? Certainly not Santana Moss, Josh Reed, Javon Walker or any but a couple of them. How many of this years WRs are in a better possition team and starting job wise than Koren Robinson? Certainly not Josh Reed or Javon Walker. You want to call Santana Moss a First year player? Fine, then he falls in with this group as well.
Let guys like Santana Moss sit on some other shmoos roster for 2-3 years, let them develop into Kevin Dyson's, which if you look at what their odds are given historical Data of all incoming Rookie WRs, would be pretty damn good, and then trade a Rookie Draft 1st rounder to aquire them after they have developed. You would have just wasted that 1st rounder on a WR that has to sit on your roster for 2-3 years most likely anyway.
When it comes to your Roster configuation needs, you want and need 3 WRs total. 4 at the absolute most. Any more than 4 WRs in a leageue where you start 2 is just foolish over kill. If you start 3 WRs, you want 4 on your roster, 5 at the very most. Just make sure to not have major Bye Week issues, hopefuly, none at all.
Have as Few WRs as humanly possible, and never waste the years it takes to develop your own, trade for them, or pick up hot free agents. To do this, you want established WRs would you know will produce, NEVER WASTE YOU TIME WITH THE SANTANA MOSS'S OF THE LEAGUE!
Use those Roster spots you used to waste on RBs and QBs. Pick up every young possible Future starter you can at QB. They actually will produce right away if given the starting job. So you have 5 starting QBs on your roster, do you think that can help you? Absolutely! Trade 1-2 of them for WRs or upgrades at WR after someone else wasted all the time of sitting on them for a few years.
Take all that extra Roster room, and Pick up the Back ups to every stud RB in the league. For Example, get Robert Holcombe who will be the Starter for Tennesse this year if/when Eddie George has problems.
Ask yourself this question: Look at your team exactly as it stands right now. Now, If Santana Moss were just added to your team, would you ever actually start him?
Would you start him even a single time if he were just magically added to your team tonight? That answer is going to be a resounding no.
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| « Last Edit: Sep 7th, 2002, 4:36pm by Drugrunner » |
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Philosopher King
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Re: Santana Moss - Not a Player you want
« Reply #8 on: Sep 7th, 2002, 8:08pm » |
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Woooooe, Nelly!
That's verbiage!  No, not, doobage, Rasta!
Bottom line... sure, I agree with the mentality behind your "de facto" ranking of the likes of Moss, Walker and Reed behind guys like Hilliard and Dyson (and Robinson, I guess ??? ) for this year, but cooooooome oooooon with the rhetoric!  Okay, FF maxim proposed: if there is a guy out there on the waiver wire who is more valuable NOW than a guy you have on your roster, get him. Right? You should always play fantasy football for this year, dynasty league or otherwise, but "de facto" for turnover leagues! No arguments there! That having been said, if you are in a Deep Keeper or Dynasty League and are not going to be starting your Hilliard's or Dyson's, anyway, and you just like a guy for personal reasons, you have "a feeling" perhaps or he is on your favorite team, go ahead... INDULGE a little... have a little fun with it. Of course, know the, at least, partially, actually foolish nature of what you are doing and the potential consequences if injuries strike your team, BUT also know that the FUN of fantasy football does not just lie in mundane and incessant number-crunching!  This is one of those times where I think about the "geek" of the mid-90's/2000's taking over the late-80's/early-90's "average Joe's" hobby. 
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| « Last Edit: Sep 7th, 2002, 8:39pm by Stegfucius » |
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UFF Primetime Prophet
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Re: Santana Moss - Not a Player you want
« Reply #9 on: Sep 7th, 2002, 8:37pm » |
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on Sep 7th, 2002, 4:01pm, Drugrunner wrote:
What the heck are the rules for this league where the Big 3 WRs all fall to the 3rd round?????? ??? |
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It is an automated draft (not a keeper league) and you draft a position each round. You can alter your priorities... I went RB, QB, WR in the 1st three rounds. I just got lucky and had the first pick in the 3rd round and pulled Randy Moss. In fairness, the guy who took Santana Moss is playing FF for the first time - we had a 10 team league for the last few years, but changed websites this year and needed to pick up 2 new players.
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Re: Santana Moss - Not a Player you want
« Reply #10 on: Sep 7th, 2002, 8:41pm » |
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on Sep 7th, 2002, 12:18pm, StegRock wrote:
To be frank with you, that is more a statement about your league than it is about Santana Moss, though! I wouldn't be making too many of these type posts! |
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Not everyone gets to play in the GBRFL StegRock. Someday we could aspire to your greatness, but for now we'll play in a free online league (each team puts money into the kitty and we have our own payoff structure for the winners).
When you use a free service and are forced to have an automated draft, you need to make some concessions.
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Philosopher King
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Champ - '94, '99, '02, '04
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Re: Santana Moss - Not a Player you want
« Reply #12 on: Sep 7th, 2002, 11:13pm » |
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on Sep 7th, 2002, 10:56pm, Han_Soloist wrote:
Great find, Solo! Truly adds to the informative and useful nature of this site! Don't really agree with the what the schmuck wrote, but it is useful FF info from a well-known and typically reliable source. Thanks for the post! Great job! 
(That's what a stand-up, confident guy writes! And, sarcasm aside, thank you for posting this stuff, but that fact does not mitigate what I expressed to you in my instant/private message to you! That is the bottom line!)
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| « Last Edit: Sep 8th, 2002, 12:27am by Stegfucius » |
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