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Philosopher King
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Champ - '94, '99, '02, '04
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Would somebody just give this guy a good, old-fashioned spanking?  Take the diaper off and show that you are the "real" man you claim to be, dude!
On Sunday NFL Countdown today, they discussed whether or not you'd want to have Moss on your team. It seemed like the general consensus was a reluctant yes. I am not an NFL player or coach or anything, but I would NOT want him on my team, at least not the current Randy Moss (quite frankly speaking, I wouldn't want to procure him on my fantasy team even though fantasy football does not factor in "attitude" in the remotest; I just like winning with guys I (for the right reasons) like: it makes winning (like this year's GBRFL Championship  ) that much more satisfying... I actually wrote a whole article on this general topic that exists in the old GBRFL fantasy articles section: http://www.fantasyfootballer.com/gbrfl/WithWhomIdGoToWar.htm).
First off, he is a quitter. I don't want to hear about the injury.  Today he quit when it started to seem like the game was not going to go the Vikings way. He admits to "playing when he wants", i.e., logically and evidently this must mean, for one, when he is the primary read. This fact in and of itself is a tip-off of sorts to defenses. Moreover, though, he doesn't understand that when he takes off a play, as it seems he has been today, it affects the whole play. He becomes useless as a decoy and less of a later option if the play called breaks down. He doesn't stretch the field for his other teammates; he doesn't get the secondary out of its zone (a residual effect that was VERY on-display today); he doesn't need to be covered, which frees up a defenseman (or two as Moss often requires double-teaming) to double-team (or triple-team) someone else (also visible today). Besides this actual on-the-field affect, this "not giving it all on plays called for others" (because, as stated above, he surely gives it a good go on plays called for himself; if not, then this guy is WORSE than I believe) must too have a horrible psychological effect on his teammates. Because he is SO obviously emotionally, psychologically and mentally immature himself, it becomes the proverbial "elephant  in the room" that everybody ignores.
This guy is a cancer. He needs done for him the "tough love" favor Buddy Ryan and the Eagles did for Cris Carter back in the day when they cut him; Carter subsequently got his life together and became a productive NFL receiver AS WE ALL KNOW... for the Vikings ironically, a solid NFL guy and ambassador for the game, and always indicated sincere gratitude to Ryan and the Eagles for what they had done for him.
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Champ - '06, '21, '24, '25
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Re: Randy Moss
« Reply #1 on: Jan 18th, 2005, 1:43pm » |
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Do you think this is limited to Moss, though? What about TO? He was more of a disturbance last year than Moss was. Maybe he tries when he plays (whereas Moss just seems listless), I don't know, but his off-the-field antics make any sort of team spirit and unity impossible. He sets himself at odds with his qb (and offensive coordinator, right?) because he doesn't get the ball enough, even going so far as to call out his qb on his . . . sexuality? Maybe I missed something, but I don't remember Moss's public statements going this far, though clearly his "gridiron ennui" more directly affects the games themselves.
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Re: Randy Moss
« Reply #2 on: Jan 18th, 2005, 2:13pm » |
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I think Steg is on the mark in his assessment of Randy Moss, I wouldn't want him on my NFL team, I don't care what remarkable natural skills he has. There is no excuse for his contemptuous habit of playing 'when he feels like it'. His responsibility to his team is probably even greater because of his superstar status and natural gifts. The Vikings would do well to replace Tice with a coach that will straighten Moss out, or unload their enormous financial burden, because with Moss's current level of committment, he will be worthless by the time he turns 30.
Legends, you bring up a great point about Terrell Owens, but for all his petulance and immaturity, at least he has a work ethic, accepts his role as a difference maker and doesn't typically undermine his team's effort in the face of adversity. I think perhaps the closest parallel to Randy Moss might be Koren Robinson, a guy with tremendous physical skills, but can't seem to get his head together.
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Re: Randy Moss
« Reply #3 on: Jan 18th, 2005, 2:28pm » |
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I agree with everything you say about Moss, Steg. The guy clearly quit in the playoff game this past weekend. The fake FG play where he had absolutely no clue what was going on was laughable (as an Eagles fan). The fact that he left the field with time left on the clock is inexplicable. When asked if Mike Tice is the right coach for the team, Moss couldn't throw support to his coach. The guy, for all intents, is a terrible teammate.
Now, the comparison to TO is off-base. TO doesn't take plays off. Even if he isn't the primary receiver, he'll run his route like he is and then block for the other guy. He works twice as hard as everyone else in the off-season and in practice. TO's issue is that he wants the ball every down. (Is that really a bad thing? I'd want that kind of confidence in my players if I was a coach.) TO's presence on the Eagles has not caused ANY stir this year. Sure, there were the comments about Jeff Garcia and the "desperate" MNF promo and the Ray-Ray diss. But none of that caused the Eagles to question him as a teammate. Not even when (despite his leading the NFL in receiving yards and TDs at the time) he complained that he wasn't getting the ball enough. Coach Reid responded to TO's complaint by saying he agreed with TO. As for his tirade at Off. Coord. Greg Knapp while he was with the Niners? No one seems to be talking about times where Steve Young or Dan Marino had shouting matches with their coaches... It happens. The main difference between TO and Randy Moss is that TO is a me-first guy who understands and respects the "team" concept. Randy Moss is a me-first guy who always puts himself before the team.
I don't even know if giving Randy Moss the Cris Carter treatment program would help. Cris Carter had issues, but he never had an ego the size of Randy's.
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Re: Randy Moss
« Reply #4 on: Jan 18th, 2005, 3:22pm » |
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Yes, the comparison betwen TO and Randy fails at a certain point, particularly regarding work ethic (your point about TO's work ethic is helpful: I couldn't recall any time TO quit in a game, but I left it open because I wasn't sure myself). But at the broader level the comparison applies: both players, I think, are liabilities to their team.
Yeah, TO has done well this year with little controversy in Philly. But you can't judge a guy by his behavior when things are going well. When things weren't going well in SF, that was when TO got into trouble. And that was when he revealed his true character. So let's wait and see what happens when things DON'T go well in Philly.
In addition, there haven't always been such exacerbated problems with Moss. Sure, he's always been a little disinterested, but it hasn't been this bad all along, so let's get some distance from the present and look at it from a broader point of view: over both of their careers, these guys have had ups and downs, the downs being when their selfish characters reveal themselves and cause stress for their teams. And it does seem that these guys are in a different category than Marino or Young. I don't recall either Marino or Young belittling their players publicly out of petty selfishness. Maybe they did, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't recall it. Marino and Young may have lost their cool in the heat of the game, but Moss and TO don't do the things they do because they get caught up in the heat of the game: these things happen off-field, during the week, publicly, etc.
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| « Last Edit: Jan 18th, 2005, 3:24pm by Travistotle » |
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Gridiron Great
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Randy Moss
« Reply #5 on: Jan 18th, 2005, 4:52pm » |
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Well, golly BEE wilikers!
I'm not sure I can really add anything significant here as what I have already read has been quite indepth and quality laced.
But since I have some time off I would like to add my opinion on Moss.
His MOON episode - no big deal.
His walking off the field - is a big deal.
His handing a TD-ball to a child in the stands - a big deal and in a positive way IMO. He has some great characteristical portions about himself and really, the VIKES either need to find a way to help Randy EMPHASIZE those parts within or perhaps find a trade that suits their team and take the cap penalty for now.
BEEing compared to Chris Carter who had a DRUG problem at the time of his departure (I BEElieve I am correct about this) is not accurate in that sense.
Randy is NOT a leader. He needs a leader around him (another Chris Carter) to keep him in check. Tice isn't the guy and neither is C-Pep. It seems that C-Pep is just finding his own way as it is (great season).
Could a move to another team benefit both him and the Vikes?
Sure BUT, Minny better get a boat load of players and or draft picks in return. Talent of Moss's stature doesn't come easy and I don't quite remember the Vikes BEEing so explosive without him in the lineup.
Case in point - you just don't throw talent like his away to the wind because the guy lacks leadership.
There are a BUNCH of teams that are just crying for wide receivers in the NFL so Moss's talent isn't found/ drafted/ picked in free agency or recruited and developed so easily that throwing away a TOP notch WR can BEE easily overcome just in order to teach ONE player a lesson (and perhaps in lue of your team's future success of going backwards rather than forward?)
Minny's team is so close to breaking further into the post season competition and unless they can get a bunch of players that can perhaps help the defense get better; - another CB to side with Winfield; a couple of LBs that can tackle; a WR to pair with Burleson .........................
(they aren't easy to find - ala Buffalo, Miami, the Jets -S.Moss ain't the one; Seattle & the Ravens just to name a few teams that are - and in buffalo's case - WERE - starving for WR talent)
.............................and a consistent RB and yes, a more cerebral coach perhaps, I wouldn't necessarily just throw Moss off my team.
Hey, the guy just doesn't seem to have the confidence in Tice and quite frankly, I don't neceassirly blame him. Though that doesn't excuse any of his immature antics - extreme measures such as trading him away for notta - like Frisco did with T.O. - isn't the "football" right thing to do for Minny and their fans. SF was imploding. Minny is on verge of doing just the opposite and like it or not, an opinion on "what to do with Moss" should in part - in a BIG way - bear the responsibility of the team's success.
Hive-Five Babe-Bee, I am done! 
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Re: Randy Moss
« Reply #6 on: Jan 18th, 2005, 5:20pm » |
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I was reading Peter King earlier this week and he made a good suggestion. It was surprising because I don't really care for Peter King and find him to be idiotic most days.
Anyway, he suggested a trade between the Vikes and the Ravens. Moss to the Ravens for someone like Adalius Thomas and the Ravens 1st round pick. This actually has some merit. Adalius Thomas would be a nice addition on the D-line of the Vikes and they could use the first round pick for another WR to complement Nate Burleson (who came into his own this season) -- maybe someone like Mike Williams (though he won't fall that far) or Chris Henry (who should be available).
Randy's lack of interest would not play in Baltimore. They run a tight ship on the Inner Harbor and his teammates would probably be able to inspire him to give more of an effort than he currently is giving.
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Just to address KKS's points. I agree that the mooning should be a non-issue. I also agree that Randy does a lot of good in the charitable sense. All in all, he really isn't a bad guy off the field either (in comparison to many). His whole problem stems from his lack of motivation and his attitude.
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To gridiron legends... I agree that Marino and Young never took their on-field "issues" anywhere near the media. They had blow-ups on the sidelines in the heat of battle and, in that sense, was VERY similar to TO's tirade towards Greg Knapp. Keep in mind that TO never dissed Knapp publically and Knapp, when asked about TO earlier this season, didn't have a bad thing to say about him and basically said that it wasn't an issue. Also, I agree that TO has been fine in a good situation in Philly. It could be different if Philly was playing as poorly as the Niners, but I certainly don't plan on seeing that happen. 
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Gridiron Great
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Re: Randy Moss
« Reply #7 on: Jan 19th, 2005, 8:38am » |
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I still BEElieve, that if I were a fan of Minny; and actually, I kind of am a fan BEEing that I play basketball with C-Pep here in orlando; well I don't really play ball with him - in fact, I don't even play basketball at all BUT, my father DOES play ball with C-Pep during the offseason so, I have grown to BEEcome somewhat of a Viking fan and most definitely a C-Pep fan (UCF KNIGHTS babe-bee!!!!);............................ and as a kinda-sorta fan of Minny I still harbor the strategy that replacing the talents of MOSS would BEE much more of a duanting task than finding someone who could MENTOR him - bring out his work ethic, if you will - his "good-football" side.
There are a surplus of players and or motivators in the world but, there aren't a surplus of Randy Moss-like-WRs.
To me its the responsibility of the Minnesota Vikings organization to make that happen - and if they can't - then, in my mind they have failed.
I mean, why trade him to the Ravens - a team that runs a tighter ship and as a result try and replace his talents rather than the doing the opposite - that BEEing - RUN A TIGHTER SHIP yourselves (Minny).
Seems that would BEE the most logical choice and the easiest choice and perhaps, the most successful choice.
Trade away your all-star WR and you admit as an organization that you aren't able to run a tighter ship - if indeed thats what we are talking about here.
Hive-Five Babe-Bee!
By the way, C-Pep in person, is a great guy!
A quick note on T.O. - I have already proclaimed my opinion about him on another thread - I like the guy as a football player and think he is a great addition to the NFL.
Just my  ,
Peace out - love america and the Dolphins!
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*BEE BYE BOE BUM!!; I SMELL THE STENCH OF SOME INSANE PLAYER SCUM.
*2004 CHUMP-ION of Insane World!!!!!
*Domination of the DUKE BEEgins right here!
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Gridiron Great
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Re: Randy Moss
« Reply #8 on: Jan 20th, 2005, 9:26am » |
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rumors include Moss going to arizona for 3 players :
Bert Berry-DE; Adrian Wilson-SS; Darnell Dockett-DT.
This trade would BEE difficult to BEElieve since, Denny has 2 outstanding, potential wide-outs already (but no QB?? to throw them to) and Minny would have to do something with all-pro Corey Chavous who is already playing the strong safety spot (although Adrian would BEE a serious upgrade IMO).
Also to mention, Minny's huge need on defense is LB, which this deal doesn't include.
BEEsides, Arizona just acquired Bert in FA & Dockett in last year's draft. This would surely kill their defense as well which is just getting started and BEEginning to improve.
I don't buy it.
However, this IS the type of deal I was referring to in respect to getting a bunch of defensive players in return for Moss.
I don't see the Vikings moving Moss unless they can get something like this.
Is Burleson ready to BEEcome the #1 WR in Minny?
After C-Pep's year in which he is improving in strides, what would something like THIS do to Minny's - arguably - best offensive player (Sargent C-Pepper!!)?
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| « Last Edit: Jan 20th, 2005, 9:29am by KillerKingSting » |
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*BEE BYE BOE BUM!!; I SMELL THE STENCH OF SOME INSANE PLAYER SCUM.
*2004 CHUMP-ION of Insane World!!!!!
*Domination of the DUKE BEEgins right here!
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Re: Randy Moss
« Reply #9 on: Jan 20th, 2005, 10:10am » |
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on Jan 20th, 2005, 9:26am, KillerKingSting wrote:| Minny would have to do something with all-pro Corey Chavous who is already playing the strong safety spot (although Adrian would BEE a serious upgrade IMO). |
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Really? I actually think that Chavous is the better of the two.
Quote:Also to mention, Minny's huge need on defense is LB, which this deal doesn't include.
BEEsides, Arizona just acquired Bert in FA & Dockett in last year's draft. This would surely kill their defense as well which is just getting started and BEEginning to improve.
I don't buy it. |
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I agree with you here. I can't see AZ giving up that much defense for a position where they have plenty of depth.
Quote:| Is Burleson ready to BEEcome the #1 WR in Minny? |
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Burleson isn't a #1. He is a #2 and is still growing into the position and his stats are a bit inflated because of the presence of Moss on the other side of the field. If the Vikes move Moss, then getting a legit #1 WR would have to be a priority.
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