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Topic: Browns - Let the QB controversy... continue (Read 981 times) |
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Philosopher King
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Browns - Let the QB controversy... continue
« on: Oct 6th, 2003, 4:47pm » |
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Here's how it's reading on "the Gridiron Newsstand":
http://www.ohio.com/mld/ohio/sports/football/nfl/cleveland_browns/694365 9.htm;
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/sports/10654 3270753132.xml.
HOWEVER, those of you "on the Couch", don't get TOO comfortable.  Couch's big game came against the Steelers D  and his other was a miserable loss to Cincinnati. Don't go quickly discounting the Browns arguably more impressive victory, a BIG-time comeback over the 49ers with a beat-up Holcomb at the helm!
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| « Last Edit: Oct 22nd, 2003, 9:14pm by Stegfucius » |
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Philosopher King
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Re: Browns - Let the QB controversy begin
« Reply #4 on: Oct 6th, 2003, 6:51pm » |
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on Oct 6th, 2003, 6:42pm, steelkings wrote:| The point is that Pittsburgh could be the worst team in the NFL. At least right now. I think Butch Davis will remember last year. Holcomb is the starter. |
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I totally agree, hate to say I told you,... KJ. 
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Fantasy Field General
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Re: Browns - Let the QB controversy begin
« Reply #5 on: Oct 6th, 2003, 7:02pm » |
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on Oct 6th, 2003, 6:42pm, steelkings wrote:
The point is that Pittsburgh could be the worst team in the NFL. At least right now. I think Butch Davis will remember last year. Holcomb is the starter. |
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I couldn't disagree more. Yes, that seconday is one of the worst in the NFL, but to even mention Pittsburgh in the same sentence with worst team, is crazy.
There is no LB core like that of Pittsburgh. Porter, Gildon, and Bell are three pro bowlers. Farrior was a 1st round pick, and led the league one year in tackles.
Maddox leads the league in passing yards, and yes, he has thrown a ton of INTs. Though, this is Mularkey's fault not his. The Steelers have NOT run the ball AT ALL this season, and it's not because they can't, they're to busy forcing the passes and getting picked off, so when it's 3rd and 4th quarter, and they're trailing big, they're forced to pass.
The point is though, NOT every QB performs BIG TIME against POOR D's. Pittsburgh is FAR from a poor D, in my opinion. Tim Couch had a good performance every which way you look at it.
Their's a QB controversy a stirrin' and Couch will come up on top, winning.
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Philosopher King
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Re: Browns - Let the QB controversy begin
« Reply #9 on: Oct 6th, 2003, 8:24pm » |
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on Oct 6th, 2003, 5:49pm, DirkDiggler wrote:| How can you bench Couch? He has played well in the last two games. |
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Saying Couch played well against Cincinnati two weeks ago is like saying Doug Johnson played well this past weekend or Vinny Testaverde is playing well this season. Granted not to the degree that Testaverde has been, but Couch ultimately was having a hard time getting the team in the endzone against the lowly Bengals. Then, he accumulated a whole 280 yards in that game, not as much as Johnson granted, mostly in mop-up time when he had to hawk it up on like every play because they were playing catch-up. Look, admittedly, Couch has had ONE really good game, against one of the WORST pass defenses in the league and to deny that Pittsburgh is one of the worst pass defenses is just silly (not that that is what you said, KJ, but it is a "fact" that you deal with in a very, well, equivocal way). I go by what the coach says until otherwise proven. Is it possible that Couch gets the job back? Sure, I started and gave the title to the God damn thread! I just get tired of hearing speculation be stated as fact and then, moreover, the ignorance or equivocation of certain facts. Ultimately, the "truth" of this "right now" lies somewhere in the middle of the two extreme possibilities.
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UFF Primetime Prophet
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Re: Browns - Let the QB controversy begin
« Reply #10 on: Oct 6th, 2003, 10:40pm » |
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on Oct 6th, 2003, 8:24pm, StegRock wrote:
Saying Couch played well against Cincinnati two weeks ago is like saying Doug Johnson played well this past weekend or Vinny Testaverde is playing well this season. Granted not to the degree that Testaverde has been, but Couch ultimately was having a hard time getting the team in the endzone against the lowly Bengals. Then, he accumulated a whole 280 yards in that game, not as much as Johnson granted, mostly in mop-up time when he had to hawk it up on like every play because they were playing catch-up. Look, admittedly, Couch has had ONE really good game, against one of the WORST pass defenses in the league and to deny that Pittsburgh is one of the worst pass defenses is just silly (not that that is what you said, KJ, but it is a "fact" that you deal with in a very, well, equivocal way). I go by what the coach says until otherwise proven. Is it possible that Couch gets the job back? Sure, I started and gave the title to the God damn thread! I just get tired of hearing speculation be stated as fact and then, moreover, the ignorance or equivocation of certain facts. Ultimately, the "truth" of this "right now" lies somewhere in the middle of the two extreme possibilities. |
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Steg, apparently you're getting the Browns' broadcasts to be able to speak so definitively on the Couch-Holcomb issue. I haven't seen any of the games, so I'm going strictly by the stats and Couch has put up some nice ones. I don't care if he's playing catch-up or if he's playing against a weak Steelers' secondary, fantasy numbers are fantasy numbers. The point is it is a situation that should be avoided right now because Couch can't stay on the team's good side and Holcomb is about as fragile as Kurt Warner now.
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Philosopher King
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Re: Browns - Let the QB controversy begin
« Reply #11 on: Oct 6th, 2003, 11:50pm » |
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on Oct 6th, 2003, 10:40pm, Philly wrote:| ...fantasy numbers are fantasy numbers. |
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Yea, if you happened to have Couch in your lineup this week and/or last, but not if you are evaluating him for the long-term, which is the main debate here, and fantasy numbers, as such, not numbers in general, have no effect on an NFL head coach's decision-making process.
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Red Zone Master
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Re: Browns - Let the QB controversy begin
« Reply #12 on: Oct 7th, 2003, 1:33am » |
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This is a very interesting drama to watch. I personally like Couch more, don't know why...True he has better fantasy #s, but that may or may not win football games. Here are their stats:
Couch:
1999 Cleveland Browns 15 14 399 223 55.9 2447 6.13 78 15 13 73.2
2000 Cleveland Browns 7 7 215 137 63.7 1483 6.90 79 7 9 77.3
2001 Cleveland Browns 16 16 454 272 59.9 3040 6.70 78 17 21 73.1
2002 Cleveland Browns 14 14 443 273 61.6 2842 6.42 78 18 18 76.8
2003 Cleveland Browns 2 2 61 43 70.5 488 8.00 71 4 2 102.4
TOTAL 54 53 1572 948 60.3 10300 6.55 79 61 63 75.9
Holcomb:
1997 Indianapolis Colts 5 1 73 45 61.6 454 6.22 41 1 8 44.3
2001 Cleveland Browns 1 0 12 7 58.3 114 9.50 25 1 0 118.1
2002 Cleveland Browns 4 2 106 64 60.4 790 7.45 44 8 4 92.9
2003 Cleveland Browns 3 3 104 62 59.6 551 5.30 27 3 5 63.4
TOTAL 13 6 295 178 60.3 1909 6.47 44 13 17 70.0
After looking at there stats (last and this yr) they are close onmay things. I would pikc Couch as a better long term prospect.
I think CLE wants to see Holcomb to see what he has/IS. I think they know what the have in Couch, and wanted to see if they will part with at yrs end, go with Holcomb, or go get another guy all together. Couch has played 5 yrs of his 6 YR deal.
I think Couch has more skills and upside. Maybe the players don't like him, who knows. I don't think Davis knows. Either way...fantasy wise i would arther stay away from it all if possible, so that i don't want to have any investment in it all at. Couch will have a better career though. Maybe Holcomb is the next Feidler/Brad/Gannon??? or the next Blake/Dilfer/Greise. You guys can find out and i will stay away from it.
I do have Couch in CBFL though. That is the only league i have him in backing up Favre.
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Gridiron Great
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Re: Browns - Let the QB controversy... continue
« Reply #17 on: Oct 26th, 2003, 12:02am » |
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Didja notice that the Browns are missing THREE starting offensive linemen this week? Starting C Jeff Faine (knee), starting OT Barry Stokes (ankle), and starting G Shaun O'Hara (knee) are not expected to play!
Even if one Cleveland QB gets a chance to play the whole game....
PLUS, didja notice that the Pats are winning games because of their D? A very good D.
I'd stay away from Browns players this week, except maybe Northcutt. He's playing a "young nickel corner" so may do some damage. (Guru Report, good premium to pick up.)  Also, maybe Kevin Johnson, because Ty Law is questionable and may be out.
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| « Last Edit: Oct 26th, 2003, 12:15am by Callie » |
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“If life gives you lemons make orange juice. Let the rest of the world figure out how you did it.”
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Philosopher King
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Re: Browns - Let the QB controversy... continue
« Reply #24 on: Dec 8th, 2003, 7:43pm » |
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ESPN just announced that though Holcomb will start tonight's game against the Rams, Couch will be available. Here is more info from the Browns' official site available on "the Gridiron Newsstand":
http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news_room/news/arts/2425.0.html.
It'll be interesting to see how tonight's game unfolds. The Rams  may be "the greatest show on turf", but they tend to be "  smurfs  on solid 'earth'", especially in the extreme cold. 
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| « Last Edit: Dec 8th, 2003, 7:45pm by Stegfucius » |
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