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Topic: 1st "Huddle" Rankings/Mock Draft of '07 - Comments (Read 5043 times) |
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Philosopher King
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Re: 1st "Huddle" Rankings/Mock Draft of '07 - Comm
« Reply #50 on: Jun 22nd, 2007, 3:54pm » |
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I must admit that I'm with C-dub here. I'm not too keen on that Peterson pick, either.
 | I DIGRESS...
Hows about a little useful and fun (once you think about it) English lesson? What's the difference in meaning and expression between the following (this is not very difficult, but the mistake is OFTEN made; in fact, though, its mundanity is what makes it interesting, to me at least)?
"I'm not too keen on that Peterson pick, either." or "I'm not too keen on that Peterson pick, too."
AND
"I'm not too keen on that Peterson pick either." or "I'm not too keen on that Peterson pick too."
Have at it, boyz!!!  |
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| « Last Edit: Jun 22nd, 2007, 3:55pm by Stegfucius » |
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Philosopher King
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Re: 1st "Huddle" Rankings/Mock Draft of '07 - Comm
« Reply #56 on: Jun 22nd, 2007, 10:07pm » |
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on Jun 22nd, 2007, 9:42pm, cwhams wrote:Too as in also
Two as in #2
or to, which is as it should be |
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If this is a response to my "English Lesson" question, I am almost certain it is not right... Explain... Or, "retake"... 
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Re: 1st "Huddle" Rankings/Mock Draft of '07 - Comm
« Reply #57 on: Jun 22nd, 2007, 11:18pm » |
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on Jun 22nd, 2007, 3:54pm, StegRock wrote:I must admit that I'm with C-dub here. I'm not too keen on that Peterson pick, either.
| I DIGRESS...
Hows about a little useful and fun (once you think about it) English lesson? What's the difference in meaning and expression between the following (this is not very difficult, but the mistake is OFTEN made; in fact, though, its mundanity is what makes it interesting, to me at least)?
"I'm not too keen on that Peterson pick, either." or "I'm not too keen on that Peterson pick, too."
AND
"I'm not too keen on that Peterson pick either." or "I'm not too keen on that Peterson pick too."
Have at it, boyz!!! |
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The preposition "too" has a number of meanings:
Prior to "keen" the word "too" means overly.
At the end of the sentence the word "too" means also.
The pronoun "either" refers to one of a number...in this case Steg & C-dubs.  That is a short stab.
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Philosopher King
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Re: 1st "Huddle" Rankings/Mock Draft of '07 - Comm
« Reply #58 on: Jun 22nd, 2007, 11:42pm » |
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Much better stab, C-dub... 
First, a general note, don't get lost in the grammar (that's not to say not to know it; just don't get "stuck" in it, which dictionary categories can cause one to do)...
Okay,... piece-by-piece...
on Jun 22nd, 2007, 11:18pm, cwhams wrote:| The preposition "too" has a number of meanings: |
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Rethink that one, C-dub [even just in terms of what you (correctly) go on to write]!
Quote:Prior to "keen" the word "too" means overly.
At the end of the sentence the word "too" means also. |
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YES!  BUT, that's not what's at issue here. (Regarding what I said above, what kind of word is "too" functioning as here? A preposition??? Think!!!)
Quote:| The pronoun "either" refers to one of a number...in this case Steg & C-dubs. |
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YES! You are on the right track (with the exception of your grammatical categorization of the word "either"),... BUT you are only halfway there... Think it through; bring it home, man!!!
Here's a hint... Consider the difference in meaning and expression between the following two sentences...
"I don't like that pick too."
AND
"I too don't like that pick."
Which one of those is "I don't like that pick, too." (technically supposed to be/more so) equivalent to???
Then, consider the pattern in terms of "either". It's ALL ABOUT the comma!!!
And, then, based on that, what does the "other" sentence mean/express???
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Philosopher King
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Re: 1st "Huddle" Rankings/Mock Draft of '07 - Comm
« Reply #60 on: Jun 23rd, 2007, 5:45pm » |
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on Jun 22nd, 2007, 11:42pm, StegRock wrote:| ...don't get lost in the grammar (that's not to say not to know it; just don't get "stuck" in it, which dictionary categories can cause one to do)... |
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Quote:
...
Oh, no... We've regressed,... and I am partly at fault. Honestly, I was a little bit too exuberant  about how close you were before. You were on the right track, but only about a quarter or third of the way there, not halfway. And, then, I go on putting the cart before the horse and go explaining about the "comma" and the "pattern". Moreover, I go about it bass-ackwards, intimating, at least, how the "pattern" and the placement of the "comma" can help you figure out the "second" meaning at play here. In doing so, I've committed one of the greatest sins a  philosopher  can commit. I am (what we philosophers call) begging the question... because, in this case, knowing the "patterns" assumes knowing the "meanings", not the other way around. (I digress... See how even rather simple things can become knotty!) In my defense, I did this because I thought you were farther along than you were. I thought I just needed to give you a nudge, and I got sloppy. The fact is, you were still missing a huge part of the puzzle,... the "other" meaning. When you said that "either" (and "too") indicated "Steg and C-dubs", that was only half-right (and that's only half of the equation here and, thus, why I should have said something like you are a quarter of the way there, not halfway).
Don't worry about the grammar books (right now). Grammar books will tell you that using extra commas is ultimately up to the discretion of the writer. But, in any event, the "comma" in writing and the "pause" and/or "intonation" in speaking are THE KEY to the differentiation of the TWO meanings at play here, which, C-dub, you have yet to hit on. Until you do, you are not going to "get it". You won't be in a position to. Once you get the other meaning, it'll be like...  (and  ) and, I'm fairly sure, it'll all fall into place. If/When you (can) think through (which, as opposed to memorization, is the key to really understanding and internalizing learnt material) what's going on here, you will come to better appreciate the grammatical mechanics behind it all, what is at issue here in terms of punctuation, and how it all makes sense (beyond being a set of rules). I digress... Think of it in terms of these three (Stegemanian ) levels of genuine learning (anything, not just grammar): at the most basic level, one knows and calls upon rules; at the next level, one knows why the rules are rules and how and how well they function in terms of accomplishing what they are supposed to; at the highest level, one sees the developmental process and evolution of the rules and becomes a creator of rules and shaper of rules structures. Be self-critical and consider the level at which you are relating to and processing circumstances being presented to you in life. Always seek to take it to the next level!
In any event, there's nothing "personal" about it. Seriously, don't go there either, Dubs. Neither the grammar books nor your personal opinion is going to help you here. Toe the middle! Think it through! Forget about commas for the time being! Focus on the respective meanings of the TWO example sentences I gave you in the hint above, neither of which contains a comma! What are the TWO meanings at play? THEN, go from there. Answer the question that immediately follows the two example sentences. THEN, jump to the last question and answer it. You should be able to take it that far. I think it'll all fall into place in your head at that point. If not, WE'll pick it back up from there!
Trust me, friend... I've been "there" with all kinds of this stuff. Once I thought it through and "got it", it was like a revelation. Until then, it was just like trivia knowledge that I didn't get and (therefore) wanted to buck (with what I "personally" thought). Always seek to "get it"!
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Re: 1st "Huddle" Rankings/Mock Draft of '07 - Comm
« Reply #65 on: Jun 23rd, 2007, 11:02pm » |
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Dear Steg,
For the love of God and all that is Holy under heaven, I just don't get the english lesson.  
Give me spread sheets, give me multi-million $ budgets, give me  , give me your poor, down trotten. These things I understand, wellllll alright, maybe I don't uderstand the women.
I was thinking maybe a few of the other boys would have jumped in and helped the ole Dubs out of a jam, but nooooooooah, silence from the stands. 
The answer is right there, like mushroom hunting, you just got to see it.
Sincerely,
The Dubber 
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MordecaiCourage
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Re: 1st "Huddle" Rankings/Mock Draft of '07 - Comm
« Reply #66 on: Jun 23rd, 2007, 11:18pm » |
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on Jun 23rd, 2007, 11:02pm, cwhams wrote:
I was thinking maybe a few of the other boys would have jumped in and helped the ole Dubs out of a jam, but nooooooooah, silence from the stands.
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Dear Dubs...it is summertime! School has been out for nearly a month now. I did not even think that hard during school, much less in the summer!! Summertime, in my day, was when a kid could download what he knew and just be a vegetable...play some baseball, throw some rocks, do some camping, catch some fish, ride a skateboard, etc. etc. Yep, I learned back in the 70's not to engage my brain after June 1st!!
By the way Dubs...and others who have not already done so......since I've recollected a bit from my past, it has reminded me of " the sidelines" and "GTKYG" series. How 'bout you mosey on down there and let us regular guys who know you by your posts, get to know who you are for real.
http://www.fantasyfootballer.com/cgi-bin/theGridiron/YaBB.cgi?board=58;a ction=display;num=1059537803
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| « Last Edit: Jun 23rd, 2007, 11:32pm by MordecaiCourage » |
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Philosopher King
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Re: 1st "Huddle" Rankings/Mock Draft of '07 - Comm
« Reply #67 on: Jun 24th, 2007, 12:05am » |
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Since you asked, MC,... don't much like the Jordan pick. I don't see it getting much better for that backfield (for most of) this upcoming season nor for Jordan in particular with Rhodes, Fargas and, the aforeUNmentioned, Michael Bush perhaps in the mix. Honestly, I'm not keen on my LenDale White pick (NO COMMA) either. But, at least for him, I see the situation as being set up perfectly for him to succeed. It's just a matter of whether he can overcome himself. That said, where we are at in this Huddle, neither Jordan nor White are "bad" picks. I'd probably rather have neither of them on my fantasy team, however, all things equal. I definitely would not want to be relying on either of them, and around we are here, depending on the size and starting lineup requirements of one's league, we're still picking up guys that may very well have to be relied on. So,... 
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Re: 1st "Huddle" Rankings/Mock Draft of '07 - Comm
« Reply #68 on: Jun 24th, 2007, 12:25am » |
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OH,... and, by the way, I am a bit disappointed that you guys are giving up on learning, whether its summertime or not, and figuring this out. I'm VERY Confucian  about this. Go pick up a copy of the Analects and give 'er a read and see why/how so...
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MordecaiCourage
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Re: 1st "Huddle" Rankings/Mock Draft of '07 - Comm
« Reply #70 on: Jun 24th, 2007, 10:32pm » |
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on Jun 24th, 2007, 12:25am, StegRock wrote:| OH,... and, by the way, I am a bit disappointed that you guys are giving up on learning, whether its summertime or not, and figuring this out. I'm VERY Confucian about this. Go pick up a copy of the Analects and give 'er a read and see why/how so... |
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I am disappointed that you are a bit disappointed that a hard working  like myself would rather kick back on my days off and catch some  than read a copy of the Analects, which by the way would probably end up causing me to catch those said even quicker!!
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Re: 1st "Huddle" Rankings/Mock Draft of '07 - Comm
« Reply #71 on: Jun 25th, 2007, 9:16am » |
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on Jun 22nd, 2007, 3:54pm, StegRock wrote:Hows about a little useful and fun (once you think about it) English lesson? What's the difference in meaning and expression between the following (this is not very difficult, but the mistake is OFTEN made; in fact, though, its mundanity is what makes it interesting, to me at least)?
"I'm not too keen on that Peterson pick, either." or "I'm not too keen on that Peterson pick, too."
AND
"I'm not too keen on that Peterson pick either." or "I'm not too keen on that Peterson pick too."
Have at it, boyz!!! |
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Well, since I was spending my weekend away from the computer (I'm in front of a monitor too much during the week) I didn't see this question until just now.
I do not profess to be a grammarian, but I think I can see the difference between using a comma there and not using a comma.
When you use the comma (e.g., I'm not too keen on that AP pick, either/too.), it directs that agreement with the opinion of another (in this case unstated) individual. When the comma is elided, it personalizes the comment and implicitly indicates agreement with your own previous comments.
Sound good?
(And there's no chance I'm picking up any Confucius for light summer reading.)
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Philosopher King
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Re: 1st "Huddle" Rankings/Mock Draft of '07 - Comm
« Reply #73 on: Jun 26th, 2007, 5:37pm » |
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on Jun 25th, 2007, 9:16am, Philly wrote:| When you use the comma (e.g., I'm not too keen on that AP pick, either/too.), it directs that agreement with the opinion of another (in this case unstated) individual. When the comma is elided, it personalizes the comment and implicitly indicates agreement with your own previous comments. |
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I'm almost certain you've got it, Philster! The first is surely right. 
Dubs doesn't like that Peterson pick. -> I don't like that Peterson pick, too. =/or I too don't like the Peterson pick.
The latter two sentences are equivalent in meaning, viz., they express my (subsequent) agreement with Dubs.
But, could you tease the second part (made bold in the quote above) out? Actually, it would almost definitely be easiest to show what you mean/what it means without the comma with an example like I just did above for the first part.
on Jun 24th, 2007, 10:32pm, MordecaiCourage wrote:| I am disappointed that you are a bit disappointed that a hard working like myself would rather kick back on my days off and catch some than read a copy of the Analects, which by the way would probably end up causing me to catch those said even quicker!! |
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 (Capitalism... Arrrrrgh!)
on Jun 25th, 2007, 9:16am, Philly wrote:| (And there's no chance I'm picking up any Confucius for light summer reading.) |
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I pose just one (perhaps best taken to be rhetorical) question... to you, MC. What if I said the same thing as regards the Bible? Now, I'm not saying there is not a reasonable comeback (albeit perhaps pretentious-ish), and I did notice that you included a "winky" smiley () with your post. I'm just saying this to convey how your (and Jeff's) comments cause me to feel... Anyway,... it's "'all' a joke",... I know...
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We shall see boys 
OK, Michael Vick at #66 just one 6 away from 666, just could not help myself. 
Brett Favre at #84...that's a steal by any standard. 
, Steve, but Confucius is in your wheelhouse, not mine. I have almost no interest in reading/exploring philosophy or religious precepts. It wasn't meant as a slight to you and I'm not sure why you're taking it that way. We all have different interests...